I've found it difficult to be in the same situation, but I commend you for joining in an appropriate way. It is absolutely essential, I think, that we don't isolate ourselves. We do still belong, and we are valuable. It often feels awkward, but that lessons as time goes by. We may not know it, but people do look to us as examples. I'm thinking of a woman at church whose husband died recently. His death was a great loss to everyone. But to see his wife continuing to participate, contribute and even enjoy life where she can, helps all of us.
I found it very hard the first time I went back to our Sunday school class. I did not sit in the same place we usually did in either Sunday school or church. At first I felt very uncomfortable until I realized no one was thinking about where I sat except me. I've not been in your same situation but I understand how I might feel the same way. Your friends miss your dear one too and keeping you with them might just help their grief. We went to a yearly army reunion for 15 years. One of our group lost his wife and we were so glad that he came to our next reunion. My husband was still able to talk with our friend and we told him how much we also missed his wife. That was the last year dh was able to attend. Since that time other's health has failed and we no longer have the reunions. For me just that first time alone was absolutely the hardest but each time after gets easier. Do you think that if you continue accepting invitations to be with your friends it will become easier. We are told in GriefShare not to isolate ourself. It is hard. Grief is hard. No getting around it. Good Luck.
I have been attending a large church close to my house. I am not a member (yet) but, they are having a grief support meeting on Wednesday. I have been attending Altz support groups for quite some time now and found them to be helpful and somewhat enjoyable. A nice group of people with a lot in common.
I hope to find the same thing at this new group, but, I was wondering if some of you have already had experience with this kind of support group.
Your friends are letting you know they care. They are YOUR friends now, where they were both of your friends. Some couples just slip away because they felt awkward, but the ones who ask you to come honestly want to be with you. Surround yourself with their love. The awkwardness will pass.
It took me a year before I got comfortable going out with couples who had been OUR friends and now wanted to keep me as a friend. Now, it is so much easier. I feel lucky to have them wanting to be with me. Occasionally, they will say "remember his reaction to so and so?" and we would all laugh - because they share the memories and want to remember the good times with me too.
It takes a while to adjust to being "one" instead of "two" - hang in there!
By the way, I changed Sunday School classes from a couples class to a women's class, and I love it! I knew most of them anyway, and several of them are widows too, but we have young women as well, so we balance out, age wise. I don't sit where we sat in Church.....I sit on the other side now, with a couple I've known in that Church since we were in the Church nursery together! It is different, not better and not worse - just different.
It hasn't been two years yet, and I'm still adjusting....I don't go to a grief support group, because I have my frients here at Joan's, who are widows and widowers and we share e-mails on points we don't want to air publicly. A lot of things we DO air - and share - because we are all on the same boat...
Mary*-well written. All of our married friends have dropped me. I have met and found many new friends and activities so my life is full and happy. I've gotten over moping about the things that should have been.
Mary & Bluedaze: Thanks for your response and advice. I am finding that being with people and staying busy is my best therapy for now. However, I still plan on attending the grief support meeting on Wednesday..
dean, the truth is that a single woman is not a social asset, but a single man is, always has been and always will be. That's just the way it is. You're behaving appropriately and will continue to be included in social gatherings. It's good to force ourselves to get out there and be with people.
Dean I am so sorry for the loss of your dear wife. I am so glad to see you posting. A lot of the time we know there is no answer, often we are not even looking for one, we just need to be heard. To get our feelings out. This site is wonderful for that!!!! I think the grief therapy would be a good thing. I hope you are able to find the same help you were able to find with your Alzheimer's support group. ((hugs))
I have been attending GriefShare at our church for about two months. It is a mixed age group and I am by far the oldest. There are three widows in their 40's and a man whose 19 yr. old son died after many years with M.S. There is a short video shown and all the narrators have had someone close die and they share. Then we discuss the video. I also receive an e-mail daily from GriefShare that I find helpful. Some of our meetings are more helpful than others. I have formed friendships with the others and two of the women and I met one evening for supper and listened to some live music from locals. Dean, you might want to go to the GriefShare web page and sign up for the e-mails. This is all faith based material and I find the e-mails so often address just what I'm feeling that day. Grief is hard.
I had hoped to talk to someone (preferably a professional) yesterday and Grief Share inre some feelings(?) I am trying to deal with. Since they only had group discussions and I would be to embarrassed to discuss this problem in front of strangers, I have decided to bring it to you good people. Any comments you care to make will not offend me and I will appreciate your thoughts and consideration.
Here goes! A few months ago I was so lonely I could almost scream. Me, my little dog and a TV did not make for a happy evening. So, I started going to the senior center here and I am glad that I did. Met some nice people, won the domino tournament and made some new friends. So, you say what is the problem. There is one lady there that absolutely fascinates me. I have only visited with her and danced with her a few times, but, I think about her continuously and day dream about what might be. This is the same as puppy love to a teenager and I know that it is silly. I suspect that she knows that I have an interest in her, but, nothing has ever been said about it.
As you good people know, I have always been faithful to my wife and because these feelings (only feelings) began before she passed away, I feel somewhat guilty. But, now that she is gone, I still don't know what to do or how to feel. She has been a widow for a few years and I think she would be approachable to have a cup of coffee and talk. But, is it so soon for that?
I have learned one thing, and that is that widowers should not make important decisions for a period of time after the death of a spouse. Aren't old men silly? But, seriously, I don't want to do something stupid and get hurt or hurt somebody else. I am to old for that and I think it can be avoided.
Nobody in the world knows this, but me and you (and maybe the other woman). My children would die if they knew, so I won't tell them if you won't.
Since this has become an obsession, any advice you can offer will be appreciated.
Sorry if this seems kind of rambling, but, I didn't know a better way to express it. It was difficult anyhow.
First of all, let me express my condolences on the death of your wife. I apologize for not doing so sooner, but I didn't check in on this thread.
My advice to you about the lady that interests you is simple - What are you waiting for? Neither of you is getting any younger; life is short. The worst that can happen is she says no, and there will be another lady soon enough with whom to share a cup of coffee, a dinner, or whatever else.
Go share a cup of coffe, Dean, and see where it goes. She may just remain a good friends, or it might go further. You'll never know if you don't try! Good luck - and lots of happiness.
Vicki is right. You can never have too many friends. Take it nice and easy and enjoy the getting to know each other. And, yes, we ladies know when someone is interested.
I can only relate what happened in my sister's life. She had a chance meeting at the hospital when visiting a friend the same time a man friend of the patient was there. He later came by where sister was working and asked if she would like to go for coffee. Sister's husband had died recently and she was very hesitant. It was a small town with not much for people to talk about and she didn't want to be the topic. He asked again another time and she did consent. She enjoyed his company and their coffee dates became regular. Soon he asked if she would be his wife. She had been a widow only a few months and thought she wanted to wait. He reminded her they were well into the 70's and didn't have a lot of time to wait. They were married and had probably the happiest time of her life for sure and maybe his too. He passed away a little over 10 years later. Not suggesting you are looking for a new wife just that time does pass and if you find companionship - go for it.
Yes...yes....go for a cup a coffee first and let the road take you where it will. Times have changed and what was proper years ago no longer applies. And, everyone is different in what the length of time it takes...I believe alot depends on how fast your spouse went downhill...how long the caregiving role was...etc. Everyone is diffent.
When I use to make the comment..."What will others think" when I was about to do something that I thought would make others think ill of me....my oldest daughter taught me a very valuable lesson and I have lived by it for years now....she said to me..."Mother..what makes you think you are so important others are even thinking about what you are doing?...Do you really think they care or....If you are that big of a concern to others then they have too much time on their hands...do what makes you happy and let them talk if that is all they have to do. You only live once and it is your life."
Dean, you sound like such a lovely kind man. there's no harm in meeting for coffee, and see where it goes from there. You deserve some happiness now...don't worry about what others think. It's your life, do what makes you happy.
Dean, I agree with everone else. I once told my kids that if Dad went first, they didn't have to worry about me getting into any serious relationships, but if I went first, I didn't want them to be upset with him if he had a 'lady friend" shortly after I'm gone. You need to do whatever makes you happy. You deserve some happiness in your life.
Hey Dean, you are thinking this thing over way too much. Invite her to lunch or coffee, and hope she says yes. My guess is that she is just waiting and hoping that you will ask, but also feels uncomfortable saying anything. You will only know if you invite her. If she says no, then you will deal with the dissappointment, and wait for the next time you feel this way. Yep, just like when you were younger. Feelings are just that, and it's always a nervous question to ask, ....but do it. Then move on. You are taking just another small step forward, and deserve it. Don't put guilt on yourself for trying to move on in your life. You need to think of 'Dean'.
awwww Dean, please don't feel guilt. It is such a destructive emotion, one we push on ourselves. You have nothing to feel guilty about dear man. How wonderful you are experiencing such feelings again! It's a gift, enjoy it :) Don't worry yourself about what others will think, not even your children. If they love you they will want you to be happy! It may take a bit of time, but they will get over it soon enough. I say go for it! Life is so very short, enjoy as much as you possibly can ♥
Thank You - Thank You - Thank You****Each and every one. I am going to ask her to coffee or lunch next week (if I don't lose my nerve over the weekend) and see what happens. I feel like I have never asked a lady out before, and in one respect, I haven't. Since I was a clumsy teenager with pimples. I will treat her like a lady and hope she likes me.
See ++++Who needs a 'professional' when they can use this website and get all of this good advice for free.
Dean, Sorry for your loss, but you are alive. Live. My daughter told me "do what you want Mom, until you don't want to do it anymore. Make yourself happy now." We have all been through the mill. We deserve to be happy and I truly believe our spouses would want us to be, Go for it, Dean.
Oh Dean, I hope you did invite her for lunch or coffee. You can be friends for now and more might come. You have been a good and faithful husband. It is time for you to enjoy life in whatever way you choose.
You've built up a lot of expectation inside yourself based on your crush for her. It's all good and well if she is interested; but, if she is not it will be equally crushing. This isn't a cup of coffee at all and the other side of even a neutral reaction by her is going to be very disappointing inside.
Of course you must go for it. And I agree with everyone that you are completely entitled to. I don't think there is much consideration so far of how easily and how badly you can be hurt here. Try to understand that if she is not interested it may just be that her one weakness is having bad taste.
It may also be that she likes you but says no because she is A. Scared. B. Feels inadquate for you. C. Needs time...and so on. It's difficult with some to tell at first where patience and talking will help reveal.
If you go for that coffee and she isn't sending any signals being gallant never fails. Here's a thing you can say which is completely true and makes your feelings clear but not intrusive.
"I have a fondness for you I've felt for some time. I'm a gentleman who cares about your happiness and if I'm not in that picture, it changes nothing for me." Few women are offended by respectful fondness.
Wolf, you are reading my mind. It is indeed a scary time. You are questioning yourself and not sure where you want this relationship to go. I say take it easy and enjoy getting to know each other and just have fun in the moment. Having lunch or coffee is not a life time commitment.
Wolf (and all of my other friends that were to kind to tell me what Wolf did). Oh how right you are and how frightening it is for me to admit it. But, that doesn't mean that it is something that I don't need to hear from someone other than myself.
Just a brief explanation about where I am coming from and then you, and the others, can tell me what I need (have) to do to survive this. I am 79 yrs old, retired bank VP family man, intelligent and successful. My DW and I were married 60 yrs & 17 days when she passed away on March 14. However, she had been sick most of the last 15 years. First with cancer and then with Altz. She had been in a facility for 3 yrs. I suppose that I have been alone for this period of time, but, I have always considered myself to be a married man and acted accordingly. No regrets.
So, what all of a sudden has happened to me. I'm not sure that I can even think straight when it comes to this particular lady. I am enamored by her but, she is the only one that effects me that way even tho there are lots of ladies out there. I think about her day and night and day dream about holding her in my arms. (Thankful that the hormones have subsided with age). I'm crazy enough to think sometimes that I love her and that we could run off to some fairy tale land and live happily ever after.
Now, I know better than this and I know what reality is. I just don't want to accept it even tho I have seen people my age make terrible mistakes that haunted them for the rest of their lives. I don't plan on doing anything stupid, but?????
So....What should I do? Not see this lady again except in a group? Not take her to coffee or lunch? Or stay on the course I have planned and see what happens. I can see that any (or all) of the above might be the right thing to do for me.
Ok ====Wolf, and all of his experts. Let me have it now that you know my dilemma and far gone I am. I am numb, so don't worry about hurting my feelings. I promise that I will listen to your advice. Besides, you are cheaper that a 'professional' and just as wise. We have all lived a long time and that gives a an understanding of each other, I hope?
Dean, I am no professional, but I would venture to guess that part of the reason you are so infatuated with this woman could be what they call transference love. It is when someone unconsciously redirects their feelings from one person to another. In other words, in your grief of losing your dear wife, you could possibly be transferring the emotions you have for her...(but can no longer express to her),to this lady, whom you would be able to communicate with.
Let's also not rule out that you are just truly attracted to the woman, it's natural. I don't think it is particularly odd after everything all of us have been through to once again dream of a happily ever after ending to our lives. Is it realistic, perhaps not, but I can understand your longing for it.
Dean I would hate to see you hurt, but I think what would be even sadder would be to live out the rest of your years alone wondering "what if". See if you can try to think straight <grin> Reel back on your expectations and start out s l o w. I still say go for it! ((hugs))
I say go for it too!!!! Just start out with the idea of being a platonic friend. It might grow into something else from there.
Perhaps this is relevant. My sister had been a widow for 2 years when a man approached her. He wanted to go out. It was so hard for Joan. She felt guilty and as if she was being a traitor to her late husband. She went out and then told him to find somebody else. Gradually, the relationship changed. He was everything good that her husband wasn't. He supported her completely through her cancer. She grew to love him and he loved her. They had a wonderful couple of years together until he died from infection after heart valve surgery.
She may have a dozen things in her own life right now which move her in her ways now. She may or may not know what they are. Everyone's like that and as we get older it's nature to understand what we have to lose. The reason is a young person can make mistakes and has time to recover plus young people full of life take chances and don't even worry about it. Most older people don't think like that, half the people you meet never thought like that, and SOME still think like that.
There is a saying: Plan as though life will go on forever but act as though this is your last day.
I'll tell you exactly what I would do.
The very first thing is to understand what I can already before doing anything. I have been looking at her. She either has noticed or not. She has reacted in some way. I need that data. I need to remember. Did she look away? Did she look annoyed? Does she notice things? Is she outgoing? Is she critical? Has she ever smiled at me? Have we ever talked at all? What are the truths about what I already know?
The second thing is I would not declare myself. For the reasons I gave at the beginning I don't know where things are and 'coming on strong' is unlikely to work and may damage what might otherwise be willingness to spend some time talking or spend some time in each other's company in some acceptable way.
The next thing is I imagine myself being turned down even for a cup of coffee and most people won't do this honestly for themselves. When I'm unwilling to be hurt like that and have my attraction destroyed - then I'm actually better off 'in love' from a distance.
There is another danger when we have an attraction. They will not live up to it. They will have their own quirks and idiosyncracies which jar against my own built up expectations. I don't have any expectations the reader protests. You have a strong attraction - you have expectations. Those expectations are the harmony chords that play in the mind, they are the brush with which reactions or behaviorisms are sketched out however subtly.
From what I'm reading Dean, this is genuine within you and sir you have no choice but to go onto the field.
One thing is certain in all this. When you speak to her all this will change. You may begin having a friendship. You may never have that cup of coffee. She may be very receptive. But it will change and one question you may be wise to answer first is - are you ready for that? If you are then go to it.
Don't know if this helps at all but if it does - 5 cents please.
Dean--From the feelings you've described, Nikki used the right word when she said "infatuated". It has probably been so long since you felt this way, it seems foreign and a little scary. Don't fight it--ask her out for coffee and find out if she is really what she seems. Take things one step at a time. If things work out, great--if not, at least you will get it out of your system and perhaps the next time won't be so perplexing!
All of you are thoughtful to me and knowledgeable about my present circumstances. For that, I am grateful. It is almost embarrassing to admit that these 'feelings' could happen to me. Wolf saw right thru my façade and that opened me up to discuss it. I had tried to dance all around prior to his insight.
An update...No coffee yet, but, she and I had some conversation. She said that she has similar feelings, but, in no way had planned to ever have them after her husband died. We both admitted to each other a degree of fascination but also a healthy dose of fear. Who would have thought that at our old age, we would be fearful of the future. She has talked to her brother, a retired Pastor, about me and he approved. That made me feel good but also brought back memories of my initial reaction to my DW's father before she and I were married. Oh me...are we destined to repeat our previous experiences?? Or, maybe it is just that normal regression back to our childhood that I keep hearing about.
Well --- Thank all of you again. As of now, it is a good day. My DW passed away one month ago (3/14) and in one way, it seems like a long time ago. I still miss her terribly and will always love her, but.............
It took a while, but, it did happen this AM. Met the nice lady for coffee and enjoyed the conversation. Lasted about two hours and I think she enjoyed it too. However, to my surprise, there were no bells ringing and lights flashing either during our visit or afterwards. How do I feel about this? Kinda relieved. We did agree to go to lunch sometime and I like that.
Sorry to bother you about trivia, but, all of you were kind and helpful when I was worrying. Thought you might like to know.
This is not trivia, Dean. I'm so happy you went. Don't worry about the bells ringing - or not! Just take it slow and easy- whatever will be.....will be! Just have a little relaxation and some fun,too!
How nice, Dean. I'd say a two hour coffee meant you both were enjoying the time together. So what no bells or lights who needs that? I hope you both enjoy many lunch times together. Thanks for sharing I had thought about you and wondered what you decided to do.
We have a cousin who was widowed a few years ago. He said he wasn't looking for romance but it sure was nice to have a woman to go out to dinner with. He liked have someone to talk to across the table.
MaryinPA: Your cousin had the sane, rational approach to life that I needed to have. I, instead, let my loneliness and years of caregiving send me into a tailspin. I thought I had fallen in love with a nice lady that, you might say, I didn't hardly even know. I thought I saw an opportunity to laugh again and be happy and she was going to provide it. I think I have recovered and got my head on straight. I am still lonely and hope to have some happiness at sometime in the future. Like so many others, I have been tied down and living from day to day for so long that it is almost unbearable. 10 yrs without laughter, companionship and sharing life is a long long time. I have heard that some old men are silly. I think they are talking about me.
Dean, after I watched the slides of your life, I can see why you would want to replace that lost happiness you had with your wife.. Don't feel silly, you deserve to laugh and enjoy your life again.
Dean, I never thought you were really "in love" with that particular lady -- just infatuated, perhaps, with the prospect that you might once again have the opportunity to find an end to your years of loneliness, and find some happiness again, and that lady just happened to be at the right place and right time for you to focus your yearnings on. Maybe "in love with love" would be one way to explain it. I expect I went through some of the same feelings -- I can remember feeling sort of giddy thinking of any one of several candidate female acquaintances as my years of caregiving came to an end.
The Economist has a review of Julian Barnes' new book. He lost his wife to a brain tumour in 2008 where she died 37 days after diagnosis. He has written four books since and the last one won the Man Booker prize. This one won't. It's in three parts about ballooning but it's really the first time he is writing about his struggle to cope in her absence. It is not kind or unkind but it hit me.
"Mr Barnes shows himself to be both needy and wrathful, annoyed by those who inquire how he is coping and by the 'silent ones' who fail to mention Kavanagh (his wife) at all."
"When he reads obituaries he looks not for their age but the length of their marriages and envies those who had more time then he did."
"Mr Barnes however spurns adventure. This is the paradox of the griever; old habits do not comfort, nor does the thrill of new experience."
"This is a book about grief, not the love that ultimately provoked it, and grief can be encompassing, unrelenting and vain."
........
I almost never cut something out and put it up, but I want to make sure I remember because this review seems to be written for me. I have no wish to comment or hurt anyone else with my thoughts about the realites of grief. I do agree with the review's tone beyond the fact that the book may not be well written.
After five years Mr Barnes is determined to be resentful and closed to life because he has suffered a terrible loss. His book reveals little about his wife. It is about his annoyance and resentfullness that he did lose her and if I am like that five years later, I agree that would be my own vanity.
That's not the major lesson for me. It's that old experiences do not comfort while new experiences are unwanted and that whatever other's do, I resent it. I can relate to those two like a tailored suit.
What isn't mentioned is why. Because the reality of being hurt so badly is still not accepted years later and that is in part because Mr Barnes doesn't want to be hurt again, but also because he has enshrined a great loss as the definition of his being.
I hope that the feedback he gets from those around him he can trust now help him see what he has done; but he would have to start believing it. I don't have to wait. Life put this under my nose at the very time I need it and Mr Barnes and the Economist have already helped me to be more honest with myself.
Very thought provoking. I am thinking that along with the grief is the loss of our identity. For many years, we defined ourselves as caregivers. When that was gone, we have to find out once again what we are in our new reality.
It is such a great encouragement to read what you folks have written. It amazes me how we can all relate to each other. I often want to say "Me too".
Wolf: Thank you for your posting. I learned that we can often recognize ourselves in what others have written or what someone says. I have found that to be true and I have learned how to recognize and change my perspective. This is all to my benefit. Thank You.
Jang: Your thoughts were well presented and very real. Thank you.
One of the many things I miss terribly about my wife.
Mornings. I often got up before she did and would go in our kitchen and make coffee. Oh, what I wouldn't give to see her coming in from the bedroom in her old housecoat, maybe curlers in her hair (but, at least with it almost uncombed) and no makeup and still a little bit sleepy. She would sit down and I would get her a cup of coffee. She was beautiful, or at least, that moment was beautiful.
Sometimes it happened the other way around, but, either way that was a happy time.
Dean - no you are not a hopeless romantic you are reliving the happy times you had with your dw. Today is the 61st anniversary of our wedding so I've been remembering many happy times we had together. This remembering is what keeps me going - there are of course many tears that accompany these memories.