Those of you who read my FB post yesterday know that I am spending Thanksgiving week at my sister's house in Chicago. I am surrounded by children from age 5 to 8 months. I am pushing the fact that Sid cannot be here to the back if my mind and enjoying all of the little hands and feet crawling all over Great Auntie Joan. As isolated and alone as I am at home, it is the total opposite here. Check out "high heel cupcakes" on Google and Pinterest. I just finished decorating a bunch with my 3 and 5 year old great nieces. When we finished, the 5 year old asked - what are we going to do now, Auntie Joan? Well, I don't know about you, but Auntie Joan is going to lie down and rest!
When we used to visit my widowed aunt, she would say - this is like a vitamin pill to me. Now I understand what she meant.
So for a week, I am surrounded by youth, vitality, and family to replace the illness and impending death at the NH. It is giving me the strength to continue rebuilding a vital life for myself when I return home.
Joan, So happy for you to get this shot of happiness while you are away! I agree that the answer is children. I keep my 2 grandsons full time for my daughter and sil. They are 4 and almost 2. I do this to supplement our income so that I could be home with Tim. It is a win-win for me and for my daughter. (She pays me but I don't charge the going rate of daycare) Some days I can't wait for mom or dad to get home. 10 hr shifts with 2 energetic boys get long. But, they bring me pure joy! Everyone here knows that we all need some joy in the midst of our brokeness and endless caretaking. I am going to google the cupcakes. I have 2 granddaughters the same ages that would love to do that!
Joan, I'm happy that you are having fun with the little ones. It make take a few days to recuperate when you return home since they have such an abundance of energy. For me teenagers make me happy. So happy that DD an DS confiscate their cell phones during family visits. Shopping with them is a blast. Current clothing styles for them look like clothing that I have donated to the Salvation Army twenty years ago. They keep me laughing when I am with them. Enjoy it now and file it away for future enjoyment.
Well, I got in from NY last night with a whole long list of tasks and errands to do today…when my phone rang at 7:30 am and it was DD with a five-year-old vomiting and unable to go to school. Could I? Would I? Yes, of course…what could I say--that's what good Grandmas do…so my whole day will revolve around a sick kid. Sigh. (A sick kid who wants Grandma to order every toy he sees advertised on TV, who wants to play Candyland before Grandma's had her oatmeal, who wants to sit on Grandma's lap and look at dinosaurs online before Grandma's seen the headlines, etc., etc.) And so it goes.
elizabeth*, I know it's hard but maybe a little tough love "no" would go a long way. What did your DD for childcare before you moved nearby? Perhaps you could encourage her to make contingency plans in case you're not available one day. Who took care of her child when you were traveling?
Thanks, LFL. My s-i-l was (and is) a very involved, hands-on father, but since DD has dumped him and filed for divorce, just the fact that I am here, so close around the corner,with DH gone these 3 months and me being out of the workforce…makes me almost by default the babysitter and household helper. I liked the idea of a pleasant, extended family being there for each other and living close enough geographically so family life did not have to involve marathon travel. But, DD really threw a curve ball with her decision to divorce. I feel pretty sure that it is a game-changer and a deal-breaker for me…I do not want this level of involvement. When I travel, the three grands (ages 7, 5, and 4) stay in after-school and preschool programs until their mother gets home. The kids do not like this--they very much prefer Grandma's house for five to six hours per day babysitting and general entertainment. I will not make any hard and fast decisions until next September when DH will have been gone for one year. But the change in the game plan (when DH had only been dead for two weeks!! Hey, what about me?) makes it all the more likely that I will go back to NY. The children are sweet sometimes, but can be very wild, and are not being brought up with the culture and values that are important to me.(I'm not judging anybody; they can do what they want, of course.) So I am not entirely comfortable with their lifestyle and with DD…whom I feel has taken advantage of my very unfortunate situation to manipulate things to her own benefit. I already bought her her house cash on the barrelhead…Good Lord….how much does she expect from me? Her beef with s-i-l, by the way, is that he left his job as a federal prosecuting attorney to go into private practice as a defense attorney. She had to go back to work mostly for the health benefits, and is just not going to accept that she cannot be a stay-at-home mom. Not my issue, of course…I don't touch their problems with a barge pole. As you said, LFL, I may just need to say no. And I can do it, too, but after the turmoil of the Alzheimers, I don't dare make major decisions too soon. The one I was really simpatico with was DH…our core values were rock solid the same, and we really enjoyed day-to-day life together. Sigh.
Forgot to say that I pick up the little one from preschool at 1pm. The two older ones get off the school bus at my house at around 2:45. I supervise homework, if any, and piano practice, and give out snacks, show them DVDs, and help as needed with craft projects or whatever. DD gets here for supper at 5:30 (Cooking for all of us is actually better for me, and DD pays a fair portion of the grocery bill). Then she takes them home around 6:30 or 7:00 pm. This is Monday thru Friday of course. I have made it clear that I do need my weekends for myself, and that does work out, because DD and s-i-l both enjoy being with the kids and doing a lot of activities with them and with their circle of friends.
Elizabeth*, you are a strong, intelligent and thoughtful woman. whatever you decide that's right for you will be right for you. I don't have children so I can't even begin to relate on the parental/grandparental level. But I DO know you're mourning the loss of your husband, just barely 3 months gone and I am concerned about you having the time you need without complications from close family members. I trust your strength, practicality and common sense will guide you. We're here whenever you need support.
Children who are being supervised by someone else might well be entertaining and thus good medicine for isolation and depression. But caring for three young children immediately after you have spent years taking care of an AD patient full-time and while you are still grieving his death is not entertainment and is not medicine.
Elizabeth, when I read your recent posts, two alarm bells rang in my mind. One rang because of the divorce. The divorce proceedings will establish the financial, custodial, and visitation rights of your daughter and son-in-law. Make sure they understand that when they draw up their divorce agreement, they should not assume that you will be in the picture at all. To the contrary, they should assume that they will be on their own when it comes to child care.
The second mental alarm bell rang when you wrote that your daughter had already made plans for you and the children that extend through the summer of 2015. That's almost a year from now! It seems very presumptuous of her to do that. Please don't feel you are obliged to wait a year if you change your mind before then. I think we are about the same age (mid-60s) and I don't know about you, but this AD experience has made me realize that I cannot afford to squander whatever years of good health I have left.
Thank you, Myrtle and LFL. I have made it more than clear to DD and s-i-l that they cannot assume that I will be available past Sept. 1,2015, and that they need to be prepared to function without me. As you said, Myrtle, DD has already filled my schedule right up to that date. This assumption on her part that just because I am here, I am at her beck and call, makes me very nervous…and all the more inclined to go back to NY. I liked the idea of being near to family and being involved with the children…as both my grandmothers were with my three brothers and me. But this situation with DD is not the same thing at all, and I am very uneasy. Thanks for all of the support--I am very alone here now, and just have no one to talk to about this.
I have a friend whose family tries to impose on her, and her most effective way to handle it is to say, "I'm sorry, I'm just not up to it." They can't argue with that. Maybe she's tired, not feeling well, or just too busy. Only she knows, and no one has a right to impose their wishes or demands on someone who knows what's going on in her life and doesn't have to explain or defend it. I agree with the others who say that your daughter will have to learn to handle her own problems. You aren't going to be there, probably, come September, and she needs to get a support system in place with another mother, or friend. I hope you will protect yourself from now on. As you know, I'm in the same position with my own daughter, and it is not easy, but it has to be done. Too bad, but that's the reality of it. You know I send you my love and very best wishes and support.
My sister-in-law offered one day a week babysitting to any of her kids that gave her grandkids. When she finally became a grandma she sat for two days a week while the other grandma did one depending on their dad's work schedule. He usually works weekends which leaves only 3 days needing childcare. After the second granddaughter was born, both grandmas decided all day with two little ones was too much. Now they each do a half day twice a week and it works out good for them. If the parents should need more due to husband's schedule they take them to day care.
You need to figure out your schedule, what you are willing and let her know. There is no reason the kids can not go to the afterschool programs. Their mom can pick them up and bring them over for dinner. Kids can be exhausting even if they are well behaved. I do admit it seems that kids now are much more undisciplined than in generations past. Growing up our kids were always welcomed in homes because they were well behaved. My grandkids are not. Maybe they are listening to Dr. Spock again!!!
Thank you, Mary. I've been pondering all afternoon how to respond to your post..saying I'm just not up to it does not get me anywhere. There is always some reason why their needs are more important and pressing than mine. But I'm definitely not the victim type…and not a complete idiot. As you said, I have to protect myself. And I will.
My friend just keeps repeating, "No, I'm sorry." Sometimes it takes several minutes for the family member to realize they are not getting anywhere, and eventually they leave off. My friend is patiently pleasant, but determined. There's no way she can be budged, and there's nothing they can do but accept it. If you weren't there, your daughter would have to find another solution, and she could. You really need to be left alone this year to recover from caregiving. Being nurses we know what stress can do to a body. Elizabeth, I truly believe that your daughter will manage better than you if you take this year for yourself and your own needs. Then you've given yourself the year and can look with clearer eyes on what you want to do. I feel so strongly about this that I suggest you even enlist your doctor's help to be shielded from any demands on your time and energy from anyone. You've put in your time with your husband. and you need to recuperate.
Mary's idea of enlisting your doctor is an inspired idea. After what you have just been through, the last thing you need is a skirmish with your daughter. Maybe your doctor could think of a way to shield you from any demands for a fixed period of time. Since you and Mary are nurses, you might know how to accomplish this.
This is a little OT but I am starting to rethink my philosophy of being direct and honest with people. As we have all learned from dealing with dementia patients, dishonesty and avoidance have their proper places, even in the lives of honest people. Why should the victims of others' thoughtlessness have to confront the people who ride roughshod over them? Especially when the victims are vulnerable and hurting and their tormenters have the sensitivity of an alligator hide. There seems to be a view that unless people who have been wronged deal straightforwardly with the wrongdoers, they are avoiding the problem or being passive-aggressive or something. What do they think we are? Prosecuting attorneys? We are already under enough stress to begin with.
Well, that's all I have to say on the subject. Thanks for allowing me to vent.
Well, unfortunately I am in perfectly good physical and mental health--have always been a rather stoic, stable hard worker, and Mrs. Reliability all the way. I can't think of a reason to elicit my doctor's help, so I will be my own doctor. As of this evening, I am taking the children home by 5 pm, will have their dinner ready when DD gets home from work at 5:25 (her house, not mine), and will take my portion home to my house in a container to have a pleasant, quiet dinner by myself, and an earlier evening in a clean house without mounds of dishes to do. (When I prepare meals at DD's, I always use paper plates, cups, and plastic cutlery--DD is not much for washing dishes.) That will shave off an extra hour and a half for myself Mon. thru Fri., which adds up to seven and a half more hours for me weekly--that's almost one more day of freedom.
Myrtle, I agree that conflict is not always necessary. There are times when it is important and necessary to get up in someone's face…and there are times when in my opinion it is just a waste of our time and energy. I believe in honesty at all times, but not in the sense of causing a big dust-up and aggravation for no reason. I would rather avoid confrontations unless important principles are involved. I think that along with the feminist movement came the proviso that women are supposed to be very assertive. Well…OK…but I choose my battles carefully.
Charlotte, I apologize for not responding to your wise post a little earlier. I have been thinking about it, and trying to compose a reasonably brief answer. The reason the elementary-age kids do not go to the available after school programs is that they find the program very boring--they are pretty much just warehoused in the school auditorium with very little to do. At least, that is what they tell me. (I am going to talk to the school myself and find out if that is really true.) The four-year-old does not nap, and in his preschool, they are required to lie down on their cots and sleep from 1pm until 3pm. He has had some issues with wetting his pants and acting out in the afternoons, because he says he is angry because he wants to go to Grandma's instead of having to nap in school. That is why I pick him up at 1pm every day. None of the three are really well-behaved, although they are much, much better when their parents are not around. Even so, I cannot take the three of them anywhere--I would not dream of going to the grocery store or the library with more than one of them at a time. As you said Charlotte, the rules (or lack of them) for children today are astonishing. My mother and my friends' mothers would routinely take their four, five, or six children everywhere they went, with no baloney allowed. I took my two daughters everywhere by myself, including lots of international travel through crowded airports and on the subways in Japan--I was always, always complimented on their good behavior. I was never mean to them, but I just do not tolerate kids' nonsense…especially if there are any safety issues involved. I think it is pathetic that my three grands are so poorly behaved--not all the time, but often enough--that I cannot even do fun things with them like going into the park or going to the library. I think the fault is with the parents more than with the children. I could give you a hundred examples, but had best stop the rant, as it's off-topic.
I am checking the real estate listings daily for housing in NY. I'm definitely leaning towards going back.
Elizabeth* the thing that strikes me, and I find somewhat true with my children, is that the children did not carry over and imitate the way they were raised. It certainly sounds like you did a great job in teaching and expecting good behavior. How is it (and this is a rhetorical question) that some kids retain what they have learned and others just leave it at the door when they leave home? I guess it is one of the great mysteries of child rearing.
I have also learned, having multiple closely spaced children, that no two kids raised in the same household with the same parents come out of it with the same perspective. I think I will be scratching my head over these baffling situations until the day I die!!
A bit off topic but I'll keep it short. My opinion as women got educated and started working in career's outside the home, there was a lot of "mommy guilt" because women were not home with their children. I remember my friends saying to me "I have so little time with them, I don't want to be disciplining them all the time we have together. I want them to have fun time with me." That's the start of when parents wanted to be their children's "friend", all of a sudden parents HAD to attend every after school event (plays, sports, etc) and each child on a sports team no matter what their skill level, got a trophy for just showing up.
Somewhere in this evolution, guilt trumped discipline and most paid caregivers won't and don't have permission to discipline children in their care.
That’s interesting. I always thought it was the opposite. The women in my family always worked outside the home, my grandmothers out of necessity and my mother by choice. We were told that everyone in the family had an outside job – our job was school – and also had to contribute to running the household. So there was not a lot of patience for misbehavior and none at all for rudeness. It was my impression that my friends whose mothers were at home all day were not expected to do as much around the house. Of course, it’s hard to weigh all the variables. My parents were a team and very little got by them. We also had two doting grandmothers, who also had strict codes of conduct for children. And to top it all off – Catholic school!
Are all children different now? Or maybe some are well-behaved and some not? Sadly, I have no children or grandchildren, so I have no first-hand knowledge.
Elizabeth I like the change of going to their place. Good for the kids and much better for you.
I honestly believe if you look at programs the last 20 years that kids grow up watching, there is so much disrespect shown towards not just adults, but each other. Discipline problems are looked over as not that important. Kids talk back to their parents (in a joking way of course), talk to each other in a way that cuts them down all the while laughing about it. They say things to try to one up each other. I remember that being done in my family and it was not funny, so it has been going on for a long time, but not on TV and movies like today.
Think of the programs we grew up with in the 50s and 60s? Kids respected their parents and adults. I would never consider calling an adult by their first name except for a few that were close neighbors and wanted us to me.
Charlotte, You're 100% right. It's been so long since I watched those programs that I almost forgot about them. Not only do children belittle each other and their parents on those shows, but parents do the same to their children. I sometimes see this in real life, when parents demean their children. It just makes me cringe when I hear a parent call a child a "little sh*t." If the disciplinarians talk like that, how do they expect the children to talk? Or maybe I'm hopelessly old-fashioned.
Media has a profound effect on all aspects of our life and behavior. I have also noticed that fathers seem to be portrayed as crass, obese dullards with no manners and are mocked by bored children who are impressed with their own cleverness. It almost seems that in TV families the children are the adults in the family.
I feel fortunate that I was able to control the media influencing our children (computers were in their infancy) and we purposely did not have cable. While our children dress and eat more casually most of the time, they have retained a lot of what they were taught. Sometimes I think the disorder brought on by their father's illness makes me want to see only order and tidiness in their lives - and that is decidedly my problem.
I think taking the kids home earlier and letting them get wild (if they want to) in their own house is going to work out better for me. Last night seemed much easier. Depending on what I'm cooking, I can prepare in advance at my house, and take it over there, or else throw some things in a bag and cook at DD's. I am well set up for doing this--have Pyrex portables, a lasagna lugger, and a carrying case for the crockpot. I have a key to DD's house, so could even go over there early in the day and start something in the crockpot. She and I ate at her table last night--had a pleasant visit--while the kids watched some movie downstairs in the basement. I fixed a take-and-toss with leftovers for my lunch today. It's sad, or at least I think so that there is no family supper together, and the children are not learning any table manners or social skills--not even at the simplest level. They're not being raised with any religion whatsoever, either, although that's a whole different subject.
I agree with what all have said above about the changes in the way children are raised today. My children were the center of my world, but not in the way households today seem so child-centered that it's like the kids are running the show instead of the adults. I remember when I was growing up in the 1950s that children acted like children, but there was a big emphasis (like Myrtle said) on manners and a general culture of respect, no rudeness, taking some responsibility at an age-appropriate level, and being expected to help with the work to some extent. For instance, by second-grade or so, my next-oldest brother and I were expected to take turns every night helping with the dishes. And I remember from an early age that on Saturday mornings, nobody could play until the house was straightened up and cleaned. Any complaints of boredom, or attempts at being sassy…or even smirking with a smart-alecky facial expression--were met with remarks such as, "OK, if you're so bored, go down to the garden and weed the beans." Or that classic, "OK,wipe that smirk off your face, and by the way, you're grounded for three days." Or a week. There was no such thing as arguing, negotiating or anything like that. It would be met with that other classic expression, "Because I said so--that's why."
I pretty much raised my two girls like that, in the late seventies and early eighties, although I think they got far more attention, affection, and material goods than my brothers and I ever did. Things were not always easy for them, being raised as "military brats", with moves more frequent than we would have liked, and an often-distant and demanding father. (He was an aircraft commander on a B-52 bomber. A real jerk, but that's another story.)
I do agree with what Marche said about kids raised exactly the same way turning out completely different from one another. I saw that both with my own brothers and also with my daughters. But for good, bad, or indifferent, I still think the current trend toward parents letting the inmates run the asylum is sad, and doing the children no favors.
Anyway, to finish a too-long post, this all points me to either much less involvement with DD and the kids, or else a move back to NY. If I made the decision today, I'd go back to NY, using the money from the sale of this little house to buy another little, house (so I could have flower beds again, or maybe a pet). It's too soon to make that decision, as most of my mental and emotional energy, frankly, is wound up with thinking about DH, missing him--just kind of aching and hurting constantly. He did get the care he needed and the death he wanted, so it was important that we moved here. But for the future, I can see that family life down here is not what I had hoped…not the way it used to be when I was a young person and part of the extended family here…all those relatives from the older generation are dead now…I have more Ohio relatives in the cemetery than in the neighborhood…and I just don't feel that connection to my grandchildren that I had as a child with my own grandmothers. And while I love DD dearly, there is no question that we don't share the same values and she and I don't live day-to-day life the same way. So NY, here I come. (I think.)
Your mentioning the aircraft commander made me realize that in our attempts to explain the behavior of grown children, we have not mentioned the "nature" part of the "nature plus nurture" formula.
elizabeth =you post about kids being raised one way and turning different reminded me of conversations I have had with other parents as we RV'd around the country. We raise our kids up to love God, respect their elders, teachers, etc; show an example of what commitment to marriage and family is, good work ethics, take responsibility for you own actions, working together as a family, etc. and then they go the opposite way as adults. Doesn't matter if you are wealthy, poor or anywhere in between either. We can only do our best, hope for the best and let them pay the consequences for their wrong choices.
I am happy to hear it is working out better going over to their house. Always easier to let any mess be there than at your place and have to clean up.
I agree - most families do not eat together anymore. When our kids were growing up we had family dinners. Once they left we did eat in front of the TV. My ex-DIL is trying to have her and the kids sit at the table and eat with no TV or video games to distract and I respect that.
This thread has truly helped me make decisions for my future. Maybe I've posted too much and too-long entries, but it has focused my thoughts and helped me cut through the smoky smog of just missing and longing for Larry all the time (grief, I guess that's called)… and wishing for what I would like life to be…to see what the reality really is, and what steps I must take to preserve my own security and sanity for the years ahead. I hope it doesn't sound too whiny and wimpy to say that I'm extremely vulnerable right now…at great risk of being taken advantage of by others…this forum is such a safety net of support, common sense, and encouragement…thank you all.
Elizabeth* Just my two cents… I am just now coming out of my fog. A few weeks ago I came out of a meeting with a CPA feeling happy. I sat in my car trying to understand the feeling it had been so long. Happy, how long had it been. Then the last little bit, I started changing the plans in my head that I thought I wanted to do to the house. At the time almost a year ago I wanted one thing, now I see another plan would be better.
I guess I am saying YOU need time to find your way back into life. And if you are busy with outside things it may take longer. Your DD may never understand why you need this, that does not mean you don't need time to yourself. You need to do this for you. (((Hugs)))
Edit to add, Joan is right about children in small doses. My visits with the new grandson make me feel great. A few days here and there on my terms! :)