Wow! This site never ceases to amaze me! It is almost spooky how I can log on at any time and find that someone has practically read my mind. This is the ONLY place in the world where I feel like people understand my life. I have been struggling with thoughts of wanting to share my life with someone, and then fighting the guilt that comes with those feelings, for a while now. My husband stopped being a "husband" to me about 6 yrs. ago and I am SO incredibly lonely!!!!! I feel like I have all the responsibilities of marriage without any of the benefits. Actually, lately I feel more like the living dead than anything else. I know, realistically, that I would not be able to have a "real" relationship with anyone, due to all of the care that my spouse requires, but to even have someone to e-mail and talk on the phone with would be heaven right now! I am only 42, but I feel like 100. At this point, I doubt that anyone would even be interested, but it is a nice fantasy! Is there anyone here who actually is involved in a relationship of any kind, and if so, how do you deal with the juggling act? Also, what about feelings of guilt?
<<but to even have someone to e-mail and talk on the phone with would be heaven right now! I am only 42, but I feel like 100. At this point, I doubt that anyone would even be interested, but it is a nice fantasy! Is there anyone here who actually is involved in a relationship of any kind, and if so, how do you deal with the juggling act? Also, what about feelings of guilt?>>
Hi countrygirl. OK, I've got your addy from your profile and I'll try to give you a holler by private e-mail tomorrow and we'll see if we can get some fun conversation started. Of course I'm almost twice your age, so here's hoping that some of the younger male spouses will also want to chit chat with you.
In response to your question, well yes, I guess you might say that I'm in sort of a "relationship" with the widowed friend that I had mentioned in an earlier post on this thread about a month ago. During this past month we've gone out to lunch together two or three times while my DW was at adult daycare (on one of those occasions it was to help me shop for Christmas gifts for my DW), and this past Friday evening I escorted her to a viewing at a funeral home for a former mutual friend, after which we had coctails and dinner at an expensive waterfront restaurant -- almost like a real "date" since we were both dressed up for the viewing, etc. We even held hands and talked some about "after", whenever that might come to be. She had also joined us here at home on Christmas day to help me cook a HUGE pot of chili using my DW's favorite recipe, and brought black-eyed peas, collard greens, and cornbread to share with us for our New Years meal. This has all been out in the open as far as friends and family are concerned, so no "juggling act" was involved, and I really haven't felt any sense of guilt and haven't sensed any disapproval from anyone. My son had even offered us an "all night pass" this past Friday evening, but we declined the offer -- we've managed to be "second best sweethearts" for fifty some years without ever quite crossing the line, so I guess we can be content to just hold hands for a while longer. Maybe I'm rationalizing, but I feel that being in this "relationship" is actually helping keep me on an even keel and be a better caregiver.
Gourdchipper-I'd love to get an e-mail from you. I am really glad that you have someone to spend a few moments of "normal" time with! I guess my biggest problem is struggling with feelings of guilt. My husband has no hope for his future-why should I be allowed to have any? My own, messed up thinking, I guess! Finding time to even escape for an hour would be a real trick also. He shadows me constantly! I haven't been able to take a shower without him knocking on the door at least once, in over a year, and I have all but given up on having phone conversations. I locked myself in my room to talk to my mother the other day, and he made up excuses to come to the door at least a dozen times. It is such a strange thing to be so physically smothered and yet so alone at the same time. This disease is so terrible!!! Anyway, enough venting! Gooed luck to you! Julie
Gourdchipper i think your second best sweetheart relationship is workable since everyone is on the same page. i know i couldnt muster the energy to have even a platonic relationship at this point but can enjoy a time out with friends/family without DH and enjoy rational conversations both men/women:) i cant fathom how the younger ones here are dealing with the devastation of physical as well as emotional loss so early in life-i dont see any harm in emailing some of these ladies who want a male friend to converse with. hope all works out for the best-Divvi
I have a situation similar to Gourdchipper, except that the relationship is long-distance. B and her late husband were close friends of DW and me for the past 55 years. Her husband died about 5 years ago, and she is now living in Rhode Island to be near her children (I live in Maine). She calls us about once a month, and send occasional e-mails. She tries to visit us 2-3 times a year. If she were closer I'm sure we would be doing things together. Unfortunately, we can't visit her in RI since DW doesn't travel well (we have a daughter in MA not too far from her). Sometimes I think about what a relationship with B would be like, but know it won't happen any time soon.
<<Hey Gourdchipper-I would love to have a relationship with you. I have a honey-doo list up the wazoo. >>
You're tempting me, bluedaze, and you're a lot closer than California, but my plate almost runneth over already (it doesn't take very much to runneth over an octogenarian's plate) what with my "relationship" with my widow friend, occasional flirting with Sunshyne, and now correspondence with countrygirl Julie.... No, really, you're only fifty or so miles away, so maybe we really can figure out a way to have lunch together or something like that one of these days.
Here is my experience re. looking for a companion: I had known the man and his wife for 10 years; he was a bit grumpy and opinionated, but a solid citizen and had a generous heart. Over the past year and a half when I've had major problems with my husband's (Alzheimer's) first family and ex-wife and finally had to go to court to settle it, this man was very helpful to me with good advice and emotional support. This summer I found out that he had been living apart from his wife for the past 4 years (they live in another city), and our friendship grew. However, he soon became very possessive and controlling, to the point of being verbally abusive, and I said, "no more." I continue to get e-mails from him that my nurse friend describe as coming "from a disturbed mind." I've read on this forum from others who've said, "I wouldn't like to take on a care-taking job again." I think what I see here is an older man with multiple health problems who is also displaying short term memory loss and bizarre behaviour. It's too reminiscent of AD for me. I had talked about this with my family doctor at the beginning, and he thought if was good that I had someone interested in me. Now, when I tell him the situation, he says, "It's good you found out now. A man of that age can be domineering and very set in his ways, and his health problems will get worse. What you should do is look for a man about 72. He would be more in your league." I'm having a heck of a time getting rid of him. For any in my same boat, be forewarned. What I've learned - painfully - is that it is better to be lonely and try to fill it up with people and interests that are not poisonous.
Mary 75, you can block his emails, he will know he's bounced & probably will stop emailing you. He will probably think you have changed your email address. Good thing he lives in another city. Whew. You can also stop calls. It says something like, this person is no longer available. Someone more techy could fill you in on the details.
Kitty, thanks. Blocking his e-mails seemed to infuriate him even more, so now I've directed them to "trash." He sends them all through the night, so since I'm sleeping and not bouncing them back, he's not buying the idea my e-mail address could be changed. I am printing his e-mails and keeping them in a file, in case this gets so out-of-hand I'll have to do something about it. Although what I can do, I don't know at this point. Canada is different than the United States: as far as I know, he would have to threaten physical harm to me before anything can be done. I feel like such a fool, although I'm usually not. Guess I was just vulnerable.
Mary75, you could respond to his last e-mail saying "This is Oscar and I am Mary's significant other now. Stop sending her e-mails or I'll make her cancel this e-mail and just use mine instead."
Thanks, Mary and Sunshyne, for the good suggestions. I could substitute my son's name in the e-mail, with his permission. I'll check with the police now as to their advice, and as you say, it won't hurt to have this on record.
I, too, think about "after" and wonder if I could ever have another committed relationship/marriage. But I think about what my late mother-in-law used to say--that she never wanted to take care of another man (translate--dementia patient. DH's father had dementia in his 40's). I used to think she was wrong to think that way--she was widowed in her 50's. Now I understand--when you've been through this once, how can you take a chance that it will happen again?
I have a widowed friend under 65 who was being pursued by a widow same age. She has gone to high school with him and thought she was interested in dating him. Her first husband let her travel with friends and various things and didn't mine a bit. (something like Briegul) They talked on the phone more frequently and she started noticing him asking her where she had been, when she didn't answer phone. Having had experience in that respect I told her to think about this before she jumped in because he was sounding controlling like my husband and that would be quite different from her first marriage. Long story short they just talked on the phone and she told him she was not interested in a relationship but he kept bugging her 6 months after the talking started. She does her best to stay away from where he will be and I haven't asked her recently if he is still calling her. I think she was wise in discovering his controlling before she became involved. Good Luck.
Let's face it. We're not getting any younger, so if we were to have another relationship, either "before" or "after", it would most likely be with someone who was of the age where he/she was at risk for dementia. I can't speak for everyone, but I surely would not want to marry again with that risk so high. And no way would I want to put someone in that position if I were to get AD.
I am NOT making light of this, believe me. I am quite serious - if I had an ounce of energy left, I would consider someone in my age bracket to go out to dinner with, to go to the theater, for conversation. And for other activities - I have a friend who refers to him as "the pool boy."
I'm thinking more like joang, but from another perspective. I am now CG for my husband who has multiple learning disabilities, mental illness, and VaD. He's 66 and in early stage 6. I'm only 60, but don't think I'd want to remarry, because I am unwilling to saddle someone with caregiving me as my CMT (Charcot-Marie-Tooth) progresses. I already require some in home help with personal care. The companionship of going to movies, out to dinner, etc. and so forth, fine. But knowing the caregiving that could easily be needed--unhuh. It would take a lot of convincing to change my mind. I don't think it'd be very loving to knowingly put someone through that.
I have decided I want a gay boyfriend. For..cocktails, dinner, movies, shopping, to tell me I look fab, to tell me HOW to look fab. Yup.. a gay boyfriend is the ticket for me. Just don't know how to fit in the time for a dinner or movie or cocktails.
I am not making lite of this. I am serious and have been thinking this over for months.
I am with you carosi and Joan. Seriously though, after being alone for a year we might have some different perspective. Sheltifan - I will let you have the gay boyfriend - I am NEVER going to change my perspective there.
I don't agree that there should be a three way relationship. I think there should be two, two-way relationships. I couldn't do it, but totally understand the need of you to do it. But I can't see doing this to a woman who already is going down emotionally and unable to participate fully in the relationship. I think you are confusing the need to keep things "truthful" with the need to try to make yourself feel better about it by keeping it all on the table. Just because something's on the table doesn't make it right. And just because something is hidden doesn't make it wrong.
Your wife deserves to know that she is the only one, just like it has been all your life. Whatever you do out of sight and mind is your business. I would never say do it if the person didn't have dementia, because that's a different situation. But like I've said before...the AD patient has so little in their lives, make anything you do in their presence only things that will be a plus in their lives.
Okay: here's a tale. My younger son and a neighbor a couple of blocks away had a paper route together for several years. They were friends throughout junior high and high school. Johnnie's father fairly suddenly became extremely moody, yelled at the kids at dinner when he never had before, just really was awful to them. This went on for a couple of years, finally his brain tumor was discovered. By the time he died the sons had gone off to college and indeed Johnnie had started to fulfill an obligation to some company that had paid his way through a high-powered technical college.
Johnnie decided that he should come home and take care of his mom, so she wouldn't be alone. Now remember, this is after what probably was approximately ten years of going through hell, the last five or six of which tending alone with the ever-deteriorating husband. I ran into the mom in the neighborhood. She said, you know, it's nice to have Johnnie around, I guess, but... now I have to cook dinner again, now I have to do his laundry. And he hasn't found a job! I was getting used to NOT having a man around!
My elder son, also with technical/computing experience, had recently been "head-hunted" and placed in a good job. I mentioned Johnnie to my son, who told the head-hunter, who contacted Johnnie and found him a job far enough away that he had to move out. The mother was eternally grateful!
A kicker to this was even funnier: we went to great lengths to have a "haunted house" with the kids involved at Halloween, to keep them out of trouble. One year, in spite of this, the house was egged. On top of a new paint job. We had recently gone to Salem, MA, and to the witch house there, and I'd gotten a "hex" stamp. I made a couple of notes with beautiful italic handwriting saying that "the Witch of Walnut Road" (me) placed a curse on whoever had egged the house. Gave this to my sons and told them to let it be known that this existed. Never found out who did it.
SO when the mother told me that Johnnie had gotten the job through the headhunter, she said, "he said something strange and I didn't know what he meant; do you? Johnnie said, "I guess Mrs. D. has finally lifted the curse on me." I thought and thought and then remembered the egging. She said, "You mean I have just confessed to my son egging your house?!!"
She never remarried but has had her share of boyfriends - who live ELSEWHERE, dammit! but make good travelling companions, etc.
I'm really getting bolstered up by all your stories and comments. I have to add this rider: the dinner and movies and companionship would be great, but they want the sex, too. A gay escort sounds good. I've decided I'm flying solo from now on.
York, Amen. I think we all were in agreement that the "triangle" was not a good idea. Like you I feel dementia puts a whole different spin on this. I can't help but think, can it really be "cheating" if the other person is lost in their AD world. I understand completely the need for human contact. We are suppose to have it, I truly feel we need it. Conversation, friendship, and whatever else one feels they want or need.
Speaking for myself, I still love Lynn deeply, but I do at times, feel a widow. Though I have high morals, I see nothing wrong with anyone living this hell reaching out to find something more. If one is lucky enough to find love again, that is a gift. If it is with the right person, they will understand your commitment to the "ghost" trapped inside the shell that remains... the relationship can blossom and they would wait until you can be truly free. I have seen it done, so I know it can happen.
I am thinking along the lines of Joan.... IF I ever do meet someone I love, I am young enough that I would marry again. But, it would have to be written in stone!!!! If one or the other got dementia, they would be placed in a nursing home. I can't do this again, not even in the name of love. That’s my two cents : )
I am thinking of the movie with the NY girls, sex and city,..remember they had gay friends that were the bomb! i would like that too i think. no other committments except real friendship and companionship when you needed it.with all the girly things that women love to do!.by the way, my DH did have gay friends who we skiied with and it was quite entertaining!. divvi
Mary 75 wrote"the dinner and movies and companionship would be great, but they want the sex, too." Yep, us lousy men, that’s all we want. No compassion, no sensitivity or feelings, just sex…….I think NOT!!!! DickS
Men are NOT "lousy". I think most of them are pretty great. It's just that companionship does often evolve into sex, and many women just don't want to go that route for reasons of their own.
After a long, satisfying, wonderful sex life with my husband, I can't imagine having sex with someone else. But on the other hand, Brad Pitt hasn't come knocking on my door. (<grin>)
Dick S, sex is wonderful for women, too. But we need a partner who is compassionate, sensitive and feeling. (And, as you have pointed out, this is what men want, too.) My point - inadequately expressed, I admit, and which I meant to apply specifically to this man - was that when these qualities are no longer there, a woman's trust is destroyed. Without trust, sex is not so great - for me, anyway. The other qualities are more important. So keep on being compassionate, sensitive and feeling, and we'll all love you passionately.
o.k. Here goes. The guy who sat next to me on my flight back from NYC was very interesting. We talked about his recent trip to the Galapagos Island (translate, loves to travel), told him I had always wanted to learn salsa dancing, he told me about a place 5 minutes from my house with free lessons that he goes to every Tues. and told me about his lessons in Ecuador, I have an interest in studying Buddhism, he goes to a meet up group that does just that. ETC. Long story short, I never wear my wedding rings when I travel. He assumed I was single & when we were landing he asked me out to dinner for that night.
I said, I'm sorry, I'm married. Did I mean I'm sorry to have to tell you I'm married, or did I mean, I'm sorry I'm married. Anyhow, he has been emailing me about meeting me for lunch. I have had the excuse that my husband's car is STILL in the shop. & yes it was this morning still, but he didn't have any appointments, so I got in some retail therapy.
Would lunch be o.k. or am I just asking for trouble? I want to write Carrie Bradshaw of Sex & the City.
Kitty, if you have to ask, you would feel guilty if you went, even if someone here told you it would be okay. Does your husband ever read your e-mails? If not, maybe you could let him know that you aren't ready as yet to even have lunch, but appreciate his interest. Later on down the AD road, you could e-mail him and see if he is interested. There is nothing to say that you couldn't take Salsa lessons, and then go straight home afterwards. BUT, this really needs to be YOUR decision, no one else's. How is that for hem-hawing around? <grin> I just can't give you advice on this one, dear one!
My husband never reads my emails. I don't believe in feeling guilty. I am not on the AD road, I am on a road that is unchartered. Survival of brain radiation. I think it could be a friendship, because when I told him I was married, he wanted to know if I had any single friends. I wasn't immediately attracted to him, which is the saving grace, otherwise, I might have taken a taxi to meet him for lunch, having no car. Mary, I am open to whatever comes my way. I have been through so much. I JUST WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. I have had one vacation in 10 years. I worked to pay down my rental property while my husband played day trader with his inheritance & lost it all. He basically hasn't had to move his butt from his computer for 10 years, until he lost it all, while I've been working 50 hours a week.
I have a 2nd interview on Mon. Hopefully it goes well.
I've got my fingers crossed for that job for you! I'm glad the second interview came through! I want to have a conversation too. It's been two years since I've had one! My vacation is going to be the caregiver cruise a month from now, and I'm taking him and our 45 year old daughter along, but I'm GOING TO HAVE FUN!!!!
Kitty, you are so pretty, no wonder he is interested. But keep your head. It's interesting that you weren't immediately attracted to him. Was that a gut reaction? I'm learning the hard way to pay attention to them.
Country Girl, you posted a little while back and asked: "Is there anyone here who actually is involved in a relationship of any kind, and if so, how do you deal with the juggling act? Also, what about feelings of guilt?" This is from my experience: Yes, there is a juggling act which feels worth it at the time because you've joined the land of the living. Yes, I had feelings of guilt. Still do. Also feel stupid. I took on another problem. In retrospect, the price was too high.
Mary75-Thanks for the advice! I am sorry for your bad experience. I was stalked once, years ago and I know how creepy it can be! I like the idea that has been suggested here about the gay boyfriend thing. I guess I have to side with the men in the sex area though. At 42, I am, according to the statistics, in my sexual prime. :) The thought of it sounds wonderful, but I think if it ever came down to the opportunity ever presenting itself, I would "chicken out". I know that you guys will understand this better than anyone else, but my heart still belongs to the man I married. He has been gone for years and I know that he is not coming back, but I really do love and miss him so much!!! In my "perfect world" he would come back and run this jerk who lives here now, out of town. This disease is so sick and aweful!!!!!!
Kitty, I agree the guilt trip thing isnt productive if you can control that part of it. From the beginning maybe your posts led me to believe that you arent all that happy in your relationship now or for that fact before..maybe i am wrong i know you care for your husband and tolerate living with him with a mild separation between you both. look, life is just too dang short and we have been handed a raw deal having a spouse with dementia, AD or any other kind. being young is just that, and if you feel GOOD about having lunch then my opinion is go for it. i would let him know you do have single friends both male and female so that could imply you know how to be interestingly 'platonic' and just be friends...if it leads to more at some point that would depend on you and how you see your marriage down the road. i dont have hangups about getting on with life either, and if the opportunity arose i am really not sure how i would handle it either. we are starved for attention, conversation and friendship of any genders. life has lost its jest for those of us with caregiving issues= esp in the romance areas. i think life does go on, just be prepared to let people know upfront how you like to proceed with their friendships. many men would love a date of conversation-laughs, and a pretty face to just enjoy. each of us has to pick and choose the road we want to walk, both present and future. i have never been 'alone' without a mans companionship or marriage for long, and its very hard to deal with the lonliness at times. we understand and whatever you choose i think everyone here will be respectful of your decisions.. learning to do the salsa, i say go for it...:) Divvi
I have never been alone. I married at 17 and have been married 54 years. I cannot comprehend adding a third person to my already complicated life. I have thought about in the future if I outlive him, and I am alone I would like companionship but no marriage. My kids would freak out if they even had a hint of my being shown male attention now. Not so sure they would embrace it later but at least I would not feel guilt or juggling.
But, on the other hand every person has their own life to live and we all know the trials we are under with not a good future in sight with our spouse. If they want to do the juggling in their life I think it would be their business and ok with me. I am sure they would be discreet.
Years ago, I knew of a man whose wife had terminal cancer and they were in their 40's. I live in a area where when you leave your house to go somewhere, be it the Mall, WallMart etc. your odds of seeing someone you know is 99%. He evidently started seeing a lady near his age, because the talk was that she helped him plan the wife's funeral. Now, that didn't set well with anyone and nobody has forgotten about it. They married soon after. If I was to have the inclination to see someone, and I don't, I forecast it would be all over 2 counties within 24 hours.
divvi, you are not wrong. I read these posts of people married for years & years, but still get a kiss & a hug. Affection has been our #1 issue. I am a touchy feely person, not to the extreme, just normal. I "begged" for years just to get a touch, (outside of sex) a kiss when I walked in the door, but most importantly a HUG. I told him about animals dying without touch...he just never got it. I gave up.
I am not looking for another relationship. I just thought, if it could be possible, just to continue the conversation we had on the plane. It was so interesting. I have really good girlfriends, and I am so thankful for them. Just not the same.
I feel starved intellectually, and physically (touch.) My libido died when I started taking Lexapro for depression. Is there a happy ending anywhere? I just don't want to lead someone on & end up like some of the above.
Maybe I am missing something here but how did the guy get your Email address? Perhaps deep down you wanted to have lunch with him or you may have just enjoyed the attention and wanted more which I imagine a lot of us would want.
Kitty, you could always take salsa lessons from a professinal at a dance studio...my last husband was a professional dance instructor and boy it was fun..i have to say i learned a lot and can dance almost all of what they do on dancing with the stars..haha...it took me yrs to learn and is very good exercise...salsa is sensual like alot of the other dances, tango, rumba, etc...you dont have to get caught up in that part of learning of course -you could also learn with another partner which they do alot while learning! divvi
Interesting post, and as others have said they have the need/want for a AD-less relationship I am soooooooooooo there. But I am not so sure I would bring it in to my home with my Dh still here (on this side of the dirt). In Fact I can actually say, it wouldn't happen. Mostly because I would never in a million years want him to think for one moment (and yes from experiencing AD with FIL, there are lucid moments) that I didn't care or love and respect him. Now that being said, on the side with Dh not finding out................. Bring it on! A kiss from someone who desires you instead of someone who just loves you. I would love some great sex with someone who was actually wanted to please me rather than just the 5 minute sessions because the medicine interfere with the whole thing. He still thinks he's a great lover! Kinda just like he thinks there is nothing wrong with him. Someone posted she is in her prime, I am in my late 40's feel the same way. Yet as I said before I wouldn't bring it into our home, to me that's a smack in the face. I respect my Dh and the fact that he's already had the biggest smack in the face for this life time. I wish you luck if you do try this threesome thing, it's just not for me. Rk
Kitty, If you think I was judging you you were mistaken. You said he had been Emailing you to have lunch and it sounded like he wasn't taking no for an answer. I don't know who posted about being harrassed with Emails from a man she knew but I thought the same thing could be happening to you.
Jean 21, Oh, I didn't mean to direct that to you or anyone in particular. I didn't feel judged. Sorry if I sounded that way. It was just a saying that came to mind. (In the middle of the night.) No, he's not harrassing me at all. Basically he's just sent info about the meet up group's various events.
Kitty, after we are all through being caregivers, we need to get together and find men for conversation, kidding, going out to dinner, etc. I, too, want to have fun and conversation again with men. I have a lot of female friends, but miss the fun and conversations I used to have with my husband. Thank you for bringing the topic up!
I'm not up to the salsa, but I'm good for a waltz or two! <grin>
Jean 21, it's me who's being harrassed by e-mails because the man won't take no for an answer. I've decided to let it go on for one more week (straight into the "trash") in hopes that he'll get it out of his system, then my son is going to get in touch with him to stop it.
Sunshyne, here's the follow-up to your good suggestion to ask the (Vancouver, Canada) police what can be done to stop harassing e-mails and letters through the mail: "You can have your e-mail carrier block this sender. As long as you have made it clear to the person that you do not want any contact with them, then they can be charged with harassment if they continue. And no, you do not need a threat of violence to make it harassment. I can come out now to take a report if you'd like." This reassures me. Because I think that this man's anger will increase if I block his e-mails and if I report him to the police (and because he's 79 and other behaviours make me suspect early dementia), I thought I'd give him some time to fizzle out on his own, with the idea that he'll get tired of it if there is no response. In the meantime, his e-mails are being directed into the "trash" where I don't have to read them, but I'll have them there if I need to call the police.