I've been on these boards for almost a year now, and something has occurred to me. Several of the male members have mentioned relationships with the opposite sex during/after their caregiving role; I don't recall any of the women posting anything about doing this successfully. Is it that women are less apt to talk about it publicly, or that it doesn't happen for whatever reason? We certainly are open about everything else!
Not me -- when would I have the time and opportunity even if I wanted to become involved with somebody else -- which I don't. No time, no leisure to even contemplate it. But perhaps I am fortunate: my DH is still at home, still likes to cuddle, still enjoys going out and doing things together.
Possible explanation, Marilynn: I THINK (but you guys can correct me if I'm wrong) that men are more in need of female companionship than we are in need of male companionship.
Constraints ladies: I would love to have some female conpanionship (not intimacy). I need a nice lady to talk to. Maybe at my age, I still miss my Mother (just kidding). Anyhow, where I live and the way people think, including family, I would be drawn and pillaried and would have to walk the plank. They don't condone such behaviour. Narrow minded, etc. Just an innocent cup of coffee would be 'the appearance of evil'.
Sounds like the Harper Valley PTA, doesn't it? Hope no one else knows such suspicous, judgemental, hypocritical people. If not, you are lucky.
Marilyn...really good question. I hope you get a good response because I've been curious also. I'm sure everyone has a stong opinion about what is right FOR THEM without judging others. A couple of friends and even Johns own daughter have quietly let me know if I chose to have a friend, they would be okay with it. Never say never, but at this time the idea does not appeal to me for many reasons. I'm too consumed with emotional and financial struggles to have an interest. Then there's that whole wedding vows thing. However, (lol) yesterday in the grocery store a nice looking 50 something guy walked past me wearing a wonderful cologne. and an involuntary ummm flew out of my mouth!! Geeze, where did that come from? I guess I not as immune as I thought I was. Thanks for staring this thread. xox cs
There have been two women whose husbands have now passed on that admitted to having a male friend to talk to and have coffee with before their husbands died, but their husbands were either bedbound or in the DH for many years....I honestly can't remember the details now.
Living in a 55 plus park ,I've seen quite a few pass away. It's absolutely amazing how quick the guys have another woman. I just don't think guys can handle being alone. The widows seem perfectly content . They have all cooked, cleaned, etc for a man for years. Now they're probably happy to just do what ever they want.
I going to go out on a limb here, but I think the main difference is physical contact. I believe women just don't need men (even to make babies, now), for whatever reason..hormones, dna differences..they are just as happy with another female friend to talk with, get support, etc., whereas men (hormones, again) need to feel the physical closeness of a female, whether it's for comfort or satisfaction. IMHO.
Jeanette--My thoughts echo yours--there's still enough of my husband left at this point that I'm not lonely. Add to that, taking care of my Dad, our home, finances, driving him to daycare 2 days/week, not much leisure time, etc., etc. Yet, the men have huge responsibilities to handle too--but there does seem to be a different mindset.
Mary--Talking and coffee are one thing, but the male outlook seems to be about much more than that!
Although I don't think I have expressed an opinion or brought this up for discussion, my message board monitor and I have discussed this many times between ourselves. I think Carolyn hit the nail on the head. Women have cared for EVERYONE all their lives, and when they find themselves out of the "caregiving role", for the first time in their lives, they can concentrate on THEMSELVES and what they want. No one to answer to.
That is not to say that women are not lonely and do not seek companionship, but I think for a woman, living with, or marrying a man, means "taking care" of him. Cooking, cleaning, making all the social arrangements, watching out for his health. After decades of that, many women say - "Been there; done that; no thanks."
I don't mean to sound crass, but I think that's why you hear so much about "cougars" nowadays. A woman can have some pleasure with a man ( a good looking young one who is able to accomplish what she needs), and then she can go about her life with no ties.
As for companionship while still caregiving - I agree that most women are too worn out and exhausted.
I just crave adult conversation, whether male or female. At this time it is difficult to have a conversation with DH. I try to talk about the news, current events, books, movies, but the conversation takes weird turns. I feel somewhat isolated and lonely. If we are in a group I am constantly explaining things to DH. With my kids we talk about their dad. I would love to be in a group or with another adult carrying on a conversation, not necessarily about AD. So many friends, relaives have health problems that the conversation is medical.
Texas Joe: I think moorsb is only 70/75% correct. Shame on her for even thinking such thoughts. (haha).
maryd: You expressed my sentiments completely. I wonder how you could know my feelings so imtimately. Could be because we got to this place with similar experiences?
i kinda believe it may be like in the natural animal world. the lioness will not come into 'estress' (mating) again while she still has cubs to care for and that are dependant on her. its built in, dependent cubs, fiercely protective and no messing around! haah..
i tend to feel the same way, as far as i can see i still have a big cub at home to care and protect -and if a new male comes round he may get his butt kicked to timbucktoo before natural tendancies take control again:).
i dont have time or patience or enough mental energy at this point to even consider that option! divvi
Women are socialized to be more giving than men so they are a better deal. In the 1970s as married career women began to talk about resenting the double shift (career and housekeeping) there was a line that "Every American woman needs a husband and a wife."
I had fantasies around the time my DH was diagnosed of getting into a relationship with another woman. The woman I was attracted to wasn't interested and I realized my DH would be just as jealous of me having a relationship with a woman so it wouldn't have worked anyway. Now as I looked towards when I am on my own I don't think I would want to live with someone, but if I was interested in a relationship I would probably look for a woman. The odds are a lot better over 60 if you are looking for a woman than if you are looking for a man.
I am very lonely. Husband is 5ish, in terms of stage, but what made it a meaningful relationship to me--that part of him--is all gone. I think if he were a little more "out of it," then I would be given a pass and understanding by friends/family members if I had dinner here and there with a "friend." But, despite the blankness of his personality, and the utter lack of conversation, he is with me and needs my companionship, so it's a moot point for now. I notice other men, for sure. Alertness in their eyes, an ability to know what's going on, humor, kindness and wit...these are very appealing, sexy traits, and my radar is VERY sensitive these days. But I think that a good fit for me is a rare man indeed, and I may have found, enjoyed 20 years with, then lost the only one.
Maryl. Adult conversation. DH doesn't talk much anymore. I can almost count the words he says to me during the day. And, they are always the same words. I try to respond with enthusiasm but it's coming off pretty hollow. I don't think he realizes it. Also, when he does 'little things for me' i.e., putting dishes away. He asks every time where the plates go, where the glasses go. Even when there are other plates or glasses right there.
I invited a couple over for dinner last night. They were here about 2-1/2 hours. He didn't say more than a dozen words. When they left, I found I was almost groveling in my thanks to them for coming. The three of us talked and talked about everything. It was a wonderful visit.
After they left, DH asked who they were. When I told him their names, he said "Oh, I thought he'd died." That's it. Nothing else.
I don't think I'm really lonely. I think I'm just getting bored out of my mind.
So, I'm going to change clothes, grab a bite to eat and go outside and prune my roses. Hope I don't get too cold.
Boredom - and I think for BOTH of us - is really a main problem here. Better boredom than pain, though, I guess. I've always had a lot of male friends. FRIENDS. At the zoo I tend to hang out with the husbands instead of wives. My husband never minded. Nor did I mind his women friends at work. But I can't imagine having a "relationship" with anyone else. No, thank you!
I have given this topic some thought, but realize that I am NOT attracted to any of the females I know. My first date with my wife was at age 14, and I have not been interested in any other woman since then. I doubt very much that I could find another to take her place. I do enjoy conversation with both men and women.
I have always had really good men friends throughout my career and afterwards. I always worked with more men than women and I get along better with the men! If I needed any one of those men friends, they would be here in a heartbeat. We keep in touch and I know their families. Not talking about anything other than friendship. I don't have as many women friends who would be here for me though. They are more casual friends - not close.
Vickie, I am like you, only opposite. I have always gotten along with women better than men, but only as friends, and after being married. I don't want to talk about before marriage...can you say 'loser'? Anyway, sometimes I think maybe I am a woman trapped in a man's body...or maybe it's if I had a woman's body I'd have more fun?? (Wouldn't have to worry about having to date)..haha.
Most of us in our generation grew up NEVER calling a boy on the phone. We'd never ask a boy out on a date. We waited to be asked. That being said, I think that is why more men find lady friends 'after'. The women stay home and wait to be asked.
Just saw this thread and read it very quickly. I need to think about this subject a little more before I know what I want, or should, say. We have been married for 50 very good years but things are so different now. I even love the new Carol, in a very different way. Probably more what it should have been all along. I was probably a somewhat selfish husband. But now I am trule blue. AD has taught me a lot of life and love but I sure don't understand where I stand now. Got to gl but will try to post again tomorrow. bill
I have been thinking about this since I first read it the other day. I believe there are two ways of taking care of others. I think that most men, such as me, do the taking care of. My family is my life and everything I do is for my family. I would give my right arm if I could take this disease on myself and Kathryn not have to deal with it. I have always done all the cooking, she has always done all the laundry. We have both shared the house cleaning. I have always done the yard work. She would always buy the plants and I would always dig the hole. Did she always take care of me when I have been sick or had surgery? Yes. Did I always take care of her when she was sick or had surgery? Yes. I think the big difference is that what we are saying is taking care of in relation to the wife is really care giving. And they are better at it than most of us guys. And what we are saying is taking care of in relation to the husband is really providing for.
When I had my knee replaced last year Kathryn did her very best to take care of me (that is when I discovered she can’t make a sandwich either ). Kathryn is the best wife I could have ever hoped for. She loves me just as much as I love her. But when I was thinking about marrying her one of the things that played heavy on my mine was, that if anything ever happen to me, I wanted someone that would be able to take care of themselves after I was gone. She met that requirement with no problem and I wouldn’t trade her for anyone on God’s green earth.
Guess I am rattling again. I do that when I talk about Kathryn. Sorry. Just can’t help it I guess.
Anyhow, I did say what I meant to say. I hope you understand it the way I am trying to say it. I am not all that good at putting my words on paper.
Thank you all for everything, You are all the best, JimB
I met a woman a couple of years ago whose husband was about the same stage as mine was at the time. We got to talking (she was in her 70s at the time). One of the things that struck me about the conversation was how much she was enjoying "being in charge". Many of her comments centered around how she liked handling the money and making the decisions. She also stated that she had not intention of looking for anyone else after he went.
I thought about her statements afterwards and realized that they had not been partners on an equal footing but he had been the one in charge. I don't feel the same way. I have worked hard all my life, earned and paid my own way and am proud of that fact. In many ways my husband was also my partner. He liked to think he was boss and I often let him think so until I put my foot down.
OK--- I am not really interesting in another woman right now. Not at all. Of course, my own sex life with ED is over because of my medications. If I ever get off of some of them, BIG IF, I might change my mind but not now. I Carol never really seem to want much sex, so I just adjusted. But my real craving is the same that so many of you have mentioned. Adult conversation. I am an engineer, so I also like to talk about complicated things and Carol never liked that either. But now my daddy would say that I am "intoxicated, by the exuberance of my own verbocity!" I miss talking. Also my DW gets realy antsy when I am talking on the phone. She is jealous of the phone.
bill, My DH does the same when I am on the phone. He seems to think that all phone calls/conversations shouldn't last more than a minute!!!!! If I am speaking with my friend in Ohio or my niece in Scotland you can bet we talk longer than a minute. lol
I've been wanting to weigh in on this thread but got momentarily sidetracked -- the terminally ill husband of my "third best sweetheart" (my former DW's youngest sister) that I was slated to take care of for about a week beginning Wednesday died early Sunday morning, so I spent the past couple of days helping her with funeral plans, etc. It was good to feel useful, and I look forward to getting a further chance to be useful in about a week when she returns home from previously-scheduled hip replacement surgery.
But back to the subject -- I think others were correct when they suggested that a male's "natural" role is to try to pollinate females as often as he reasonably can, and the female's role is to try to procreate and nurture and protect offsprings -- both aimed at perpetuation of the species. The female finds the male neccessary for the procreation part, and decidedly helpful in facilitating her nurture and protection of the offsprings. Apart from making the male especially susceptible to the "allure" of females, perhaps "nature" has also made the male especially desirous of continuing female companionship as a way of guaranteeing help with the nurture/protection role. I know that what I'm looking for isn't a "housekeeper", as some of you women seem to view as a males' motive in seeking a partner -- I'm looking for someone who looks and smells and thinks and feels like a woman -- and I've already said (long ago) that I'd be willing to continue "washing the socks and underwear" or whatever in order to have a female partner.
I guess I was one of those guys who worked and provided for the family while the wife took care of the home front. I now enjoy cooking the meals. She still loads the dishwasher and puts them up anywhere she decides they go on that day. For the past 2 years I have been at home being the caregiver and she has been able to do less and less and I have been doing more and more. I guess I do miss the intellegent conversations the most. The sex is something that I want, but I do not feel right dealing with someone who is so mentally out of it. I have given up enough and I feel like if I can find someone who is a willing partner, then so be it. I am surprised that the women here are so willing to put their whole life on hold till they get thru the tunnel. I am 55 and do not need blue pills and that might another reason.