The nurse that came out today asked if Lynn's POA's was activated. I had never heard of such a thing. I guess I just assumed if one has AD it is a given that the POA is in effect. She asked that our Neurologist write a statement that Lynn is no longer able to make decisions, she said this would activate the POA. Anyone ever have to do this?
I've wondered the same thing when I've heard the terms "activate, or invoke." I asked our atty here in Washington state, just last tuesday. He said it's "in effect now." I would be able to sign for DH right now, for whatever, if he were unavailable. I wouldn't have to prove he was "unable, incapacitated, unwilling, etc." I know these rules can and DO differ from state to state.
I was a bit surprised by the question to tell you the truth. I have never had anyone else ask for proof of the POA being active. I have signed his name on many legal documents, all they ever required was a copy of the POA.
Nikki, it was "activated" the moment he signed it! I guess that nurse might have been confused. The hospitals have other forms to be filled out and I wonder if she was thinking of another one! The hospital's attorney could assure her that your POA is in effect! <grin>
Nikki, when the POA becomes "active" depends on what the POA says. Sometimes, a POA gives you powers the minute it's signed. Sometimes, it will give you powers if your husband is just sick. Sometimes, you don't have any authority unless and until a doctor (or sometimes two doctors) agree that your husband is mentally incapacitated.
hi Mary, see that is just what I thought too! But it isn't the case. She had her computer right there and she showed me where it clearly stated it had to be activated by a doctor, stating he no longer had the capacity to make medical decisions. He couldn't draw a clock and told you the same story 10 times in as many minutes, but it isn't CLEAR he isn't capable??? Floored me. She said until I had the doctors note "activating" it, he could refuse any and all treatment. Odd huh?
Thank you Sunshyne, she never even looked at it. I don't know maybe it is a medicaid law? or a New Hampshire medicaid law? I did look up the medical POA and it does say “ This Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care shall take effect in the event I become unable to make my own health care choices.” So, I guess just because it is obvious to us, by law that fact needs to be expressed by a doctor? I wonder if this is why the nurse at the VA said he could refuse testing for colon cancer and medication for high cholesterol.
Oh, my, Nikki. It should be easy to get his doctor to sign. I was lucky that medical was included in my general Durable Power of Attorney. I guess Medicaid rules are different.
Ah. Well, there are indeed certain things that cannot be done just on the basis of a POA, such as forcing your spouse to enter an AD facility against his will, or forcing him to undergo medical procedures he doesn't want. Sometimes you even have to go the route of petitioning for guardianship/conservatorship. And even then, you have to petition for special authorities to make him take certain types of meds or be placed. My papers allow me to make decisions on my husband's medical care, but if and when the time comes that I can no longer care for him at home, I'll have to go back to court for that.
WOOOOWEEEE... I thought I was feeling a little light-headed ... nope, just initial tremors leading up to the "real" earthquake ... Mercy. Think I'll go google to find out where that hit and how big it was. 'Scuse me.
Goodness, hope the quake isn't too bad...YIKES. Mary I already had the medical one, so the lawyer didn't include it in the general DPOA. It is my understanding, after I get a note for the neurologist to activate the medical DPOA, that then I can make all of Lynn's decisions regardless of if he tries to refuse. I could be wrong? But I thought that was the whole point of a DPOA?
I was already told by the VA that they did not need Lynn's permission if I felt he needed to be placed in a nursing home, it was based on my decisions alone due to the AD.
For those of you who haven't experienced an earthquake, you can get an idea of how big and how far away by how the quake feels. Short and sharp, it's nearby, but if it's longer and rolling, it's a biggie someplace further away. (I had thought we'd had a baby one here yesterday, and in checking the site, confirmed it. Tiny thing, surprised I felt it at all. http://quake.wr.usgs.gov )
My husband said he was watching the patio furniture rocking and wondering why when the major shock waves started to "hit". (Wonder why my cat didn't act up? In the past, my cats have acted stressed for a few minutes before a big one.)
Nikki, you can do what they let you do. Laws vary in different states.
DPOAs can be revoked, so I think it could be argued that someone protesting the decisions made by his assigned representative is revoking the DPOA, unless doctors and/or the courts intervene.
Nikki, you might want to check with the VA - they want a paper where the AD patient says that he is not able to make decisions for himself and gives that authority to you, and then they will answer your questions, put checks in both names, you can do everything for him, and afterwards, they will have everything in place for just you. At least that is what I was told. It's not a POA, it's even better! <grin>
My SIL is a lawyer, and he says that all your info will be in the POA language. Some POAs take effect immediately, some need to be 'activiated'. Different states have different regulations.
POA is just stating who gets power to do business for (and as) you. Some people give POAs if they have a business and want the spouse or certain employee to be able to do business, or if they are out of the country. Adding the word 'durable' means that the power exists past someone's incapacitation. There are also 'springing' POAs that take effect differently. Medical POAs do not grant financial POA, and vice versa.
Even with a medical POA, things like electroshock therapy, getting someone an abortion, and being committed to a mental facility aren't doable, instead of needing proof of a guardianship. These are serious medical issues that they want to make sure you aren't just abusing the person. With admission to a NH, the NH might not even want more than the DPOA. If you are trying to put a person in a NH that is screaming "No! I'm perfectly fine! She can't do this to me!" and they seem fine, you'd have to show a guardianship to show why this person should be put in. Our NH never asked for a guardianship, because there was no disputing the fact that DW needed to be there.
Thank you trisinger, that NOW makes sense. I called my lawyer, the general DPOA took effect the day we both signed it, but he said the medical DPOA is only in effect when he is unable to make his own medical choices. .. and though most people would take my word for it and can clearly tell within a min or two he does not have the capability that an official declaration from the neurologist would be best. Whew got that all figured out lol
Mary, the VA asked for his DPOA and then we filled out all sorts of paperwork years ago. After my first TIA they were trying to convince me to put him in their NH. I explained that he wasn’t ready, and they told me even if Lynn didn’t want to go, I could place him. I don’t plan on ever doing that, God willing. But it is good to know. I know Lynn and he WOULD be kicking screaming and cursing the day I was ever born lol
I guess I've been fortunate. Except for stupid things like utility bills I say I have DPOA (I do) ant that's all I've ever needed. My atty and broker are in the same building and communicate with each other. I sign pension checks with both our names and the bank knows our situation. As a nurse I know all Bill's doctors and they have never asked for permission to disclose information. Of course I am the one who took Bill to see them. During Bill's hospitalizations the staff looked to me for all decisions related to care. Now don't tell anyone where we live because I don't want to cause trouble :-)
Yes Blue me too, that is what threw me for a loop today. I sign all legal documents for him, the doctors talk with me in private etc etc, this is the first time anyone has ever asked if it was activated. So, I am going to call the doctor for a letter, keep it right with the DPOAs, just in case it ever comes up again
it really does come down to being trusted. The POA is just a way to CYA for the banks and other institutions. If you are from a small town where everyone knows your situation, you are less likely to be asked. It all depends on how likely the bank or other institution thinks you would sue them if things went wrong. Large cities, places that don't know you personally, you're more likely to be asked.
Good point trisinger. I am from a very small town, and in fact was in management at the local bank before I became disabled. Am thinking with Medicaid, they are big business!! Perhaps that IS why it came up.
I also have both business & medical POA for my husband. I sign his name & write by Kadee, POA. Or as when we sold our house, I signed his name by Kadee Atty in Fact, then my name as a co-owner.....I didn't think I would ever get through all the paperwork.
In simple terms, a regular power of attorney is for you to act on the other persons half with their approval. It does not apply when they are unable to make decisions for themselves. The durable power of attorney is for when they cannot make around decisions and that is why you might need a judge's signature on it. But it can be more complex. When talking with my wife's retirement fund, they asked for a POA with a judge's signature, but when they saw the POA which had no judge's signature, they said it was fine.so my lawyer did a good job of writing up the POA. We have a separate medical POA and you can always do a medical POA without a lawyer, they are designed to be done to the medical system. When I place my wife into and ALF, I did have to supply to doctors declaring her incompetent.
In the U.S., every state has its own law about durable powers of attorney and guardianships. In Massachusetts, you don't need a judge's signature on a durable power of attorney (in fact, there is no procedure for you to get one) and you don't need to "activate" it (although that may be required by Medicaid - I don't know). Anyhow, Jazzy lives in Canada (Ontario, I think), so if there is an issue about the DPOA, the law of that province would apply.
My husband's is written so it became active the minute he signed it. It is a DPOA which gives me medical, financial and all other powers. In Washington they need to be notarized to be valid which the attorney or any notary can do.
Our Lawyer told me that it was in effect the minute it was signed. I have control of everything.
He told me today before I took him back that he only said what he did because he was mad at me and wanted to hurt me. When I asked him why he was mad at me he had no idea what he was mad about. Loosing all short term.
It varies from state to state. In South Carolina it must be registered with the court when the person can no longer make their own decisions. Nursing homes and such took it without it being registered, but banks wanted to see the stamp from the court
I knew...that upon death of course the DPOA is finished. However, after Dado died at some point with the arrangements, I made a comment about the DPOA. The person, (it may have been the funeral home), said, that it is no longer valid. Oh..it hit me hard, yes of course. He is gone.