Hi everybody, I haven't been posting anything on the site for a while. I lost Kathryn on April 25th 2013 as some may remember. I have been slowly moving forward. I met a nice lady about a year or so ago while playing golf and we have been seeing each other since then. I know she would like to have more of a committed relationship and I like her a lot. sometimes I think about a committed relationship myself. She asked me last night what I saw in the future for us as far as our relationship was concerned. I told her I didn't really know, that I would have to think about it. She told me she loved me and asked if I felt that I would reach the point that I loved her. I again told her I didn't know. She asked me if it was because of Kathryn and I said yes. She asked me if There was any chance that she could replace Kathryn in my life and I told her no and I would not expect anybody to be able to do that. That it would be very unfair of me to expect that. . I still love Kathryn as much as I ever have. I am still angry about her being cheated out of the best part of our life together. I went and saw a councilor but that didn't help at all. I think about Kathryn all the time and I miss her. It doesn't matter what I am doing. I can be right in the middle of something and she pops into my thoughts.
My problem is I still love Kathryn everyday and I don't think I can give that kind of love to anybody else. I may not be able to ever again. How do you move on?
Hi Jim, good to see you again. I was a bit taken aback to read that your friend asked if she would one day be able to "replace" Kathryn. Does she not understand that she (Kathryn) is a part of who you are now and could never be replaced or forgotten? Take your time, Jim, you will know when you are ready to commit to a full time relationship and now may not be that time. I remember your love for your wife, coming through in every post that you wrote so don't ever feel that to still love and miss her is a bad thing because it is not. One day the sadness will not be so unbearable but until then just be kind to yourself and know that here you are understood and supported.
The question is not to replace Kathryn but do you have room in your heart to add another? I am new to this my wife is still here, in care, but for me I know I do. I know I want to move on that is what my wife wanted. We are all unique no one answer. What would Kathryn want? Would she want you to be alone? As hard as it is do what Kathryn would want for you. You deserve happiness grab hold of it. The alternative is more of what you have! Sorry just as how I see it. It does not mean you love Kathryn any less honour her wishes. I know if the situation were reversed, think about it, would you want Kathryn to live a lonely life or would you want happiness for her? You have a relationship which it sounds like you enjoy so enjoy. You can still love Kathryn nobody can or should ask you to give that up but you can open your heart to another. Good luck and remember this is the first day of the rest of your life make it a good one and open your heart to what is ahead of you.
Perhaps your current friend's words were a poor choice and she did not realize it. Try to explain the difference to her about "replacing" and "joining" (not even sure is "joining" is the best word, but picture your heart with three people in it instead of two). Rona said it best in his first sentence.
Anyway, it is a good conversation to open up because her understanding and acceptance of your love for Kathryn is the key to the future of any relationship you have with her. You might benefit from a session or two with a couples therapist who can guide that conversation. Some women insist on being "the replacement" and will not tolerate references to, or and mementos about a former wife. Others embrace the former spouse as having nurtured and cared for the friend (you) and are grateful.
I know I am going to start a new relationship soon some may think this is not right how could you? It is too soon Your wife is still here only in a care home? Yes that is true but I know, she told me when she could, that when the time comes I have to be in care move on with your life. When is that suppose to be is there an appropriate time line? Living with her in care and visiting I find very hard I go most days.
As Cassie said you will know when the time is right. The time is right for me I still love Lisa, love what we had, but what we had is gone, the lady I love is here in body but that is it. She Recognizes me but is not sure if we are married if I am her husband or what. So do I put my life on hold longer, it feels like I have been living in limbo for a long time I have been grieving the loss of my love for a long time and this can go on for a long time longer.
As mentioned before I will never abandon her she needs me to comfort her, to make sure she is being cared for properly, to be her advocate. Any new relationship that I do have will have to understand that or it will never work. So that is me.
Again though saying this and actually doing it are two different things anchor20' you are doing it. You have taken that step you say you like her a lot you just have not been able to say the L word. It is not out of the question for her to ask you where you see the relationship going but as Cassie says maybe a poor choice of words. If you like her and want the relationship to continue tell her and if you have room in her heart for her, as it seems you do, then tell her but it is room in your heart not your whole heart she needs to understand and accept that.
Jim, I can speak with the voice of experience on this topic. As you may recall, I lost Frances, my precious wife of sixty years, seven years ago and remarried seven months later -- which some might have regarded as scandalous. But I knew that I didn't want to live out the remainder of my "golden years" alone, and I knew that this isn't what Frances would have wanted either. It's something we had discussed years ago as a hypothetical, when we were both still young and healthy -- what if one or the other of us died? So I never felt that remarriage was any sort of betrayal of the wonderful life and love that Frances and I had, and I still treasure memories of our life together. I still blow kisses at her photo that remains prominently displayed in the living room. right alongside a photo of new wife Joyce's former husband Earl (and if she wants to blow kisses at him that's fine with me too). When we entered into this present marriage we did so with our eyes wide open, recognizing each others' prior histories, pre-existing health conditions, etc. and no illusions or expectations of this marriage replacing or measuring up in any way to our prior marriages. That was then and this is now. Jim, you're still in your sixties where I was in my eighties, so you've probably got twenty more years of "after" in front of you than I had when I re-married. So if you're the marring kind, then I'd recommend that you start looking forward rather than backward, still loving Kathryn, but seeing if you can't find room in your heart and your life for someone new also.
Why don't you just ask your new friend if she could accept being second place in your life. No one can replace Kathryn, but you could love her as a friend. Could she handle that?
My heart goes out to you Jim - a love so special is a once in a lifetime. But, life goes on. You have to decide whether you are happy being single, if so do you want female friendship mixed in with the single life or do you want to leave the door open for a possible new relationship sometime down the road? We have people here, and I have known ones, that are perfectly happy to stay single after a special love like you and Kathyrn had, others that want to stay single but do want friendships to round out their life, and others like gourdchipper who moved on to a new marriage. It takes a special person to be secure in a relationship knowing that the deceased spouse will always be in their heart. Gourdchipper has found that special woman. If you remember Susan who lost her husband, her soulmate, after only a short marriage, she has moved on. Jim will always hold a special place in her heart, but she is trying to move on. Nikki lost her soulmate and for any foreseeable short or long term future (or maybe never) I do not think she sees another man in her life - their love was so special just like you and Kathyrn.
I would continue with friendship status. If she can't deal with that then she is not right for you. It was wise for her to ask the question now instead of going on hoping so both of you can decide instead of stringing each other along with false hope. Remember, some people are happy being single with friendships to fill their life.
As said, only you know what is right for you. If you keep an open heart you will know if/when the time is right to move on. If it never comes, then be happy with friendships. There are women out there that will be happy with companionship and friendship without the commitment of marriage.
The poor choice of words was mine. What she said was "did I think that there come a day that she would be able to fill the void in my life that came from losing Kathryn" or some to that effect. My problem is after I spend a few days doing things with her I feel like I am having what might be described as a panic attack. I have to leave and be by myself.
I have even rented out my houses in Jacksonville because everywhere I go in Jacksonville I see Kathryn in my heart. I got a place in Sky Valley, Ga. and while I still miss Kathryn every day I can go places and do things without all the memories being triggered. It doesn't make life any better but it does make it easier.
I still have money sitting in investments because I can't bring myself to get it out. I know that is kind of silly but it is the way I feel. I still haven't collected on life insurance policies because in my heart I feel like it is benefiting by Kathryn dying. I just can't do it. I don't want it. I still have not stepped foot in the room she was in while I cared for her and doubt that I ever will so I rented out that house.
I know there is no right or wrong about this and that every body is different. I know what Kathryn would want for me Rona because we talked about it even before she got sick. She told me that if she died before me she wanted me to remarry. I told her " once I've had the best why mess with the rest". That made her smile but I understood what she was saying but that doesn't change my feelings.
I have seen older guys who are living by themselves and I know I do not want to end up by myself but it is like I can't feel any love for any body else right now. I still love Kathryn as much as ever and I feel like I always will.
Jim, What you wrote in the first three paragraphs of your recent post (after 3½ years, you can't manage investments or collect on Kathryn's life insurance, you can't stay in the town where you lived together, you can't go into the room where you cared for her, and you get panic attacks after spending time with another woman) make me think that your problem is not only about being in love with Kathryn. You are "stuck" in a lot of areas, not just the romance department. I'm wondering if you are suffering from anxiety or something like that.
You're probably questioning my professional qualifications for saying that. Well, I have none. But I do have a great deal of experience with anxiety caused by exposure to Alzheimer's. A lot of these counselors seem to be no better than potted plants but I have to believe that there are some who actually know how to help. (If you find one, let me know and I'll fly down there and sign up!) You deserve to get this problem resolved for your own sake and to live your life free of this sad burden, whether you team up with a romantic partner or not.
You mentioned panic attack and myrtle said anxiety - both are probably correct. You probably need to identify what is causing it. Some things could be: fear of the unknown, fear of starting all over building a relationship, feeling even though Kathyrn wanted you to go on with life and remarry - do you feel unfaithful; etc. Once you can identify what is causing it, you can move on with whatever life brings your way. But, since you have not cashed in the life insurance you appear to be stuck. Why you are stuck is again something that needs to be identified. You need some closure on areas that are safe like the insurance, you rented out the house so closed that door (for now). Take them step by step. If you can''t or don't want to spend the insurance money then give it to organizations in memory of her. By not collecting you are just allowing the insurance company to benefit.
I get answers by writing/journaling. The answers often come as I write. Might try that or wrote letters to Kathyrn - you probably talk to her anyway so writing it might even help more.
I'm in a situation something like Rona's, having moved my wife into an ALF not too long ago, so I don't have the same perspective and experience that you do.
I'll just comment on one thing, the idea of moving on. That phrase "moving on with your life" used to bother me, and it still does a little bit, because what some people mean (even well-intentioned people, though I don't think people with experience as Alzheimer's spouses) sounds too much like leaving habits, memories, and even your spouse behind in the past. For me, the changes in my life aren't really moving on, mentally, emotionally, or physically. It's more an effort to figure out, day by day, the person I want to be, keeping in mind that the person I am today has been shaped by the past. For me, again, one of the hardest things is trying to be an integrated person, combining today's realities with my memories of the past. I'm still trying to get it right, after years of thinking about this. Am I moving on? No more than anyone else in the world is, living and changing from one day to the next.
When I say I am going to have a new relationship soon well it just doesn't work that wAy does it. I should say I am open to it and will Not turn down any opportunities. Again saying that if the opportunity presents itself who knows how I will feel or how I will react. I know I want a partner in life, I am better with a partner, I know we were cheated out of many years together the golden years,!!!! Lisa was short changed and that is one thing that really hurts everytime I see her, why her she had so much life in her so many things we were going to do.
Just after diagnosis I talked with a fellow whose wife had alz and was then in a home. He said to me Alzheimer's may get one of us but I'll be dammed if I will let it get both of us. That always stuck with me. For me if I wallow in it feeling sorry for myself and for Lisa where will it get me? Need to let go of what we cannot change. I cannot change Lisa's condition but I won't let go of her but I will move on. RSA I don't really know what moving on means either but I do know if you keep doing what you are doing you will keep getting what you got.
Again not trying to demean anybodies grief or telling anybody what they should do just laying out how I feel and what I am trying to do.
Rona, I have trouble expressing myself on this topic, because it's still unclear in my own head. But from everything you've said here, it sounds to me as though you're doing the right thing. I didn't mean to come across as implying anything different. I tell my friends that I'm getting by, day to day, and enjoying what I can in small moments of pleasure or happiness. I think that when opportunities for happiness come up, we should take them if we can.
RSA, I think there's general agreement here that telling someone else they should "move on with your life" is dismissive and obtuse. That's not to say that some of us are not stuck in a mental or emotional prison that we'd like to move out of. I have been in a jail of low-level anxiety for years. But it's not something I can walk out of just because I decide to, which is what "get on with your life" implies. I have to disassemble the structure brick by brick and hope that at some point it will crash down and I'll be free. Whether we do this by maintaining good habits (like elizabeth), or taking cruises (like MaryinPA) or keeping a journal (like CO2) or by fixing up a shed in the back yard (like me), or by medication and counselling, is our own choice.
Rona, I'm glad you know what will make you feel fulfilled, even as you go through this difficult time. Knowing yourself and what you want in life is half the battle.
RSA - I like the "It's more an effort to figure out, day by day, the person I want to be, keeping in mind that the person I am today has been shaped by the past". Yes, I think I could agree moving on is reinventing ourselves, trying to figure out who we are now, who we want to be in the future, then find ways to progress to the new us. Many of us have been married most of our adult lives. Being single causes us to redefine who we are and who we want to be. My husband is still at home but as I become the one to do everything I am reinventing who I am, what my job and responsibility is now.That will change as I 'move on' with him and this disease.
I said "what might be described as a panic attack" only because I don't know how else to describe it. I never feel anxiety or depression at all. I worked in a highly stressful job and it is my comfort zone. I am so comfortable in stressful situations that when I retired a friend took me fishing and at end of the day I handed him my new fishing rod and tackle box and told him I was retiring from fishing. Waiting for four hours for a fish to bite the hook and then throwing him back was too stressful for me. I just don't know any other way to describe how I feel at those times when I have to leave and be by myself. All I do know is I still love Kathryn and my feeling for her are as strong as they have ever been. Maybe I just don't want to love anybody else. I don't know.
Thanks for your thoughts, myrtle and Charlotte. Sometimes, during bleak moments, I wonder if I'm the only person thinking about such things, but of course I'm not alone. myrtle, your "disassemble the structure brick by brick" is very close to the way I think about it, too. I want to use at least some of those bricks as a new foundation for the future. And Charlotte, it's also a kind of re-invention of myself, to be whole again and still recognizably myself.
JimB, I keep busy, too, with work, keeping in mind my own goals in life. Good luck again.
When I read some of my posts sometimes it sounds to me like I am full of this pravodo "moving on" getting past it, not letting it get me down, finding another relationship, but then I wonder if the bricks just haven't really tumbled down yet?
When emailing with friends I use the term a lot I need to start and find out who I am again. Like all of you that is not easy I have been getting out but I have also turned down many opportunities. I have the opportunity now to do things I have talked about for a long time , ie golfing again, but I have not done it? Sometimes I find I would rather just be home by myself maybe that is finding out who I am, maybe it is realizing I am ok on my own? I have always been a social person but now going out and trying to make small talk just is not working for me.
So what does this all mean I haven't a clue other than I think I am learning some things about myself. I am just going to head off to see Lisa but lately I feel like a bit of a masochist I keep going because I want to but many times I come home feeling beaten up and exhausted.
Ok I am going out this weekend with a lady friend and I am going to have fun. This is the first day of the rest of my life and I am going to make it a good one.
I completely get it. Ground hog day gets old. I have to say that unless you are a spouse and are doing this on an everyday basis no one can even understand the loneliness. I even have 5 kids but i am still lonely. Questions I always ask myself is should i be pining away and not doing other things? Should i slowly disappear as well? My advice, go out and enjoy. It does not mean you don't love your wife. its just not the same person. I
Jim, Since you are not anxious or depressed and are not really having panic attacks, it seems like this may not even be a problem for you (except for the unresolved financial matters) but might be a problem for someone with whom you have a relationship. I have never seen a discussion of the issue on this site but I've often heard of people who ended a romantic relationship because the other person was too deeply attached to their late spouse to make a new commitment. It think it happens more than we think. But everyone is different and not everyone expects a commitment.
It's good to hear from you Jim. Firstly, let me give you a big ol' cyber hug ((HUGS))
As Charlotte mentioned, I lost Lynn last September. The 25th is his first Angel-versary.... and it's tough.... And she is correct, I will never love another as I did Lynn. Never, ever ever....That is just a fact. And I get it Jim, I am still madly in love with Lynn. And you know what? That is perfectly fine!! Try to do yourself a big favor and try not to listen to what people feel YOU should feel or do. Trust yourself, be gentle with yourself and do what feels right for you.
Maybe you just need more time. It sounds to me that you aren't really having a panic attack per say, but that you are uncomfortable with the situation for too long of a period. From what I read this only happens after you spend a few days in her company... is that correct? If so, maybe you could just spend less time with her for now.
When I read this.. "My problem is I still love Kathryn everyday and I don't think I can give that kind of love to anybody else. I may not be able to ever again." My first thought was that I feel exactly the same way. But I do get the feeling that you do want to have another relationship and that you don't want to be alone... so Jim, maybe you could try to adjust your thinking? Maybe it would be a bit easier for you if you could understand and accept that no, you will never love another as you love your beloved Kathryn... and that is to be expected. But that doesn't mean that you can't have love in your heart for another person. Absolutely it will be a different kind of love, but it could still be wonderful.
I'm going to have a little rant here... fair warning lol. But you know, this business of "moving on" or "getting a new life" has always bothered me. I've written about it here in the past. It sits wrong with me, as if I am to just throw Lynn and our love in the trash and forget about him. And while I'm at it, not much ticks me off more these days than the expression "you can't live in the past".....I am now 49, and I have to say, I am sick to death of people telling me what I should do and feel. And honestly, it's not new...for the 6+ years that Lynn was in a nursing home, I had people, particularly men who wanted to date me, telling me I had to "move on". You can imagine how well that went over. Pfffft!!!
Here's the thing, you don't just "get a new life"... we have ONE life, and our past forms our futures. I will gradually figure out who this Nikki is... but I have NO intention of just leaving Lynn behind. That is a ridiculous notion to me. Wherever I go, whatever I do in my future, I will carry Lynn's love with me. It is because of Lynn and the love we share that I am the person I am today. He is in every fiber of my being! And I know he always will be. Through time and space, his love will ripple though all of my tomorrows. And to me, that is a beautiful, wonderful thing. ♥♥♥
I meet people all the time who have been widows/widowers for years. They say there will never be anyone else or not interested in marrying again. My mom's dad died in 1944 when my grandmother was 58. She never remarried - was happy cause her life was full with her grandkids and volunteer work.
Once again we are all individuals and there is no one right answer we all must choose what we feel is right for us. Nikki I loved your post, especially the last paragraph. Thank you and good luck you have a lot of life left and keeping Lynn in you heart is a beautiful and wonderful thing.
Nikki, you expressed your thoughts & feelings just beautifully.
I never realized that you were so young! You were already on this site by the time I arrived, you were one of the first ones to pop out at me with your story...I'm so sorry this hit you & Lynn at such a young age (well, actually sorry that it hit you at all!) To me, it's evident in your comment that you are going to be okay...changed, different, but okay.
One of my friends told me that in response to peoples' advice that she "move on" after her husband's death, she has told them that she will LIVE ON. I really like that one and wanted to pass it on to all.