I searched and could not find what I was looking for. Maybe there is a post that covers this question. If not maybe you can give me some answers. I have POA and Healthcare directive over my DH. I have help coming to the house now. For future reference, what is involved when you finally decide to place a LO? What if they refuse to go? I know right now my DH would resist. I always think when he doesn't remember me or our home. I know that may never be the case. Can someone tell me what steps they took? Thank you.
jackiem29, I believe that in most states if they refuse to go - even to the hospital, etc - unless you have guardianship - you can't force them. POA and directive doesn't work if they say "NO".
I believe that throughout north america no POA supercedes an individual's rights unless that person has been declared incompetent by locally recognized means or has been assigned a guardian by locally recognized means.
It's quite pliant generally that much is done on a POA alone or marital status without a POA. It depends on the indiviuals involved. I placed my wife on the agreement with my Alzheimer's case manager. The nursing home made a copy of my health POA. My wife's condition was obvious to the professionals so everyone went ahead.
It's also common that people placed react and that family is asked to stay away for a short while to give the patient an opportunity to become accustomed to their environment. So it's not uncommon for people placed to clearly demonstrate they don't want to be there at first. So it's a bit fuzzy depending on who's involved.
So as Vickie and Bluedaze point out, if they say NO a POA does not supercede that.
I recommend discussing this with his physician on the phone or in person. That doctor should be able to advise you or at the least give you the lead on who to call.
Just a comment on POA/DPOA. I was always advised by an attorney that in order to do something on behalf of a spouse, I needed a DPOA. Perhaps because both times DH was admitted to psych hospitals it was on a 72 hour involuntary commitment, but when they released him from the 1st psych hospital after 4 weeks, I made the decision to place him in an ALF. He didn't agree or disagree. I was able to do that on the DPOA.
I would contact an elder law atty to see what your options are legally.
I didn't think the POA would do anything. Or the healthcare directive. I was just stating I had those. My eldercare attorney informed me of how to apply for guardianship. I did not know you had to have that to place at some point. I didn't want to go for guardianship. I understand that he has rights and they are protecting them. So everyone here has gotten guardianship to place their lO?
jackie, Unless the law of your state requires it, it seems pretty extreme to get a guardianship for everyone who gets admitted to LTC. (Under a guardianship, you have continuing obligations to report to the court, etc. I would not want to do that because I am leery of allowing third parties to get involved in our lives.)
I placed my husband in a veteran's home about a month ago . Many months before that, I had provided the facility with his Durable Power of Attorney and Health Care Proxy. Under the law of our state, you can admit a person to a nursing home as long as the Durable Power of Attorney specifically provides for that. The issue, of course, is whether you are allowed to excercise the power in that document if the person objects.
No one ever asked me if he was agreeable to going in. Before he was put on the active list for admission, he was assessed by a nurse at the facility. Like Wolf's wife, my husband's condition was obvious to the professionals. He could not remember where he had grown up, how many siblings he had, or where he had lived or what he had done for work after he got out of the service.
On the day I brought him there, he did not have a chance to object because I did not tell him that he was moving out of our house and going to live in the veteran's home. I put a gym bag with a small amount of his stuff in the car the night before. When I brought him over the next morning, I left the bag in the car. A friend who is a geriatric care manager met us there and entertained him while I took care of business matters. I had lunch with him in the unit and the nurse suggested that he join an activity with the other men. While they were doing that, I retreived the bag from the car, put his stuff in his closet, and left. When I came back the next morning, he was confused and very glad to see me but did not object to being there. I'm not sure he even knows where he is anymore. But he does know me. Although he refers to me as "Mum" he introduces me as his wife.
My whole strategy was not to make a federal case out of it. Just ease him in. BTW, I was told that he would have an easier adjustment because he had been going to day care for 2 years and we also had a home health aide take him out every week. So he was used to being with other people and not hanging on to me al the time. If he had been at home with me 24/7, the move would have been a dramatic change.
Your husband may be more lucid than mine was so maybe this would not work for you.
Myrtle My DH is on and off lucid. He is beginning to forget family members names. He looks at me a lot like who are you. He has even asked me that several times in the last few months. I have an aide once a week now. I am goin to increase that soon. He is very attached to me. He is my shadow. I am trying to get him use to other people. You never know what might happen to me. That is a good idea to get him into some daycare activities. I do not intend on placing him until I have to start physically moving him or he is a threat to himself or me. Right now I just have to make sure his clothes are on and he has showered. He may not do either right, but he still tries by himself. I also do not want people controlling our finances and lives. We have done well for 30 years.
No one has ever talked about what they had to do legally when placing so I was not sure. Thanks everyone for answering. It gives me some things to think about and look into.
Jackie, my husband was quite lucid/cognizant when I decided to put him in an ALF, and he knew me. Our experience was similar to myrtle's....I didn't tell him in advance and he didn't object. They took him after evaluating him and my DPOA was enough. Like myrtle, I didn't want to become his legal guardian if I didn't have to. Of course he eloped 2 weeks later :P
Fortunately my wife agreed to go to an ALF and I didn't have to force her. And she is someone who should know her writes (paralegal and psychiatric editor).
But Copper Ridge insisted on two doctors stating that she is medically and financially incompetent before admitting her. Perhaps that is a way around requiring guardianship. But that could only be true in Maryland, I don't know.
My husband agreed to go into a nursing home because I told him going in then was his only chance of getting a single room. But I am dealing with similar issues for my severely developmentally disabled sister, who lives in Massachusetts. I took over from my mother as my sister's legal guardian a couple of years ago. She has recently broken her ankle and had to go into a nursing home for rehab. Under Massachusetts law, a guardian cannot make the decision to place a person into a nursing home long-term, that decision can only be made by the court. For a short term stay, the guardian only needs to inform the court of the placement (Page 5 of this document has an explanation http://www.massguardianshipassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/MGA-Fall-2012-final-9-26-12.pdf). There is a second procedure as well, which I gather is federal law, called Pre-Admission Screening Review, but the more complicated procedure is needed only if the person has a diagnosis of mental illness or mental retardation in addition to the diagnosis of dementia: http://www.senioranswers.org/index.php?q=node/70
Due to my husband's extreme medical condition, he went to a hospital followed by a rehab followed by an ALF where he died. I did not have guardianship/conservatorship but I was looking into it. The reason was that I knew the issue of placement was on the horizon.
I had the support and encouragement of his neuropsychologist and neuropsychiatrist and especially his general neurologist. But, I also had two differing legal opinions. They were each certified in elder care law but did not practice it exclusively. So, I consulted a lawyer who specialized in adult guardianship issues. Even that was very expensive- just the appointment to say nothing of the process. Like LFL and myrtle said, on no level did I want to do it.
I do want to mention though, that I did hospitalize my husband with my POA. I also think, but can't be sure, that Nikki posted here that she had guardianship of her husband, Lynn. If IIRC she said it was not especially expensive or time consuming. Others here can likely correct me on that or have more knowledge about it.