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    • CommentAuthorbhv*
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2017 edited
     
    I may be vying with Divvi for "Poop Queen" title.

    I will get to the point eventually. First the latest.episode. I have eliminated all dairy. Some say he should be able to tolerate some butter, but doesn't seem to apply here. Could milk allergy rather than lactose intolerance. I have also eliminated most salad dressings - they seem to have sour cream or something. Catalina.seems to be ok. For some reason he no longer likes Italian. I haven't bought onions or mushrooms in months. Staying away from peppers for the most part.

    Yesterday decided to try taking him on an adventure since we hadn't had a bad pooping experience in nearly a month. Tuesday spent all.day getting us both showered shaved and teeth brushed. Packed a backpack with clean clothes, towels, washcloths, gloves. Went to the Living Desert Park - zoo and botanical garden.

    Pass bathrooms and ask each.time, but no, he doesn't want to go in there. Three.feet past one bathroom I turn around and he is peeing on a trash can. Thankfully the little mothers with their little kids were nit right next to us.

    About an hour later, just around the corner from the bathroom, again, no didn't need to go, I turn around and he has his pants down around his knees and is scooping poop out of his undies and tossing it into the bushes and wiping his hand on the brick wall. I grab a towel to clean his hand but he uses that ti zip up and do his belt and gets mad that I keep trying to get him to let me clean his hand. NOOOOO he needs to studiously smear the poop on as many surfaces as inhumanly possible.

    I get him in a family restroom. It is huge. Changing table nice counter around the sink. Of course he won't let me help get the undies off without smearing the poop all over the fricking seat, floor. Then he starts mushing it in the toilet. I get him to the sink to wash his hands and he has NO clue how to do that. I have to grab his hand and hold under the soap and then the water. Leading, of course, to a physical attack. Somehow I get him to remove the shoes, pants, and undies and we dance around for about 15 minutes while I try to get the poop off his bum, legs and balls. He keeps picking up the poopy clothes getting poop on his hands and legs again and then throws the poopy clothes all around the room and picks up the clean clothes smearing them with poop as well. Everytime I get one piece if clothing out of his hands he turns and picks up something else. Then starts pushing me around and trying to hit me
    While I try to keep calm and get I'm to let me clean him up. Finally get him dressed in the cleanest of what is left.

    No where to sit so I send him outside to out on his shoes. Two minutes and he is back with no shoes. I find them on an employees cart. Took them back inside and locked myself in there to clean this huge restroom with one washcloth. Packed everything up - yes I had plastic bags to wrap the disgusting clothes in. Find him sitting in an employee cart and he won't get out. Finally he gets up but starts unloading their cart. YET ANOTHER FIGHT.

    So today I look at some Depends for men. Didn't buy them. Not sure I can get him to wear that. Although read some old threads tonight and MaryinPA says he can pull the "apparatus" out the leg hole even with the depends. That's his normal mode anyway, so they might work. I'm going to take a look at the Tena brand too.

    Right now he is not urinary incontinent. Thanks to Flomax. Just doesn't seem to know the poop is coming and if he does he misses the toilet. So finally my question... let's say I get him to wear the Depends underwear type. Will.they really hold all this poop? It is sometimes a bit soft, but not liquidy. How do I get them off without him smearing it all over the bathroom? And, wait for it, WHAT, exactly do I do with the poop filled Depends?

    (I don't have kids and my brothers were before disposable diapers.)
    • CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2017
     
    Maybe Divvi will come along and other who are well experienced in this area. Personally, as hard as it is, I would do no more trips. Next time I would not bother cleaning the bathroom - find someone to tell that is needs cleaned, that you are really sorry.
    • CommentAuthorLindylou*
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2017
     
    Aww bhv, It gets hard and then it gets harder than it ever should get. One suggestion from my experience. It seems that you have gotten to the point where it is no longer useful to ask if he needs to use the bathroom. What I started doing was saying "It is time to use the bathroom." Every two hours like clockwork. Any resistance either at home or when we were out I would explain the approach that British royalty use: Use the bathroom at hand because you never know when another will be accessible. I would say lets both use the bathroom while we are at it. Good bye to all privacy. Sigh.

    Never had to worry about the "equipment" but I double lined the disposable underwear which had a chance of containing the mess and keeping clothes cleaner. Also, my partner never noticed when we switched from cloth to disposable. Maybe your husband won't either. I used to put the used disposable in a plastic grocery bag, knot it, and throw it in the trash.

    My heart is going out to you.
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43*
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2017
     
    wow, I dont look forwardd to this!!!!!!!
  1.  
    A few thoughts: First of all, I agree with Charlotte that it is time to stop taking him out. He is just not capable physically or mentally of doing these kinds of outings--is not getting anything beneficial out of it-- and the person he used to be would probably be horrified at what happened. Plus it is ruining the outing for you, bhv, and is really not fair to the general public, especially in terms of the soiled public areas and restrooms. It's time to leave him home, perhaps with a sitter or aide, and enjoy these outings by yourself. You need them and you deserve them...and unfortunately, the time for doing them together with your husband is past. Alzheimers has taken away his capability.

    In regards to incontinent care, I pretty much echo what Lindylou said. Have a lot of supplies on hand--more than you think you'll need. Gloves, plastic grocery bags, lots of paper towels, toilet paper, disposable washcloths and wet wipes. Keep his washable linens, like his towels, separate from yours. Maybe use two different colors, one for you and one for him. Wipes permeated with Clorox for bathroom surfaces clean-up. Room deodorizer spray. A big bottle of cheap hand lotion for softening dried poop so you can get it off. Alcohol squares or a bottle of alcohol and cotton balls to wipe under your nose when the smell is too bad. A box of masks to put on over your alcohol-wiped nostrils if the smell is really bad. (And if you're paying aides, they will appreciate this stuff.) Anything and everything disposable just put in the plastic grocery bags--double-bag if needed--and throw into your outside rubbish bins. I would try different brands of "Depends" until you find the one that works best for him. And of course, getting him to wear the products is a whole different story. I had to buy the more expensive "Depends" that looked and felt more like real underwear. You can check your local supermarket/pharmacy/medical supply house, and research online to see what is out there. Throw out or hide his "regular" underwear, so there is simply nothing but incontinent underwear in his dresser drawers. And make sure his slacks are easy on easy off--I put my husband into fleecy sweatpants, which were warm and comfortable, and the easiest thing I could find to get on and off him--even though he wouldn't have been caught dead in them before Alzheimers.

    Now I'll get a little graphic...sorry. So you smell that he has pooped. Take him into the bathroom and stand him in front of the toilet, facing you. Pull his pants and Depends down, and sit him on the toilet. Slip shoes off (recommend easy on, easy off shoes--that's for a different thread). Slide the pants and soiled Depends off, put Depends in your plastic grocery bag, knot it closed and set it aside. Stand him up and clean him up with your supplies--toss soiled stuff in another grocery bag, knot and set aside. (You don't want him trying to grab the soiled things and handle them--that's why I'm saying to knot them immediately.) Also make sure toilet seat is clean, and sit him back down. Slide on a new pair of Depends, with liner in them if you do line them, (what to use for liner is another subject--many ideas about that). Slide on pants if they are clean. If not, have a fresh pair ready to put on him. (Sometimes the poop stays in the Depends...sometimes unfortunately depending on consistency it may slide out onto pants.) Put shoes back on feet. (Obviously if socks got soiled, you're going to change them, too.) Stand him up, and pull pants and Depends up all the way. Done.
  2.  
    Very thorough instructions, elizabeth -- the one thing I might add is that some folks have recommended a dab of Vicks Vaporub under your nose to help deal with the poop odor during cleanup.
    • CommentAuthorbhv*
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2017
     
    THANK YOU! Sorry to the ones who don't have this problem yet, but I had to be graphic to get the answers I needed. I was hoping elizabeth would be here because, elizabeth, you were right there in all divvi threads on this subject and I knew you would be able to tell me the steps that were not in there. The "graphic" answer was just.what I was looking for. Had no idea about the hand lotion to soften it. I need to fire up my laptop to print this one out.

    Lindylou, I will start doing what you.said. I had.come to that conclusion but hadn't framed the way to say it yet.

    Charlotte, you were there on the divvi threads too. Still here. Me too. That's the stuff that scared me back when I first found this site and made me afraid to say anything, but I knew the info was there for when I would need it. Recently you.said you give your DH something every day.else the bathroom is a mess. I forget what you called it. I think I know what.caused this episode -perhaps a teensy bit of onion in a teensy bit of salsa, so no more of that. But if there is something gentlenthat.keeps the poop a little more solid, that might help.

    Again, thank you for sharing your hard won experience!!!
    • CommentAuthorbhv*
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2017
     
    The smell is bad but perhaps it is my experience working in a hospital when I was young. That isn't what really gets.to me. It is the way he spreads it around. If there is one little tiny pebble of poop that dropped on the floor he will somehow step on it and smear it.
  3.  
    When I first had hired caretakers trying to change him they would just rip the depends down the side so they didn't have to slide all the way down his legs. Later he went into the diaper type but they are hard to get on if he is standing.
  4.  
    As I recall (it's been 8 years), the diaper my DW was wearing at the end, after she was bed bound, had Velcro closures on the sides. I can see how it would be nearly impossible for a caregiver to place that on a standing person without some help. You'd need more hands to hold the diaper in place while using two hands to manage the Velcro closures. Putting on my engineering hat, however, I can imagine that if the patient were already fitted with an elastic belt around his/her waist (something like the elastic waistband from a pair of Jockey shorts), then the front and then the back of the diaper might be tucked under the elastic band to hold things in place until the Velcro closures could be managed. The belt would be worn full time, which shouldn't prove uncomfortable.
    • CommentAuthorbhv*
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2017
     
    That's a pretty good idea for later Gourdchipper. I am gonna have to try the depends that appear to be undies. I mean it took me about 6 mnths.to get him to accept the new undies I bought because his old ones all fell apart. That was pretty funny actually. He insisted on wearing them even though there was a hole in the front and the "apparatus" stuck out.
    Tonight he had yet another episode smeared all over the.bathroom. But he didn't fight me trying to get him cleaned up. Apparently he can learn or get used to some things.
    I am demoralized though. The reason I took him out was that it seemed at every turn people were telling me not to leave him in front of the tv, you have to keep his brain active, you have to keep him occupied. A friend was telling me how her friend's mother has dementia and her friend and 6 other siblings have a color coded schedule on the frig with activities for mom. Isn't that wonderful, she asked me, they have a goal to take mom out 3 times a week to somewhere interesting. Yep, isn't that wonderful. For the last 12-18 months I have been working on the property to get everything fixed and looking good enough to sell if I decide to go away. So a few weeks ago I tried taking him to the golf course. He hit exactly one golf ball and wanted to go home. Then I took him to the Air Museum. He was ok there. Liked seeing the C123 he flew in Viet Nam. But was ready to go pretty quick. By lunch time he didn't remember the trip. So I tried the Living Desert thing as something I have wanted to do. But elizabeth is right. Every time I pointed out something he said he saw it, but he wasn't close enough to see. He said he wasn't interested in that place but wanted to be with me.

    He kept refusing to walk in the neighborhood with me, but now he wants to be with me all the time. Perhaps I should try a walk in the morning before he usually does all the pooping. Problem with that is he walks so slowly now it drives me mad. No matter how slowly I walk he seems to lag about 10 steps behind

    I will get started on finding in home care and respite care.
    • CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2017
     
    Yes, I have read about those people who plan activities for their loved one but I am not that type. I have no desire to do that. If he wants to sit in front of the TV all day, then I have no problem. I have tried to find activities for him to do like coloring or art projects but he has no interest. I know his mom used to keep his dad busy cutting pictures out of coloring books. Yes, my husband would be happy to go, go, go all the time, but I don't. May sound selfish to a lot of people, but I just can't get excited spending money (or even free) in doing things he will have no memory of. Some call it making good memories with them but it would not be a pleasant memory for me. I would just be sad because he has no memory of what we did.

    It also drives me buggy him walking behind me instead of in front. I guess I fear I will turn around and he will be gone. As annoying as they are, that is something good about shopping carts that have 'flat' tires!

    As for the diapers, some start by letting them put their regular underwear over the diapers but I would go with getting rid of all the regular so he has no option. Of course, I am not there yet.
  5.  
    Who are these people who are saying keep their brains active, keep them occupied, don't leave them sitting in front of the TV? These are obviously people who don't know zip about Alzheimers and related dementias. You aren't going to "keep their brain active" if their brain is shutting down with Alzheimers. And "keeping them occupied" means them doing something repetitive and soothing, something they enjoy that gives them security--most likely at home--maybe it is the quintessential folding clothes, or maybe it is something like just sitting comfortably in front of the TV in their lazy chair for hours. Taking an Alzheimers patient out to new activities and experiences is just going to confuse them and make them anxious. It will probably be exhausting for them, as they try to cope with the new environment and try to look like they are "with it" even though they aren't. And it sure is tiring for the caregiver. Past a certain point, it just isn't worth it--it' not good for the patient or the caregiver either.
  6.  
    Men's foaming shave cream in the can makes cleanup easier and cuts down on the odor.
    • CommentAuthorbhv*
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2017
     
    That's a good idea Bluedaze. And I recognize your name from the old threads I have read. So grateful this board keeps all that for searching so we can benefit from your hard won experience in the trenches. And that you are still willing to help us.
    Elizabeth it seems to be everywhere I look. Magazine articles, ads on facebook, even the care pathways classes I took. I stopped reading most of it because I am more like Charlotte. I really don't care.a.lot of the time. He has turned into my worst nightmare of a husband - that's why I never expected to get married. But I did get married. So sometimes I convince myself that I am not being a good enough wife and I look for some way to do better. It was a worthwhile experiment I guess. Just like in the scientific method sometimes the failures lead to the best solution.
  7.  
    bhv we called ourselves dementia widows long before our spouses died. Many of us did not refer to our spouses as DH (dear husband).
    • CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2017
     
    I think my MIL was one who tried to keep my FIL busy. Well, she died of a massive heart attack 9 years before him. I say she literally killed herself trying to keep him entertained. The ones I read the most saying they have activities planned all day are ones taking care of mom or dad, but I have read spouses stories of them doing that.

    NOT ME!
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43*
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2017
     
    I am with yoy on that Charlotte, we have a thousend crocheted watch caps to attest to that. She uses a loom. I keep her in yarn. when she stops it will be a bad omen. She is slowing down.
  8.  
    elizabeth, there finally came a time, less than a year before my DW died, when it became impractical to take her out in public to provide beautiful vocal harmony at a weekly bluegrass jam session, but up to that time she loved every minute of it despite her other AD limitations or deficits or whatever you might call them. The rule was that you had to have an instrument to stand in the circle of musicians and sing with them, so they had awarded her a washboard and brush -- which she played energetically just for the privilege of singing with them. Even after she was under Hospice care at home she still found obvious pleasure in harmonizing familiar hymns with my son and me, and with a very accommodating Hospice chaplain during his weekly visits. Those chaplain visits became the high points of her life to be looked forward to as she grew weaker and weaker and as it became more a matter of him singing the hymns FOR her rather than WITH her. And probably her last conscious act just days before passing was to reach out to touch that chaplain as he sat on the edge of her bed, strumming my guitar and singing hymns for her. So I think I have to disagree with you in suggesting that just letting the person sit comfortably in front of the TV is necessarily what they'd prefer. They may very well still be "in there" and capable of simple joys -- it may be just a matter of discovering the window. I believe that there have been studies indicating that familiar music can be one such window.
  9.  
    Right, Gourd chipper, I agree with you. My point was that if they enjoy sitting in front of the TV for hours on end, for heaven's sake, let them do that. It will be different for everybody--but whatever it is that brings them "simple joys"--let them do that, support that...and don't listen to well-meaning people who say you should be doing other things.
    • CommentAuthorbhv*
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2017
     
    Bluedaze, I have tried to think of a different abbreviation, not DH. Right now I am chuckling cause we used to call each other SB or Sierra Bravo. Because our Colonel would say "Shitbirds! I am surrounded by Shitbirds". I may start using that except it is a literal description at this point, rather than a term of endearment. LOL I think I will start just using his name. There are a million Jim's.
    THANK YOU ELIZABETH.... HUGS BACK TO YOU.
    • CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2017
     
    I use hb instead of DH. My husband either tinkered in the shop/shed or sat in front of the TV. If I was outside working he would be the one to clean up my messes. So sitting in front of the TV was a norm for him. Right now he is outside sweeping the leaves off the patio since the wind has been blowing hard the last couple days. That is about the only outside or inside job he does. I also use his muscles when I need something heavy to pick up.
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43*
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2017
     
    Be glad they will go out by theseves or with some one else. Not counting waiting for me at doctor's visit, I bet show has not been away from me more than 8 hours during the last YEAR! Too much togetherness. I am going to try to do better about enforcing a change. This 24/7-365 thing needs adjusting.
    As far as what I'll call her, it will be initials, dcr, that is how she signed her oil paintings she use to do.. Charlotte, try to be easy on yourself. At least yoy you don't have the major poop problem.
    I am not looking forward to dcr's poop problem stage. eeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr
    • CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2017
     
    My FIL did not get urine or bowel incontinent until he was placed. I am hoping my husband will be that way too. Time will tell. And not all will make a mess with it like her husband did.
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43*
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
     
    What do you mean placed? State medicad? Don't You have to be poor or divorced?
  10.  
    It is mostly trial and error so with all of these good suggestions try everything. Old threads were so very, very helpful.

    Our aide put two pull-up Depends on my husband and then if one got soiled, his pants could be lowered, the side ripped on the soiled depends so it could be removed (a tricky but doable move if it is full) and then the clean Depends is already in place and can just be pulled up.
    • CommentAuthorxox
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017 edited
     
    Rodstar43, you do have to spend down your money to be eligible for Medicaid, but Medicaid for nursing homes is different than regular Medicaid. As a well spouse you are entitled to keep your home (though Medicaid may put a lien on it, depends on the state), a car, and a set amount of money (up to around $130,000, but again, depends on the state). There is a 5 year look back so you can't just give your money away to children at the last minute. There are various strategies to protect your assets as the well spouse (trusts, special annuities) and whether it is worth putting assets only in your own name depends on the state. You need to see an Eldercare attorney, not your family lawyer, for advice.
  11.  
    Typo there, paul c. It should read, "...you Can't just give your money away to children at the last minute."
    • CommentAuthorxox
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2017
     
    Thats for spotting that critical error. Fixed it for future generations.
    • CommentAuthorJazzy
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2017
     
    I just happened to drop in and see bhv is having such a difficult time.

    Friend of mine recommended "Vicks Vapo rub" on the nose area to help with the odor.

    I tried it when Willy was very stinky and it helped.

    Jazzy
    • CommentAuthorNicky
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2017
     
    I was just reading Elizabeth's comment "who are these people who are saying keep their brain active". I took a 30-hour course from our local Alzheimer Society & they stressed that it's the caregiver's responsibility to cognitively stimulate Alzheimer patients - that if they sit there & sleep it's because they are bored. Well, I'll tell you that put a heavy load on my shoulders, not to mention the guilt... Since I thought the Society was the authority on this disease, I wanted to do the right thing for my husband, so I tried many activities. I was running out of ideas. One day I came into the living room & he had fallen asleep on the sofa. My first gut reaction was "oh I can't let him sleep, I must do something with him", but then I looked at him sleeping - he looked so peaceful & content - I realized that was the most peaceful & relaxed he'd been all day - we had a difficult morning. So, that's when I decided it was OK if he dozed off & I was still a good caregiver. I still did things with him but didn't feel guilty if we weren't always active. As caregivers, we don't need to feel any extra guilt....
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43*
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2017
     
    Nicky, to me the designers of that 30 hour course were NOT spouses of AD patients. You were sure right to let him sleep. Yor sanity was at risk.
    • CommentAuthorbhv*
    • CommentTimeOct 28th 2017
     
    Elizabeth, I had to tell you a big THANK YOUfor the graphic tips you wrote.for me.
    Yesterday I had an appointment to.see a memory care unit. As I am walking out the door he decides to go poop. Yeah I should have got him to try before that but he doesn't usually go so.early in the day. I had all your directions at the top of my head and was able to remain calm and got him to work with me to handle the problem. He didn't get mad. I didn't get mad. Handled the whole incident in about ten minutes.
    Your graphic tips did something more for me. I feel more confident that I can handle more. I feel.calmer - not out of control. I went to the appointment, drove.calmly, and was not even late. I was able to discuss alzheimers and husband's behavior issues calmly.and matter of factly. No crying. I can't get over it.
    Thank you so much for sticking around. Please respond to this. I need to know you received this Thank you message and virtual hug that goes with it.
  12.  
    Just came in from a long walk with Bandit (making the most of this beautiful day before the rain storm hits tomorrow) and saw your post, bhv. Thanks for the thank you and the hug--yes, obviously I had been there and done that...many a time. The good old...bad old...days. Sigh. Here's some hugs for you. ((( )))
    • CommentAuthoraaa
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2018
     
    I just read this thread, it's older but maybe still active. When my back deteriorated I saw a neurosurgeon and a doctor at the pain clinic for epiderals. Surgeon said I was too old for the full fusion I needed, so was trying to find something to provide relief. The pain became unbearable, living on pain med and ice packs. One day I was laying on the couch watching TV and felt something cold on my legs. When I stood up I had poop all down my legs, my clothes etc and when I went to the bathroom I left a trail. I had no feeling of need to go, nor did I feel it happening - it wasn't till it spread around till I became aware. After that I had to be super careful because I had no feelings or warning. I was able to control the urine some because I sensed the feeling of fullness but not the stream but still had a lot of wash to do.

    Its called Cauda Equina, the nerves at the base of the spine that control these functions. Luckily I was scheduled for a checkup with the neurosurgeon soon - and she sent me directly to the hospital for immediate surgery.

    Although this isn't connected to AD I do have some idea of what these individuals are going through. I felt terrible, cried and cried thought my life was over. I was able to clean myself up so that wasn't a problem, but I can emphathize with both the patient and the caregiver. Do you remember when you had little kids and every once in awhile they would get their diaper off and play with the contents. Maybe AD patients have that same curiosity.
    • CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2018
     
    How successful was the surgery? I hope there was some success. I have a friend that is getting the shots to kill the nerves in her lower back. That is one problem she is aware of that the doctor can hit it wrong causing more problems than horrible back pain.
  13.  
    oakridge, my now 91 year old wife had "minimally invasive" spine surgery at age 84, fusing L2 through S1, and it afforded her significant pain relief for several years, although the pain has gradually been returning just due to age related spinal degeneration. Epidural injections never seemed to do her much good.
    • CommentAuthoraaa
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2018
     
    Thanks Charlotte, I have some pain relief from the surgery, but have been warned it will not hold up unless I obeyed all the rules. But I can walk without a walker now and need a cane only occasionally. But when I feel the first twinge I stop and lay down for an hour or so. A good housecleaning will put me in bed for several days. I am learning to live without constant pain medication, I was in a fog for so long. Has been a long road for me to adjust to a new life.

    Gourdchipper, how wonder your wife was afforded the pain relief. Epidurals never did any good either, just cost money - but our insurance required epidurals before they would OK certain procedures. I've no idea why the neurosurgeon wouldn't do the fusion at the beginning, said she didn't think I would recover from it. We'd have a lot more money in the bank today if it had been done early. They have said the degeneration would continue as I age, it was just too bad, but right now I'm thankful I can do things I need to do. Am concerned that I won't be able to care for DH as he gets worse. As well as, where will I get the money for the things he will need?
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43*
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2018
     
    oakridge, being the caregiver while suffering severe chronic pain is in itself very debilitating. Take care of your self it is said, but what if there seem to be no obtions. You are not alone in that scenario.
    • CommentAuthorRodstar43*
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2018
     
    ttt