My wife was diagnosed at age 53 and is now 58, late stage 5 or early 6. I am 60, a father, a practicing lawyer and owner of a small ranch. We recently hired a companion 6 hours per day, 4 days per week, but I am still her primary caregiver. It has been tough keeping all these balls in the air (so far, reduced income has been the primary impact). Soon, a nursing home will be the only option.
Loyalty as a personal value has always run strong in my lineage. Though marital relations is in the very distant past for me, I have been an honorable husband for 33 years now. Though I know some men have divorced their wives stricken with this disease, I can't.
My wife's projected life expectancy, according to her specialist, is 70 years (another 12 years) because she is so physically healthy. Although I can't ever divorce her, I know there will come a time when I will want to develop another relationship. If I was the one stricken with Early Onset, I believe my wife would do the same (she was too full of life, and too pretty, not to).
Which leads to my question: Will a woman having similar traditional values ever have an interest in a relationship with me when I refuse to divorce (abandon) my wife? I know about the TV reporter Barry Peterson, but I don't know if he divorced, and I don't think that his singular example provides much guidance. Thank you for any input.
I myself would not divorce my DH nor would I look for a new relationship. I am in my 70 's. You have come to the right place to get some comments on your question. They are great here As to wether you should or should not look for a new relationship is something that only you can decide. It must be very difficult when you are so young to be faced with this life that you have no choice in. You sound like a very loving and considerate husband and person. There are lots of men on this site and they are very caring and helpful. The ladies are also very caring and will tell it as it is as well. They have all been around on this journey for sometime.
welcome attorney. there are many men here who can offer you more opinions on how this may work out from a mans perspectives. there may indeed be many ladies out there knowing your circumstances would be able to have a relationship with someone in our unique circumstances but being upfront and truthful is crucial in a situation like this. there are a few blogs of late dealing with this precise issue. there are many opinions from our members here weighing the pros/cons of such relationships. personally abandoning or divorcing the ill spouse isn't a choice for most of us. glad you found the group and hopefully you will find a lot of support and info from members who walk the walk. divvi
welcome, attorney The topic of dating/relationships has certainly been discussed on this message board previously, and the topic usually provides lively discussion. I have brought another thread on the topic "ttt" (to the top) for you. Personally, I have no thoughts of entering into another relationship - I care for my husband pretty much 24/7 at home (he is in stage 5 currently) and although we have not had the best relationship in the 37 years we have been married, I am in it for the long haul. But, I am sure that other members will step forward to offer their thoughts on your post.
Attorney-- Also see this thread where I have discussed my experience a little bit: http://thealzheimerspouse.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5693&page=1
I feel similarly to you--love my husband, have been a single-mindedly loyal spouse and eventually caregiver for decades, and at the beginning of this year decided (with the encouragement of key family members,) that I would accept a new relationship in my life.
I am "in it for the long haul." There is not the slightest chance that I would neglect my husband's care, nor would my partner ever expect such a thing.
Yes, as has been said, opinions very greatly. But I think Barry Peterson is far from being an isolated case. In fact I would speculate that it's precisely these questions we have about what is "right" and how will the world perceive us that keep people from being as forthcoming about this kind of situation as Barry has been.
I respect everyone's absolute right to make this call for him/herself. So I wouldn't want to come across as encouraging this option for anyone who isn't comfortable, but at the same time, by remaining silent maybe I'd be withholding support and fellowship from someone who'd benefit from hearing about it.
For me, it's been a strong net positive. My husband is in stage 7 but you are right--we have no way of knowing how the course of the illness will progress. My guy friend and I are both in our 50s. He knew and cared for my husband, knows and is welcomed by my husband's family and our children, and the support we've gotten from friends and the community has been a beautiful thing.
Attorney--First of all, I think age has a lot to do with one's opinion on this subject. I'm in a similar position as Emily, except that I'm 64 and my husband is 68. I would like to add that my new partner not only supports me emotionally regarding my husband's situation, but my devotion to Steve is one of the things he admires about me. When we first met, he kept saying "I can't imagine how strong you are to face this every day for all these years."
My answer to your question, based on my experience, would be that yes, there are women who would respect you all the more for continuing to care for your wife. Of course, there would be some who wouldn't be comfortable with the situation, but many would. I must add that a new relationship was not even remotely on my radar until I had taken care of my husband for 6 years at home, moved him to an ALF and sufficient time had passed that I was sure the move would be permanent (6 mos. to a year). He is in Stage 7, but still knows me and is more like my child now.
A recent thread that may be of interest was "closed". A first I've witnessed on this site http://thealzheimerspouse.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7528&page=2#Item_43
For me, from the perspective of a potential partner, your determination not to leave or abandon your wife would only be reassuring as it demonstrates character. It shows not only how you feel about your wife, but how you feel about yourself. As I view things at this time, I could not see an involvement with someone whose spouse was at home.
Many posters here have tweaked my mind about a lot of things. I was counseled (not by anyone here; it wasn't an issue for me here) to divorce and I am sure that I did the right thing by not divorcing. I am pretty sure I don't want another husband. My husband and I had no children and I am more than pretty sure I don't want to parent or grandparent anyone.
I think your values would be an asset not a hindrance.
Sorry you have to be here, but you have found an amazing group of people who offer all of us love and support.
Yes, they are out there! I have been fortunate to find one that respects my situation, respects my family space, does not put demands on my time and refuses to have a physical relationship until I am no longer married. Since my wife and I had no common interests or hobbies prior to Alz, I decided that I would look for a companion that shared my interests. I posted a profile that was blunt, honest and clear as to my marriage situation, my DW's condition and what my plans were for her care. There was a large outpouring of support and encouragement from all of the ladies. Some were looking for an immediate relationship and did not want to be encumbered with an uncertain future. One turned out to be the perfect companion whom I will meet for the first time next week. Take your time, be honest and clear about your marital situation, that you intend to fulfill your obligations for her care and that you have limited time to devote to outside interests. What you will find are people who truly understand what you are going through, that want more that a fast and easy relationship and will be there for you when you need them most. Make sure to set boundries and limits but it can be a wonderful and rewarding experience. Life can be good again.
I have found my smile that was MIA for years. I have my fingers crossed, and time will tell but for the first time in a long time I have hope. A friend told me once if you are in a tunnel that is brightly lit it is hard to know when you reach the end of tunnel.
threads have been closed in the past - usually when there is nothing positive or constructive, or there are a lot of problems coming from the discussion. The latest one that was closed had gotten to that point.
This discussion has a positive and construction post to it, very respectful post.
Attorney - my husband is the same age as your wife and very healthy in every other way - He can not take care of himself at all and can only speak in simple words - I totally understand where you are coming from - I do not see an end - Companionship is gone - I do not feel like a wife any longer - just a care taker - It is very difficult - I totally understand
Attorney is still here, appreciating everyone's input. Though I live in a metro area having a population of 1.5 million, there is no active EOAL support group here and I wish there was to help facilitate a more personal discussion (and it would be nice to meet everyone). To those who have focused on extramarital relationships as being a personal issue, I respond (respectfully) by noting that I have already beat myself up for having the mere thought of another relationship, and the issue I have posted is actually different (my issue is whether a woman having traditional values could ever be interested in a man who wouldn't divorce a terminally-ill wife). On days when I beat myself up, I draw an analogy to Senator John Edwards, a man for whom I have no respect (you'll remember him -- he had the one-night stand with a woman when his cancer-ridden wife had 6 months to live). On days when I want to justify my thought, I distinguish my own situation from Edwards because my wife could live in a shell for the next 10 years, or longer. Waiting just 6 months? I've already done that 10 times over (my wife was diagnosed almost 5 years ago). Ultimately, what guides me at this point is the fact that I have daughters, and I am their only male role model. If I can set the right example, then perhaps their lives will be the better for it.
Attorney:I too have daughter's are age 46 & 50 -married with children. A totally open honest discussion about my feelings resulted in what I anticipated .. they understood my feelings. Their concerns were not at all related to my "betrayal" of DW, they almost encouraged me to resume a life beyond caregiving. Their concerns were more about my being taken advantage of, a fairly common occurrence here in Still beating myself up too after 7 yrs of caregiving To answer your question: There is no shortage of women totally understanding of our situations and is some cases working through the same emotional conundrum
Like Marty, I have a 24 y.o. Daughter. When I talked with her about how she would feel about me establishing a relationship with another woman, she told me that she wanted me to be happy and I deserved to be happy. She knows that it is unreasonable to expect me to be alone for the rest of my life. It removed a heavy weight from my shoulders.
I find it very refreshing that you male caregivers (Marty & Cheval) have had the blessing and support of your adult children. The fact that you have had these discussions shows that you are honorable and respectful husbands and fathers. You deserve happiness. I wish you the very best.
Attorney, I do think some women would be willing to have the kind of relationship you mention. Personally I think it would be a good sign that you were open about the fact of your wife's illness and your devotion to her.
Marty & Cheval I agree with lulliebird that the fact that you can have a discussion like this with your children speaks volumes about the kind of men you are.
I would however like to make a point. I'm not sure if others would agree but I am willing to bet that many more adult children of fathers would support a new relationship for their fathers than would adult children of mothers. There is an assumption than women don't have the same "needs" as men, and that it is a woman's duty to stay with her husband no matter what.
The leader of our Alzheimer Society support group mentioned that she sees that all the time with regards to regular supportive behaviour (not starting another relationship). Grown children and family in general are MUCH more willing to offer support to men dealing with an Alz. wife than they are to offer support to a woman dealing with an Alz. husband. I think this attitude carries over into our discussion subject. A good woman wouldn't even consider such a thought. blah!
I have never strayed during our 30+ years of marriage and there were some very challenging times through the years. And while I am not actively looking for someone else now, the door is not closed on the idea in the future. I hope to always be there for my husband...caregiver, companion, protector and that would not change if there were someone else for me.
No one has the right to judge another's behaviour.
Ring-- I guess I'm pretty lucky, as I have children, siblings, and siblings-in-law, who have actively supported me and encouraged me to have a life. You may be right statistically though.
Emily, you are lucky. I doubt that my DD (Daddy's little girl) would be supportive of me entering into a new relationship while here father was still alive.
and ring, I believe that you are correct - if there are statistics on this, I expect that they would show that children of male care givers are more supportive (in all respects) than children of female care givers. This could be because traditionally, mothers are considered to be the nurturers and care givers - that has been their role since the children were babies, whereas the perception is (and I speak about traditional families here) that fathers are incapable of looking after anyone without female assistance. We all know that this is not necessarily the case, there are many fathers who do a wonderful job of raising a family and providing care for their spouse and children without the need of female support.
But when I posted above to say I have no thoughts of entering into a new relationship is because I've decided that when the time comes and my husband has been placed, and I can actively do no more for him, I am going to start considering only my own wants and needs. I'm going to learn to be selfish. After decades of caring for everyone else in my life, and doing for everyone else, its time that I started caring and doing for ME. I've given enough of myself for ten lifetimes. I'm tired, I am sad, and sick of having my heart broken, torn from my chest, and stomped on, on a regular basis. I don't want any more hurt, any more pain. And for me, the only way to prevent this is to live my own life, on my own terms, without another partner.
bonnie - I couldn't agree more. Good for you and your insight. I know when he is placed that I will get on with my life and am even starting it now by taking better care of myself and not putting up with his abusive BS. You want to act like that then here's a pill to calm you down....where as before I would try to verbally calm him down. No more I am using the drugs. I wrote out "what a happy Amber would look like" and as many things that I can put in place now I am doing. Too many years in front of me to just watch them pass by doing nothing.
Ring and bqd -- I agree with both of you. I do think that traditionally the role of caregiver falls by default to the wife/daughter/mother. I know in my own life that after my mother passed away I stepped into her role with my dad in some ways. I accompanied him to doctor's appointments, checked in on him with phone calls and actually spearheaded the task of finding residential placement for my retarded sister, knowing my dad would have a tough time caring for her at home. There have been many times when I wish that someone would jump in and take some of the burdens (especially the financial decisions) off of my shoulders.
Bqd, I also agree about finding ourselves and being selfish for ourselves once our caregiving days are over. I won't rule out the possibility of having a male friend at some point in the future, but I think I just want to be alone and reinvent myself. Gives me something to look forward to -- but I think it's going to be a long time before I can do that. I think the dementia progression in my DH is very slow and this is going to be one long hard haul.
Attorney, to your question: the issue I have posted is actually different (my issue is whether a woman having traditional values could ever be interested in a man who wouldn't divorce a terminally-ill wife).
A few months ago our son told me to stop talking to him about his Dad's illness. His quote was "It's not my burden to carry". I have always felt really close to both our sons and love them both dearly but they are adults now. If I decide to step outside our marriage, I will not be asking either of them for approval or understanding. I will be making this decision with my eyes wide open and they can accept it or not.
Hi Attorney, I feel your pain... my husband just died in June at 60 after battling either Alzheimer's or Lewy Body Dementia for 7 years. We will know soon with the brain autopsy. For the past year he has been in a facility and like you, I was terrified he would last years because he was in excellent health otherwise. However he developed aspiration pneumonia and we did not treat. We were able to get the whole family in and he lasted 6 days before he died; which let them say their goodbyes.
It is a quandary... you are married but in reality you feel either like you are already a widow or you are caring for a child. I loved Barry Peterson's book. I think it really showed the internal battle the well spouse faces. I am 48 and already feel like I gave up 7 great years of my life. I do not think God or anyone would like to see 2 lives destroyed by this disease. It sounds like you have been a loyal husband and father. And I'm sure you will continue to be, but you also need to find happiness and find a life for yourself. I have no regrets over the life my husband and I had - we had a full, happy life before the disease. That does give me comfort - I don't feel I left any "undone" business.
My friends actually encouraged me to find someone several years ago. However, I just haven't found the right person yet who I feel I want to give my time to. I did get a dog and she is help my heart to open back up little by little. However, I am terrified that while she is totally healthy, something will happen to her and I will have to go through yet another grief period. I am not sure how many a person can take. Are we like cats with 9 lives or is our mind/body able to handle infinite amounts of grief... Yep, I am going to be one of those "crazy dog ladies!"
To finally answer your question... yes I think women are open to your situation. Perhaps just find some lady friends to start with and see what develops from there. Anyone with a heart has got to understand our situation is different.. We are not abandoning our spouses, we just deserve to have a life as well.
My thoughts are with you, let us know how it goes...
I discovered this site only this morning, and until today I did not realize how many people my age (65) are losing their spouses to AD. Meeting a woman in a similar situation would be great. Even meeting women here is helpful. I've told my therapist that I while I feel many things for my wife, I feel less like a husband every day. She's willing to be intimate, but she rarely initiates things and I feel as if I'm taking advantage of her. It's just very strange. I'm really worried about making a fool of myself, and possibly hurting my wife, kids, etc. in my heart, though, I'm pretty sure if the opportunity presented itself, I wouldn't say no.
Lulliebird - I think you are right. Still lots of years ahead of us and they say that the new 30 is 50 or something like that. Far too young to be packing it in.
Joisey guy - You may find like a lot of us have that the idea of being intimate with our spouses is a turn off because it would like being with a child, a child that can be mean and lashing out or small and hurting or many other ways. Just not going to happen. It doesn't mean we don't miss it....oh let me count the ways. :) I sure hope you find a balance that you can give good care to your wife but you also have a life. Still haven't found mine.