I haven't written in about 3 months now because things have been all topsy turvy. A friend of my H planned behind my back to move him to live in Seattle Washington with his daughter. He has been there since the end of November and sometime in December was moved into an apartment in Seattle. I am left penniless and confused. The SS office said wherever he goes goes his money and there is nothing I can do about it. His daughter holds the purse strings and the power of attorney that I had means NOTHING! I called elder-care lawyer and they said the only thing I could do is get a legal divorce because his daughter is the boss. What did these people do and how did they do it so completely to the point that there is nothing I can do about it. I don't understand!!!! In the meantime I have foodstamps and Medicaid and have a lawyer to get on SSD. That is about it! I have a friend who is helping me. She and her husband have been my rock, without them I would not have made it. I am seeing a psychiatrist and have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder, major depression and panic disorder.
I just thought that I should tell you in case you thought I totally disappeared. Thank you all for your friendship! It has meant the world to me.
deb42657 I am so sorry you are going through this. This is my worse fear with my DH. It is stressful enough without people interfering. I am not sure what they have done. I have checked with an elder care attorney and looked into getting guardianship and conservatorship. This process does go through the courts. I don't know how long you have been married. I don't know if this is an option you want to try. I know in my state that they would serve DH with papers and appoint him an attorney I he could not get one in 10 days. All of his children would be notified and would attend. No other family or friends could attend unless you approve. I would hope that the court would realize how these people manipulated him.
My MIL and SIL took my DH and had him sign a paper revolving my POA. I took him and had it reinstated. If they do anything else we will be in court and they will not be able to attend.
Thank you so much jackiem, I would have never considered any of these things happening in my wildest dreams but now I know there is someone else going through the same thing or at least similar enough to know I am not alone. I wanted to be able to take care of him until he died but that is not an option any more. The daughter told me a few days ago that she would know by May what his expenses are and will give me whatever is left over! Right! I don't believe her as far as I can throw her but I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt and wait until the end of May and if I haven't heard from her or been given an income by then I will have to file for divorce with no other option. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do it because when he dies I would not get a widow's pension but... Thanks for the prayers, I need every last one of them.
Glad you finally let us know what happened. We all have been wondering and worried about you.
What about a legal separation instead of divorce? You could have it set up so you are not responsible for any bills he might run up (or more like the kids).
Deb, thanks for the update; so very sorry this has happened to you. I just can't believe that your husband's friend and daughter were able to do this and there's nothing you can do about it. Perhaps consultation with another attorney might yield a different response and action plan? I'm speechless knowing this can happen and leave you so destitute.
I like Charlotte's suggestion of a legal separation instead of a divorce...is that possible? Hey you'd be within your rights to claim abandonment.
No real helpful advice but know I am thinking about you and praying your situation improves. So sorry you have to live with this. (((HUGS)))
Just did a quick check, on my way out the door. If you are divorced and were married over 10 years. You can still collect on ex SS at 62. Please check my info, I hope this may help.
I second LFL's suggestion that you get a second opinion. Also, "Get the best lawyer around." I had to do this. I got the second lawyer's name from a lawyer. It's like medicine: if a doctor gets sick, he chooses the doctor who gets the best results. I'm really rooting for you!
Hi Deb. glad you checked in. I know many of us have been concerned for you.I profess I am no legal expert, but my own personal opinion is as follows. at any rate if hes now living in Seattle under his daughters care-I think I would consult a divorce atty just to find out your options. New Mexico is a community property state. meaning half of everything accrued during your marriage would be entitled to you. his pensions may be in question as to the amounts but in some instances you could work out something during a divorce to overcome this. likewise if you have been married 10yrs you can claim SS at 62. plus if you hold POA and they try to make a new one. you could always question the validity of that if hes unable to qualify mentally. even if he does a new one or revokes it to give poa to the daughter now, it could still be questionable at this point. depends on how eager you are to retain the poa. you may be better off by filing for the divorce and work out a solution under the property laws. I would also ask the atty about abandonment as well. leaving you without a way to survive could well be considered against him whether ill or not. you have options, you should get qualified advice from a good atty. if you bought your home after married that also would be community property and all furnishings. cars the same. bank accts the same. you may find you have better options than you think. just my input, but I highly recommend you find out what you can do. my best divvi
I am sorry for all you are going through but am glad you found your way back to us.
In some ways, the state of Washington is different from many other states. Like New Mexico, it is a community property state. But, unlike NM it does not have strict residency requirements for conducting legal business such as separation and divorce. For NM, the requirement is six months directly preceding the action. Washington seems much more vague as residency does not have a specific time limit- it is usually interpreted as "intent" to live there.
That just caught me from your initial post on this topic- the time your husband has been in Washington since late November and his daughter's focus on the end of May. Also, let's just say he revoked the poa with you...in WA the person who has poa can possibly be an agent in terms of wills. This is just my mind meandering.
As others here posted, I suggest you get another legal opinion. I had two with elder care lawyers and one was very different from the other (who seemed to feel that trusts were the answer to everything and everyone). Long story, but still another lawyer advised me to consult with a guardianship specialist who was $$$ and partially agreed and disagreed with the other two.
I remember another poster here who said that her experience with guardianship was not especially complicated or expensive. I don't want to speak for anyone else but what I took away from that is that experiences can be so different.
I have heard, but only in passing, that if a guardianship action is held in family court it can be confidential but if it is heard in district court it is open to the public.
Deb, I too do not claim to be a legal expert. However, you mentioned "pension" and if you are referring to a private pension, you should find out your rights to benefits before you simply file for divorce. Since you have been married for over 10 years, you will qualify for SS, but not until 62, unless you become a widow - then I think it is 60 (but there are many restrictions regarding widow status). I realize you don't have money to throw around, but you really need to seek advice from a lawyer who can tell you the best route to take. At the moment, you are free from the daily care of your husband, but he could return as quickly as he left. I would use this time to get all your 'ducks in a row'. Good luck.
Hi Deb, I will offer the same advice to you as I did ginaginaz. If you're seriously considering a divorce, you might want to discuss the possibility of a QDRO (qualified domestic relations order) with a divorce attorney. If your husband has a qualified pension under ERISA from an employer, you maybe eligible to some portion of benefits from his pension under a QDRO after your divorce. This needs to be set up and negotiated as part of the divorce settlement, so it's good to find out what you might be entitled to in advance. I agree with the others...get the best attorney and explore your options.
abby* has some interesting points about Washington state requirements...I have no knowledge about WA laws and requirements but something does concern me. I feel there's got to be some legal requirement for 6 months residency or something where you could totally lose your rights. The daughter knows that the 6 months is required (Nov-May) but is not telling you why and what impact it will have on you. I am very suspicious.
Also make sure you start the divorce, keep the ball in your court, also your state! He walked out on you, left you with nothing. You should be able to get his SS, half of any pension, and half of any property. Keep all of this to yourself. DO NOT give him or his family any indication of what you are doing. Sounds like the daughter is trying to pull something over on you. Do your best to keep that from happening. And get this started before May!!!!!!!! You do not want to be traveling to his state to take care of this.
Ditto to what Blue just said. Keep this to yourself. You said that a friend of yours has assisted the daughter. Go legal. They might also bring charges on the daughter for taking him out of state in his mental condition w/o your permission. You do get the SS no matter what.
Deb, I found a helpful website for you to look at www.washingtonlawhelp.org/resource/ending-your-marriage. It has a good publication "Ending Your Marriage or Domestic Partnership in Washington without Children". It also has a lot of other helpful information about filing for divorce (dissolution) in the other person does not live in Washington, etc.
Under the section "filing for legal separation of marriage or domestic partnership" it has a very interesting statement which I believe is the reason your husband's daughter gave you a late May 2014 date (6 months). It says "Anytime AFTER 6 MONTHS have passed after filing of the decree for legal separation, either party may file a motion with the court to change the decree of legal separation to a decree of dissolution (divorce)".
I am suspicious that your husband's daughter and his friend have had him file for a legal separation with the intent of changing the legal separation decree to a decree of dissolution when the 6 months have passed. Washington state has a no-fault divorce law and I believe the reason for divorce is stated as irreconcilable differences.
If in fact this is what they are planning, you absolutely need to see a very good family law (divorce attorney) soon so you can preserve your rights and what benefits you should be entitled to, like ss, pension, etc. Do not wait until May!
And by all means, keep this to yourself so they have no idea what you know and what you're doing. Looks to me like you have no other choice but to go legal now.
oh yeah, she'll know what his expenses are by the end of May...because he will have divorced you.
Good luck...I don't mean to add to your stress but I want you to be protected from these vultures.
Deb - Just some thoughts that came to me....I wonder how his daughter and his friend will handle everything when he gets really bad and have to start paying for all his expenses?....I believe that once she takes over everything she is then financially responsible for his care......Or how she'll do on poop patrol or when he gets hasty? Or when he can't stay alone any more and she has to move him in with her or be charged with elder abuse? or keeps asking her the same question over and over and over? or when she has to stop living her life so she can take care of him...year after year after year..... I'm sure other long suffering caregiver can add to this list.
It all totally sucks but once the legal stuff is sorted out you might come out of this farther ahead.
LFL - divorce is not always that easy. My DIL had a legal separation from my son for over 2 years. She tried to change it to divorce but he refused to sign the papers (he lives in OK now). Now she has to get an attorney which she is trying to connect up with a law student at Gonzaga in Spokane. If you have no money try to find a paralegal or law student.
Charlotte, since you have experience with this in Washington state I'll defer to you. But if you read what's posted on the website I reference, it says if either person (petitioner or respondent) can request the legal separation decree be changed to a dissolution decree the courts MUST honor the request.
That's why I truly hope Deb can find a competent attorney that can help her. I am truly just trying to help...of course I am not a lawyer and don't pretend to be but I am worried about Deb's future.
I know it says that but why it did not work for my DIL I have no idea.
Deb is in another state so it will be the laws of her state that matter. That is unless the daughter got the husband to file for divorce. In that case Deb would have to be served with papers no matter where she is. If they claim they could not find her, it has to be put in the paper for I think 30 days. Deb might want to google her/his name and see if any notice shows up.
I agree she needs to find someone ASAP to protect what is left. Maybe if it is a private pension, notify them that he has 'ran away' and she believes unethical people are trying to take his money. Maybe that will put any freeze on it.
Washington south Dakota and Alaska are the only 3 states that don't require 6mo-180 days prior to prove residency. that could mean anyone who lives there could file legals without having to prove residency. i would assume that includes legal proceedings.
deb if you are reading you should get to an atty asap. you would be much better off iniciating any proceedings you go for from your own home state. none of us are legal experts here, but just jotting down our own ideas on this subject of course. you need qualified options from a legal expert where you live. good luck. divvi
Don't get mad...get even!!! I assume since you had POA, he was considered incapacitated in some way. Use that and find a good lawyer and give it your best shot. That is all you can do. Please be satisfied with that no matter the outcome. Hugs, Deb, and show her who you are!
Thank you so much for all the responses and the prayers are always good. I feel all the hugs and it is helping a lot. I have been married for 17 years and if I were in my 60's this would be much more dangerous. We don't have any assets or even any property that means much. All the bills are in my name but I didn't think about any bills that he might have, I would assume those would be in his name only. The daughter doesn't have my telephone number or new address so if they filed for divorce they would have to put it in the newspaper because I am not going to give them that information. Divvi, I am 56 years old and by the time I am 62 he well probably be dead anyway so I am not sure at this point if I even care if he files for divorce or I do it. If I had a lot of money or a lot of assets it would be different I am sure. Lfl, I had all kinds of light bulbs go off in my head when you said that about May being when she could tell me what money I would be getting and for some reason when I read your post I was actually happy...yes, the thought of him divorcing me instead of me divorcing him gives me a sense of vindication because I did NOTHING wrong, all I did was try to take care of him for 17 years and to pay me back for that HE divorces me? I don't care how sick he is or if his daughter totally convinced him into it because he can't make a decision on his own. My hands are clean!!!! My conscience is clear and I sleep at night(sort of!!!)
Thanks again everyone and I won't take so long next time to write! haha
Deb, thanks for responding. I'm a "fighter" by nature, so I aiways come from the perspective that I need to take action (probably even when I don't need to :>) ) I support you in whatever you decide is best for you, but please give this a lot of thought because you will be impacted by the decision he and his daughter make, and you don't really know what they have planned. And if you're working, he would be entitled to some of what you earn.
BIG HUGS, glad you're sleeping better.
Edited to add: As amber says, you could be on the hook for any debts he has or incurs while you're still legally married, even if the bill is in his name only. When my husband became delinquent on a credit card, the card company collected the money owed from me because he had put me on as an "authorized" user. I never used the card and was not the owner of the card (his name only) but they came after me, which my attorney advised was perfectly legal.
Deb - I'm not sure of the laws in the states but from what other members wrote if you do not divorce him then you could be on the hook for his medical bills. Also any bills he is racking up now you are responsible for 50% or more. I'm the same age as you and we have a lot of years ahead of us and I sure wouldn't want to be looking at big bills that I am responsible for. He abandoned you!!! Cut the ties, let the daughter have the headaches.
Deb, Please be careful. Do your research and do not let this situation get out of your control. I am sending prayers of strength to you. Please take care of yourself. You are worth the work this will take. So much good advice here, let us help you.
So far I haven't been able to find a lawyer that will take my case pro bono. I do not work and have no idea how to proceed legally. His daughter is a school teacher at a private school, she says that she doesn't have a lot of money either but she has more than I do! Amber, I am for sure going to let her have all the headaches!! She never believed me when I told her how bad he is but now she is going to find out first hand. I have a friend here that thinks that she is afraid of me because she doesn't know what I am going to do. I don't respond to her emails or give her my personal information that she has no need to know. All I can say is unless I can find a lawyer that can take me on pro bono I am done, with no choice. I will keep looking though but I think I am running out of time.
Deb, contact the bar association of your state and the legal aid society. Check http://apps.americanbar.org/legalservices/probono/directory.html# or www.probono.net. There's a good article on www.lawguru.com search how to find a pro bono lawyer.
I'll email joan with my personal email and ask her to send it to you. I will be happy to try and find resources for you to call to help if you need me too. I know there is help out there for you...you just have to find it.
Edited to add: If you want to get a portion of the pension he's getting from a previous employer, you must submit a qualified domestic relations order (QDRO) as part of the divorce settlement, otherwise you're out of luck. If yo take no action at all, then you will lose benefits you would have been entitled to.
deb - here in Washington my DIL was able to get free filing of a legal separation that said from the day my son walked out she was no longer responsible for any of his debt from that day forward.
She was also able to get free assistance from them for filing because my DIL did. You definitely need to get a legal separation to protect yourself from his bills.. Sounds like she would be the type to come after you for the rent, utilities, medical and whatever she thinks she can get from you (even though you don't have anything).
From what I found online by googling 'NM divorce assistance' you can file online. I did not research any further, but also check with the county courts to see if they have free legal help.
Please do not disappear again because we worry about you - you are family here.
Deb - so sorry for all your problems - don't know how you can cope with so much treachery, but it is amazing the support and information given on this site, and all from different angles - makes you believe that there are good people around - Can't add anything, but sincerely wish you the best.
Absolutely legal aid. IF not then senior legal aid, each state has a different name. you can also go get the papers and file them yourself. you do not need a third party to file the paperwork. What about a local law school? If not pro-bono then at least with a small retainer and they can recoup some of the money you might receive. Just do something, do not be a victim for his daughter, this is what she is expecting you to do. Hugs to you and please please keep in touch, we do worry about you.
LFL, thank you very much for the websites! I have already looked into them and I live in Chaves county and they do not have any probono lawyers at all which makes perfect sense to me because Chaves county is probably one of the smallest counties in New Mexico. Marg75, that is exactly what this is, it is treachery because the person who helped him is an elder in my church and this has caused an investigation within the church also because of all of his deceit and yes, treachery. That kind of behavior should not be allowed among leaders in the church. So for me this is a double and even triple treachery and not only am I dealing with the husband, wife problem I am also dealing with this as well. That's why I say that it might be just as well that he starts the divorce first, that doesn't mean that I don't need to financially protect myself but I just haven't found a way to do that yet but I am not going to stop looking.
Sheeseeker50, what is senior legal aid? Is it the same as elder care? A local law school! I never even thought of that! Right now the only thing I can do is pray a lot and follow up on all the advice I get. I am already a victim of his daughter, I was a victim of her even before I knew any of this was going on that is why I have been diagnosed with PTSD.
Thank you everyone for caring about what happens to me. For a long time you have been the only ones that did. I love you all and I will keep you informed every step of the way like I have been for several years now. We all need to stick together.
deb42657, If any doctor has anything written in the medical records relating to dementia, I doubt him being legally able to sign a new poa, divorce paper or any legal papers. Maybe another place to look is the Americans with Disabilities Org. for help. Wonder if the daughter is trying to get control of his monthly income for herself and not looking at his best interests? They could help you find that out.
Another possibility is criminal action if he was moved away from you and it can be determined that he wasn't competent. I would not pursue this route before speaking with an attorney. There might not be any grounds and it might be a path with unforeseen potholes. I am only mentioning this because of what you mentioned of this third party and that others find this immoral (though not necessarily illegal). But now I wonder if we are entering the realm of elder abuse or kidnapping.
Legal aid holds divorce clinics in Albuquerque office twice a month. You might call them and see if they know of help closer to you for low income. At the clinic you even fill out the divorce papers
Carolyn, I feel like I am missing something...the dr. did record the dementia, the neurologist confirmed, so even with help from a third party how did he even get there? I can understand it better if his daughter would have come here in person and taken him away which would be kidnapping but that is not the way it happened. I would need an investigator in order to prove elder abuse. I am not sure what to do but I have to do something.
If you want to make sure he is being taken care of, maybe contact adult services in Seattle and tell them what happened. Maybe they can at least check on him for you.
Deb42657, Have you thought about calling the police and reporting him missing? If you know the address of the daughter, of course, give it to them. Explain everything you know about the situation to them. That poa she has is not worth anything IF dr., and neurologist have recorded the dementia. Bring him back, have him admitted to a nh. With you being the spouse, you'll be given a large portion of his s/s ck. You can possibly take the part of the s/s awarded to him and use it to make the house more comfortable. The gov. and nh work under the assumption that he's going to return home. That's why they allow you to use his part of the s/s ck. Big Thing....... Probably not what you want to hear........... But........ since you are the legal guardian of him, could you have a problem by not reporting this? You are his one and only legal guardian and with dementia, he can't change it.
There is just something nawing at me that doesn't compute! How was a 76 year old man with Lewy-Body dementia/Alzheimer's able to get on a plane all the way to Washington and make it there safely without any incidents? When he was here he was becoming violent and had been argumentative and irrational for a long time. Other people saw the change, could he have really controlled that long enough to get there? I know, hypothetical questions, but still questions non the less. Before he left there were three women that were all in his life in one way or another and it was making me very suspicious. One of them even asked me if I loved my husband! Strange question to ask don't you think?
Even if he could come back I don't want him back! I am done! I have devoted over a decade of my life taking care of him and no one taking care of me! I am very angry and if he had the strength to leave me then so be it!!!!!!!!!!!! It is now his daughters problem and I am going to have to treat him like he was just a man who left me and I am going to have to divorce him before he divorces me. I can't think of anything else to do.
If I really thought that his daughter had kidnapped him and he did not go of his own free will I would try something else. Even though he had lots of help leaving, how did he have the presence of mind to ask for the help in the first place? I don't think anyone forced him on the plane. When he left, he wasn't upset or anything, he packed his own suitcase. I don't understand how he was even able to do that. I watched him do it! What is wrong here?
Deb, I can't answer your questions, but if it were me, I'd really want to find out what's going on. I have many questions, but only you can decide what to do. Why did you let him go in the first place? Sounds to me that someone convinced him to go , but at this stage I am very confused about what really happened and perhaps you are too. What stage do you think he's in? My DH couldn't pack a bag by himself after stage 4, and he was very with it in stage 4 & 5. Some thing's not right here...
I have faced similar questions, and people have said, "It was the disease that made him go along with what was being set up." However, it was part of his personality to be duplicitous. (Sorry to say it, but I saw it more than once and in different situations.) I finally concluded that my husband's ex and his children used this tendency of his to get done they wanted. If it's any comfort to you, in time my husband saw what had happened. When he did, it was a great sadness to him. He didn't dwell on it, but he knew and was grateful that my daughter and I saw him through to the end. Would you consider the possibility that he, a man who has dementia and therefore no longer able to reason, was talked into it by one or more people? If that were true, would it change what you would do? I think that your number one priority is to protect yourself, and many have given excellent suggestions. After that is taken care of, you can look at what's left and decide what to do. Best wishes.
mary, my H has always been very duplicitous, to the point that for example someone will tell him I think you should shave your beard and he would say "yes, I think so too and then 5 minutes later someone else will say "I don't think you should shave your beard and he would say "Your right, I don't think I will."
Yes, I do think that was used for others benefit. I don't know if he would now feel sorry about what happened though because he hasn't tried to contact me and I haven't contacted him. I think the elder that helped him was talking to his daughter about how he was being treated, in his opinion. His daughter did come and visit us twice and she thought I was killing him because I would not make him eat or exercise but she didn't take him with her at that time, 2 years ago.
LFL, I don't know what stage he was in but based on the documented proof of symptoms the violence is one of the later stages and we think it is possible that he has had the disease for at least 10 years.
I am still looking into how to protect myself, I know that it will have to be a legal route. I will let you know my findings. I am not going to roll over and play dead.
Deb, you probably know that he didn't just think and plan all this by himself. How long were you guys married? Have you used your poa to check any and all bank accounts or any source of money?
"I don't know if he would now feel sorry about what happened though because he hasn't tried to contact me and I haven't contacted him."
This won't come for a while. It takes time for true colours to show. In the meantime, yes, don't roll over and play dead. We all wish the best for you.
mary, that makes sense to me because legally in New Mexico I can't even get a divorce on abandonment until he is gone for 1 year. Carolyn, do you know how I could use my poa to find out about any other accounts? As far as I know my poa is null and void, that isn't true? Charlotte, good idea about changing the password.
Linda, I have always suspected that they did something illegal and I think what I could do is ask the lawyer a hypothetical question and give the senerio and ask him if that would be illegal. That way I am not necessarily wanting to press charges just find out if it is illegal and then if they tell me it is then decide. I am just really torn and upset right now. All I know, right now, is I don't want him back and if I find out what they did and that it was illegal then I may need to take him back. I can't think about that right now! It depresses me to know end thinking that he would be coming back.
I am famous (or infamous) for being brutally honest. That being said, if you don't want him back, do nothing and just let him go. And wherever he goes, his money goes, too. Sad fact.
deb, we all know right now you are torn between not wanting him back, him and his family out of your life - and not being taken. I imagine right now your thoughts and emotions are going in every direction possible. All that makes it extremely hard to decide what to do, is there any part of you that cares if he is OK or being used (the hurt and pain of it all would makes this really hard to care); and where to go from here. And do you really care if it was legal or illegal which goes back to do you really care about him? So many emotions and so many unanswered question.
If you want, you can email me (see in info) his name and I will search and keep an eye out here in Washington to see if anything legal gets posted.
Deb I'm afraid I agree with Linda. does it matter about him or what they have done or the money? What is important is you and getting on with your life without all this intrigue and drama. You sound like you are a very able person. Look after you. Get this bunch out of your life. You are a very important person, so let go and live, girl. Remember you didn't cause this