My wife has been in a care facility for 6 months. She's had extra care from outside caregivers, and seems pretty stable, although I'm sure on average she's going downhill. She's had 2 seizures about 2 months ago, but her medication has been altered to prevent seizures.
I unfortunately am having difficulties trying to figure out what kind of a life I want. I've had a problem with extreme loneliness ever since I was a teen. When my 1st wife tied 10 years ago, I was extremely lonely and had spells of loneliness even after I remarried to my current spouse. She was working fulltime then and I talked to her about cutting back so that I could have more time with my companion- she was going to do that, but AD got there first.
Since 2008 she stayed home all day; I was happy with that arrangement. She was always very agreeable in doing things mainly that I was interested in (spoiled also); her "friends" started to leave her as the disease interfered with normal social behavior on her part. We did do a lot of traveling, so now what?
I have been "dating" a number of women, but it seems that the sticking point in having a closer if not intimate relationship is that I'm still married. As I told a therapist once that I feel that I'm in a box, and the walls stay up until my wife is no longer alive OR I'm not married to her any more.
Until today, I would only casually refer to that 2nd option, feeling that I owed it to my wife if her life was so debilitated by her AD that the least I could is stay married to her. But, I then thought she wouldn't even know the difference if we were still married or not- I would still go to see her, maybe not as often. A huge label "Guilt" comes up when I think about this option but I have met some wonderful women who like me a lot and their net attitude is "you're still married" and they're looking to get remarried; many don't want to wait 3-4 years (based upon my wife's doctor, that is her life expectancy). Also, I would just be aging myself and be close to 80 by then, not a very good marriage prospect. She could also live longer than 4 more years; I don't see where sacrificing my potential future happiness by staying married to her, really helps anyone ?
I hear ya and I do not think you are alone. Many here have had great marriages and would never dream of divorcing their ill spouse. There are others of us I am sure that did not have great marriages and have - I know I have but financially I could never afford it.
It is a choice only you can make. First you need to talk with an attorney to see the legal ramifications of doing it. Is Medicaid paying her medical expenses? If so, you would need to see how they would view, what needs to be done -- an attorney specializing in Medicaid should be able to tell you. After you find out all the information, then you will know if you can or still want to.
Also, consider family and friends (if any are still around) reactions. If you divorce your wife because she is ill, would a woman want to chance marriage knowing you have abandoned one ill wife? I know you will not abandon her, will make sure she is well taken care of but some may see it as that.
Have you read Barry Petersen's story? Here is a link from an article in 2010 and then he has a book. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-petersen/can-a-marriage-die-even-w_b_622664.html
If you meet a woman who really wants to be with you, intimacy or not, she will be with you. She would understand that your wife is in a care facility, and to have you, without getting married to you at this time, would be enough. in my opinion, you would be better off with a woman like that, or wait to find who is. I agree with Charlotte re. friends and family reactions. There are a lot more women interested in 76-year-old men than there are 76-year-old men available. You'll find one who's willing to wait until after your wife dies, and who will hold you that much dearer that you did not divorce your ill wife.
In this day and age when so many couples are living together and never getting married I don't quite understand your thinking? People just don't care any more if you are legally married or not. Another thing to think about is at your age...sorry....you could be getting together with another person that can develop AZ and then you are in the same boat again. Do you divorce her?
I have to agree with Charlotte and Mary on this one.
I have known people whose spouse was well into AD and had another relationship at the same time. They never neglected or abandoned their AD spouse, but they kept living for themselves at the same time. Amber is right--in this day and age, who cares if you are married--or even whom you are married to--or how many? Sister Wives, My Five Wives, etc. Love has no boundaries. I know the vows we take and I do not diminish their sacred value and the feelings people have about that. We take those vows to forsake all others because we know it is possible to love more than one person, we willingly choose only one and for some, that is enough, illness or not. The good thing about living in a free society is that you can make your own choices, other people have theirs, we won't throw stones, that's something to be grateful for.
I agree with Amber and Betty....why do you want to divorce her? No one cares now if you're "living in sin", shacking up or whatever. Or is it because the women you meet want to marry? If so, you really should think about why that is. If your companionship is not enough and there's a vision of money in their future, why would you want that? Recent statistics state that increasing numbers of men/women over 70 are having "indiscriminate" and unprotected sex. Probably because no one can get pregnant.
Only you can decide what's best for you, but based on your posting, I ask you is it you who wants to be "unburdened" of the emotional and financial responsibilities of your wife or is it the women you meet? My guess is you can "have your cake and eat it too" if you meet the right women who truly cares about YOU. I don't believe it has to be a mutually exclusive decision unless you want to divorce her.
edited to add: I too was advised to consider divorce by the elderlaw atty I consulted right after husband's dx in order to keep my personal assets safe from Medicaid should he ever qualify. However divorcing someone who has a terminal illness is complicated; the courts have to appoint an atty for your spouse, all assets accumulated during the marriage are considered, including any pension benefits, social security, insurances, etc. and it is my understanding many courts consider what the person would need to pay for future care.
When my husband was given the DX and I had to find an elder care attorney to help with all sorts of issues, one suggestion to protect my assets was to seek a divorce. I said no to that. Why, you may wonder? I knew if the tables were reversed, he would never leave me! I took my wedding vows seriously ( not that you haven't) and there was more to this relationship. So I said no to that suggestion. It was not an easy ride, those 8+ years of care giving but with the support of a few very loyal friends I weathered it. At his funeral, I gave his eulogy and I ended it with "...he was the greatest gift I was ever given to have and to hold, from that day forward, for better or worse, in sickness or in health until 11 Aug at 0701 when once again God called him unto Himself again"..( I am Catholic) I think the advice to consider how family might feel and what ramifications might follow is worthy of thought. My marriage was my first and my husband's second. I inherited 3 kids that I raised with him. I think because I chose the path I did, my girls were and are 100% with me and they, as so many step kids can do, have never caused me one ounce of trouble or demands since their father's death. Had I done otherwise, my lovely relationship with them surely would not exist. I can understand the lonely feelings you have now and how you long for a normal life and that this set of circumstances robs you of the life you had planned with your wife were it not for this disease. In the end, the decision is entirely yours and no one here will judge you whatever you do. Some may differ with you but only you are walking in your moccasins.
Watchful7, your question requires careful consideration. A couple other points not yet bought up are as follows. One is: If the new companion supports your divorcing in order to marry her, would you feel secure that she would not do the same to you if you required Caregiving from her? The second is: Why should the new companion feel secure that you wouldn't do the same thing to her if she came to need Caregiving?
I think you need to think long and hard about this. In the meantime you can continue as you are--caring for your wife and living your own life. The choice is yours alone, to decide.
Because of multiple conditions I was my husband's Caregiver for 24 years, the last 6 officially because of VaD. Long ago on another Thread, we discussed whether Caregivers here would want/consider another marriage in their AFTER. Many said absolutely not...many because they didn't want to chance being a Caregiver again. My response was that I would welcome a new relationship, but it would be understood that, because of my own disability, there would be help onboard because I would not/will not let anyone shoulder my Care-receiving needs alone. As for being afraid to become a Caregiver again--it doesn't scare me. I've learned the ropes. I'm not afraid to take it on again if needed. Again though, I would bring In help from the start. It never crossed my mind to not Caregive my husband. There were times the idea to walk out the door and keep going did occur to me...but those were just bad days.
I did the best I could for us. That's all any of us can do. As I see it, that's what you need to decide---what is the best you can do for your wife and yourself.
Kinda sounds like you've already made up your mind to divorce your wife. Have you thought about which woman that "likes" you and wants to marry you to choose and are you in love with all of them.
Can you divorce someone in a NH with AD? How would they sign any kind of paper work? As the spouse we have DPOA, so how would this work? I am not trying to be a smarta&&. Started thinking about this today, and was wondering how it would work.
I imagine the court would appoint an attorney for the spouse in a NH to protect them. Also, bet Medicaid would be in the thick of it if the Medicaid is covering them. There are many things to consider and I hope we have helped throwing out angels to consider.
As I said, it is his life and is decision. Just a lot of things to consider when doing it. This is a hard journey with lots of hard and often painful decisions to make along the way.
Someone has the POA's and she is not aware so she is likely visibly incompetent in the legal sense. If a person with the POA is also the person seeking divorce, then there may be a conflict of interest where there may well need to be someone appointed as Charlotte said. Lawyers don't like being sued where ambiguity is apparent.
It's impossible for my wife to have any awareness of what's going on around her either. She would not be harmed if I moved on right now either so I agree with that part from personal soul searching.
Having gone through those arguments one other line of reasoning is that you should not have your own rights taken because of her condition. If she did not have AD you would have the right to divorce by personal choice. Your rights as a human being are not withdrawn because of her condition.
I'm on the phone with a divorce lawyer now (Canada). Ok. The moment I file for divorce my POA's become null and void as of that date. The court appoints an official guardian which in some states is called the 'representative attorney'. This is initiated by the filing for divorce where the court identifies the parties and their representatives. I would first file to have an official guardian appointed ideally as the precursor to filing for divorce which identifies that I am being responsible to her rights. At that point it's like any other divorce proceeding where the divorce is settled between the person filing for it and the official guardian. I may have to pay extra or a lump at the beginning from the base 50/50 rule if the official guardian challenges and wins the argument there isn't enough for her care.
(Don't be impressed. Two of the guys on the basketball team became lawyers one in divorce and both are quite strange so...I don't know a good electrician or plumber.)
As to anyone being willing to enter a serious relationship with someone as a late stage caregiver in dementia - the best answer is to ask ourselves - would we? Personally, I have to be honest and say it wouldn't be wanted but it may be worthwhile. That's the better point made numerous times here already.
There is also the point about age. Would I be this patient at 76 or so? I doubt it. Realistically waiting four years perhaps at that age is relevant especially for a male.
Some people when referring to something extremely contenious use distancing language where a casual option of divorce really means the unthinkable option of divorce. The person sounds disaffected but are actually quite agitated.
The bottom line is that no one can take your rights as a human being away. If you are married and wish to divorce it is your right to proceed with that in the approved manner.
Thank you Charlotte and Wolf for the information. AD just sucks, it destroys so many live. And Wolf, you bring up a very good point of do we (as the caregiver) lose our rights as a human along the way, and I would say in most cases. Yes we do. And it happens sometimes without us seeing it overtake us. Each one of us has to take our own path in this journey.
As long as watchful7's DW is safe and well cared for, what else can he do at this point for her. Moving on with his life is all that is left. There is no couple, two of them anymore. And this is his second wife that he has lost. I can understand the loneliness, and wanting someone.
I know we marry for better or worse. But the worst with AD is far worse than most can imagine.
"It happens sometimes without us seeing it overtake us."
Yes. In the majority of people it overtakes us. It overtook me. Which is why everywhere I post you can see that I try to nudge the actual problem and not the furniture (here it took me two trys).
The rediscovery of empowerment.
Notice if you read anything else I say on this topic generally that I'm not worried about getting a woman, I'm not worried about still being married, and that I'm aware of the mutuality of tests that must be passed for a good relationship to have a chance. I had to discover all that over time because I was married as a teenager and it never occurred to me I would have to think about these things.
And most importantly, that I'm still on the road to rediscovering my own empowerment to where I'm convinced I've returned to a neutrality in seeing things and feeling things both in myself and in the people around me.
Watchful7 needs to feel that empowerment to have a chance at seeing what he might really want and then authorize himself to pursue it.
I need to be vigilant about fairness. I want fairness for me and so I have to offer it too. So I will point out that I'm too smart to trade half our estate for a few years where we have been fortunate but redeploying with half would never be the same at all. That would apply even more if I were 75+ not less.
Watchful7 should post his situation on local appropriate bulleting boards with the little tabs below with his phone number so readers can pull off a tab should they want that number. He will get calls I would be willing to bet and those women would already know.
EDIT - be careful if doing something like that that you can distinguish charlatans.
Caregiving can and does overtake us...sometimes sneaking up on us and sometimes holding us hostage. And when we are in the darkest days of caregiving many if not all of us feel like we have no choices at all about our own well-being, but we do. How many of us have said "I can't do this anymore?" How many of us have actually acted on it to free ourselves of the caregiving role? I don't know the answer but of course watchful7 has rights as a human being. If he wants to divorce his wife, it's his decision. He won't be the first and certainly not the last to leave a sick spouse.
Caregiving did sneak up on me and hold me hostage for years. There were plenty of dark days, but I would have never left him or moved him away from me. I made a commitment and I did not take it lightly or I would have never married him in the first place. When he was dxd, I promised I would be with him to the end and I was. There is endless peace in that. That was just me.
watchful you have had plenty of opinions and questions to ask yourself. Maybe some are angles you have not thought about. I hope you have read them.
Most important: do what you can live with. Only you can answer that question so that whatever choice you make, you will have peace. I am only 61 and have no idea how I will feel at 70, 80 or even 90.
My situation: My husband had been ill for 10 years, and not known me for 2. I met someone wonderful and understanding. We became a pair. I agree with some of the other posters that it is certainly possible to find a partner who understands your commitment to being primary overseer of your wife's care, and is willing to partner with you under those conditions. Weigh your personal values and decide what to do. My priorities were: do no emotional harm, and keep on living.
....Watchful...........I've been following this discussion since the start, so now I think I'll give you my two cents worth. ....I am not offering you any advice.......Just telling you of my own experience. When Helen and I were at about the stage you are in, she would not have cared one way or the other about what I did. ....She would ask me who I was and how I got into the house. I would tell her "I'm your husband, George".... Then she would say "You're not George" and I would have to tell her "I'm the other George".....She would only accept me as the "Other George" ....Sometimes she would ask me "Where's George?"...and I would give her a suitable answer.....In bed at night she would say "I'm not supposed to be sleeping with you", and "What if George finds out about us?"....Then there were times when she would tell me that George was mean to her... ....In my care giving, If I was trying to get her to do something or not do something when she was resisting, I was always the real George and she would get out on the streets saying she was going out to get a divorce......... ....I think when I was going through this, I was about 15 years older than you are, Watchful, and a divorce never entered my mind, but if it did, I would have had no guilt about it whatsoever as long as my new lady understood that I would never quit loving or caring for my Dear Helen..........And for the new lady that I would choose....She would want it to be that way. ...............Your alzheimerspouse friend GeorgieBoy
For us, Alzheimer's arrived in the guise of the behaviours which Gord had always had only more so. By the time I wanted to talk and change things, it was too late. Still, I could never have left him nor divorced him. My vows were for better or worse. As a widow, I would run like the wind from someone who divorced their spouse who was ill. I would know that I could never count on them to be there for me. Just saying....
jang, the same for us. Rich's behaviors were the same only more so, he was in his early 50's and I thought "classic mid-life crisis". By the time I was ready to divorce him (who needs this shit???), he started physically abusing me and then threatened suicide if I left him. 2 months later, we got a dx of pre-senile dementia. The rest is history. I still had a choice but decided not to divorce him. Perhaps that decision was better for him than me but it was my decision inspite of all the pressure I got to preserve what I had for my own future.
LFL, we seem to think alike. When I married my wonderful, older man, I made a personal commitment that I was going into it with my eyes open and would stay with him no matter what. Obviously the 25 year age difference was going to bite us in the toe sooner or later. The only scenario I absolutely didn't want was Alzheimers…I felt like I could handle anything else, but not Alzheimers. Well, guess what?! Here I am 19 years later, patrolling poop at midnight and just as exhausted, lonely, and miserable as anybody else on this forum. Ho-hum, another day, another Depends. : 0 )
A dear relative of mine, my best friend actually, brought this up to me, as she is very concerned about my anxiety & sadness. I had never really thought of it - it's given me pause & caused me to do some thinking. In the end, I don't think I would ever be able to do this. I am Dan's second wife (married for 48 years now) & I don't think he would be able to take another "loss". That first one is buried somewhere deep in that confused mind. I know for sure that I would lose the respect of family members, & that would really be hard for me to live with. I think I would disrespect myself. As many times as I would like to hit Dan in the head with a cast iron pan, I don't think I could divorce him. As for Watchful7, whatever woman would go into a relationship with him. wouldn't she eventually become angry or disillusioned when she didn't have 100% of his attention, she would have to share it with his ex-wife (or current wife, as the case may be) I personally would not allow myself to live that way - I couldn't take it! Just sayin'