I may be vying with Divvi for "Poop Queen" title.

I will get to the point eventually. First the latest.episode. I have eliminated all dairy. Some say he should be able to tolerate some butter, but doesn't seem to apply here. Could milk allergy rather than lactose intolerance. I have also eliminated most salad dressings - they seem to have sour cream or something. Catalina.seems to be ok. For some reason he no longer likes Italian. I haven't bought onions or mushrooms in months. Staying away from peppers for the most part.

Yesterday decided to try taking him on an adventure since we hadn't had a bad pooping experience in nearly a month. Tuesday spent all.day getting us both showered shaved and teeth brushed. Packed a backpack with clean clothes, towels, washcloths, gloves. Went to the Living Desert Park - zoo and botanical garden.

Pass bathrooms and ask each.time, but no, he doesn't want to go in there. Three.feet past one bathroom I turn around and he is peeing on a trash can. Thankfully the little mothers with their little kids were nit right next to us.

About an hour later, just around the corner from the bathroom, again, no didn't need to go, I turn around and he has his pants down around his knees and is scooping poop out of his undies and tossing it into the bushes and wiping his hand on the brick wall. I grab a towel to clean his hand but he uses that ti zip up and do his belt and gets mad that I keep trying to get him to let me clean his hand. NOOOOO he needs to studiously smear the poop on as many surfaces as inhumanly possible.

I get him in a family restroom. It is huge. Changing table nice counter around the sink. Of course he won't let me help get the undies off without smearing the poop all over the fricking seat, floor. Then he starts mushing it in the toilet. I get him to the sink to wash his hands and he has NO clue how to do that. I have to grab his hand and hold under the soap and then the water. Leading, of course, to a physical attack. Somehow I get him to remove the shoes, pants, and undies and we dance around for about 15 minutes while I try to get the poop off his bum, legs and balls. He keeps picking up the poopy clothes getting poop on his hands and legs again and then throws the poopy clothes all around the room and picks up the clean clothes smearing them with poop as well. Everytime I get one piece if clothing out of his hands he turns and picks up something else. Then starts pushing me around and trying to hit me
While I try to keep calm and get I'm to let me clean him up. Finally get him dressed in the cleanest of what is left.

No where to sit so I send him outside to out on his shoes. Two minutes and he is back with no shoes. I find them on an employees cart. Took them back inside and locked myself in there to clean this huge restroom with one washcloth. Packed everything up - yes I had plastic bags to wrap the disgusting clothes in. Find him sitting in an employee cart and he won't get out. Finally he gets up but starts unloading their cart. YET ANOTHER FIGHT.

So today I look at some Depends for men. Didn't buy them. Not sure I can get him to wear that. Although read some old threads tonight and MaryinPA says he can pull the "apparatus" out the leg hole even with the depends. That's his normal mode anyway, so they might work. I'm going to take a look at the Tena brand too.

Right now he is not urinary incontinent. Thanks to Flomax. Just doesn't seem to know the poop is coming and if he does he misses the toilet. So finally my question... let's say I get him to wear the Depends underwear type. Will.they really hold all this poop? It is sometimes a bit soft, but not liquidy. How do I get them off without him smearing it all over the bathroom? And, wait for it, WHAT, exactly do I do with the poop filled Depends?

(I don't have kids and my brothers were before disposable diapers.)

Aww bhv, It gets hard and then it gets harder than it ever should get. One suggestion from my experience. It seems that you have gotten to the point where it is no longer useful to ask if he needs to use the bathroom. What I started doing was saying "It is time to use the bathroom." Every two hours like clockwork. Any resistance either at home or when we were out I would explain the approach that British royalty use: Use the bathroom at hand because you never know when another will be accessible. I would say lets both use the bathroom while we are at it. Good bye to all privacy. Sigh.

Never had to worry about the "equipment" but I double lined the disposable underwear which had a chance of containing the mess and keeping clothes cleaner. Also, my partner never noticed when we switched from cloth to disposable. Maybe your husband won't either. I used to put the used disposable in a plastic grocery bag, knot it, and throw it in the trash.

My heart is going out to you.

A few thoughts: First of all, I agree with Charlotte that it is time to stop taking him out. He is just not capable physically or mentally of doing these kinds of outings--is not getting anything beneficial out of it-- and the person he used to be would probably be horrified at what happened. Plus it is ruining the outing for you, bhv, and is really not fair to the general public, especially in terms of the soiled public areas and restrooms. It's time to leave him home, perhaps with a sitter or aide, and enjoy these outings by yourself. You need them and you deserve them...and unfortunately, the time for doing them together with your husband is past. Alzheimers has taken away his capability.

In regards to incontinent care, I pretty much echo what Lindylou said. Have a lot of supplies on hand--more than you think you'll need. Gloves, plastic grocery bags, lots of paper towels, toilet paper, disposable washcloths and wet wipes. Keep his washable linens, like his towels, separate from yours. Maybe use two different colors, one for you and one for him. Wipes permeated with Clorox for bathroom surfaces clean-up. Room deodorizer spray. A big bottle of cheap hand lotion for softening dried poop so you can get it off. Alcohol squares or a bottle of alcohol and cotton balls to wipe under your nose when the smell is too bad. A box of masks to put on over your alcohol-wiped nostrils if the smell is really bad. (And if you're paying aides, they will appreciate this stuff.) Anything and everything disposable just put in the plastic grocery bags--double-bag if needed--and throw into your outside rubbish bins. I would try different brands of "Depends" until you find the one that works best for him. And of course, getting him to wear the products is a whole different story. I had to buy the more expensive "Depends" that looked and felt more like real underwear. You can check your local supermarket/pharmacy/medical supply house, and research online to see what is out there. Throw out or hide his "regular" underwear, so there is simply nothing but incontinent underwear in his dresser drawers. And make sure his slacks are easy on easy off--I put my husband into fleecy sweatpants, which were warm and comfortable, and the easiest thing I could find to get on and off him--even though he wouldn't have been caught dead in them before Alzheimers.

Now I'll get a little graphic...sorry. So you smell that he has pooped. Take him into the bathroom and stand him in front of the toilet, facing you. Pull his pants and Depends down, and sit him on the toilet. Slip shoes off (recommend easy on, easy off shoes--that's for a different thread). Slide the pants and soiled Depends off, put Depends in your plastic grocery bag, knot it closed and set it aside. Stand him up and clean him up with your supplies--toss soiled stuff in another grocery bag, knot and set aside. (You don't want him trying to grab the soiled things and handle them--that's why I'm saying to knot them immediately.) Also make sure toilet seat is clean, and sit him back down. Slide on a new pair of Depends, with liner in them if you do line them, (what to use for liner is another subject--many ideas about that). Slide on pants if they are clean. If not, have a fresh pair ready to put on him. (Sometimes the poop stays in the Depends...sometimes unfortunately depending on consistency it may slide out onto pants.) Put shoes back on feet. (Obviously if socks got soiled, you're going to change them, too.) Stand him up, and pull pants and Depends up all the way. Done.

THANK YOU! Sorry to the ones who don't have this problem yet, but I had to be graphic to get the answers I needed. I was hoping elizabeth would be here because, elizabeth, you were right there in all divvi threads on this subject and I knew you would be able to tell me the steps that were not in there. The "graphic" answer was just.what I was looking for. Had no idea about the hand lotion to soften it. I need to fire up my laptop to print this one out.

Lindylou, I will start doing what you.said. I had.come to that conclusion but hadn't framed the way to say it yet.

Charlotte, you were there on the divvi threads too. Still here. Me too. That's the stuff that scared me back when I first found this site and made me afraid to say anything, but I knew the info was there for when I would need it. Recently you.said you give your DH something every day.else the bathroom is a mess. I forget what you called it. I think I know what.caused this episode -perhaps a teensy bit of onion in a teensy bit of salsa, so no more of that. But if there is something gentlenthat.keeps the poop a little more solid, that might help.

Again, thank you for sharing your hard won experience!!!

When I first had hired caretakers trying to change him they would just rip the depends down the side so they didn't have to slide all the way down his legs. Later he went into the diaper type but they are hard to get on if he is standing.

That's a pretty good idea for later Gourdchipper. I am gonna have to try the depends that appear to be undies. I mean it took me about 6 mnths.to get him to accept the new undies I bought because his old ones all fell apart. That was pretty funny actually. He insisted on wearing them even though there was a hole in the front and the "apparatus" stuck out.
Tonight he had yet another episode smeared all over the.bathroom. But he didn't fight me trying to get him cleaned up. Apparently he can learn or get used to some things.
I am demoralized though. The reason I took him out was that it seemed at every turn people were telling me not to leave him in front of the tv, you have to keep his brain active, you have to keep him occupied. A friend was telling me how her friend's mother has dementia and her friend and 6 other siblings have a color coded schedule on the frig with activities for mom. Isn't that wonderful, she asked me, they have a goal to take mom out 3 times a week to somewhere interesting. Yep, isn't that wonderful. For the last 12-18 months I have been working on the property to get everything fixed and looking good enough to sell if I decide to go away. So a few weeks ago I tried taking him to the golf course. He hit exactly one golf ball and wanted to go home. Then I took him to the Air Museum. He was ok there. Liked seeing the C123 he flew in Viet Nam. But was ready to go pretty quick. By lunch time he didn't remember the trip. So I tried the Living Desert thing as something I have wanted to do. But elizabeth is right. Every time I pointed out something he said he saw it, but he wasn't close enough to see. He said he wasn't interested in that place but wanted to be with me.

He kept refusing to walk in the neighborhood with me, but now he wants to be with me all the time. Perhaps I should try a walk in the morning before he usually does all the pooping. Problem with that is he walks so slowly now it drives me mad. No matter how slowly I walk he seems to lag about 10 steps behind

I will get started on finding in home care and respite care.

Who are these people who are saying keep their brains active, keep them occupied, don't leave them sitting in front of the TV? These are obviously people who don't know zip about Alzheimers and related dementias. You aren't going to "keep their brain active" if their brain is shutting down with Alzheimers. And "keeping them occupied" means them doing something repetitive and soothing, something they enjoy that gives them security--most likely at home--maybe it is the quintessential folding clothes, or maybe it is something like just sitting comfortably in front of the TV in their lazy chair for hours. Taking an Alzheimers patient out to new activities and experiences is just going to confuse them and make them anxious. It will probably be exhausting for them, as they try to cope with the new environment and try to look like they are "with it" even though they aren't. And it sure is tiring for the caregiver. Past a certain point, it just isn't worth it--it' not good for the patient or the caregiver either.

That's a good idea Bluedaze. And I recognize your name from the old threads I have read. So grateful this board keeps all that for searching so we can benefit from your hard won experience in the trenches. And that you are still willing to help us.
Elizabeth it seems to be everywhere I look. Magazine articles, ads on facebook, even the care pathways classes I took. I stopped reading most of it because I am more like Charlotte. I really don't care.a.lot of the time. He has turned into my worst nightmare of a husband - that's why I never expected to get married. But I did get married. So sometimes I convince myself that I am not being a good enough wife and I look for some way to do better. It was a worthwhile experiment I guess. Just like in the scientific method sometimes the failures lead to the best solution.

I think my MIL was one who tried to keep my FIL busy. Well, she died of a massive heart attack 9 years before him. I say she literally killed herself trying to keep him entertained. The ones I read the most saying they have activities planned all day are ones taking care of mom or dad, but I have read spouses stories of them doing that.

NOT ME!

elizabeth, there finally came a time, less than a year before my DW died, when it became impractical to take her out in public to provide beautiful vocal harmony at a weekly bluegrass jam session, but up to that time she loved every minute of it despite her other AD limitations or deficits or whatever you might call them. The rule was that you had to have an instrument to stand in the circle of musicians and sing with them, so they had awarded her a washboard and brush -- which she played energetically just for the privilege of singing with them. Even after she was under Hospice care at home she still found obvious pleasure in harmonizing familiar hymns with my son and me, and with a very accommodating Hospice chaplain during his weekly visits. Those chaplain visits became the high points of her life to be looked forward to as she grew weaker and weaker and as it became more a matter of him singing the hymns FOR her rather than WITH her. And probably her last conscious act just days before passing was to reach out to touch that chaplain as he sat on the edge of her bed, strumming my guitar and singing hymns for her. So I think I have to disagree with you in suggesting that just letting the person sit comfortably in front of the TV is necessarily what they'd prefer. They may very well still be "in there" and capable of simple joys -- it may be just a matter of discovering the window. I believe that there have been studies indicating that familiar music can be one such window.

Bluedaze, I have tried to think of a different abbreviation, not DH. Right now I am chuckling cause we used to call each other SB or Sierra Bravo. Because our Colonel would say "Shitbirds! I am surrounded by Shitbirds". I may start using that except it is a literal description at this point, rather than a term of endearment. LOL I think I will start just using his name. There are a million Jim's.
THANK YOU ELIZABETH.... HUGS BACK TO YOU.

Be glad they will go out by theseves or with some one else. Not counting waiting for me at doctor's visit, I bet show has not been away from me more than 8 hours during the last YEAR! Too much togetherness. I am going to try to do better about enforcing a change. This 24/7-365 thing needs adjusting.
As far as what I'll call her, it will be initials, dcr, that is how she signed her oil paintings she use to do.. Charlotte, try to be easy on yourself. At least yoy you don't have the major poop problem.
I am not looking forward to dcr's poop problem stage. eeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr

What do you mean placed? State medicad? Don't You have to be poor or divorced?

Rodstar43, you do have to spend down your money to be eligible for Medicaid, but Medicaid for nursing homes is different than regular Medicaid. As a well spouse you are entitled to keep your home (though Medicaid may put a lien on it, depends on the state), a car, and a set amount of money (up to around $130,000, but again, depends on the state). There is a 5 year look back so you can't just give your money away to children at the last minute. There are various strategies to protect your assets as the well spouse (trusts, special annuities) and whether it is worth putting assets only in your own name depends on the state. You need to see an Eldercare attorney, not your family lawyer, for advice.

Thats for spotting that critical error. Fixed it for future generations.

I was just reading Elizabeth's comment "who are these people who are saying keep their brain active". I took a 30-hour course from our local Alzheimer Society & they stressed that it's the caregiver's responsibility to cognitively stimulate Alzheimer patients - that if they sit there & sleep it's because they are bored. Well, I'll tell you that put a heavy load on my shoulders, not to mention the guilt... Since I thought the Society was the authority on this disease, I wanted to do the right thing for my husband, so I tried many activities. I was running out of ideas. One day I came into the living room & he had fallen asleep on the sofa. My first gut reaction was "oh I can't let him sleep, I must do something with him", but then I looked at him sleeping - he looked so peaceful & content - I realized that was the most peaceful & relaxed he'd been all day - we had a difficult morning. So, that's when I decided it was OK if he dozed off & I was still a good caregiver. I still did things with him but didn't feel guilty if we weren't always active. As caregivers, we don't need to feel any extra guilt....

Elizabeth, I had to tell you a big THANK YOUfor the graphic tips you wrote.for me.
Yesterday I had an appointment to.see a memory care unit. As I am walking out the door he decides to go poop. Yeah I should have got him to try before that but he doesn't usually go so.early in the day. I had all your directions at the top of my head and was able to remain calm and got him to work with me to handle the problem. He didn't get mad. I didn't get mad. Handled the whole incident in about ten minutes.
Your graphic tips did something more for me. I feel more confident that I can handle more. I feel.calmer - not out of control. I went to the appointment, drove.calmly, and was not even late. I was able to discuss alzheimers and husband's behavior issues calmly.and matter of factly. No crying. I can't get over it.
Thank you so much for sticking around. Please respond to this. I need to know you received this Thank you message and virtual hug that goes with it.

I just read this thread, it's older but maybe still active. When my back deteriorated I saw a neurosurgeon and a doctor at the pain clinic for epiderals. Surgeon said I was too old for the full fusion I needed, so was trying to find something to provide relief. The pain became unbearable, living on pain med and ice packs. One day I was laying on the couch watching TV and felt something cold on my legs. When I stood up I had poop all down my legs, my clothes etc and when I went to the bathroom I left a trail. I had no feeling of need to go, nor did I feel it happening - it wasn't till it spread around till I became aware. After that I had to be super careful because I had no feelings or warning. I was able to control the urine some because I sensed the feeling of fullness but not the stream but still had a lot of wash to do.

Its called Cauda Equina, the nerves at the base of the spine that control these functions. Luckily I was scheduled for a checkup with the neurosurgeon soon - and she sent me directly to the hospital for immediate surgery.

Although this isn't connected to AD I do have some idea of what these individuals are going through. I felt terrible, cried and cried thought my life was over. I was able to clean myself up so that wasn't a problem, but I can emphathize with both the patient and the caregiver. Do you remember when you had little kids and every once in awhile they would get their diaper off and play with the contents. Maybe AD patients have that same curiosity.

oakridge, my now 91 year old wife had "minimally invasive" spine surgery at age 84, fusing L2 through S1, and it afforded her significant pain relief for several years, although the pain has gradually been returning just due to age related spinal degeneration. Epidural injections never seemed to do her much good.

oakridge, being the caregiver while suffering severe chronic pain is in itself very debilitating. Take care of your self it is said, but what if there seem to be no obtions. You are not alone in that scenario.