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    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    bhv, How are you feeling? I hope you have not developed an infection, too. I hope your husband has been able to return to day care so you can get some peace and quiet.
    • CommentAuthorbhv
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Thanks for asking Myrtle. I haven't known what to say or ask. Was just going to start a new thread when you asked.

    I am better. Have an inhaler. This Spring the allergies are almost as bad as they were when I lived in Minnesota. Doc said the pollens in our region have dramatically changed in the last two.decades. He recommended locally produced honey. Said it is better than allergy shots. I am trying that. Not going to try shots again. Went into anaphylactic shock last time I tried that! If a doctor ever tells you to stick around for 15 minutes after a shot --- stay put! You don't want to be more than two steps from a doctor if you have a reaction.

    Took hb to day.care Tues. He was so agitated they asked me to give him the medication in the morning before coming. I did that Wed morning and left the medication with them to give more at lunch. Problem was he woke up Wed morning telling me he was going to kill me. I was hoping all the friendly,, smiling women paying attention to him might calm him down. No such luck. They called at 10:30 to ask if I gave him the med. When I said he was threatening when he got up, the nurse said she'd give him another pill and have the social worker call me. Social worker called and wanted to set up a safety plan for me and wanted me to take him to an emergency room for geriatric psych eval. I have an appointment at the VA geriatric clinic on 16 April (Mon) so didn't see reason to go to ER.

    He was still agitated and wouldn't eat lunch and they said he had personal hygiene issues too. He was wearing the same clothes as yesterday. They were shocked, I tell you, shocked. His body odor was bad. Not poop though. I can't smell it. I made him shower with soap and everything on Monday. She said "perhaps he didn't put on deodorant this morning" Ya think? He has no idea how to do any of that. So I guess I will have to risk bodily harm by making him put on a clean shirt and deodorant in the morning.

    I picked him up at noon instead of 2 pm on Wed and said I wouldn't bring him on Thurs. It was a ridiculous goat rope (military expression similar to "herding cats") when I went to get him. Two nurses and a social worker came out to make sure I was calm enough because, dontcha know he will pick up on my stress and the situation could escalate. They explained how geriatric er visits go and said they might 5140 him (or something like that) and get geriatric eval inpatient for 72 hours or something. They wanted to give me a hug and I couldn't EVEN think about being touched by anyone! I stepped back and warned them off and just said, slowly and distinctly, that my husband needed to come and get in my car now.

    One of the nurses rescues dogs and her husband has dementia and comes there with a service dog. He had.an appointment so she got my hb to dog sit for awhile. He calmed right down and sat petting the dog. The dog lookes exactly like our little dog except for color. So they started telling me about Paws for Patriots suggesting I get him a service dog. I do not want anither thing to take care of. I already was.overwhelmed trying to take care of hb and a dog. Not going to go back to doing that.

    Finally I just stopped listening to them and told hb to follow me and left. He wouldnt eat lunch there, and I didn't bother making him lunch here. I put on his stupid western shows and worked out in the yard. He kept coming after me with raised fists all day. I just kept avoiding til he went away for a little while. I did make him some dinner and he ate it. I fail to see what would motivate me to prepare food for a person who has been threatening me all.day.
    • CommentAuthorbhv
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    -2

    Got in to see his doctor Thurs morning. After five unsuccessful tries,got him to swallow the pills just before we left. Had a good conversation about how to handle all the pills, made some changes and decided to give him the haldol twice a day for now and could increase the dose if need to. Got some understandable guidelines. He was going to call Adult Protective Services because he is a.mandatory reporter. I asked what they could do? Basically he can't change his behavior. I have been trying to modify my behavior and his with some success, but that's not working any more so we need to control it with medication. If that doesn't work, then he'd have to go to Memory Care. It was nice, though that he said threatening me IS an emergency.

    I called the office on Friday to say things had calmed down. I actually felt safer than I had for weeks. Thought we might have had to build up the Haldol. I think he will hold off on calling APS. (It is ironic because my father spent a career working in Child and Adult Protective Services) I have the appointment with the VA on Monday and am going to ask to be assigned to that clinic for management. I am not sure Haldol is the right medication so at minimum need a geriatric psych eval from them. It isworth a try.

    I am not sure if I am going to try to bring him to day care on Tues. He seems a bit more calm since I am giving him the haldol twice a day. But he is still.quite.threatening. but more easily redirected.

    Elizabeth keeps saying it is time for placement. I just wish there was some way to know how long this will last. We could probably afford 5 - 10 years. Not sure about 20.

    How am I feeling?
    •  
      CommentAuthormary75*
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    "Elizabeth keeps saying it is time for placement. I just wish there was some way to know how long this will last. We could probably afford 5 - 10 years. Not sure about 20."
    I agree with Elizabeth. IMHO, you can't afford not to place him as soon as possible. Without belittling your financial concerns, you'd be surprised how things can work out.
  1.  
    Bhv--Bonnie--I can't put this any more clearly.

    It Is Time For Placement.

    It looks to me that everybody realizes this except you. Please, please try to work with the team--they sound like they know what they are doing. And of course there are financial concerns--but as Mary said above, there are ways and means. Your survival is more important than leading a typical, middle-class lifestyle. A safe life on a shoestring is better than being dead with money in the bank.

    You are going to get yourself or the both of you hurt, or worse. Please work with your team and take some meaningful steps toward a sensible, safe plan for both of you.
    • CommentAuthorWolf
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    First off, bhv, you're in charge and no one can push you and certainly no one here is trying to do anything but be in your court.

    Secondly, I would try to consider how much longer I can do this continuously - one year? two? three? Could you go five more years?

    Third. Try and form an assessment of how this has moved. You have some years of history including the last period you would assess him as normal. It's unlikely that the pace will slow going forward. Try to project that five and ten years into the future.

    Some other points are that placement in this situation will very likely have tax deductions. That might be material when you look at the net cost. More importantly there is quality of life. Only you can decide how that weighs.

    I'm a little worried about you. I'm reading how resistive you are to suggestions of relief or being touched but when you have him home you speak disapprovingly of feeding him. It is hard to keep in mind the mental strain you are certainly under, and while I'm not questioning your judgement - I'm certain you are under serious duress.

    Consider another option. Consider placing him for one or two years with a set date after that when you will re-assess everything. That's hard to do but would give you some time where you're not under threat of violence and are not just attending him - but have some real time to assimilate some of this and live for a while without the 24/7 duress.

    The story you told seemed to be of the staff trying to intervene somewhat to help you where they feel you need a break and your reaction seemed to be 'get away from me'. That's how Stockholm Syndrome manifests itself. I'm not qualified to make that assessment but I am seeing the strain on you.

    Imagine sleeping where he's taken care of but not a threat to you and what a year or two break would do to at least reduce the constant threat/work stress. Look at your finances and realize that if you could do ten then two is probably worth it. If after a few months it's not, plan how you will handle it and take him out.

    I hope you can find a solution. Like the rest, I care about you and hope for the best for you.
    •  
      CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Bonnie - yes for your own safety seriously look into placement. At some later date down the road, even a few years, if he has calmed you can bring him home. There are others here who have done that. But, if you are like me, once my husband is out I won't want him back. Keep yourself safe my friend.

    Put the stuff back in the bay where the water had leaked into. Tried to get rid of stuff - nails, tubes of this and that, etc that will never use - managed to get rid of about 1/3. I sent him to the dumpster with the throw away stuff - when I went to check on him he was going through it to keep most of it. I picked it up and threw it all in much to his dislike.
    • CommentAuthorbhv
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Well they couldn't tolerate him for a couple hours at day care, so why would I think a memory care place would tolerate him 24/7???
    Seems to me either way we have to find a med that will calm the aggressiveness. I have an appointment on Monday. Then the issue is I am physically capable of caring for him, so am I willing to pay $5,000 to $9,000 per month to have someone else do it?
    Yeah, Stockholm Syndrome might be apt. But it was more like these people said they would care for him for a few hours to give me a break. But they reneged (sp?)on that agreement and they thought a hug would make me feel better about taking him home??? I don't think so chicas. And he only missed one lunch. He won't starve.

    The year or two idea is a good idea. I had been toying with 6 months if I can find a place to contemplate that. But need to find a drug and appropriate dose first.
  2.  
    bvh (Bonnie), I am reading your post about the last week or so in your life dealing with your husband. I am very concerned for your safety as well. I had a similar situation with my husband in that he was becoming increasingly agitated and angry and while he didn't do anything he certainly came across as though he was going to and it scared me and it scared my son. I'm not very big, only 5'5" an my husband was 6'2" and strong. The stress at home became too much for my son and I had to place him. I told myself I could probably have handled more but truth be told I was getting to my wits end as well. I can tell you my personal experience with placing my husband was the best decision I made. I was not capable or trained or had access to medication as quickly as the ALF had. They were much better equipped and trained to deal with an Alzheimer's patient with increasingly angry and agitated moods. I won't lie, he was not happy I put him there, but it was the best thing for him. Thinking of him and what kind of care he needed that I was just not able to provide was how I came to make that decision. Even after he had been there for a couple months he had a violent episode. He managed to drag a leather love seat down the hall about 100 feet and drag it over to the railing of the second floor and pitch it over the side and it went crashing to the floor. The staff made sure the other residents were safely in their rooms but were unable to get to him to calm him down. Ultimately they had to call 911 and they came and restrained him and took him to the ER where he was given a large dose of drugs. And although he was on different drugs before the episode, he required much, much more to get him calmed down. Luckily they did not admit him and he was able to go back with his prescription treatment plan which kept him under control. The Dr and nurses there watched him closely and worked with him and eventually started to wean him off the stronger drugs. The point of this story is that if that had happened at home, I don't know what would have happened and if I would have made it to a phone to call 911. When they get to that state of behavior, they need professional help and care 24/7. That's just not something we can do. I understand the financial component, and I think Wolf gave you several good options to consider. We all care about you here. If you don't take care of you, who will be there to make sure he is taken care of? It's the hardest decision you will make but if you keep the safety of both you and him in mind, then you will come to realize that placement really is the right answer. I hope this helps and know that we are all thinking of you and worried about you. ((hugs))
    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    bvh, Have you looked into your state's veteran's homes? I'm talking about a state-run home, not a VA hospital. My state operates two residential medical facilities for vets. They offer excellent care. There is no means test and they are not free, but the cost is much lower than private nursing homes. The one near us had an11-month waiting list, but I signed my husband up well in advance. (If I had not put him on the waiting list that far in advance, he could have gone into a private nursing home until a spot in the vet's home opened up.) He was there for 3 years. One of our members from Hawaii placed her husband in a veteran's home run by that state. This option might not be possible for you, but it might be worth looking into.
    • CommentAuthorWolf
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Ok bhv. But you can still help yourself.

    You can put that $60,000 plus up as the reason and you can take the pressure off yourself by doing it right now with no commitment to next month or next year. You can look for better meds as you already are. You can develop the idea of what you're doing and why more clearly in your own mind. A well paid job in a sh*tty situation. You can try and be more aware of your own stress levels and wear down, and monitor that a bit more formally.

    The day care people tend to be out of their depth where the pros in the dedicated facitilies do it every day. What you need is a locked up facility that does respite you can book for a week or three once in a while. If that is far away consider a month or two and book a hotel/motel for yourself for a night.

    "Alzheimer's patient respite available in the Des Moines area" I would try typing something like that in except not Des Moines. You can also phone the nursing homes and ask for leads finding somewhere that offers shorter term respite for Alzheimer's patients.

    You can also fish for pros that hire out. A non active nurse or nursing home worker with references and preferably a black belt or wrestling experience. If you can find someone who can handle it to come in certain days, that can help take the strain off.

    I'm sorry you are facing all this and that your husband has this horrible disease.
    • CommentAuthorlindyloo*
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Bhv, Bonnie. In a life that was mine twenty plus years before I met my partner, a part of my life that I have never shared on this website, I was in a position to feel much like you do now. Don’t touch me or I will either explode in wrath or will fall apart in a million unrepairable pieces.

    The question I was able to ask, in this fragile emotional state, is “What do I I need? What do I need this very minute to survive?” The answer, for me, once I asked myself, was “I need this to end now. To survive I need this to end now.” Nothing else will work. That week, in the presence of a trained social worker, in a safe emotional place, I asked my then then husband for a separation. Nothing permanent at that point. Couldn’t for the life of me have made a permanent decision in the state I was in. Just a separation. Just a separation. A time to find out who I was. because I was not that person any more.

    If you wish to talk I can post my phone number. No pressure there, Bonnie. We are all offering the lifelines that we think may help.
    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    lindylou is right when she says we are all offering the lifelines we think will help. Not all of them will be the right ones for you, but one or more of them might be.
    • CommentAuthorbhv
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Yes. To all of you. Yes. I spent this morning doing something just for me. Told him to go watch his program.and, amazingly, he did and left me alone. I have some paperwork and computer work I can do while sitting in this room with him. That annoys me, but keeps him calm. No threats yet. I am giving the haldol.about every 4 hours (2-3 times per day).
    Monday will get him showered with soap and clean clothes. VA geriatric clinic Monday afternoon. They have a lot of services and I may explore all of them. They can coordinate the state homes, various forms of respite care, evaluations, medication management, day care.... on and on. If we have to wait for appointment for medication review I will have his doc call in a prescription for the haldol to get me through that.
    There is a new Memory Care unit near his sister that currently has no waiting. I will call them on Tues and see about respite for one month or perhaps more. I want to go see my brothers on the east coast. May take a road trip.
    Lindylou, I.was.channeling you when I woke up this morning and asked myself "What do I need this very minute to survive?" Thanks for offer of phone number. Not right now. I don't want to be touched and I don't want to talk.

    I think the Geriatric Clinic is going to have a way to find a treatment plan, both short and long term.
  3.  
    Bonnie, as one engineer to another, it sounds to me like you're insisting on treating this as an engineering problem -- if I put him in an institution all they'll do is find a drug scheme to manage him, and as an engineer I should be able to do that myself, far more economically and without having to make a big decision now with possible longer term implications. Problem solving is what we're trained to do, but don't you think it possible that you may be too emotionally involved in this problem to find the best solution? Sure, I can see some logic in your cost/benefits analysis of trying to continue to manage this situation yourself, but a big difference in your trying to manage his behavior via finding the right drug scheme versus having an institution do it is in the "time constant". Considered as a control system problem,There's a great deal of unavoidable "lag" in your system in having to depend on scheduling doctors appointments to get prescriptions for new drugs to try, then new appointments if this drug doesn't work as hoped or to fine tune dosages, while being sensitive to side effects, etc. Those things can almost certainly be done much more quickly and efficiently by trained professionals in an institution -- and with far less stress on you, and probably less stress on your spouse as well. It's obvious that everyone on the board is concerned about you and wants the best outcome for you, as I do also.
    • CommentAuthorbhv
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Fascinating you remember I am an engineer/programmer. I am hoping the geriatric clinic recommends just what you are saying. We'll see. Seems like the best place to start.
    • CommentAuthorpaulc
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    In my wife's case, her medications help for so long and then need to be adjusted. The last case has been challenging. Reduced meds a few months ago (she was too sedated in the facility's opinion) and she has done much better. But as time went on she became manic. So we are in a medication adjustment phase where meds are tried and then quickly ended when the results re disappointing. We can do this much better where she lives than if she was at home. We are trying to figure out what is best for my wife's quality of life, her becoming too aware has resulted in her being very frustrated because she thinks she can things that she is not capable of doing. We are now wondering if she would be happier with some sedation.

    I agree that his meds may need to be adjust to deal with his aggression before he can be placed (permanently or temporarily) but a good facility can help with process. Unfortunately most can't. But medication adjust is a continual process and the right place should be able to help.
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    bhv, have you looked out of state for care. your state sounds high priced.
    • CommentAuthorpaulc
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    BHV's costs sound quite reasonable to me. I pay more than she states for my wife's care. I would love to be paying only $5,000/month for her care (her low end estimate).
    • CommentAuthorWolf
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

    Ice storm here. Been going on for two days now. Everything is covered in ice and ice pellets so now of course it's snowing. Accidents everywhere. Even the paper didn't get delivered this morning and I don't think the mail people should try today either. I could barely get my front door open and my back door is frozen solid.

    It was funny this morning watching the peanuts I threw out of my second story window go sliding across the backyard and down into the neighbours yard. The blue jays were landing like sea planes skidding past the peanut and gingerly hopping back.

    I'm always stocked now. I went through a period this last year where I started hoarding supplies because it felt good and had to learn that there are limits both in dating and in space. I'm that guy in the supermarket though that's always peering at the dating. I haven't emptied a jar of peanut butter since I've been on my own which is over six years now.

    On the other hand, one of my most heart warming experiences after this has been to open up to cooking. I went through a tough stretch there where it was really hard to give a damn and somehow I've been able to care again. I'll take every little thing I can get.

    Can anyone identify who said that quote above?
    •  
      CommentAuthormary75*
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    Wimpy?
    • CommentAuthorWolf
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    Wimpy is correct. Unfortunately there is no prize. It's like knowing who Mr Ed is. A horse of course. Or a princess phone. Or a party line. How about this one then?

    "That's enough. That's enough. Of the touch, touch, touch."
    •  
      CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    I took the big step and made an appointment to tour Vintage Apartments - a 62+ complex. I would love a 2 bedroom but can only afford a 1 - if that. I figure the cost will be twice what living in the RV would be but the trade-offs might be worth it. I will only move into an apartment if I have my own w/d. These apartments have stacking w/d - smaller than normal size but I would just have to do smaller loads. Before moving I need to verify how much Medicaid will allow me to keep. From my research it says most of all our income. Only when he dies will it go down but then I could qualify for subsidized.

    Another rainy windy day but at least it is not freezing rain and ice like Wolf is enduring!
    • CommentAuthorNicky
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    We're also having the ice storm. What Wolf got yesterday, we got last night & today, but where Wolf lives, it's worst than us. My son & his family live near Wolf, but in a different city, & they got hit bad. My driveway is a skating rink & there's an incline which makes it worse. I put salt this morning, but it didn't really help much. And the wind is ridiculous.... We have a forest behind our house & branches were being torn off. One of my neighbours had a tree (from the forest) come down near his back yard. We had about 30 power interruptions this morning, but we're lucky at least we had power. Some parts of the city did not.
  4.  
    Charlotte, let us know what happens with the apartments. I remember you were seriously considering one a while back, but decided not to.

    We had sleet and rain last night--woke up to snow--then it warmed up a little and rained cats and dogs. Then that stopped, but everything is wet and muddy outside. The nights are going to continue to be cold.
    •  
      CommentAuthormary75*
    • CommentTime2 days ago edited
     
    Wolf, part of lyrics sung by Little Mix, from the song"Touch."
    • CommentAuthorWolf
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    I can see how you got there. But I was referring to Lilly Tomlin on Rowan & Martins Laugh-in where she did a smarmy telephone switchboard operator and one of her bits was being a cheerleader doing various cheers. That was one of them. I can't find a clip of it. I can only find her doing Ernestine the operator "One ringy dingy. Two ringy dingys."

    Most of the ice is off the trees now. My Honey Locust is safe even though it was encased in ice. In the last ice storm I lost a third of that tree. It was all luck. The first day of the storm was mostly ice pellets with wind. The second day was freezing rain that was so close to zero degrees, it never took hold on the branches and that day was windy too. Last night it was freezing rain all night and every twig was loaded with ice - but no wind today. It got up slightly above zero and much of the ice melted off. We have some snow in the forecast the next two days. The Robins aren't happy about any of this.
    • CommentAuthorbjones
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    ttt
    • CommentAuthorbjones
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    ttt
    • CommentAuthorbjones
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    ttt
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    ttt
    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTime2 days ago edited
     
    Hi Rodstar, Although it was helpful in the past, I suggest that it no longer helps to bring miscellaneous threads to the top, since this practice is exactly what the latest spammer has started to do.

    Also, by bringing these threads to the top, we are burying the few legitimate threads. For example, my post this morning on the thread called, "Spam Alerts for Joan," was buried in the threads you brought to the top.
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43
    • CommentTime2 days ago edited
     
    the you suggest we wait for Joan? it seems to still take days and we can loose someone new. But, i just want the site to keep going.
    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    Rodstar, I want it to keep going, too, but it may not be possible without a moderator. We can do what we can but sometimes our efforts backfire, as they did this morning. And then the interloper came in and moved more threads to the top. Maybe moving stuff to the top is the only way to deal with the problem. Or others may have some suggestions.

    As for new embers, frankly, with the site being so disorganized, I don't know why someone new would stay here.
  5.  
    I am worried about the new members. They seem to be missing in action. Well, fingers and toes crossed.
    • CommentAuthorlindyloo*
    • CommentTime11 hours ago
     
    bhv, Bonnie. You have been in my thoughts and prayers a lot these past few days. How are you?
    •  
      CommentAuthormary75*
    • CommentTime4 hours ago edited
     
    lindyloo, my email is now deleted
    I have the email addressses of a few of this site's members. If you would care to email me yours, I will pass it on to a member who has asked for it.
    •  
      CommentAuthormary75*
    • CommentTime3 hours ago
     
    Thanks, lindyloo. Have emailed you.
    • CommentAuthorbhv
    • CommentTime12 minutes ago
     
    I am ok. Changed medication dose and times. He has generally been more cooperative and happier. He was able to do three days at Day Care this week. He even participated in a few.activities. I stayed close to home in case they called. Had a good talk with one of the nurses.
    Last Monday had a.two hour class at the VA Geriatric Clinic. They explained a bunch of their services and who is eligible. A bunch are for any vet. The psychologist gave me her card. The Caregiver can call her and the social worker and also a hot line for support and suggestions. Unfortunately the schedulers had gone home and she said she'd call me the next morning with appointment with geriatric psychiatrist. The doctors were on leave for the class, but they explained what they do. The Geriatric Pharmacist spoke too. We can make an appointment with her for advice managing medications. She is very smart, knowledgeable and interesting. Gave a handout re essential oils that I haven't read yet. They gave us a book for Caregivers and the 4th edition of The 36 Hour Day.
    Tuesday morning the psychologist called me with appointment for psychiatrist. She called just like she said she would. And then she asked about me. And we talked for quite some time. She had some good suggestions for me and talked about how best to work with the VA. I am quite impressed so far.
    Hb sat next to me the whole time and didn't say anything even though they were talking about Dementia and Alzheimers. He didn't seem to understand any of it, but was content to sit next to me.
    He's sleeping more. Probably cause of the increased haldol, but also all the activity and constant pacing at Day care.
    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTime3 minutes ago
     
    Wow. That sounds like a very good service. I hope it works well enough to allow you to get the situation under control and give you some breathing room. It's hard to plan for the long term when you're constantly managing crises.

    Thanks so much for letting us know what happened.