I invite you to log onto the home page - www.thealzheimerspouse.com - and read today's blog. I would like to hear opinions and discussion on what I think is a very relevant topic. Thank you.
I think your strong sense of self is wonderful. You are nurturing yourself with clarity and purpose. It seems that you are reaching out as well as drawing boundaries that take into account your beliefs, needs and values.
Being true to ourselves is so important to each of us and especially when we are living with this disease. We must be comfortable with our choices? You made a choice that you are comfortable with and that is all that is important. Have fun on your outings.
Obviously, you're not being foolish. You're doing what you're comfortable with. But I assume you know that. As for discussion, here are my thoughts: How you – and I mean the rhetorical “you,” not just Joan – approach this kind of thing is entirely based on your experience and perspective. Specifically, during your marriage, did you have male friends with whom you went to lunch? Or with whom you shared confidences? Did you have lunch or dinner with male professional colleagues? Do you feel comfortable talking with men frankly and casually, as buddies, rather than pussyfooting around? If your answers are all, “No,” then you might be outside of your comfort zone in meeting this man for a meal. If you’re still thinking about it, ask yourself: Would you feel differently if the request was for or a cup of coffee or lunch (and not dinner)? Would you feel differently if the man did not use the word “sexual”? (Might his use of that word been simply clumsy?) Finally, if you were going to meet as "friends," why would you describe this as a “date?”
Given my own experience and perspective, if I did not get a sense that he was looking for romance, I might have invited him to join a group activity (if I had any, which I don’t!) or suggested we meet for a cup or coffee or a quick lunch, but only at a casual or business-type restaurant, not an elegant place. If I did not feel comfortable after that, I’d drop it - no harm done.
- - - - REVISED 2/12/15 On re-reading a sentence in Joan’s blog post, I realize I misunderstood the whole thing. She says that she simply cannot walk away from her husband and everything they have meant to each other for 45 years, just to have dinner with another man, simply because she is lonely and needs to socialize.
I completely missed the import of that sentence. I was seeing her blog through my own experience. I have two very good male friends, one of whom I meet for lunch about once a month and the other whom I talk to on the phone a couple of times a week. But I have never in my wildest dreams thought that by socializing with these guys, I was walking away from my husband and everything we have meant to each other. I just assumed that Joan was talking about the possibility of striking up a platonic friendship, rather than a romantic one.
So in the words of the late great Gilda Radner, “Never mind.”
So glad to hear that your new group is working out well for you.
I really had to laugh when I read about the older gentlemen assuring you it was just a friendly dinner invitation. Maybe he was a little intimidated by you, and was making sure you understood "it was just dinner."
I agree, we all should only do what makes us comfortable.
So glad to hear Joan that you are busy and enjoying new people. Good for you.
As always, your posts give me so much to think about. I am not clear on my thoughts at the moment except to support everyone saying we need to do what we are comfortable with.
I have heard people in their 80s can continue to have great sex. I hope that is true. As Moon suggested, it would be great to know why this man mentioned sex.
You speculate as to whether you are being "foolish." I don't perceive anything foolish. Especially given your awareness that Sid knows you to be his spouse, and your reluctance to walk, in any sense, away from that.
When Jeff was declining early on, and unable to be the kind of husband he'd always been, yet still aware of me, I kind of "knew," in an instinctive way, that there could be room in my heart to go for it again, in the future...but by future I meant a time past his recognition of me as his wife.
When that future arrived, several years later, I cogitated for about a year...but a point arrived when I said "yes" to the possibility. I was very uncertain about the idea, but--very shortly after that unspoken yes--Allen just sort of (bam!) appeared in my life, as if he'd been there all along. (Which, in a way, he had...we'd just somehow stayed, by providence or who knows what, out of each other's awareness until the proper time.)
One thing I will say about love as an Alz-widow: What I post on FaceBook, and what I say here, may suggest that I've completely moved beyond the painful world of Alzheimer's, and am on a very cheerful path. The truth is, I am very definite about my choice not to choose a life of grief INSTEAD of a full life of love. learning, immersion...but there is an important point. You can't go on like Alz-spousing never happened to you. There are some very prominent scars and anxieties and they do not, as far as I can tell, go away. If you find someone who completely understands that you are a little f***ed up, and supports you (maybe because he's a little f***ed up too,) it will help a lot.
But it's not for everybody. It's only for you if it's for you.
Joan, that experience is invaluable if, by it, you can authorize yourself more to now go ahead and go on these outings and be open to making new aquaintances and friends. I noticed you said the ones you went on were very enjoyable and I recall your trip to that concert months ago.
There is a duality to our lives during this time which is that in the end it's going to be important to Sid (who can't say so but you know it's true) that you can enjoy life again just as it's important you do what you can to watch over him.
Take Emily, who's story all the long termers like me know a little. Allen is happier. Emily is happier. All their children are happier. And I believe that Jeff, or Sid, or Dianne would be supportive if only they could.
When we find solace, investment, connection, desire, compassion, peace - every bit we can work towards is the essence of justice where we are not punished for innocence.
You go girl. Don't let any doubt stop you. Smash through the wall of dread that tries to cage for no reason.
I have also done this in my own way. I have my own ongoing things like Emily mentioned. I'm not letting them stop me either.
One of the secrets longer term I think is that every once in a while it's going to take you and sweep you away. This is true of friends who have remarried or moved on without any Alzheimers in their lives. Real things are real things and they have their moments. Let them happen as part of the truth because they will pass.
That is connected to the fact that at the beginning all moments are 'swept away' and it takes something to make us turn into it and start pushing back even though it will be some time before any 'reward' is felt. The things caregiving does to human beings are powerful and real. Our experience of our loved one passing would be hard enough but the analogy I've used many times of getting beaten up in the alley so often, so harshly, for so long isn't a phrase. It's the truth. Alzheimer's caregivers are very abused human beings by the time the actual passing occurs.
This is a dual world right now and can't make normal sense but BOTH of you are important.
"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"....The trauma of what we have had to face with our spouses changes us tremendously....I find myself being more protective of myself and my feelings; but at the same time, I feel freer to be more honest with myself and others. Because of what we have been through we will never be the same....we don't forget the pain it caused....we reflect on it often, and we learn so much from this reflection....mostly about ourselves and about what we want for our future.
Joan--I think we're about the same age, and a dinner invitation from an 85-year-old man--regardless of the circumstances--would have given me pause as well. Several years before Steve died, a well-meaning friend offered to fix me up with a "spry" 80-year old. My (flippant) response was "I've already had a father." I recognize that many women enjoy relationships with much older men, but as an AD widow, it would make absolutely no sense for me.
Like Emily, I have chosen a life of love instead of a life of grief. Your heart will tell you when you are ready to accept invitations from male acquaintances. Perhaps the man in this instance recognized some sort of internal conflict and was trying to reassure you that all he wants is company. Dating after a long, happy marriage is quite a different experience than in earlier years--but that's a story for another thread!
I chose my husband for his integrity, humor, intelligence, common sense, respect for me, and all the other unquantifiable attributes that attract one person to another. I did not choose him because I "enjoy relationships with much older men." Before I met him, I had never had a relationship with an older man. And I would never have dismissed him by saying, "I've already had a father."
I'm about the same age as Joan and marilyninMD. My husband is 85; when we met, he was 60 and I was 41. My husband was 76 when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. My father also had Alzheimer's and he was 70 when he was diagnosed. If I were to get into a relationship with a man near my own age now, that man would probably be close to 70. Maybe he would start showing signs of Alzheimer’s, as my father did at that age. (I’ll be 70 in a few years - maybe I’ll start showing signs of Alzheimer’s soon!)
When I chose my husband, I chose a life of love and that’s what I got. In fact, I still have it. I did not choose a life of grief but eventually, that’s what came to me as well. To quote Queen Elizabeth II, "Grief is the price we pay for love."
When Dado was alive, even if I talked about "sex" with my girlfriends after a bit of wine, I would have to change the subject as I just felt uncomfortable and guilty. (This from a woman of the seventies, free love and all, and I had a bit of a potty mouth) Dado was such a gentleman, when I would use any swear word, especially if it was the "F" one, he would cover his ears and say it hurt them. He made me a more decent woman.
Though I am so very happy for all that have found love at any point in this journey, (just love emilys lovely guy), for me, I was so deep in to grief I could not even conceive of it, and...of course there was no one anyway. I also felt, once again for ME, that perhaps if there was a love interest during that last year or two, maybe my love for that new person might draw me away from Dado.
Well that is all moot now. It has been 8 months on the 23rd since he died. The other day, for the first time in many years., I was able to joke and laugh a bit about sex and relationships with a glass of wine and a girlfriend, and not feel guilty. NOT that this is something I am in any way ready for, or looking for, but it just felt good to be able to talk about it. Always in my heart, I say, Dado I know you know I respect you.
So Joan I just know that you way of feeling is exactly like mine was...and I look so forward to meeting you and giving you a huge hug.
Myrtle, my late husband was 14 years older than I, and we had a beautiful 20 years (and 4 children) before he started showing symptoms. Like you, I wasn't looking for someone older, just a friend whom I could love, and that's what I found in him. I think about the age thing too sometimes, like this...Jeff was in his 50s when AD started, and he died at 66. My partner now is 60 (I am 53,) and there isn't one of us who comes stamped with a guarantee, is there?
(this of course is like many topics having to do with life choices, and personality variations...there's no right way--there's just you figuring out what's right for you and taking life as it comes.)
My DH and I were born almost a year apart. I knew on the first date that I’d marry him. I also knew from childhood that I liked men individually and as a group. I like women, too, and widows, after all, I am one.
When DH peacefully died from AD, a man of the same age dropped into my life. He was still working and added me to a list of people he’d call as a companion for lunch. Nothing more. He was not handsome or interesting, but I had little else to do, so I had lunch with him every few weeks. Being the same age, we had a lot in common, we’d talk and talk, and laugh and laugh, and after 7 or so months, we came to realize that we really liked each other.
That was 10 years ago, there will be no marriage, no living together and I can see his aging – mine as well – he’s an old geezer now, balding, shrinking, aching, but not a lot of complaining. He has been an added important part of my life; someone to talk to, laugh with, sometimes to be sad with, we’ve each lost siblings, had medical problems, concerns about our children, world issues, but we’re here to hug each other and share needed affection.
I write this because he and I are part of the ‘oldest old.’ Yes that’s the current term for those of us over 75. Do not dismiss us so readily, most of us have more to offer than you might think. Those who have married someone 10, 15 or whatever years older can attest to that.
Bettyhere these are the things I love to hear the most. Seeing love and companionship well past our 60's and 70's and even 80"s. It is SO hopeful! Good on you!
Betty, I saw a reference in a medical newsletter referring to us as the "extreme elderly." I don't actually feel that ancient. The older I get, and I'm 85 now, the more I appreciate each day. I feel great, not extreme anything. And I think I've made about every mistake a human being can make, and somehow that's a relief.
Wow, Mary 75*, you've made about every mistake a human being can make! I'm afraid, at this age, I'll still make more! But I have learned that there are no 'do-overs.' Too bad.
In France, the elderly are called troisieme age, or third age, but that's old hat I believe. I've also seen 'extreme elderly' and more, but I think we need a new category for 75+. I've read that babies born today could live to 140+. My 90 y-o sister would go to the doctor and call to tell me, 'Betty, they don't know what to do with us.' No, I don't feel 'extreme' or anything elderly, the longevity comes from my Mother's side. I am just so, so, so grateful that I am doing OK. For my birthday, my children bought me a package to ride with a professional driver in a real race car and I went 170 mph on the track. I'm working up to a parachute jump--maybe not.
I have met Mary75..yes you Mary, and let me say..ancient is not a good word for you that's for sure. Pretty, fit, lovely, and strong would come to my mind first.
Thanks, Patty. Definitely stronger after the Alzheimer's journey. It was either that, or go under. But everyone here kept me going. Wishing you a great trip to Washington.