Mr. Hostile has refused to take a shower or brush his teeth for almost three weeks. He is refusing to get a haircut and has not had one since early January. He becomes very aggressive if I try to get him to use basic hygiene protocol. He stinks so bad that it makes me nauseous having to sleep with him. When I try to sleep elsewhere, he drags me by the hair back to the bed. My other concern is that I have to get him to a VA appointment next Tuesday and I'm going to be embarrassed to tears if I can't get him to cooperate by then. His PC doctor told him he needed a haircut two weeks ago and then shot me a nasty look like I should have handled this. Since I'm now down to 94 lbs., you would think it would be obvious to a damn Medical Moron that I can't battle a 200 lb. person into doing anything. I did finally tell him last night that he really stinks. His reply was that was his business and I'm not his mother.
I read all the caregiver tips and the previous comments on bathing/showering. Nothing addressed how to handle someone who is combative. I did call his brother to see if he would talk to him. His reply was "I'm not going to get punched out trying to make him get cleaned up". Zebra.
Can you bribe him to take a bath or shower or brush his teeth?
Don't be concerned about his VA appointment. The doctors should see him as he is. Some people have found themselves not getting the help they needed because they helped so much with grooming that others didn't see the problem. If the doctor says anything unkind say what his brother said and ask if he now better understands the problems you face with your hb.
I can't answer your question about how to get him to bathe or brush his teeth, but I can suggest something to deal with the doctors. IMO, this is a medical problem and you need to put the responsibility where it belongs. If something does not appear in a medical record, it did not happen. But what does appear in a medical record is usually taken seriously. So I suggest adding to your husband's medical records by writing a short note about this to all your husband's doctors.
-- You said something on another thread that made me think your husband was taking an anti-psychotic drug. I would write a note to the doctor who prescribed that drug and tell him/her what you said here - that your husband has refused to shower or brush his teeth for three weeks. Also say that he has dragged you by the hair and you fear for your safety. Then say that since this doctor has prescribed medication for him, you are telling the doctor about this change in behavior so he/she can review the medication. Say that you will call the doctor's office next week to follow up. (Then do that.)
-- If it was not his PCP who prescribed the medication, then also write to the PCP, saying that you are following up on his/her comment to your husband on X-date that he needed a hair cut. Say that you think the doctor should know that your husband has refused to get a haircut for two months and that he has also refused to shower or brush his teeth for three weeks. Say that you did not want explain this in front of your husband because you fear for your safety because he has been dragging you around by you hair. Say you will call the doctor's office next week for medical advice. (Then do that.) Do NOT apologize or say anything about the doctor shooting you a nasty look. Keep it businesslike.
-- Prepare a note for the VA doctor and ask that it be given to the doctor before the doctor examines your husband. In the note, explain about the shower, teeth, and hair and say you are asking for his/her medical advice. Also say that you are putting this in a note rather than explaining it in front of your husband because you fear for your safety. Do NOT apologize.
P.S. I just read your post about his brother. You might want to add a sentence to the notes to your husbands doctors, saying that your husband's brother has refused to talk to him about bathing because he fears for his safety.
Paul, I could bribe him with sex but he's been impotent for 15 years so that wouldn't work. Any other bribery ideas?
Myrtle, I will follow up on your advice with the Medical Morons, especially the VA appointment coming up. He is not on any anti-psychotic drugs because of their concerns with the heavy drinking. Evidently the combo can knock your lights out permanently. They prescribed Ativan early on for his aggression but then told me not to include it unless I could get him to stop drinking. There has been some discussion on removing the Aricept since it is hard on the liver along with the booze. The PC will not agree to any anti-psychotic drugs period as she considers them "black box".
Thank you both for your help. I was concerned that the doctors would have me prosecuted for not fulfilling caregiver duties since they seem to lay everything on me as my responsibility to handle. The last shot I got was about him losing weight (they don't seem concerned that I have gone from 120lbs. to 94lbs???). I tried to explain it is hard to get someone to eat when they are drunk or passed out by the time I get in the house after dark from doing all the outside work.
Also, the hygiene issue is and has been in the medical records for a year along with his reactions when I try to address it. The past physical aggression and the on going situations have also been in the medical records for over a year. That is when the Ativan was prescribed but removed when the drinking wasn't resolved. I was advised to contact a caregiver's group to learn how to handle these situations more effectively. I was advised to encourage him to go to AA for help. You don't need to be offended by the verbal reaction he had to AA or their offer to put him on Anabuse (spelling?) to help him withdraw.
It sounds like you are getting to the place where the next violent assault, even if he has not actually done it yet because you know he will, is to call the police. Nothing can save him from this disease taking his life. That leaves you needing to do whatever it takes to make sure you are in a condition to have a life after.
With the VA, does he have a neurologist? I know my husband is required to see her once a year to deal with the AD, the primary handles every thing else. The VA has a great email system in the https://www.myhealth.va.gov/index.html
I suggest you make good use of it. Send emails and maybe if the doctor sees them (which he should or at least his nurse) he may take you more seriously. It is true, if they are drinking it creates a whole other set of problems. There use to be someone here whose husband drank wine all the time. I don't remember her name, but if she comes along she might be able to give you more tips.
As I said, it is time to take care of you, protect yourself. If he has to be hauled off to jail or the psych ward then so be it.
Charlotte, my soul sister, that is what I'm thinking. Even though the little dinky Sheriff Department said "call them only if there is blood or broken bones" I will make the call on the next hair jerking episode. I have a C2 and C3 that are very injured from a car accident and are actually denting the spinal cord in. Any jerking around or a bad fall can sever the spine. I'll get the xrays and MRI out to show the Mounties why it is a big deal/life threatening to be manhandled.
He is not receiving any care from the VA - this appointment is to get him finalized on a disability allowance. The Neurologist and PC are private practice and paid by Medicare -- the best I could get that will even take Medicare.
I was reading some old posts a bit ago and did get a giggle out of the one spouse that sprayed her "stinky" with Oust. I might be able to get by with that when he's sleeping. Haven't figured out how to get away from the Dragon Breath - maybe wear a face mask like the dental people do when I'm in the house????
Sorry, I misunderstood about the medications. I just thought you should make sure that what you told his PCP was included in the medical records.
My understanding is that the VA requires annual physical exams for anyone who is getting VA health benefits. My husband has his own doctors but had to have annual VA exams because the VA was paying for day care at a private agency. That was considered a health benefit. Before the exams, the VA asked me to bring copies of his PCP's recent records. You should make sure the VA has those records. The VA must have a lot of experience treating violent alcoholics. I wonder if it has any programs that might help him. (By "him" I mean "you".) Ask them.
I agree with Charlotte. I am very concerned about your welfare, especially given your weight loss.
I thought of another question I have. I presume if he ever can be placed in ALF, MC or NH that they will not be serving alcoholic beverages especially at the rate of his consumption. Since alcohol is one of the few drugs that will cause death if it is immediately stopped, I wonder how they will handle that?????
Myrtle, I guess I have no way of knowing for sure if both doctors put things in the records or not. Everything was submitted in writing along with pictures of loaded guns all over the house, in the nightstand by the bed, pictures of the fence and my barn with bullet holes, pictures of my face bashed in, etc., etc. You would think they made it part of the records???
My understanding from the VA is that he does not qualify for any medical care from them because his income is too high. All the disability does is give him some tax free money and is deducted from his regular retirement check. That tax free money is what gave him the Moment of Brilliance to go into VA and do battle when they first rejected his claim. He is not about to have anyone take any of HIS money.
Unless someone can tell me differently, the doctors, law enforcement and attorneys keep telling me you can't force anyone into alcohol treatment against their will unless they have committed a crime while under the influence.
I am very concerned about the weight loss also and I get weaker all the time. I have a physical work load that would probably kill most 40 year old women and it has become more and more as he does less and less. I was exhausted when I got inside yesterday and he was on the warpath that his house was dirty. I managed to get everything cleaned up (mostly his messes) just to stop the battle so I could get a little bit of sleep.
No, bluedaze, that won't work. He is not a sweets eater. Probably because there is so much sugar in alcohol. I wish it was that simple though. If I thought I would live through hiding all the booze, I'm sure I could bribe him with a drink!!
InJail, I don't know about your state, but in Florida family can seek involuntary commitment and stabilization if " a person has lost the power of self-control with respect to substance abuse, and that they’re likely to inflict harm upon themselves or other people unless they get help". You can read more at http://www.treatmentsolutions.com/marchman-act/.
Thanks Gourdchipper. I think it was you that told me about that law in Florida last year. We do not have such a law here. They force them on a supervised alcohol cessation program if it is driving/drinking offense for the third time. Screwed up state - even marijuana is legal for recreational use.
Will he eat apples? they will clean teeth some when you eat them.
Do you have another bedroom? I would set it up, put a good lock on the door, maybe have a chair to put under the nob. If he starts in - call the police. If the police don't like it, too bad. If they come and he gets combative they may take him in.
Charlotte, I'm a little hesitant to lock him out of anywhere in the house since the last time I called the Sheriff I was the one arrested for locking him out of the house even though they could clearly see he used a ladder and a pry bar to tear a window out of the house. The deputy informed me "you can't lock a man out of his own house - that is against the law".
In between running in here to check this site, I'm smuggling a sleeping bag, blankets, etc. out to the tack room in the barn. I can lock that from the inside and I can lock the whole barn down from the inside. It may get a little crispy if we get more below zero weather but if he tears the barn apart to get in that will be 911 call time. The biggest problem calling law enforcement is the ridiculous response time since they only have one deputy working at a time for a 500 square mile area. My best bet is to wait until he goes to sleep, move one of the cars out of sight and hope he thinks I just left. I'll have to hide the car on the property since he has a driveway alarm that goes off if anyone goes in or out of the driveway.
Thanks for the apple hint - not a fruit eater either.
injail, the only way to equate any of what the members here are saying is to try to implement some of the techniques that may work. you keep saying that Ativan cant be given unless he stops drinking. and you cant get the alcohol out of the house. it would appear its a vicious circle you are living. one thing is certain then, you should go ahead and apply for guardianship and get this ball rolling thru the courts to ensure your safety, his, and get him under control. if this is impossible as well, as all appears to be on your end, then you should probably advise the dr who handles his case and adult protective services that you are unable to care for him under these drastic circumstances and say you are going to leave for your own safety. especially if you say you still have weapons on the premises. nothing is impossible to handle if you take the right recourse. if me, I would contact an atty about legal guardianship asap, and find a way to remove the alcohol and feed him the Ativan to get him compliant. MANY of us have done this prior to your circumstances trying to deal with combative spouses. if you are truly fearful for your life then you should move forward with the guardianship and have him committed to a geripsyche unit for control. either one or the other has to get done, weapons gone, alcohol gone and medications administered. pronto. or go the guardianship route to gain control over his and your safety. I have said before if you cant get help from the rural area you are in go to the largest city close and get some answers from higher ups. none of us here want to see you in distress when things go wrong, and they will sooner or later without intervention. rwhen AD goes beserk, there is no control as most of us know. I just cant accept there is no recourse for your situation, but we here all want your safety to be first and foremost. protect yourself from harm and this means taking the corrective steps to ensure it happens. I certainly hope you find a way to find some answers soon. divvi* and ps you should document his behavior and his personal appearance and keep a diary of any threatening actions!
at any rate from your other post having a 'non practicing' brother who is an atty.... he should be well qualified to get you the info and help for a guardianship.
I believe it was Dr. Eric Berne who had written a book back in 1964 entitled "Games People Play", and one chapter was devoted to a game he called "Why don't you, Yes but". The "Yes butter" won when he had "Yes butted" every positive suggestion that anyone was able to advance, and his payoff was the silence that followed.
All good and appreciated advice divvi. Don't forget that immediate cessation on alcohol with an over 50 year heavy drinker is one of the few drugs that can cause death if they are not weaned down slowly. My circumstances would not allow me to wean him down slowly. Even if I got the booze out of here he is still more than capable of getting in his truck and buying more. In fact a year ago his brother did remove about $400 worth which Mr. Hostile just went out and replaced and now brother has a freebee well stocked liquor cabinet.
As much as I dread the outcome, it would seem the Elder Care Attorney's advice to get a divorce is the best solution. I would need to immediately relocate to some safe place and I appreciate your suggestion to notify the doctors and Adult Protective Services that I left for my safety. I won't look for any funds out of the real estate if I'm not here because he will let it run down or burn it down since he leaves the stove on regularly.
One other glitch in this situation is that his doctors insist he is still in very early stages of AD. He and his Neurologist had quite a buddy talk at the last appointment and when Mr. Hostile told him he only has a few drinks at night (total lie and I produced credit card bill copies to show the purchase amounts each month), the doc says well he has two or three drinks at night also. The Neuro did say that he thought the things I have been concerned about were just from Mr. Hostile's basic personality and nothing to do with AD. He initimated that I just had to learn not to fire his temper off. His medical coding has dropped from dementia with behavior issues to Memory Loss of undiagnosed nature since Mr. Hostile jumped in the doc's face about a dementia code that could have legal effects on his driving privileges.
IMHO I think they are all scared of him and dropping the whole messy situation on my lap or waiting for me to just run for my life probably hoping they can stay on good terms with him and eventually he'll forget how to get there.
I appreciate all of you today and I think I just needed to dump the computer to people who understood. I will start the wheels in motion to abandon the sinking ship.
start watering down ALL his alcohol when hes not looking to 'wean'.---- so be it ---if it were me in this situation, I would not really care much if removing the booze did him in... sigh. it is what it is. but that's just me. ok, I am done here, hope you find recourse.
In Jail, you really need to get yourself somewhere safe. And if he can't do the animal chores, when you leave, make a call to the ASPCA and let them know that there are animals that are going to need monitoring or rescuing. By staying in that situation, you are only shoring up a shaky care plan…enabling him to keep on with all his behaviors. You are going to end up dead, and how is that going to help him? Get yourself out of there, and if he cannot manage, others will have to step up to the plate. You are not abandoning him if you make phone calls to his doctor and perhaps to your county's Adult Protective Services and tell them the situation, and why you are getting out of Dodge.
Divvi I did try watering it down last year. When they drink $60 a bottle single malt they know immediately that it has been tampered with.
I think you posted before my last post came up.
Enough is enough - after having enough courage to put this all in writing and re-reading it and thanks to all of your help - I will put things in motion to end this nightmare and file for a divorce.
Beep beep…no, I don't think Wolf was talking about somebody like you, InJail, when he called that runaway wife a beep beep roadrunner spouse. You are one tough cookie--definitely not the running away type. You need to make a strategic retreat to live to fight another day. That's a different scenario.
Hi InJail, Since recreational use of marijuana is legal in your state, you are either in Colorado or Washington. Both states provide for domestic restraining orders, protective orders, etc., that order a physically abusive spouse to leave the property. You have more than enough grounds. (I think that in any state, the hair-dragging incident alone would justify such an order. You certainly don't have to prove either dementia or alcoholism.) Such an order would also make it unlawful for him to possess firearms. After he is off the property, you could remove his driveway alarm and put in your own security system. You could also remove his guns.
I’m sure there is flaw in this plan - every plan has a flaw - but it's worth running by a domestic abuse agency that could recommend a lawyer who would not throw his hands up at the whole situation, as you say the elder law attorney did.
I really hope you are able to protect yourself and at the same time maintain a decent standard of living. We can all make suggestions but we are not there with you and don't know the details of what you are dealing with. You need someone on your side who understands the local courts and law enforcement agencies.
Does he know he can't have sex? Does he think he has had it the night before? If so, promise sex and tell him the next day it was wonderful.
More seriously, I am going one what others have done. Sometimes a treat (chocolate) or anything they normally don't have but desire. I realize that your husband might be too able to bribe, since he just goes out and buys booze if you run out.
If the doctor indicates that his hygiene is your fault, let the doctor know that you've been told that his dx is early Alz and the doctor insisted that this is his personality so you can't do anything. It can't be your fault if the effects of Alz can't be blamed for other issues.
I say don't try to do anything and let the doctor sees him as he really is. Perhaps the doctor will agree that your husband is worse off than the doctor has admitted. Also, try to talk to doctors without your husband, they may humor him on some subjects but it might not be the doctor's true feelings. Or if it is, you know you have a doctor problem.
As to divorce. You must protect yourself and your animals. Physically, mentally and financially. Let the doctors know this, and if it is just your husband's personality then they should not find any blame in your actions. If they say your husband can't live on his own, then challenge the dx that it is just early dx.
After reading all your posts here, his hygiene is certainly the least of your problems. Just put some Vicks above your upper lip when you are near him and that will mask his odors.
After all you have endured over the years with your husband, I am sure it is very difficult for you to walk/run away. Then, there are the animals that you care so much about. While I applaud your dedication, I am so worried about your welfare. However,I wouldn't even begin to know how to advise you as to what to do to help yourself. Many of the suggestions made here sound reasonable to me, but then I'm not you.
I am writing just to let you know that I am thinking about you and will keep you in my prayers. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
My advise, first and foremost, is get out now while you still can. And I am just gonna say it....make sure you have a weapon in your possession to protect yourself. I understand that it could be taken from you and then used on you. But, you sound pretty adept to me to be able to use a firearm. I have concealed carry...don't let him attack you again without being able to protect yourself. Even if you get a restraining order, it does not assure your safety. It is just a piece of paper and with his illness it will mean nothing to him! Take a concealed carry class!
I'm beginning to realize that the matters discussed on this and related threads have very little to do with dementia. The dementia suffered by InJail's husband seems to be just the latest wrinkle in a 30-year course of domestic violence and alcoholism. Although I have some peripheral knowledge that might pertain to domestic violence (e.g., domestic restraining orders), and other people have knowledge in similar areas (e.g., firearm permits, animal welfare, weaning someone off alcohol, etc.), I don't think our experience as Alzheimer's spouses qualifies us to give advice that is going to be very helpful to InJail. I think there are other people on other websites that have far more expertise in this area.
I agree with Moon* and wish InJail the best in getting out of this nightmare.
Ok stop dealing with the sheriffs deputies. Go make an appointment with the SHERRIFF himself or herself. This is spousal abuse. STOP putting up with it. Move out of the house. Call 911 and have an ambulance take him to the hospital. tell them the truth, he has mental and violence issues. This is not a laughing matter. They can have him sent to the hosptial for eval. The VA will also act if you let someone at the VA clinic where you take him know that he is abusing you. You must say that you fear he will hurt himself or someone else. they are obligated by federal law to act on this information. you must leave this house immediately. I do not want to read about you in the newspaper. Act now, stop pussy-footing around.
Myrtle, I agree with you that these problems may not be dementia related and our experience does not qualify us to give advice. On the other thread I suggested that InJail contact the National Domestic Abuse Hotline (1-800-SAFE (7233)).
The professionals (sheriff, doctors, etc) have probably urged InJail to leave and there isn't much they can do as long as she stays in the abusive relationship.
He does not get treatment at the VA because their income is too high. She is in the process of applying for some type of disability I think.
He is an alcoholic. Alcoholics can be nice or nasty. My dad was an alcoholic and even though he quit drinking in the 40s, when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s he was a mean dry alcoholic to me, no one else. There is also dementia that is caused by damage done to the brain with long alcohol use and I am assuming this is the cause of it. But most of his mean, nasty, abusive behavior is from the alcohol. He has evidently been this way for most of their married life, so it seems to be his nature too.
You are right Myrtle that this has little to do with AD and more with his alcohol. Many of us have not experienced this but there are spouses here that have also dealt with abusive and/or alcoholic spouses. They can give her the best first hand experience where the rest of us can only pray she gets out of this nightmare safely.
I posted this on your other thread on July 3, 2014:
"InJail,
I am sorry for all you are going through.
In some communities, the District Attorney's office has active resources for abused family members. I think these offices are usually at the County level. You mentioned you are in a very rural area- maybe they are statewide or regional where you are located. Law schools also often offer referrals and sometimes sponsor direct services. You mentioned you are 70. These resources may be free of direct charge to you.
There are many equine rescue groups and sanctuaries and many if not most are in rural areas. Charitynavigator.org is one source of who and where.
Could the gun situation come under any jurisdiction other than your sheriff? Is federal involvement, such as ATF a possibility?
Please act as quickly as you can!
Edited by me to add information about equine sanctuaries. I was just on sanctuaryfederation.org. It was what I was thinking of when I initially posted on your topic. It has a good list of accredited sanctuaries. HTH"
I realize many of these points have already been discussed and you have been given good advice and understanding. Another poster here, myrtle, recently observed that you are likely living in Colorado or Washington. I googled and found that there are at least ten equine rescue groups in Colorado. They are mostly along the Denver/1-25 corridor, starting at the Boulder area and going south. A couple are near Pagosa Springs and Pueblo. In Washington, a consortium of rescue agencies is located at www.RescueShelter.com. I hope that these state resources along with sanctuaryfederation.org may be helpful to you, even if you cannot remain in your location.
I too have thought about her and wondered, she was writing often and now nothing for several days. Hope she is ok and we hear from her soon. I looked up her profile and last contact was Mar 7th.
Maybe she was just overwhelmed. I noticed in her last post, she wished us all well and thanked us for our advise over the last year. Possibly she doesn't plan on posting any longer. Hopefully she is ok.
Early this month, at the same time that this thread was active, the same issues were being discussed on another thread called, "Spouse of Newly Diagnosed AD Spouse." Charlotte posted a note on that thread, telling InJail she could call Charlotte directly to talk about these problems.
InJail, If you are still reading these comments and if you have not done so already, please consider taking Charlotte up on her offer. She has been through a lot of tough experiences herself and seems to know how to make smart decisions in difficult situations. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best.
Could it be a possibility that Injail IS in a safe place & either can't or wouldn't dare to contact anyone under the circumstances? Or maybe her computer has been "confiscated" so to speak....
Enough is enough - after having enough courage to put this all in writing and re-reading it and thanks to all of your help - I will put things in motion to end this nightmare and file for a divorce.
Beep, beep Wolf. I don't see any other choice.
I will get all the animals to safety Elizabeth.
Thank you to all again for the help, support and advice the last year. My best wishes to all of you.
.....
Those were her last comments on March 07. She would never file for divorce staying where she is. She would have to move to somewhere else first. She wouldn't take her computer if it was a desktop (because she's not visibly packing) or she may be in a place that she hasn't hooked up for her use. It sounds like she knew she was going to be away from the computer for a while.
Because of her 77 posts in about six months I think, she's well out of her rhythm. It sounds to me like she may have taken action on what she said and knows that with a pathetic excuse for a male like that, you don't leave a forwarding address.
The beep beep reference that she has no choice and enough is enough is likely what that abysmal human being drove her to finally face.
If InJail left her desktop then we can help by not divulging anything we know here in any details because it's easy to access what other users have accessed, password or not.
We can also help by reminding InJail she can sign up with a new name and talk to us. She shouldn't make her new email address visible. She can also write to Joan where the address is in the contributions sticky and reach us that way. We want to help keep her safe.
We hope you're doing ok. I know you can access this site from any internet cafe or most phones. This is part of your journey in dementia and we still want you to post if you do. Doing this doesn't mean you're not part of us anymore. You are part of us.
There is no ability to trace where you are when you post. I just checked and your email address isn't visible anyway. Leave it that way not to be contacted.
.....
Occam's razor - when two or more plausible answers exist to a problem, the simplest answer is likely the most probable.
InJail wouldn't have changed her mind and stopped posting anyway but she has stopped posting and she clearly said what she intended to do. It's most likely she went somewhere and I believe she understood it would be best to be underground. If she did leave she has to get her feet on the ground somewhere and that takes time.
It's unlikely there was violence which is our worry. It's more likely she planned this and then made up her mind to get out of jail by making a jail break. We all hope that is true. What a world.