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    • CommentAuthorJazzy
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2017
     
    Things have been going so well lately then tonight everything goes off the rails again.
    All about the finances. According to him I am hiding things from him, I am not telling him what I am spending the cash on. According to him we always talked about what we were going to buy before we bought it, now I hide my expenses from him.
    None of this is true. We have a joint account and I have to use the credit cards to buy everything so he can go on line and check the account. As I said before were we live I can't take the finances from him without a specially trained Doctor do a capacity assessment on him and he can refuse to do the test.
    I have been very sick since October with a viral infection and had to remove all my carpets from my mobile and have it painted and install laminate in it at the end of February. All of this is for health reasons as my asthma was bad this winter. I have discussed everything with him and kept him informed but that is not good enough.
    I know it is his disease and I don't let it get to me but tonight I just wanted to scream. Nothing stopped him from the verbal abuse.
    Now he emailed me and we can only correspond by email no more phone calls.
    I sent an email to his Ward nurse to let her know about his new set back but I know it will just get worse no matter what I do. I get very tired right now and just don't need this upset.
    Now off to bed and hope I can sleep.

    Hugs
    Jazzy
    • CommentAuthorpaulc
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2017
     
    I am sorry for all of these problems you are having. I didn't find it so hard to have my wife declared incompetent to make financial and medical decisions, just needed 2 doctors to agree. But we are dealing with different laws.

    I am concerned about him having access to your money. Who knows what he can do. I gather that you are not allowed to change the online password to the bank account. Can you legally move most of the money to an account in your name? What if he suddenly decides with spend all of the money?

    He has FTD. He cannot be rational, having him see the accounts doesn't help. But I know you know this. If you were allowed to hide this information it might help. Out of sight, out of mind (OK, that doesn't seem to work with my wife).

    I did a lot of screaming last night due to a $2,500 pharmacy bill. That was for December but I know I will also get one for January. I hope to resolved that today. Good thing I live in my own house instead of an apartment. I scared 2 of the 3 cats (one doesn't scare easily, especially at dinner time).
  1.  
    Just keep remembering it is the disorder talking, not him. What I can't fathom though, (sorry, American person here), is why it is so hard to get someone with his diagnosis off your finances? That is grossly unfair--and financially dangerous--for the well spouse. Everything about the Canadian health care system seems so admirable--except this one piece of it.
    • CommentAuthorJazzy
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2017
     
    It has nothing to do with our health system but with our Provincial laws. I have already put the bulk of our money in my name in a protected account.
    he is getting paranoid about somethings now so I will soon be able to shut him off, but for now it is just divert, divert, divert.
    It won't be long now. He has been quite settled up until last night. It is just really frustrating. I am doing much better.

    $2500.00? OMG! How can you not scream.
    •  
      CommentAuthormary75*
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2017 edited
     
    Jazzy, I know we've talked about this before, but here in B.C., when I applied for guardianship after my stepchildren went after my husband's financials, my lawyer requested a 2-doctor assessment to show that my husband was not mentally capable of agreeing to their shenanigans. We were successful, although we had to take it to the Supreme Court of B.C. I'm wondering if you have been misinformed re. Ontario's law? Otherwise, it doesn't make sense.
  2.  
    Oh, yes, of course--it would be a legal thing, not a health care thing. But still.....
    •  
      CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2017
     
    Yes, no phone calls. If he does call and is abusive hang up and call the ward nurse informing them so they can be prepared. As for emails, if they start to get nasty stop reading them. I know that is hard -I have to deal with those with my daughter at times. You can always go back later to read them.

    I am glad to hear you have most of the finances in a separate account. As for credit cards, get ones just in your name so he can't see that. Once in a while buy something on the joint cards just for him to see.

    For your house, even with paint and laminate there is off gassing. Years ago we sold air purifiers that used ozone to neutralize the gasses. We sold many to people with asthma and allergies which helped them a lot. We even had a couple people who were able to go off oxygen while at home because of the ozone. The ozone it gives off has the same air purifying the sun does - doesn't damage the earth's ozone.
    • CommentAuthorJazzy
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2017
     
    It's parts of the Ontario humans rights law that they amended to protect people from abuse but it sure restricts people who are not abusers. I will just have to wait it out. Now he is just emailing me and won't talk to me. It's the control thing with the front.

    Mary
    we need to hire a Doctor that is specially trained to do capacity assessments and they charge from $500.00 to $700.00 and when they go to see him they tell him why they are there and ask his permission to do this and if he says no then they leave with my money in their pockets.

    Yes Charlotte I know of them and I borrowed one and the smell really bothered me so the took it away.
    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2017 edited
     
    What Jazzy is dealing with is explained in more detail on the Ontario AG's Q&A page on Capacity Assessments. Q&A #s 11 and 16 confirm what Jazzy said about the costs and the person's ability to refuse an assessment:

    https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/pgt/capacityoffice.php#requ

    Jazzy, from reading Q&A #5, I'm guessing that Kevan does not have a Power of Attorney or if he does have one, it requires that his incapacity must be proven before the POA is used.

    I can see how frustrating this must be!
    •  
      CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2017
     
    Just like our spouses disease stinks, so can the laws at times.
    • CommentAuthorpaulc
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2017
     
    And the $2,500 is now $5,000 (2 months). For a few hours I thought I was dealing with $10,000 but 2 months were covered by insurance. UnitedHealthCare claims that they never received an appeal because the 5 faxes went to the pre approval office and not the appeals fax number. Hopefully all will be settled by Monday. And I gave the doctor's office the fax number that UHC provided to me.

    Jazzy, glad that you have most of your finances separate from your husband. Right now it seems that credit card access is more dangerous than bank account access. Could you replace his credit card with a debit card linked to the joint account and have NO overdraft protection? I think that would limit the amount of damage that he could do.
    • CommentAuthorJazzy
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2017
     
    I have his POA and no he can't use the credit cards.
  3.  
    Maybe the grass isn't always greener over the northern fence. It would seem that mental impairment should remove critical decision making. As a study of one, Jazzy, the human rights law seems to be hampering care.
    • CommentAuthormyrtle*
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2017
     
    I agree, marche. This law seems to be violating Jazzy's human rights.
    •  
      CommentAuthormary75*
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2017 edited
     
    This was my experience in 2008:
    The only one of the two doctors I met, who examined my husband’s mental abilities (at the request of the courts for appointment of joint guardianship for me and the Public Trustee) was a highly trained, specialized medical doctor. He arrived when I was I visiting my husband in the Care Facility. He spent an hour with us both and an hour with me absent from the room.
    His manner of approach was tactful and professional. He clearly conveyed respect for my husband. He told my husband he wanted to help him have the best of care and protection, to help him have whatever he wanted and needed to help him through this difficult time of life. He asked my husband’s permission and assurance to continue. “We can stop anytime you want.”
    Once he had established rapport, he asked my husband, “What would you really like if I could help you get it?” Half an hour had passed, and my husband’s attention span was over (he could maintain an alert, intelligent front about half an hour), it became very evident that my husband was not able to grasp the reality of his financial or health matters.
    I have no idea of what was said after I left, but think it was to give my husband time and opportunity to discuss any fears, misgivings or concerns he had.
    I know that the conclusion of both doctors was that my husband was not able to make sound or reasonable decisions about health or financial matters. Guardianship was granted to both the Public Trustee and to me, and we worked together successfully until my husband’s death in 2011.
    At no time that I witnessed was my husband told he could refuse to cooperate at any time. Conversely, an atmosphere of trust and helpfulness was established. “I am your professional help in trying to give you peace and security at this time of your life. I am here to help in any way I can. We can speak candidly about anything. You wife is being respectfully asked to leave us alone. I am here to represent you .”
    I know that my husband felt respected and reassured by this interview, and so did I. In my opinion, no human rights were violated. It was well-worth the money spent.
    • CommentAuthorJazzy
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2017
     
    WOW! I feel like my explanation regarding my Provinces laws had to be verified by one of the members here. That sure makes me feel good!

    Mary
    My DH is not as advanced as yours was. I have spoken to someone who has had an assessment done for a family member and they do have to ask permission. I get alerts from my bank if there should be any charges even for mine so I am not concerned.i also have a low amount that can be spent on my credit cards. I am going to close the joint credit card soon and just use the one that is only in my name.
    He is not talking much to me right now so it's really less stressful right now.