Well, here's my news. I emailed "the plane guy" back. Told him I FINALLY got my car back. (I've basically been stuck in the house for over a week, my husband's car has been in the shop & he's been using mine, forgive me if I am repeating myself (Ha!) Told him I could meet him for lunch tomorrow at a restaurant we both know.
He said that was great. BUT, he thankfully understands boundaries. He told me he had signed up for a cooking class at Williams & Somona, and maybe my husband & I would be interested. He said hopefully this might give him the opportunity to meet someone normal and nice. So I emailed him back & said I hoped he got lucky & he would be the only guy in the class, or at least one of 2, so he won't feel alone.
So, bottom line, seems he understands this is simply Platonic, and you can use all the friends you can get. I do meet my former boss for lunch from time to time, we laugh & have a great time. We've been doing this since I left my job. We are both on a spiritual journey, have read all the same books (which we discovered 2 days into my 4 years there & his wife doesn't read.) Have the same sense of humor, same political views. It is definitely a male/female energy thing, but we're going into 6 years now and no problems.
So I think he has made it clear he respects that I am married, and he is looking for a nice single woman. We'll see how it goes......
well me, i am elated someone in the group is having some oneoneone with a normal human being for a change and some much needed real conversations! i feel starved for all that has been lost as well alot of the time, just like Kitty but mostly just too tired and boring to be able to hold someone elses thoughts over dinner right now::)). it is possible to have platonic friendships with both sexes as long as the boundaries are set upfront. if i cant be the one to get out and have a little fun once in a while with real folks i want all the scoop on who's doing what/where/how..!! haha those of us stuck and not in the frame of minds to start another 'friendship' will live on all the juicy tidbits of gossip others will kindly share... hehehee....and i am certainly looking forward to every juicy piece of gossip from that upcoming cruise----! its all in good fun and yes it does the human psyche good to laugh and enjoy themselves -Divvi
My grandmother had wonderful gay men friends to do things with. My mother has been widowed three years and says all the interesting gay men are married now--she wishes she had friends like my grandmother had. Me, I wish for a part-time lesbian relationship, marriage is too heavy.
<<well me, i am elated someone in the group is having some oneoneone with a normal human being for a change >>
Make that two, divvi -- at my son's suggestion I've invited my second best sweetheart to a movie next week -- he suggested seeing Slumdog Millionaire, which he said has been getting rave reviews. Probably the last movie that Frances and I saw in a theater was Star Wars, and that was a LOOOOOONG time ago. With hearing aids, I've always had trouble hearing in places like theaters and churches (I really hate it that the people doing eulogies at funerals won't use the microphone -- don't they realize that their audience is mostly old folks like me who don't hear well -- but it's OK with me if I'm not able to hear the preacher part...) I'm getting new digital aids on Monday ($5000 -- OUCH!) and hoping I'll be able to hear the movie better with them -- otherwise I may have to just eat popcorn and hold hands.
As my husband is approaching stage 6 and recently placed on Seroquel for behavior, I have been daydreaming of a normal life with a healthy male. Yes, I would consider having a relationship but only after he is placed in a nursing home. I think it would be difficult to have one now. I am very lucky that I have a caregiver in the home during the day. I recently retired and I have taken up cycling and that has helped me deal with this crap a lot easier. When I am frustrated I just pedal faster up the hill. I feel very lucky to live in Northern California next to the American River Bike Trail. I can't begin to tell you how it has helped me cope. Divvi, the poop queen, I thought of you the other day when I cleaned up my first big accident in the shower. God bless you all. This is a tough road, but yes to a normal relationship as soon as I am able!
Not long ago, DH and I went back to my hometown and the town where he went to college. When we met I was dating his roommate and we were talking about marriage. For about a hundred reasons, that didn't work out and I hooked up with DH. The old gang was back for a 35 year reunion recently. An opportunity came up to take a short road trip to find another friend who hadn't come to the festivities and the old boyfriend and I took off. Initially, had planned to include DH, but I realized that I simply didn't want that to happen. I wanted a little time alone to catch up and not be "the caregiver". We left, found the friend, had a great long afternoon and headed back to the hotel. On the way, he asked if I'd like to stop for dinner and I agreed. We didn't know where to go and decided to pick a place along the way. About 30 minutes into the ride we passed a place he used to take me when we were dating and simultaneously we both said "There!" I was thrilled that he remembered to be truthful. We had a long conversation about then and now and caught up with each other. It was wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. I felt renewed and alive again. By the time we got back to the hotel, no one was around as they had all gone to the official dinner across town. (DH was with a great friend who was willing to keep him close.) We parted sweetly and he left on his plane the next morning. It sounds so very high school, but it was one of the most enjoyable evenings I have had for pretty much as long as my memory will let me go back. I didn't know I could feel so alive anymore. He lives far away and nothing will happen and that's okay. We write and I hope to keep him in my life for a long time to come because he is very special. HOWEVER..... he did spend a good deal of the evening talking about his health issues..... that did help in keeping things from falling too far too fast.... ewwwww.
When I got back to the hotel and we had parted, I realized that I probably should feel guilty. Afterall, the two of them were friends before I entered the picture. DH probably would have liked to go along with us. But I didn't. I just simply didn't. Even now I don't. I grabbed that day for myself and I think it gave me the chance to understand that maybe those feelings don't have to be dead and gone forever for me. They are still there and could be again if the right time comes along. Maybe that was the biggest gift of that day.
"I grabbed that day for myself"-definately need to put that into the 'what i wished someone had told me'.........wish i had grabbed so many i didnt...Divvi
Well, just returned from my lunch with plane man. He hugged me as a greeting. My husband NEVER hugs me, so that was nice. All my friends hug me, hey, even my clients & co-workers hugged me, my former boss hugs me. So......we had a glass of pinot grecio sp? and he did most of the talking at first. Think he was a bit nervous. But so nice. Sounds from his history he's one of those guys who women dismiss as being "too nice." I asked for separate checks at the start of things. He told me about a lot he had bought on the Eastern Shore of VA (where my husband grew up) that he bought as an investment 3 years ago, 2 great golf courses that major players like. Paid 385k for it, but is now considering a short sale. So we got to know each other a little better, sort of like a continuation of our conversation on the plane (when he thought I was single.) I wore my wedding rings. Then he asked me about my marriage, how long, etc. I gave him a brief overview, and he was right on it. He said, well, it sounds like you have to be 2 different people, the one who enters the home, and the one who enters the outside world. I mean how much better could it be described, and believe me, I did not go into details. (Trying to get away from it! I have you all for that.)
So, after a delightful lunch, he wanted to take me for a spin in his antique MGB 1972 convertible. I needed to pick up some jeans from alterations, we did that, and the alterations guy came out & made a big fuss over the car. He had tried to show me under the hood, and I was not at all interested, told him I was right brained & it meant nothing to me, except it looked clean. I guess by now everyone knows I am not a techy person, especially Sunshyne.
Drove back to the restaurant, told me had really enjoyed the lunch. Wants me to come to see his house, needs some opinions on the decor he is trying to change (my specialty) & I told him I would like that some day, I love it.
Left & he hugged me again, and I was feeling wow, I can really get out & have fun, no strings attached.
Whoops, when I got home, he had emailed me, he had lit some candles & was listening to 'ain't no sunshine" and he "probably shouldn't say this, but he misses my company."
He is going tonight with friends to Salsa, I told him in the parking lot, I hoped he got lucky & meets someone.
I haven't responded to the email, I was really taken aback. I don't think I was being TOO naive, I only thought, what if I had really done something this past year to get out there, who knows. I have basically been a recluse, which is so unlike me, I am an extrovert. i had a lot to sort through.....
I'll give it a day or so to respond, but I know he put himself out there & if I don't respond, he will feel bad. I have to know what I am doing first.
Any suggestions about what to say? I just wasn't expecting this, since he had carefully invited my husband & me to the cooking class.
I feel no guilt about having the lunch, and it was fun. He did mention (in person) I should contact him if I wanted to see a film, and I said sure, my husband had never wanted to see films. I can't think of a single thing right now that I have wanted to do that my husband wanted to do. I do envy (which is not a positive thing) those couples who have been together all those years, with touch, mutual interests, etc. We will have been married 10 years in April, and it has all been about cancer & dementia. And the repercussions of that.
Kitty, so glad you enjoyed the afternoon. i cant say i am surprised. he obviously from the plane was smitten and on a mission to get better aquainted. have fun and dont rush things. if hes like you say, just a nice guy and easy to be with he will be around and good sport about howandwhen you decide to proceed. i I say enjoy yourself without being naive of course, and have some candid honestfun. everyone needs a hug now and then:). be cautious til you get a better feel, you need to keep everything upfront and carefree did i remember in the past you were considering a separation from husband at some point? i am unmercifully truthful to a fault, (sagittarius:) so from your sounding board you seem to imply your marriage is on the rocks and has been for sometime. even before dementia issues- you are young and vibrant and want to be happy you should have that opportunity. life is too short isnt it? this fellow may give you the motivations to move on at some point..divvi
<<Whoops, when I got home, he had emailed me, he had lit some candles & was listening to 'ain't no sunshine" and he probably shouldn't say this, but he misses me.>>
Kitty, it sounds to me like the guy is just as lonesome as you are, no more, no less. Lighting candles and listening to music sounds just like something my bachelor son would do following a "date" -- he was allways shy and unsure around girls (unlike his Dad and younger brother) and missed out on getting married in his twenties while his hormones were in charge of things like most of the rest of us, and now at 52, no longer hormone driven, he can intellectualize all sorts of reasons why he wouldn't want the responsibility of marriage or parenting. But he's lonesome. His idea of "wooing" a woman would involve writing poems and stuff like that, and by the time he would get the poem written to his satisfaction, the moment would have passed and the girl would be going out with someone more direct and less of a romantic. I think you're probably right in your guess that he's one of those guys that women dismiss as too nice -- sounds just like what you're looking for right now, no?
My fear is that anyone would seem fun compared to my husband. Yes, I was considering a separation, I got an apartment just to be alone several blocks away from my house. Then I discovered what was really going on with him, and I have been in limbo ever since. I just don't want to "fall" into something, because anything would seem better than what's going on here. I've, of course, never been in this position before. Who wouldn't seem stronger, wiser, more fun, more interesting at this point. Not a good place. Maybe I should just tell plane guy this. By the way, they have the same names! Yes, life is too short, but I don't want to make yet another mistake for all the wrong reasons. Pieces the dreamer.
Gourdchipper, Your post came in after I addressed divvi. SURELY UNLIKE HIS DAD! I think I was looking for a conversation with a normal male. But normal males usually want more. I am blessed to have the relationship with my former boss, a male, who both of us can talk easily about everything. He's 18 years my junior & quite a hunk. But we have a ball, and I kind of thought maybe it could be like that with the plane guy.
Question, though, Gourdchipper ... would your son have emailed (or called or left a voicemail or sent a note) to TELL his date what he'd done?
The emailing doesn't sound like shy / unsure behavior to me. It sounds pretty forward -- way too forward after one "date" and knowing she's married. Maybe he's lonesome, but maybe he's more like mary75's hopefully soon-to-be-ex fling.
I've shied from adding to this discussion............ but recently I had a dream that I tried hard to resume after being awakened. My DH was in the dream, only he wasn't my DH in this dream. He was however somehow related to me. We were going through hallways at a hospital when we encountered an employee (therapist? tech?) and there was an immediate attraction between he and I. The dream went so far as to include just a hug, but that is the point I was awakened. I remember that the feeling was so real that all day I kept saying to myself..........."There will be life after this for me."
Sunshyne, that's exactly what I was thinking when I read Kitty's post, but I didn't want to sound sour, thinking maybe I was putting my own reaction onto it. Yes, Kitty's instincts are right on. Good for her. No e-mails today (I have 10 unopened ones sitting in the "trash"). Maybe he's got it out of his system. Or maybe he's on his way into Vancouver and doesn't have access to his e-mail. I intend to be remain wary.
Sunshyne and Mary75, both of you seem to be attributing "instincts" to Kitty that I, frankly, didn't read into her post.
What she said was, "I'll give it a day or so to respond, but I know he put himself out there & if I don't respond, he will feel bad. I have to know what I am doing first."
And yes, Sunshyne, I guess I could imagine my foot-in-his-mouth-with-women son sending such an e-mail after a "date" with a married woman who was obviously lonely and having problems at home, thinking he was complimenting and buoying her up by letting her know he'd had a good time and was looking forward to seeing her again. I didn't see anything ominous there.
I misspoke when I said he wrote that "he misses me." I have corrected that above after re-reading his email. What he said was "I probably shouldn't...but I miss your company." That seemed a lot less direct. So this morning I wrote back & said simply "You probably miss female companionship in general, not the same as hanging out with the guys. Enjoyed lunch."
Married once, divorced 10 years. I got another email from him Sunday. He was meeting "some girlfriends" at a restaurant @ 7 & I was welcome to join them. I think he was trying to prove he does have female companionship. I just didn't respond. Oh, and 3 photos of himself ???????? Like what am I supposed to do with those, I know what you look like, I just saw you. I liked it a whole lot better when he was telling me he signed up for a cooking class to meet someone normal & nice, and maybe my husband & I would like to sign up.
I don't really have to be careful, no chemistry :-) ! (I don't think that develops later.) I think he is just lonely, looking for someone. That someone will just not be me.
I have only read a few of the comments to this discussion, so please forgive me if I repeat anything anyone else might have said. After living for over 13 years in this AD world with my husband and watching him go from a young, intelligent, athletic, vibrant, very handsome man to what he is today has been an excrutiating, sad, lonely, hopeless journey for both of us, although now I am on this journey alone since he no longer knows what is happening to him.....thank God. But when this discussion popped up, I read part of it with some curious interest. We who live in this AD life, live in two worlds. I needn't go into the AD world since we know too well what it is. But we, as spouses, also must live in the real world. When someone talks about having another person in the mix, to me that just is usually just a cry for normalacy. We feel this deep sense of responsibility to take care of our spouse (to love and honor til death do us part), but we also long for what life used to be. Sometimes, many times, others can let us know there is still life out there. We have to and we must live in the real world, too. The spirit of the human being is to survive. To do less is to let everyone who cares for us......children, family, friends and ourselves........watch despair win over this devasting AD.
Pernod.....I'd say go. Do what you want to do (don't know if I'd bring your new companion to my home, though, with your wife still there...would be too wierd for even me). It'd be an odd lady who would want to be such an open part of your intimate life there at home......just me saying. My husband is in a nursing home now. I bet if my heart were open to it, I'd be in the arms of a caring man....on my terms....if I can ever get through all the emotional trainwrecks I keep experiencing. I think we all just want to be healthy and normal again, whatever THAT means.
I was reading this thread in the past and wonder can anyone now speak from experience on the topic? I noticed most of those posting on this thread are no longer posting, perhaps they found a solution
There was an article in the paper some months ago up here where a husband with a DW in a nursing home met and got involved with another woman. She actively takes care of her along with the husband and they plan to marry. The wife is not aware of her surroundings and while this creates quite a stir (as it probably should since it's a part of life we rarely examine) - it did seem clear that all three of them were benefiting. The nursing home staff verified to the reporter that since she came into his life they were there much more frequently looking after her (the DW) needs.
I think this is one of those fly by your own consience issues and I do not have an issue with it. Love is hard to find and rare enough in our later years. If I felt the need, or happened to meet someone that became important to me, I would live life by the guidance of my consience.
The problem in my experience with people is that many are not as well grounded as we might hope and this sort of situation I think would test our compasses.
I do have one bit of personal experience. My sister's husband had a huge falling out with his father. After eight years of taking care of his wife, he met someone and jumped ship into the new life. He had been saying he couldn't do it anymore for some time and one day disappeared. I threw in the son's face just months ago that he hadn't been much of a son ignoring his father's calls for help which my BIL had never considered and I told him that if a caregiver after years of support ran off screaming into the night - I wouldn't be a bit suprised. Eight years he cared for her and no one helped when warned he couldn't any more.
I don't think there is a right answer or a wrong answer except the answer the person involved can live by. Opinions are likely still strong on this subject. Yet many have hope of later. I don't intend to listen too much what my previous circle thinks. If I meet someone meaningful I'll be opening to that new life regardless. Why I would want to drag that new person into my previous life escapes me.
I honor both love and duty. A person who has supported a spouse through this illness in my judgement has demonstrated both and is allowed some leeway. I never escape my consience, never try, and will follow it's dictates whatever that means. This is not normal life. I would not be swayed by their opinion.
It occurs to me as I write this that I have a new set of peers. I respect that opinion on this topic will be divided.
thinking perhaps they aren't posting because they are happy! At least that is what I want to believe :)
Have you ever watched Barry Petersen story? It is very moving, and I respect him for bringing this issue out in the open. here is a link in case you haven't seen it.. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6601253n
I hope it is ok that I have created a second more anonymous user name (with a valid email address) in order to post this.
I backed off from an opportunity for a fun only, not serious, outside relationship, not because I felt guilty about doing that to my husband (who is still able to do almost all of his own activities of daily living) but because I was afraid at this stage it would be an unforgiveable breaking of my kids' trust to hide something like that (they are 17 and 20). Instead, I have been going out to educational events in the kinky community. I connected with my local community through a web site called Fetlife, which even has a (not very active) group for kinky caregivers.
It feels to me like a way to explore my sexual/passionate side, without actually having sex. I tell my husband I am going to photography workshops because one of the things I do is a monthly photo studio (where I both model and take pictures). The latest person to contact me is a man who wants to dress in women's clothes and be tied up, but not have sex. I haven't met him yet, but if I find there is a rapport it could be fun. Trust is very important in the community, so it isn't like a casual hookup. I don't know where this will lead me--I don't think I will ever want to have a primary, live-together relationship again.
I have always been a fairly dominant woman, though my husband and I tried to be equal partners. Exploring my dominant side in an exagerated way feels like a way to work through what scares me about having to be in charge now of everything in my household with my husband. I am less frustrated and resentful in my life with my husband now. I have found a place to grow. A woman-friend said to me "his life is winding down but you need to live." I am 55.
No judgements here. The loooooooong term loneliness created by this disease tends to lead spouses in all different directions. A few years ago, we had a woman who found "companionship" through an online relationship. She never took it "off line", but it gave her the opportunity to experience the lengthy, in depth conversations that her husband was no longer capable of.
What she did and what you are doing are not for everyone, but each of us has to find our own way of living through this nightmare.
I met Barry Petersen last October when he was here locally and participated in a panel discussion with him. What made his situation unique was that he and his wife were living in Asia when her symptoms flared up and she was diagnosed, over the phone, by a doctor in California. Living in a non-English speaking country, he had virtually no support system and didn't have services such as adult day programs, relatives to help, the Alzheimer's Association, etc. Although he hired an American nurse and brought her over as a live-in, it didn't work out and he ultimately placed his wife in a facility in the States, while he kept his job in Asia. My point is that his entire caregiving experience has been very unusual as compared to most of us and that I'm not surprised he would come up with the solution he did. I also give him credit for speaking publicly on it. I'll try to bring the old thread ttt for anyone who hasn't seen it.
Joan, you have my respect. Not being judgemental is something everyone pretends; but, less common in real life.
redpanda,
Good for you! You make me recalibrate my ideas of what effort means. Your choices aren't for everyone; but, then neither is a ham sandwich. I applaud your honesty and willingness to live. The truth is that I have found people on the fringe to be the most honest and accepting group. I have long understood that I pre-judge far more than my artistic wannabee self image admits and that the acceptance of humanity requires me to have more range. Without that we end up doing crazy things like banning Huckleberry Finn because of the portrayal of black people where in fact Jim is the character with the most integrity in the book.
The one thing that really matters to me in this journey is that our grandchildren learn a valuable lesson about what love really is and that I set that example for them. We have 22 grandchildren - 17 boys and 5 girls. And the 2 grandsons who live with us have lots of teenaged friends who come every weekend. Even the kids who visit ask "Grandma" questions and I answer them. Yes, I do still love him. Sexual gratification doesn't factor into love when one of you is old or sick. Maybe I will find someone else after he is gone but he is still here. And marriage vows are not to be taken lightly. I know I am doing ok when they say Grandma and Grandpa are so "cute" when we snuggle and watch TV or we give each other a little peck. I want to leave them those memories.
Linda that is beautiful. Your grandchildren are lucky to have you and your dh as grandparents. I never knew my grandparents. I remember my father never left the house without kissing my mother. And, they would often get up and dance together when they were listening to music on the radio...that was the days before TV. My mother often said, "make lots of good memories while you can, because when you get really old, that is all you have left."
Kasha, I have no profound advice but brought up a topic of adding a third person to a dementia relationship. you may find it helpful and poignant input from members who have done this. divvi
Thank you divvi. I just love how those of you on this site for a few years bring up former discussions. They are as relevant today as those few years ago when they started. Truly grateful!