My H has been getting very violent lately and I have been trying to get him admitted in a nursing home but it just isn't happening no matter what I do. Now he has decided to leave me and go live with his daughter. His daughter doesn't even believe he is sick. Her plan is to find him an apartment to live at where she lives. The arrangements were all done behind my back and even though I have POA it doesn't seem to matter. My first inclination is to just let it happen and at least she will see for herself what he is like on a 24 hour basis. I am tired of being beat up just because he won't cooperate with me. She is sending him a plane ticket to fly to Seattle Washington on his own next week...What a laugh! He'll never make it! He can't even reason on anything how is he going to make it on his own. I hate to say it but right now I DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!!
A POA doesn't allow you to overrule your husband's directions. He can withdraw the POA at any time.
I think his daughter has to see how he really is.
This may sound cold but use this time to rest. Let her take responsibility. There is a risk, but there is a risk to everything. You have to decide if you want to enable this move or leave all packing, etc up to him. This will make his problems more evident to her, assuming he can get on the plane.
Once you take a breath you can work on Plan B. Once his daughter admits that he has a problem get prepared for your next step. Perhaps you need guardianship.
I agree with you paulc 100% If power of attorney doesn't work how is guardianship going to work and second of all how do I get it? I definitely need the rest...mentally, emotionally, physically, it is going to take a long time to feel like myself again.
you will need to get an attorney to get guardianship started. my advice is by no means from a professional standpoint as I am not an attorney either but its a long lengthy and sometimes pricey decision. plus they will assign an attorney for your DH as well to protect his interests I am sure. its my understanding once you have guardianship its meaning the courts have decided he isn't able to make his own decisions and you must in his best interests. so if you have guardianship you can place him involuntarily if he resists all help and is violent. others here will have more input who have gone this route. if you decided to go the separation intent, live separately from him possible preparing for divorce proceedings? that would help protect your interests I am not sure but consulting an attorney at this point I think is prudent either way you go. I think if it were me, I would let the daughter know you feel that he is unable to travel alone and if she wants him that's ok but come get him to relieve your liablility of allowing him to go alone. at least I would do it this way to show you had good intent on his behalf. anything can happen in an airport on or a flight. esp if hes already showing aggression. officials wont tolerate an outburst and well if hes arrested or gets lost, there you have more problems. at least if you deliver him safely to the daughter you have made sure he got to her. then she can handle it from there. It wont be long she will see the evident truths. good luck. never easy to deal with these issues. divvi
I agree with Divvi- make sure he gets to the daughter,so you are not feeling guilty if something happens before he gets to her. Then it will be a waiting game to see how long before SHE see the truth. Sorry you are having it so tough right now. Bye the way in WV it is extremely hard to place a violent person in a nursing home!!
In my unprofessional opinion and I did not sleep at the Holiday Inn last night!!! I would just let him go. DO not start any legal paperwork unless it is a legal separation, b/c if you do start the guardianship papers and he hurts someone or himself in the plane, airport, etc. you would be liable. Does this make sense? I would put an index card in his wallet, coat pocket etc. with the daughters name, address and phone number so she can be contacted when the poop hits the fan. Sorry that you are facing this but once he leaves just turn off the phone and get some rest for the next round that is sure to come.
I agree with divvi. Guardianship would allow you control over his life, but expect it to cost at least $5,000 and don't do it unless doctors and lawyer feel it is a slam dunk. Last thing you need is him acting normal when in front of a judge.
The idea of having the daughter travel with him is a good idea, but she doesn't see a problem with him.
Seeing a lawyer in any case is a good idea since you can be held financially liable for things he does away.
You have been given very good advice from everyone here. My two-bits worth is based on a similar experience with my stepchildren. You need to do everything you can to protect your husband's safety: express your concerns to his doctor, lawyer, social worker. And put it in writing. Because that's the second thing you need to do: protect yourself. You need to show that you have acted in a responsible manner throughout. If anything should happen -God forbid - you need to be able to document that you did everything possible to safeguard your husband's well being and safety. I've been in this position, and I had to constantly ask myself: how will this look if they being me to court? In the end, they hung themselves with their own rope. The other hurdle I had to get over was: how could my husband cooperate like this with them? I finally accepted the fact that it was the Alzheimer's affecting his judgement, and they took full advantage of that. Given enough rope and time, as long as you do your best for both your husband and you, you will win in the end.
It must be so frustrating, to say the least. You have been twisting yourself into a pretzel doing the best with a more than challenging situation and now along comes something else. There is no alternative that is ideal, so it is a matter of somehow dealing with this new difficulty.
If it was for me to vote, I would say have his daughter come and get him. If I remember correctly, you are in NM so this is not exactly a minor trip. How do you evaluate his ability to act through the TSA process if he is alone? Is he familiar with it? For that matter, how would he do if either she or you were with him?
Guardianship and Medicaid were two of my greatest fears and I consulted more than one elder care attorney because of differing advice. Expensive yes, and time consuming as well. It is a court procedure- could be in family court or district court. Regardless of the age there is a guardian ad litem appointed who will not necessarily direct care but will have a say in it. They have an ongoing charge as well.
One of the lawyers advised divorce to me but also with the caveat that it would be long and expensive. I understood, but am not sure, that divorce would have also required not only a representing attorney but possibly an ad litem for him as well. I'm just going to throw out one more thing- what about the daughter getting guardianship?
Please take care and rest as much as you can.
edited to add: I found a site. www.friendshipcircle.org that deals with airline travel. It is dated 2005- but I just thought I would mention it here in case you want to take a look at it.
deb, you have been given good advice and you should follow much of it. YOU need to demonstrate that you are "keeping him safe" because you know he has dementia. So, have daughter come get him and accompany him on the flight or make other arrangements (aide traveling with him, etc.) because if he does not get there safely, YOU will be responsible as his wife, POA. Daughter will say she didn't know and expected YOU to make sure he was safe.
Once he is there safely, make sure you tell her he is in HER care and SHE is responsible for him. I would do that verbally and in writing (email since it is dated and time stamped). You do need to see an attorney right away...you should anticipate and expect that she will take him to an attorney and try to have the POA changed to her and based on what you've told us, he will probably agree. Can you get a letter from his doctor stating that he has dementia, is no longer capable of making informed decisions? Or at least a copy of his diagnosis and a letter from his doctor?
I am most concerned about your liability...you will be the one who is found negligent and not keeping him safe by allowing him to travel alone when there is documentation that he is no longer able to make informed decisions. Why don't you get a letter from his doctor stating his illness and prognosis and give that to the daughter BEFORE he leaves?
I am most concerned about you...you know the daughter will be the first to blame you if something happens. I can hear her now "I didn't know, she never showed us medical documentation, I was just trying to help, he was so unhappy, we never spoke with his doctor and she never shared his medical file/diagnosis." She will do EVERYTHING she can to blame you. He cannot make this trip alone and you shouldn't allow him.
There is another BIG problem some spice have had in the past - besides the liability....MONEY
Children have been known to have daddy or mommy sign a new will leaving them everything; change the beneficiary on the life insurance policies; deed the house to them!!!!
PLEASE seek out an attorney to protect yourself both legally and financially.
It cost one lady $250,000. It cost another her house. Do not delay.
When I contacted an elder care attorney in Georgia, guardianship is over the person and conservatorship is over finances. They are appointed an attorney if they have not gotten one in 5 days. May have been 3 days. All children are also informed that this has been filed. I was told if I was POA and health care directive it would be in my favor when it went to court. It was not going to cost much unless contested by family. You have to have documents from his doctor within 15 days and the court will also have a court appointed doctor evaluate them. There are time frames to all of it. I bet if he makes it to her, he will not be there long. Good luck and enjoy a rest. My DH would not make it to the airport. He could not figure out how to get there or make it through security. He cannot fix a bowl of cereal. Again good luck.
To add to the concerns about the daughter having him sign papers, move as much money as possible beyond his access.
So this bring up an associated issue, should you have him declared incompetent (this goes along with guardianship and conservatorship). This is the only way to prevent anyone else from having him sign papers. I know someone who's stepchildren happened to bring him to a notary public when taking him out to lunch, it cost $5,000 in legal fees to get the judge to declare the stepchildren's POA null because he decided that her husband didn't have mental capacity to sign those papers.
This goes for property,too. My lawyer put a lien (?) on our house, which meant it could not be sold without difficulty. My lawyer said the kids and ex-wife could try to talk my husband into selling his half of the house. When he died, I removed the lien. My stepchildren took my husband out of the care facility at 8:00 am. and down to a lawyer in Gastown on the waterfront, said, "Daddy is having problems in his marriage and wants us to have POA." The lawyer had never met my husband before. Here was an 87-year-old man with dementia brought before him into his office, and he asked no questions. He gave them POA, said he would not see them again, and sent them on their merry way. They went straight to the two banks where my husband held accounts and cleaned out both accounts of very large amounts. I didn't know until my cheques started bouncing. I took immediate steps for guardianship, went to the Supreme Court and was granted it 5 months later, in spite of the kids' opposition. It cost plenty in time and money, but it was the only way to protect my husband and me.
My mother in Law and sister in law was in denial. We had been to the neurologist and she said we needed POA and Health Care directives. We went to an attorney and had them drawn up for DH and myself. I listed our oldest daughter as mine. I am my DH's with daughter as back up. He had 2 children from a previous marriage and we have 2. But his mom was the problem. My MIL and SIL took DH on a trip. They started on him of what would I do with the house and money. We have been married 29 years. I had removed the guns from the house and had told them at the time I did it. Then they started on the trip, if she took the guns what else will she take. So one day he was mad at me and was at her house, and they took him to a random attorney and had my POA revoked. I went ballistic. We had an appointment for testing on Monday and they asked if we had a POA and I said we had one. We went straight back to the attorney and had to pay another $250 to have it drawn up again. I do not associate much with these people now. I have worked our entire marriage, until now, because of taking care of him. They do not want to take care of him. There needs to be something in place that we do not have to worry about these things. If they step out of line again, I will get guardianship and conservatorship. I will also ask for supervised visitation for any of them. My SIL has apologized, but my MIL has not. I still do not trust any of them.
All the assets we have, we worked for together. His first wife got what she could in their divorce 32 years ago.
I still get mad thinking about what they have put me through since the beginning of this. It has been 9 years since diagnosis and they were in denial for the first 7. My DH is 61 and his mom is 85. His son calls once every 6 month and lives 1 hour away. His daughter lives out of state and calls maybe the same. Our 2 daughters call daily and the one that lives in our state is home every other weekend and the one out of state is home 4 times a year. They care, the others do not. When ours comes home they stay with him so that I can have some time alone.
sorry I am rambling, these situations really get me worked up!
I agree that if she insist, then she must come and travel with him. Also, as said, move as much money to where he can't access it nor can they have paperwork done to get a hold of it. I would also have her sign documents that while he is with her she is financially responsible for all his expenses.
Deb, I am sorry you are going through this ((Hugs)) I have never had to deal with this so I have no advice on what you should or should not do. But I did want to chime in that I DID get guardianship for Lynn and I had NO lawyer and it did not cost me a penny!!!! The court did appoint Lynn an attorney, which did not cost us anything. It was an extremely easy process.
Well, my H is leaving in less than 2 days and I can't stop it. I tried too even though I feel like I am placing him in a NH I am not. He is going to be clear across the US and I am not going to get to visit him and I was looking forward to having that feeling of having a better relationship with him. That was taken from me and I feel very sad about that. I feel like a failure!
(((hugs))) Deb, you are not a failure. You have tried your best but between this disease and the daughter they are winning. Now to pray he gets there safely without any problems and she finds a way to keep him safe. I would try to sneak a note in his pocket or something explaining his problem in case he causes trouble in the airport or on the plane.
Make sure to take precautions to protect your finances from him and your daughter.
Oh, the airport in Seattle can be very confusing. Sure hope she is meeting him when he gets off the plane. In 2010 when he was still pretty good, hb went to the bathroom and could not find his way back to the gate we were at even though the gate was within eyesight of the bathroom. Thank goodness for the cell phone.
Deb42657, I am so sorry that you feel that this has happened without your consent. However, I feel that letting him go and letting the daughter get a little of taste of what is really going on will solve the issue. He will be back in no time. Take this time to re-group and re-juvenate for the return. You are in no way a failure. you have made a good faith effort to do everything possible for him. You are a wonderful wife and caregiver. Have a great respite.
Deb42657, I have been thinking about you and your dH all week, and wondering if he made it to his daughter's place safely, and if you are now in a position to enjoy the respite instead of worrying about what is going on.
Add me to this list. Deb, considering the whole umbrella of issues, flying in general, the relationship of you, your H and his daughter, the Thanksgiving weekend and the weather all add up to extreme stress.
Of course you are not a failure- you are full of courage, compassion and dedication!
I too, hope you get the chance to let us know how things are....