LFL....I'm so stressed out that I'm finding it difficult to absorb and remember all that has been written from everyone. So please comment on what you think of me doing the step of No Contact. Am I only sticking my petrified head in the sand and looking to just avoid him? Or is it the wise thing to do for me emotionally?? Last week, I again begged him to go to the doctor and even offered to pay for all tests and bills. He adamantly refused ....saying he is FINE AND NOTHING'S WRONG WITH HIM. I ALSO tried to bring up the subject again to one of my sons last week, he adamantly refuses to even discuss it with me. All he cruelly says is DADDY LOVES YOU AND YOU'RE JUST PARANOID. And he was the son who always loved and came to me for advice in his life. His friends can't even believe his new attitude of coldness to me. He doesn't want me to even talk about his father to him anymore.
Gina, I really cannot advise you about the no contact other than to say if you feel in any way threatened while he's in your presence then the logical action is not to see him or be with him. But as an earlier poster said, just because you and he are not living together doesn't mean you are not liable should anything happen to someone because of his actions or if something happens to him.
Do you have a member of the clergy (priest, minister, rabbi, etc) that you feel comfortable speaking with? Perhaps that person can help you deal with the emotional distress you're suffering now and might even have some concrete suggestions on what local resources might be available to help you and get your husband to a doctor for diagnosis and treatment.
Try to call the local chapter of the Alzheimer Association and speak with them about strategies to get your husband to a doctor and available resources in your area. In fact you might want to call the hotline today and just talk with an experience volunteer, they just might be able to offer some immediate advice. If nothing else they will listen to your concerns. The number is
I had a long conversation with a dear friend in Staten Island, and she knows my dh and both sons so well forever. She seems to think my one son's change in personality is quite questionable and perhaps he's frightened by the history of this with my husband's father and older brother.....and that may be why he doesn't even want to discuss it. She suggests I try getting through to my other son for an intervention with dh. I'm contemplating that. Maybe, if I can convince him, he can talk to his brother. I realize I mustn't give up on trying to get them to have an intervention for dh to get tested. I so hate to just give up and crawl away in tears from the man I have loved for 47 years, who also always showed me great love too. Will give it another try with my son and see how far I get. I will still pursue seeking legal advice as to legal separation laws in Arizona and how they may benefit me, rather than divorce. In the interim, thank you all for your helpful and wise advice and compassion.
I would love to meet with you. I will be contacting you via email tomorrow. I have been very busy as my husband as been battling an infection and I am 100% percent his only caretaker. He is doing better this afternoon. If you don't get an email by tomorrow noon check your span box it will be titled "Alzheimer's spouse". I will provide you my phone number and we can girl talk!
Try to take some time to rest and clear your mind....a bubble bath or maybe treat yourself to a pedicure. You need to mentally break away from this for a few. I know it's easier said then done, but LFL and others will testify that I was in a similar toxic relationship only 8 months ago. I was a physical wreck!!!! I am learning to forgive and forget the wrongs that were done. I am learning to realize that this is a disease that holds ALL prisoners (if you allow it to). This disease is destroying and slowly killing your husband. It is a terminal disease with no cure. It will take you down too if you allow it.
I am so happy to hear that we will be in touch as soon as time allows you. I found out that Peoria is only 34 miles from Chandler. Yay!!! I realize you are a full time and only caretaker, and even if we can only talk on the phone, it will be a Godsend for me. I will definitely look forward to "meeting" you. And my deepest gratitude for any time you take out of your hectic day to talk to me at some point.
Gina, what will be changed if your husband has a positive diagnosis?
Right now, knowing the history of his father, he is probably very frightened of the possibility of having cognitive problems. As long as he doesn't see a doctor, he can deny what the future might hold. Just consider the fact that he may be acting out of fear. I didn't realize some of my husband's feelings until, after he died, I found some things he had written in the early years of his decline.
TO LORI......I've thought about that and would hope that since he has the symptoms of FTD, perhaps the right meds, that I've read about here... could help with the temper tantrums and mood swings. I've read how some of the spouses mellowed out with proper meds and that would be something to hope for. I don't know.....all I know is that I do still love him and I'm probably grasping at straws. Some friends say I should be happy he lives on his own and is still willing to come and help with my home.....and not have to deal with his Jekyll and Hyde. But it literally kills me when he comes like a service technician and then leaves. And that's how I always weaken and end up letting him back home again. So if he won't go for a dx, then I really have to stop seeing him completely. I will need to make the break once and for all.....for my sanity. I do think you may be correct in saying he may be fearful and is in denial. When your husband first started showing problems, was he in denial???? to you and himself????? Is that what you mean when you said you found things he wrote in the early years??? Lori.....I want to thank you so much for your thought-provoking input and offer of helpful advice.
Gina, Sorry i didnt mean to come off like you hadnt tried. I t really wasnt a snap for me getting my DH to doctors. It was a very difficult period in my life. I had to be very devious. I know he had Alzheimers, I am a RN, and have dealt with it on many occasions in my career. I was just determined to get him on some medicine. Hang in there. He is going to have a meltdown of some kind, where he will land up in the mental ward or some such place and he will be diagnosed. He is also running from it himself I think, from what you have said about relatives with it. I wouldnt do anything drastic, just try to have a little peace now, and be there for him when the meltdown comes. God Bless!
I don't know if you check your email regularly ( I don't). But after talking with you yesterday I emailed you some contacts in the area who I have found to be most helpful. I will also talk to the Alzheimer's Navigator at todays meeting and I'll get her contact information.
TO KY CAREGVER.....Well, I tried again sending him a very heartfelt email, explaining everything and how his behavior has been affecting me physically and emotionally, which he already knows. I asked to please just take an MRI for US, or I just can't stand the hurt and will just not see him again. Well, he adamantly refused, nothing's wrong with him, it's me that changed, we could be so happy again because he loves me and wants to be with me forever. Totally in denial is all I can see. I then went to my son and forwarded him the email I sent dh. My son is sorrowful for me, but offered no intervention or even discussing it with his father. So I guess I will just have to keep my distance, for my sake, and wait to hear about a meltdown at some point, like you said, Ky. Then maybe my 2 sons will believe me and help me help their father. Thank you so much for your kind advice. TO LULLIEBIRD....It was such a pleasure to speak with you yesterday. I have sent you an email this morning.
TO LFL....I first would like to tell you I so appreciate the wonderful advice you have given me, especially regarding the pension situation. I followed your advice. F first thing this morning I called his company in New York, spoke to the Retiree Benefits Dept. and explained what I need to have mailed to us. Well, they said I was not the retiree and therefore, they would only discuss it with him. And to make it worse, they put me on hold 3 times, because they didn't even know what I was asking for. And if you know anything about how awful some New Yorkers can be, even though I knew enough to be calm and pleasant, they were the rudest on the phone to me. There is no way I can even ask dh to call them. He will flip out totally at me over this. I will keep trying other methods you suggested to gather the information I need. But thank you again and know I so appreciate your advice and compassion.
Gina, first of all, it's great that you took the first step...congratulations! Unfortunately many companies will not give out information to someone other than the employee/retiree due to privacy concerns. The reason is that many spouses (both sexes) call in requesting information (health benefits, pension benefits, etc) and then use that as part of the divorce settlement. I'm sorry I should have warned you that was a possibility.
Did your husband leave his paperwork and files at your home? By law the company has to give every employee and/or retiree the summary plan descriptions on health plans and pension plans. You might just have the information somewhere at home. Was your husband by any chance represented by a labor union? If so, you could contact the union local and ask them for copies...the company must share the plan documents with the union. If he was not represented by a union, do you have any friends that worked in the same company with him who might have the documents or would be willing to call the company and request copies and then send them to you once they receive them? If those tactics don't work then I believe an attorney would be able to get the documents if (s)he called advising them that (s)he was representing you in a legal matter, but the benefits people may contact your husband to confirm there are legal proceedings between you and him.
If you cannot get them on your own, I think you should consult an attorney and see what your options are. I am truly sorry this attempt did not work. I'll keep thinking for another way.
TO LFL.....I have all the paperwork we were given when he retired. It only shows the option he took and how they came to the appropriate payment of each monthly check. That's all we received then. About a month ago, I had my husband call and ask for information on all his retiree benefits for medical and pension. All they sent him was a book regarding Medical Benefits.....and about 3 pages entitled "Explanation of Retirement and Payment Options." No help there. He did belong to a union in New York but after all these years, I can't even remember the name. He lost contact with former retirees once we moved to Arizona, so that's out. Maybe I will send a letter to his Benefits Dept. in his name asking for a "complete summary" of the Pension Plan. Thanx again LFL. Your help is invaluable!!!!
Oh ginaginaz my heart is breaking for you and for all of us here.
Over a year ago my DH became increasingly violent and irrational. I saw 5 different doctors, the police were involved, ER visits, etc. They all would listen to my concerns and then look at DH sitting calmly beside me and say "He looks fine now!". Just by coincidence I had him in the specialist's office the day he tried to jump off the 12th floor balcony and still the doctor said "He seems fine now." I told my sons how concerned I was about their father's crazy behaviour. One stopped talking to his father because he hated him that he was "abusing" me (even though we had been married 30 years and this was new) and the other one told me "I don't want to hear about your marriage troubles, this is not my burden to carry." Neither one understood that this was an illness that we were dealing with and not just bad behaviour.
Yes, yes we can be SO alone with this disease. It is very unfair. My DH had cancer a few years ago and I was offered lots of support but people just do not want to face how bad this disease can be or that it could claim them next I think.
I'm glad you found this site. This is one of the few places where you can share and people actually do "get it". I'm sorry you need to be here but welcome. You are not alone anymore.
TO RING.....Please know, after reading your horror story, my heart is breaking for you too. All of us on here are suffering so much anguish and sorrow. I can so identify with your plight. But at least everyone of the wonderful people on here, help us know we are not crazy, paranoid, or living in a nightmare. This stuff is REAL and even the most imaginative horror book author couldn't come up with the horror we are all trying to live with and live through. I thank you for your welcoming me and it is a real comfort to know I am not alone.
ginaginaz, do you have durable power of attorney for your hb? If so, call the pension company and say that you have power of attorney, can you use that to gain access to your husband's files. Even then they may demand that your husband fill out paperwork of their own to give you permission to access the information. Do you think you could get your husband to sign it? You could just say he needs to sign it to get pension information. So far I've been lucky in this regard.
paulc is right...if you have DPOA and it has in the document that you have authority to make decisions regarding pension/retirement plans you have a right to the information. They may require a separate document be signed as paul says. I did the same thing as paul.
I forge hubby signature on all paper work....he doesn't understand and I'm not fighting with him. Practice his signature and write a letter that's what I would try to do.
TO........PAULC, LFL, AMBER REGARDING POWERS OF ATTORNEY............What I have is a DURABLE POWER OF ATTORNEY........EFFECTIVE UPON DISABILITY...... which states I will NEED a letter from his doctor supporting such disability. However, when I again, JUST THIS WEEK, tried my best to get him to go for tests, he again adamantly refused. And without a dx, THERE IS NO DISABILITY....SO IT'S WORTHLESS TO ME. :0( Right?????? I do appreciate your kind and helpful suggestions to me, but I just keep banging into brick walls. And I'm scared to sign his name and do it all behind his back, because if he does get contacted by his company about it, he will FLIP OUT AT ME!!!! Keep in mind when I told him I wanted a divorce last month, he balked and said no because there's stil hope that I ( meaning ME!!!!! ) will change. So if he finds out I am pursuing this path, he will become my biggest enemy, and that's the last thing I need at this juncture. But thanx again, dear friends.
Regarding the DPOA (Durable Power of Attorney)---if you have one from your previous state of New York you need a durable power of attorney which complies with Arizona State Law. There are several DPOA's in Arizona...two of which apply to health. You will need a Mental Health Power of Attorney along with a Physical Health Power of Attorney, and also a Financial Power of Attorney.
I had a difficult time getting my husband to sign the "durable" powers of attorneys. I had to personal pay for them myself and also agreed that I would allow him to have the three "durables" for myself. After I had this drawn up I revolted mine (Fiblets must be used in obtaining end results when dealing with Alzheimer's). As I mentioned in an email previously sent...a paralegal office here in the state is able to draw them up at a faction of the cost as an attorney's office.
If and when you get his consent these MUST be stored in a safety deposit box or safe. After he is deemed "mental incapacity" it's too late to get him to sign a "DPOA". Without the health DPOA (mental and physical) due to HIPPA laws you will never be able to assess you husband's medical records regardless unless you obtain "guardianship" which is extremely expensive. Guardianship requires a court hearing (lengthy time) and all family member must be notified. In addition, he must be legally represented by an attorney (at your cost). All this could be avoided by getting these "Durable Powers of Attorney"
Time: Currently time is still on your side. You need to get all your plans in order now before it's too late!
Oh Gina....one more thing... YOU ARE TALKING TO A DISEASE AND NOT HIM! You can't reason with a disease so fiblets (medically necessary lies) are necessary.
TO LFL and LULLIEBIRD.......All of our legal documents were done here in Arizona. If I try to get him sign anything new or ADDITONAL he is stil cognizant and cunning enough to be hesitant and suspicious. Can't risk him knowing or even suspecting what I am doing or contemplating at this juncture. Keep in mind, he knows I think he is sick with dementia. And he knows I told him I wanted a divorce last month. When "my potentially" medical issues are retested next month, I will then consult with an attorney.... unless the tests for me come back in a way I am fearing and dreading.....in which case, I won't do anything but worry about surviving whatever they find with my third followup tests for both of my medical problems and worries. But of course, my sincere thanks for your support and most helpful advice. Next month tests will determine which path I take. Again, my thanx for EVERYONE'S HELP AND COMPASSIONATE ASSISTANCE TO ME. YOU ARE ALL ANGELS, ESPECIALLY THE WONDERFUL GAL WHO STARTED THIS FORUM!!!!!!
Gina, my heart goes out to you. I never had to deal with the issues you are going through because I always handled all the money matters in our household & my DH NEVER acknowledged that there was anything wrong with him, even after the Neurologist told him that he had early dementia. And after a few times trying to talk to him about his memory problems I just decided to not mention it anymore. After he refused to go back to the neurologist our family doctor prescribed the AD meds until he was placed last October. Even though he never acknowledged that anything was wrong he was very headstrong & he wouldn't do ANTHING if I suggested it & of course that was the disease coming through. So I KNOW what you are going through as far as your DH not doing things you want (& need) him to do. I just want you to know that from what you have been posting it seems like you are doing the best you can in your situation & that is ALL that you can do. I send you (((HUGS)). Keep us informed as to your situation.
If he wants to come back home then tell him he has to go to the doctor and he has to get all the paper work signed.
I would just take hubby to lawyers and doctors and talk over him because I couldn't get anything done by discussing it with him. Unfortunately you end up being a hard a** and treating them like a whiny brat which is what they turn into. My hubby is stage 5 and early 6 and though he will admit to being forgetful he wouldn't accept that he has alzheimers and what is going to happen to him or what it is doing to me as the caregiver.
ELAINEH......iLike you, I also handled all the money matters, but never had to be involved in attempting divorce and still be eligible (as a non spouse) to received his pension checks in the event of his death. Who ever even thought about that??? We had such a great marriage for 40 years, I never anticipated getting divorced and then forfeiting what a spouse would be entitled to in the even of his death. He's not only headstrong BUT has become so contrary...If I like any TV show, he hates them, if I say it needs salt, he says it's way too salty, if I'm hot, he's cold,etc. I can't do or say anything right in his eyes anymore. It's so sad that they don't even have ability to see what's happening, OR if they do, they just hide in a state of denial. I think my dh is like yours in this respect, Elaine. I think he does know, but would rather blame me then face the awful truth. But I do appreciate and thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words to me.
AMBER......Been there, done that .....again this past week. Told him if he doesn't go to a doctor, I never want to see him anymore. He adamantly refused and said I am putting a log in the road of our marriage. And wanted to know why do I do that????? You are so lucky that you were able to get your husband to go for a dx. In my case, it just seems impossible!!! They say ignorance is bliss.....for them YES...for us NO. But my thanx to you for your advice.