I would be interested in hearing comments from both sexes regarding if they think it is possible for a man and woman in their 60's-70's to be just friends without it leading to sex. I am alone and lonely and would like to have a male friend to go out to eat with, maybe to a movie without any sexual overtones in the relationship. Does anyone think that is possible? And if such a person were to be found, does one spell this out at the beginning of the friendship or wait to see what developes?
I have avoided getting friendly with other women, even though my wife is entering stage 7 of AD. It would be easy to do: just look at seniorfriendfinder.com for example. If the man and woman like each other even a little, things can get serious very quickly and shazzam: A lovers triangle!
Go to the home page of this website - www.thealzheimerspouse.com - and click on "Previous Blogs" on the left side. Scroll down to #166- "An Unconventional Solution for the Disappearing Conversation" , and read about what one of our readers did for her loneliness. I am NOT ADVOCATING ANYTHING - I just allow people to express their opinions in a respectful manner.
I guess I am not lonely enough to even take the chance anytime of getting involved in something that would require potential nursing duties. I'd rather sit at home and read a book!
This platonic relationship, if one could be found, would not lead to potential nursing duties! Not going through that again, ever! As to reading, I already do-over 110 books a year! It is easy to sit in front of the computer and think up "what if" scenarios but more difficult to carry them out. I think I'll just get another dog to talk with. Thanks for the input. And Joan thanks for directing me to #166. That online friendship doesn't appeal. I want to get out of the house-so I'll just keep on walking the dog.
After my husband has gone, I would like to go on cruises with a male friend - as long as we had our own cabins, and it was friendship only. Getting to see some of the world and not by myself or with my kids. But that is way down the road.
I think it is more possible for a woman to have a friendship than a man with the opposite sex. You men correct me if I'm wrong, but science has proven men's brains are wired differently. I think, don't know for sure, but a man (unless impotent) will probably want more if the connection strengthens. Don't think you can have your cake & eat it too. If you just want companionship & conversation, go with a girl friend. Dinners & movies with a man are usually called "dates." A man in his 60/70's may be older, but he's not dead. He's still a man. You might spell it out in the beginning, but men just seem to have a way to try to get what they really want. <wink> This is just an opinion.
Sandy, when I was in my twenties, I had a strictly platonic relationship with a man with whom I worked. My first husband was gone for the summer, doing an internship, and this friend and I went to the movies etc., never a problem at all. Nice guy, I liked him, but he did not appeal to me at ALL "that way". As far as how he felt, sometimes I thought maybe he was gay, sometimes I thought maybe he was "interested" but too shy or insecure to say anything, sometimes I thought he just wasn't interested in dating and was happy to have a platonic friend to pal around with. Never did come to a conclusion about that.
Anyway, yeah, I think it's possible. But if you do NOT want to develop a romantic relationship, you absolutely should spell that out at the very beginning; and if it appears later on that his feelings about the relationship are starting to change, talk it over, and stop seeing him if he can't abide by the ground rules.
If you just want to get out of the house and have a good time, and you're certain you don't want a romantic involvement, why not find some women with interests that match yours? (Or do you want someone who'll deal with the furry/scaly varmints and spiders for you... ? :-)
Kitty, there is friendship and there is FRIENDSHIP...<grin>..I would prefer to have my own space to relax and sleep and don't want a future commitment (that might lead to nursing). But these are my future plans, many years from now...I told you that I like to plan ahead! <grin>
I live in a 55 plus community. Too many widows developed male attachments who became ill. His family was delighted for the woman to care for their father as long as their was no financial issue. As soon as money was brought up they were jumping on the poor women with booth feet.
Well, my husband has only been dead for four months, but I was a "widow" for many years and have done quite well on my own. I have no desire to share my life, my independence or my money with another man. I like being able to make my own decisions, from big ones like whether to buy a new house to the smallest....shall I have breakfast for dinner? I have a group of friends all over the country that I met online many years ago when we were all dealing with EOAD spouses. We travel together, visit each other's homes and families and that provides me with companions. I am close with my two children and we do lots of things together so I have no need for a male in my life. I have nothing against men, but I don't want to have to take care of anyone else ever again...male or female....too much!
But, that being said, I do think you can have a platonic relationship if all parties involved agree to that situation. Now, if the relationship changes then you can always become "friends with benefits"....! <VBG>
When we were young, my DH was adamant that men/woman could not have a platonic relationship, and I have come to agree with him. The exceptions could be medical, specific beliefs, maybe just being very unattractive, etc. You are not talking about marriage so you don't have to be concerned about taking care of someone again.
As others have said, if you are lonely, go out with women. But I know what you mean about going out w/a man, even if platonic. I missed the male/female thing--not just the sex--I always have a special feelilng when I'm with men. Men & women treat each other in different ways. Thankfully I don't need anyone to do things for me, but men--even close relatives--will open doors to let me pass thru first, take a heavy package from my hands, etc.
As for spelling it out in advance--if you tell 'no sex' to an otherwise virile, interested man, he's going to go find someone else to take to the movies. Am I wrong, guys? Movies are very romantic events--sitting close thigh to thigh in the dark for a couple hours, sharing popcorn, watching people thrash around in bed, or even stimulating blow-em-up stuff gets the juices flowing.
I never criticize anyone for whatever they do to get thru AD. We all have our own attitudes and AD will change those attitudes when we least expect it. There are men on dating services that say they just want companionship, others are up-front and say otherwise. Who knows what they've been thru. Anything is possible, and if you find a man to just go out with, then you're way ahead of the game--there's nothing wrong with it.
I have my SIL who is justin this scenario. she lost her husbnd last yr and started a platonic relationship with a highschool friend. they agreed friends only. its been a yr and its moved into another phase which she didnt want. he is in love, she is not. he was a widow 4yr and wants toremarry now. its hard i believe not to move into a romantic mode if you are comfortable and enjoy ones company . theirs started out just as they said but moved into something more and now the heartache of her severing the relationshop all together as he doesnt just want to be friends anymore. its difficult. inmy case i would want to have both male and female friends, but not remarry i couldnt fathom being a caregiver again to anyone. divvi
In my city there are "meet up" groups. If you google meet up groups + name of city, see if you get results. Here they have those for just about every interest imaginable. There are wine tasting groups, dining out groups, movie going groups, book reading groups and some really out there groups. If those are available, it would be a way to mix & mingle in a group, you would get to talk to men. There's just something about a conversation with a nice man that puts a smile on a woman's face.
I haven't tried it, should have. Just to be out with people is nice. I imagine if you find one you like, you gradually get to know the members.
I met Hank one week after my spouse deceased of cancer. We both used the same Hospice grief group. I was 56 at the time with a lot more energy than I have these days. We immediately had the juices flowing and I am not sorry because I have a special love in this marriage. BUT - I can't imagine doing this again. I had a friend who dated a fellow who ended up wanting to marry. She was not interested. He committed suicide. It was horrible. We talked and talked to help her lift her deep feeling of guilt.
Years ago I had several purely platonic male-female friendships with men at work. In a couple of cases the friendships were pretty close ones. We were friends and nothing else.
Personally, I'd find a group, like the meet-up groups mentioned, that had both men and women in them if I needed face to face conversations.
Like Mary, I can't see myself ever doing this again. And at my age (67) the likelihood that one or both of us would get ill is more likely than not. But I do like people.
it is very hard for a man to just be friends with a woman and nothing else involved. years ago,i had male friends that i thought the world of and had a wonderful time with them,no sex was involved,i just wanted to be friends,but one or the other would always ruin it. they would fall in love,or so they thought,and then i didn't want to be around them anymore because it made me feel so guilty. i think it is just something about the unatainable that makes them think more of you. i would watch out about a relationship like that,it can turn sour and make you feel bad,and you don't need that,after all you have been through, although i had a very wonderful friend in one of my roommate's boyfriends. he was great. i just loved him to death. we could go to the beach and anywhere,and he never tried anything. he was like a brother to me. years later, he came out of the closet and told his wife he was gay. that would he a way to have male companionship and not have to worry about them getting the wrong idea,but i don't know how you feel about that kind of friendship. jav
I do know it IS possible. I have had a strictly platonic relationship with a guy since our high school days! He is very handsome, and not gay. Whenever we see each other he still throws me up into his arms and spins me around in a big bear hug. We do love each other, but it is different. I think of him as a brother and best friend rolled into one.
I KNOW it is possible, because I am in such a relationship. My husband has been in a care home for over a year and doesn't know who I am. 6 months ago, this man from my church started calling me. We still talk on the telephone A LOT, but also go places and out to eat. We care very deeply for each other and when this is over with my husband, plan to have a life together.
But right now is not our time for anything but friendship. We are each other's best friend and love each other dearly. To keep sex out of things, we are careful about certain topics we talk about, I am careful about the clothes I wear, etc. He comes over to my house and we REALLY careful there. It is a conscious decision to keep things "cool". I know we will be happier for our decision.
But you BOTH have to want this, because if one of you wants the relationship to go further, it makes it much harder! Good luck.
I would require HIV and other sexually transmitted disease test - numerous times - before ever considering having a sexual relationship with another man.
well I see none of the other men have added to this discussion so let me be the first to say I too would not want to go thru this with another woman,now for the sex part I believe most of you have it nailed,a man that has been in this situation for any length of time unless he's unable to have sex will most certainly be looking for it,past experience(from many years ago)also tells me that the old axiom seek an ye shall find is also true in this regard,reminds me of my brother-in-laws personalized license plate SWSWSW when I asked him what it meant he said Some will Some won't So what lol
ol don, this “friendship between a man and woman” thread was active when I first started following the Spouse forum back in early December, and I was tempted to weigh in on the subject then, but I guess I didn’t feel that I knew all the folks well enough.
I’m living proof that it is, indeed, possible to have such a friendship. I’ve been a party to such a friendship where we’ve been “second best sweethearts” for fifty something years and counting, with a spoken pact between us that we’d like to be together if the time ever came when families were no longer a consideration. She was my wife’s best friend and her husband was my best friend as we were partying and raising kids together back in the 50s, and we’ve remained close through all the years since that time, through good times and a few bad times. She’s now a widow, following the death of her husband three years ago, and it looks like I’m destined to become a widower one of these days too, so when that time comes, we may be able to follow through on that pact (if we both live long enough, etc.) For the past few months we’ve been going out together about once a week – lunches sometimes, other times maybe dinner and a movie or musical performance or whatever. We do show affection through warm hugs and kisses on greeting and parting, and sometimes at tender moments in between, plus lots of hand holding, but we’re both committed to not crossing the line, out of a sense of decency, which has served us well these fifty years. I’d probably be lying if I said that the question of sex doesn’t enter into our thoughts – we had a few steamy petting sessions back in our younger days -- but at this point it’s something to look forward to if and when we’re finally able to be together (and if we both haven’t forgotten how, etc.).
I have a similar friend of 55 years. Her husband was the "brother I never had". Our families were very close, doing a lot of travel and camping. Our kids are still close. He died a few years ago. She still visits us 2-3 times a year, but more intensive contact is not possible since she lives in Rhode Island - 7 hours drive from me. I have considered asking her to join me on trips, etc. when the time comes, but doubt it will be any more than that. I have not discussed this with her.
Gourdchipper,funny you should chime in with that story about old dear friend,I too had a friend such as that ,the first girl I ever kissed,we both got married an went our separate ways an a few years ago she called me out of the blue,we talked weekly an then about a year ago I heard nothing,last week her sister called me an told me she had died thursday of cancer,some things just arn't meant to be I guess,but the what ifs will always be there
A friend just told me about her aunt who went to her 60th class reunion. A man came up and asked her if she recognized him. She didn't -- but he told her he had always had a crush on her all through high school. They discovered that both of their spouses had AD. They started seeing each other, and 5 years later, at age 83, after both spouses died, they married.
TexasJoe, brought this thread up to the top for you.
Thanks, Shanteuse, I look forward to reading it. Right now, I have to get DW up and fed. Funny this came up, 'cause earlier, I wanted to get a little booby time, and she said "don't...your not my husband". So I am thinking - if I am not her husband, then she is not my wife, and so why am I here doing all this caregiving? Something to think about.
Well, I've read all the comments, and found it to be really interesting stuff. My conclusions: we ARE wired differently; friends with benefits is the way to go; no marriage, therefore avoiding the future care concerns (just walk away), and finally, if either one starts the falling in love business, break it off before it gets to difficult to do (easier said than done, but it HAS to happen unless BOTH start loving at the same time).
Texas Joe, you've made some good points and given me lots to think about. Really sorry to admit that I agree with much of what you say. I guess I've reached the "Post-Romantic" stage - liked it better when I had stars in my eyes and songs in my ears!
If you are looking for companionship, you need to be looking for COMPANIONSHIP. I don't know a lot of women over 30 who are just looking for the physical side. The physical may (probably) will follow if the affection is there. And if you want to break it off if "either one starts the falling in love business" -- well, I don't think you're going to get either the companionship or the physical if you run screaming in the opposite direction if she starts caring for you. You've said here that you fear rejection -- there's no better way to guarantee rejection than to make women think all you want is physical stuff. I think you can find a woman who understands your situation, and who will be willing to be a companion, but NOT if she feels that what you are looking for is just "any" woman, and it doesn't matter much who.
I'm not saying you need to marry again eventually, or even think about marriage, especially with what you've had to go through as a caregiver -- but no one that you'd want to be with is going to want to feel like she's just a convenience for you. If it's friends with benefits, make sure it's FRIENDS, with benefits.
And of course I could be wrong. What works for some people doesn't work for others. I just know I'd be mighty uncomfortable if I thought that my male companion didn't really care that it was ME he was with.
I just don't think you can predict what will or will not happen. Even if "pacts" are made at the beginning, I've found that things just never (or rarely) go the way you plan. I consider myself a young person...54. I'll loose my husband (80) some time soon, I know. Tried going out with a couple of guys over the last few months....needed some companionship so badly, I thought. DID find out that when you don't "come across", they stop calling. huh. I know that someday I will want a partner, not just a companion for fun dates. But, first, I want to reinvent myself, maybe finish my education, find out who I am WITHOUT a man in my life once that happens and once I'm alone for a while. I still think about sex. Hope I haven't forgotten how.
I think the key word here is FRIENDS, with or without benefits. First, you have to have the reasons for being friends, like common interests, personality, integrity, compassion, etc. That defines the friends part of it. Then, if you agree to the benefits part of it, it will be because of a mutual attraction that would make you want to share intimacy with this person. But that is still not love. I'm saying, one-sided love that may ensue is painful and should be stopped before it goes to far. If BOTH feel this love, then great! And nobody is going to feel they are being used for physical purposes only if they are FRIENDS and continue to act as such. Did I muddy the water some more, or did I make myself clear?
Mary75, I know what you mean...when we were dating for those 6 weeks before I proposed, she said I "made the lights blink" when I kissed her. Have to admit, we were really good at it!
This is a conversation most women would shy from. Shanteuse gave an accurate opinion of how women would view and interpret your plan. i know not one woman that would enter into this relationship with any expectations other than as just plain ordinary friends and nothing else. many women prefer going out with their female friends for the type of relationship you are mentioning rather than a male friend. i really wouldnt care to go out with a male friend unless i was interested in him as a possible companion and would look for female friends until that happened. esp a married one with all the added personal issues. on the other hand, i am positive that my DH- were the shoe on the other foot and he was the caregiver, would have placed me in the most magnificient facility he could find and pay for it hand and foot for my duration. but he would not remain celibate and would seek companionship like you gentlemen are doing. its a given. and i would want him to pursue that, and continue living and loving life. we are wired differently and most of us women will see our caregiving days out without male companionship for the duration. later who knows. divvi
Yikes! I give up. I'm too tired for all this anyway. I don't want to go through high school again. Guess I'll just be a celibate and bitter lonely old man and do like I said before....eat red meat and ice cream, do my gardening w/o any OFF on, and work out till I drop.
Aw, c'mon, T-Joe, no one is saying you have to be lonely -- just saying, when you feel that the time is right to be seeing someone again, and you find the appropriate woman, remember that SHE has to feel that she's being treated in a way that makes it a worthwhile relationship for her too. It's not so easy for a woman to be involved with a man in this situation, especially because a lot of people do NOT understand what Alz is really like, and will view her as a "scarlet woman" for being involved with a "married" man. Nevertheless, I think that your chances of finding an appropriate partner are high -- the demographics in this age group are on your side, many more available women than available men, and the fact that you have stuck by your wife in this terrible illness should be a big plus to a woman who understands the importance of loyalty.
A relationship in this situation is anything but "high school." The right person for you will understand the situation and will value your commitment to your wife.
By the way, an 89 year old man I know has had a long-term relationship after his wife died, with a younger woman -- she's 84. They've both enjoyed each other's company for years and spend a lot of time together, but have not married because of various financial ramifications and also I think she fears being a caregiver. It IS possible to find someone and since you seem motivated to do so, I think you will find someone.
ps texas joe, my SIL widowed now 2 yrs this july went to her 50th class reunion last aug with a girlfriend much to her reluctance. met up with a male high school friend same age as her and they have been dating since then non stop. he proposed a month ago but she says she needs time to make sure shes over the bonds with her deceased spouse but its a full swing love affair in the best sense. they are both 69yrs old, and both have lots of health issues-he lost his wife to cancer and was caregivr for 4yrs, she was caregiver to my BIL for 2yrs with CHF and dialysis daily... it IS possible to find love again. shes proof and was never looking for it it just happened. divvi
It may not matter anyway..I've lost about 2 inches on my waist over the last 3 months, so I'm probably dying. I will see my pcp before too long if I continue to lose more weight and trying to eat more doesn't help. I feel fine, just skinny. Thanks for the encouragement. Joe