This is a subject that has been tiptoed around, but to my knowledge never discussed in depth. Do you ever just feel like you would like to end it all? Take your loved one, sit in the car in the garage hold him/her tight and tell them you love them and turn on the engine?
DickS

Oh, Dick. I have not felt like I wanted to take my own life along with my dh's, but I have thought many times especially, when the going gets tough, I wished I could do something that would end it for him. What a horror this disease is! I know you sometimes feel like you can go on no more. How can anyone expect us to handle this well? Thank you for having the courage to open this discussion. Depression is part of the spouse caregiver's life, I am afraid. Are you on some meds that will help you cope? I am not at this time, but am considering it.

Yes, except due to our history I would not take him with me. But then, maybe I would. I have been suicidal all my life starting in childhood. When we got the diagnosis, that night I lay in bed thinking of how to do it. I don't want to go on this journey with him. And if it is slow - well I don't want to think on that. I don't have a garage but could start the generator up and run into the motorhome!!

Yes, night time is the worst for me, too. It's the lonliness of it all I think. Not only do we deal with depression about living with this, but we really have no wife or husband either. It really gets you.....M

You are right, Nancy. The joy does leave your life and sadness takes up residence. It is hard to overcome. I used to cry all the time. Now I cry every other day....M

i think it is very important to purge yourself every so often of the negativity of all the stress and emotional turmoil we deal with everyday. it builds inside and erupts like a volcano if you dont let it out on occasion gradually. you need to tryto rid those thoughts thru something positive for yourself that still gives you some sort of joy. exercise is a good way to expell stress. taking a walk in a beautiful park or woods and just listen to the sounds. even the tapes of the oceans you can buy to turn on in one of those beside radios works nicely. i have some tapes from when i went to hypnosis when i was very depressed and they can snap me out of it til the next time too. you listen to the tapes and it kinda puts you back into hypnotic trance and you just listen and relax. its great.
i am not a depressive sort either but do have a tendency to let it build up sometimes too far. i am sorry you are having these thoughts. i agree with joan, speak to your dr and let them know whats transcending in the wee hrs. dr rx is our friend -divvi

I have not thought about doing anyone in yet.

Dear FayeBay: I don't know exactly where your DH is on this journey, but it is not unusual for some to stop eating. If you are thinking of forced feeding, be aware that the body is shutting down and cannot process food in any normal way, it only makes things worse. If he has given you POA for his medical decisions and his wish is to let nature take its course, you will not be held responsible for his death. To be honest, we CG's don't have that kind of power, nature will have its way. The most loving thing we can do is to follow our LO's wishes and make things as calm and comfortable as possible. Not everyone sends their LO to a hospital, staying home with hospice can be a better choice. Let him have his control, that's the right thing to do.

If at all possible, I would keep him at home. Then you have control over what is done - following his requests. Several years ago my wife's aunt was in a nursing home in Philadelphia (we are in Maine). They called to say she had stopped eating and they wanted to put in a feeding tube. I told them not to do it. They did it anyway. Back at the nursing home, she pulled the tube out, so they put it back. Each time I told them not to do it, and each time they refused to follow my requests (supported by my wife). She was telling them something. If you have him at home, and don't want the feeding tube, no one can force you to do it. In the nursing home, they might go against your wishes. When my mother, age 100, was in a nursing home and stopped eating, they honored my request not to force her to eat. She died peacefully a couple of weeks later with her family at the bedside.

I can't believe that I'm at the spot in this journey that I think I am. My DH had an UTI that had him in thehospital for a week and then 4 weeks in a rehab facility. He did recover some functioning, but not enough to come home. So about 2 weeks ago I placed him in a memory care unit in an assisted living facility. Now Hospice has evaluated him and admitted him into their program. And when the doctor came this week, his opinion is that he only has 2 or 3 months left to live. I never thought it would happen so fast. But the last few times I've visited, my DH has not really known I (or the dogs!) was there and when I tried to feel him lunch he would only have a few bites. We are both very clear on no feeding tube, no hospital if possible, etc. so I know what he would want. I'm very grateful that Hospice is on board; they have been very thorough and supportive. He has taken a very rapid trip on this disease all along, but it was still a shock to hear that he might be over it so soon.

DickS---Back to your question.
I bet everyone of us has thoughts like this--either some sort of suicide pact or assisted suicide for our LO. My experience has been that these usually tend to fly through when I am VERY stressed and/or tired. Generally they don't linger, and I don't allow myself to go into mental plots of how to accomplish. From a past experience with depression, I would tell you, if such thoughts are persisting, SEE YOUR DR. Meds. and/or counseling can make a huge difference.

My sister and her husband lost one of his sister's to suicide and from what I learned from them--it is NOT a solution. She is gone, they had to clear up all the loose ends of her estate, while trying to deal with the trauma of finding her; her funeral; and handling trying to understand and explain to her nieces and nephews the loss. Suicide causes huge hurt for those left, and means the person will miss out on all the good stuff yet to come.

As the spouse/caregiver for someone with Dementia we have to deal with a lot of bad stuff. But there is good happening in our lives too. We have to grab every morsel of the good and hang in there, because there's more to come.
Besides that, I really think, although we don't know why now, there is a reason we are dealing with this. This site is a reason--we help each other and our threads continue to help those coming after us. As our ranks grow and we support each other, we also become a voice for our LOs and ourselves.
Those thoughts undermine us if we let them. Or we fight them and make ourselves stronger. It is normal to want to escape. We need to make that escape a posiitive event.

Dick and others, I can honestly say, I have never thought of any of these things. Sure the journey is not always fun, but , (and I guess it's because of my age, LIfe is too flippen precious!) I have no illusions of what the journey will be, but I believe that I am on this journey to learn something. I am not going to screw up the lesson and have to go thru it again next time around. Again, that's only how I feel. I am sorry that some of you have even contemplated such endings. I grew up with several people who had LO's commit suicide, and watching what effect it had on them was not something I would put on anyone else. Just my feelings! Please seek help as Joan/Admin suggested. There is plenty of help out there, I know what your going thru with your LO, but it's not worth taking your's or their lives. Rk

It is sad that we do not have vet's for people, but yes I have wondered how I could end it all without the ramificatons of spending the rest of my life in jail. Suicide leaves a long legacy for your future generations, and your grandchildren will always remember that grampa or grandma committed suicide. Now, I wonder if the power of attorney would protect someone if you act in their behalf....interesting thought.....yes I killed my wife, but I had the power of attorney in my hand, along with the gun, because it was her desire to end her life....My wife is aware that she does not want to progress to the final stages, and prays that she passes away before that time.
I remember having a great uncle who committed suicide at the age of 94. He was blind, hard of hearing, could not speak english (he spoke french), and was in a "county home", where all he could do was eat and sleep. We were shocked to hear that he opened a window, and jumped out of the fourth story. However, he leaves a legacy for all his descendents as one who was a suicidal maniac, and lost the courage to live.
In actuality, I think that suicide is the ultimate test of courage....It takes a lot to actually succeed at suicide.
I keep thinking of Jesus on the cross, when a roman soldier speared him in the heart because he was so moved by the slow death and torture....I think that most humane people would have done the same..it is hard to watch someone suffer so much..
Anway, don't do it!!! Currently, Joe Barnes from my city is in jail awaiting trial for shooting his 64 yr old wife with alzheimer's. His family is devasted, not only from losing their mom, but now their father who is in jail. It tore them apart because they lost their whole life, with no survivors.......so swallow those suicidal thoughts, and forget feeding them glass dust, or rat poison, or snuffing them with a pillow......forensic pathologists are real sophisticated these days, and you will get caught......

I didn't mean to have people think I am judging any ones feelings, but I also didn't want every person who comes to this post think that we all have thought these thoughts. So felt I needed to speak up. But what you need to understand that, is what I and others have said the legacy of suicide is very intense.


Another thing I worry about is the children of EOAD LO's. Fact is that they have a strong chance of getting it, hopefully a cure will be found. But if murder/suicide became the way to take care of AD that gives them no hope! That would truly be sad! This disease may be a horrible burden on us as caregivers, but it's the way I survive caregiving that will help give future generations HOPE. It may not be pretty, I may be a bag lady all alone someday, But I refuse to let it destroy me! I am not saying everyone shouldn't be able to talk about their feelings, but remember you are on a public forum where Children may actually read. Honestly I don't know what else to say. Rk




phranque, What a sad story! Both!

I've certainly wished I'd go in some morning and he'd have died in his sleep. I certainly will keep him home if I possibly can to stop any unwanted prolonging of life. But like phranke, I wouldn't want to leave my kids and grandchild with the legacy of our committing suicide. And I'm sufficiently younger than my husband (just 11 years, but a lot of difference) to be able to at least hope, for a while longer, that I may have a life after his Alz. takes him.

Oh, Ro13, my heart aches for you and all you have been through - and are going through. This is a tough journey - but as you say - we are here for a reason. May God wrap his arms around you.

I appreciate all the advice given here. It does make it easier to do what I know I feel I should do. Back to Dicks' question, DH took care of his father for 8 years. At the end he talked about his father's suffering and at times he wanted to end it all for his father. When he became sick and started talking about shooting himself his guns disappeared. I did not feel this would be a natural death. We all have to make some grusome choices with this disease.

Nancy B says: As it is now, he won't get to decide..his 'deciding button' will be long gone. I'd wish for him to continue to feel peace and comfort as he goes gentle into the night.

My mother always said that if she started forgetting like her mom, she would kill herself. Unfortunately she forgot. ;-( To me that was sad. To watch her existence in her later years was sad and my heart ached. I knew she did not want to live that way. Her mind was in her childhood, she was confined to a wheelchair wearing diapers and having to be fed with food drooling down her chin. Her mind and body had betrayed her. That is not how she wanted her life to be. My oldest sister was her caretaker and wanted to play god - wanted her alive no matter how she existed. I hated seeing her that way and in no way do I ever want to live my final years dependent on everyone for my existence, nor does my husband.

My dad lingered in a vegetative state for 4 years after a stroke. He had seizures that would cause him to drool horribly. He had no life those 4 years - just laid in bed or set in a wheel chair looking blankly into space. The stroke had destroyed so much. That was not the life he wanted. Whether he had died when he had the stroke or 4 years later - the loss was the same.

My paternal grandmother committed suicide years before I was born and I do not see that as a negative. She had her reasons and found that going on in life was not what she wanted. Maybe cause I can identify and have known many in that place, I do not judge. I am very aware that for probably the majority, suicide leaves far more devastation to those left alive than the person can imagine. Why? As when someone dies the tears are for ourselves, not the one that has died. We mourn for our loss, not for the one who died.

I will admit, suicide of a young person or someone in the prime of life is far more devastating to the friends and family than of an aged person. And suicide of the young is tragic but unfortunately if you speak with teenagers and young adults, many feel there is nothing to look forward to in life. They feel the world is failing and there will be nothing for them. This is tragic.

There are two sides to every leaf - and we have both here on this list. Dick expressed one and I respect him for being honest. It wasn't easy and he opened himself to judgment and criticism. Others feel that even thinking it like he has done and wanting to discuss it is wrong and did not hesitate to criticize him.

Dick, thank you for being vulnerable. Even if you have no intention of actually doing it, the thoughts still come. Most people that have suicide thoughts have no intention of doing it. They are not suicidal. For Christians it is believed the devil is tempting us as he did Jesus in the desert. The thoughts come and go with no thought for action. For others of us, they come and stay and really harass. That's life. IMO

An excellent post, Charlotte!

My Dad took his own life by stopping eating rather than letting lung cancer continue to slowly drain him of life, and I have always admired him for his decision and his grit in carrying it through. If there is an "honorable" way to take one's own life, I'd say that's it -- and from what I've read, it isn't actually too unpleasant.

He had always enjoyed good health and actively enjoyed life up until, at age 72, he was diagnosed with incurable lung cancer and told that he probably had about six months to live. Toward the end of that six months I had gone back to MS for a week's visit with him, and we had a good visit -- some days being allowed to take him from the hospital and drive him around back roads where he used to hunt and fish, and stop by to visit former fishing buddies, etc. When the time came finally when I had to leave to return to my own young family back here in FL, he asked me to go over to my brother's home in a town nearby and borrow one of his guns and bring it back to him so he could end his life and spare my mother further expense and suffering, and spare himself the continued indignity of some damned disease continuing to eat away at him. I told him that I would go and get the gun, because he was my father and had asked me to do it, but that when I got back I would talk him out of using it because shooting himself would just be too "messy" and too hard on my mother and his friends. I did go and get the gun, and on the way back my brother and I stopped and talked with my Dad's doctor and got an agreement from him that he'd be willing to sedate my Dad to the point of unconsciousness and keep him unconscious until his natural death if that was my Dad's preference. When my brother and I presented that option to my Dad -- that as far as he was concerned, his conscious life would end when the doctor administered the sedative -- he ostensibly agreed to that plan; but then when the time came, and after I had returned to FL, he declined the doctor's plan and just took charge of his own death by stopping eating -- he never took another bite of food and died about two weeks later. He's a hero in my eyes.

And as for me, well yes, I used to jest, half seriously, that if the time ever came when my DW and I became candidates for a nursing home, I'd prefer to just drive our motorhome off a cliff somewhere out West and end it all for both of us then and there. (Of course my DW would always protest that what if she wasn't ready to go when I decided that the time had come? I think I told her that she'd just have to trust me.) I even had the cliff picked out -- from an overlook at the top of a dugway in southeastern Utah overlooking Monument Valley -- but it doesn't look like now that we'll get around to using that cliff; I'm still healthy and have visions of a life even after my DW is gone, so I'll just have to hope that death will come to my DW more gracefully than wasting away in a nursing home. Maybe she'll just quit eating, but that would have to be her choice, not mine. Both of us do have all the living will and health care surrogate business taken care of, declining life support measures, etc.

When friends would have their first baby, many years ago, more than once I heard them confide that there were times when they felt like just throwing it against a wall, the way a woman in the news had done. I said, EVERYONE feels that way sometimes. The measure of our sanity is that we DON'T DO IT! Same here.

Thank you for the sharing - I think a lot of us have those "secret" feelings and it is good for us to to know that others have them as well. Makes us feel more normal.

I like to be able share those ideas and feelings with people that understand and that won't go ballistic on me. Otherwise those ideas and feelings stay in and may come out sideways. Sometimes I feel I must be the only one with a mixed feeling and idea if I don't hear it from others. I find understand and support in all of you and am so grateful!!!!!!!!!

bluedaze
Like Charlotte said in her post....."Even if you have no intention of actually doing it, the thoughts still come". It was a bad night, I was sad and in a reflective mood. I also believe as Sandi states that this disease is not going to take two lives. Sorry that I made you worry.
DickS

marilyninMD said "Time has been a healer for me--it is a horribly rough road, but I am determined to see it through and come out the other side intact." EXACTLY. This is what I mean when I say that we will win over the VaD taking my DH. I will see him through this in the best way possible and he will go to a better place and I will come out intact, knowing it.

thenneck-you are a courageous man. I admire you.

It's hard to imagine that one person has had the horrible experiences you have had............finding two suicide victims. That's absolutely unbelievable.