The total for all of Dado's hospital bills, plus ambulance, for all the whole time from December 20 to Jan. 20, is almost $80,000.00. The VA is refusing payment for anything and I keep getting notices on this. I of course have called all the bill collectors and they tell me that is standard VA, that they will keep submitting. Also, when he was admitted, their was the VA social worker on the phone, who heard him spazzing out, and told me to call an ambulance. I do have her to back me up, and am awaiting a call from her.
I finally managed to talk to a VA person who works with billing in Honolulu. At first he told me well, he is not "service connected" and that is why. After we talked for a bit he realized I knew my rights regarding emergencies, and has told me he will consult with someone and get back to me.
There is Medicaid in the wings, that will hopefully pay for most of his stay in the nursing unit. That is also shaky.
Yes, I know , I can offer them $20 a month for life as I really do not even have that extra. But, I fear for my credit rating that I have kept really high for years. Then, in tears, I say well what the F@!! does it matter anyway??!!
I have been doing so well in "recovery" this past few months, and have felt fairly strong. I will get through it. However , I miss my "wind beneath my wings" right now, I miss him so much, to comfort me and say it will all be allright.
Sometimes I just want to lose it all, give up, stop working and trying so hard, and go back to where I came from, and hole up in the wilderness. (I won't)
So today, I am doing what "they say", face my pain and don't go to the fridge or the beer or the natural marinol, just go in to it and see that well it is just life isn't it.
I get so tired of keeping my chin up, saying and doing all the right things.
“If ever there is tomorrow when we're not together... there is something you must always remember. You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. But the most important thing is, even if we're apart... I'll always be with you.” ― A.A. Milne
Coco, I know how much it hurts, and on top of all the pain, the fear and anxiety that pile of bills causes. I could write a book here about the financial ruin we went through when I was diagnosed. But I think more than needing answers, sometimes we just need to know someone is listening, that someone cares.
We care ♥ and it will be 'alright' Coco. They will work out a settlement and as you pointed out you can pay off your remaining portion in installments. Your attitude is still great and though it is indeed tiring to keep up the fight, I know you have the fortitude to see you through this. ((hugs))
its better to try not to worry over the what ifs. let them send things thru for payment many times and then once they say they have exhausted all resources then you can opt to try for a settlement of sorts, or not. your social director should be able to be the go between maybe if its VA related illness. best of luck. easier said than done not to worry, I know. hugs.:)
I sometimes stop and think about the financial hardships that await me as I continue on my journey to take care of my wife. It is overwhelming to say the least. But I take comfort in the fact that no matter what earthly possessions I lose, it is all worth the cost of taking care of our loved ones. I may not have much when this fight is over, but as long as I have the will, I can start over. I will at the very least take comfort in knowing I did my best. Nikki is right, they will work with you, and we do all care.
60% of personal bankruptcies are due to medical bills, so that is a last resort. Do not worry about your credit either. We have filed bankruptcy twice due to business debt and survived fine. Keep in mind you have the agent orange application in the works. Once that has been approved, I would think things will go more smoothly. At least the guys said it is common for the VA to deny at first, so as long as they are willing, let him keep resubmitting the bills. As for the ambulance - I don't know how it works there, but I know in Vancouver the ambulance service said only about 40% pay all their bills, the rest either none or some.
If need be, pay $20 a month until Dado's journey is over, then you can file bankruptcy.
thanks guys. this has just pushed me over the top. And I just talked to the VA social worker who witnessed all what happened in December. She was rather evasive which was very disappointing. So I guess I will just have to keep calling and trying, and if necessary..get a lawyer?
In the scheme of things, what does it really matter, ones credit, a lifetime of bills, possibly losing our home, whatever. I am no different than anyone else, despite my goodie two shoes of paying all my bills all the time and trying to go by the rules.
Cheval yes I would not trade anything for the honor of taking care of my guy, though times are tough and lonely, it has been the most rewarding thing I have done. Nikki the poem is beautiful. Have you ever read Dr. Suess, "Oh the places you'll go"? Some of the refrain goes...
And when you're alone, there's a very good chance you'll meet things that scare you right out of your pants There are some, down the road between hither and yon that can scare you so much you won't want to go on.
But on you will go though the weather be foul On you will go though your enemies prowl On you will go though the Hakken-Kraks howl Onward up many a frightening creek, though your arms may get sore and your sneakers may leak.
On and on you will hike and I know you'll hike far and face up to your problems whatever they are.
You'll get mixed up of course, as you already know. You'll get mixed up with many strange birds as you go. Be sure when you step Step with care and great tact and remember that Life's a GREAT BALANCING ACT. Just never forget to be dexterous and deft. And never mix up your right foot with your left.
And will you succeed? Yes! You will, indeed! (98 and 3/4 percent guaranteed.
That whole story was my sisters favorite, my sister that passed.
This is the toughest day I have had in months, and I am just letting the tears come and come. It is now almost 5 pm so I will take Charlotte's advice on the drink. Thanks for all your listening.
Coco--fortunately, I haven't had the nightmare of dealing with the VA. However, I do know that under Medicaid, one of our Senators (Barbara Mikulski) pushed through the Spousal Impoverishment Act, which allows the spouse to keep the home and a set amount of assets when the other partner qualifies for Medicaid. So, at a minimum, even if the VA thing doesn't work out you should still have your home and some of your assets. I had the pleasure of meeting Senator Mikulski when I testified before her subcommittee several years ago; she "gets" Alzheimer's because her father had it. It was the reason she went into social work, and then, politics. She knows first-hand what it does to caregivers and families because she saw the havoc it wreaked for her own family, and she's always fighting for us in Congress.
Coco, I don't have any words of wisdom, only able to offer prayers. So I am sending you a boat load of good thoughts, well wishes and major prayers, that this to shall pass and the sun will shine again for you. Many hugs and much love.
Many thoughts and prayers are with you today. May you rest easier knowing that a satisfactory resolution is on the near horizon. Wishing you the best, Lullie
marilynmd I wish I could send a thank you note to Barbara Mikulski, I did not know it was because of her this act was pushed through. Of course this is what I am getting now, just enough to live on. My 'fears" were just anger and disappointment and hopelessness at the ways of life, I know it is not personal but it is just all too much sometimes. IF we get the Agent Orange settlement, I am told that Medicaid will take whatever is left over the top amount I am allowed to keep each month, which is way below....I cannot even cover all the bills,,,but am pulling through.
I hate that it puts me in the "welfare" state of mind, not much incentive to go back to work.
I just need to freak out for a day or two, and then move on. That is why I like that Dr. Suess story so much, as silly as it is it has some profound wisdom.
Coco, I love the Dr. Seuss story. I had read it long ago, but didn't recall all of it. It was nice to read again. It would be a good one to post in the "positive thread" :D
Sometimes we just need to get it off our chests, this board is wonderful for that! ((hugs))
Coco, I too love the Dr. Seuss story. like Blue, I don't have any words of wisdom, only able to offer prayers. Our system is so different here. When I read $80.000.00, I nearly fell off the seat...Coco, I pray it all gets sorted out. Hugs.
Coco, I agree with Nikki, the Dr. Seuss story would be a good one for the "positive thread". I have added it to my list of inspirational readings that I keep on my desktop. {{{{Hugs}}}} to you are all I can offer, and of course my prayers.
It took me a couple of tries to figure out my password here so you can know I am "floundering" in general, if that is even a word.
Thanks not to a glass of wine, or a beer, but let's just say vodka.
Also thanks to you and Nikki for the inspirational words. Early this month was the anniversary of my husband's death, yesterday was the 10 year anniversary of my best friend's death (there went my heart; also Diane). In the interim, my husband's father died last week.
Anyway, I share this **** with you to explain, well, just to explain.
Financial responsibilities and lawyers- please be sure you really owe what they assert you owe. For more than 12 years I almost had a full time job dealing with this stuff. If in doubt, pay the least. So many entities are used to writing off most of their expenses. They are compensated through health networks, etc. No one is going without their pay or salary, it is all factored in to whatever your situation is, Medicaid, insurance, whatever.
What they will write off, are prepared to write off, may just depend on your tenacity (and I know you've got it!)
It is not, IMO, an issue of trying to cheat anyone. Everyone's situation is different of course. In H's situation, he had a deductible, and even more importantly, had a cap on out of pocket and I can't tell you how many providers apparently thought they were not obligated by that.
With many I told them to resubmit to BCBS- cap had been reached, finis.
It never seems to end- for my individual insurance I am paying through checking account deduction. It is about $800 for me alone, medical alone, dental is separate, rx is included in medical. Every month I have to deal with denials, appeals, etc. because they cannot process that all is no longer employee coverage but now retirement coverage. This is despite that the later costs me much more that the former.
Coco, I had planned to take a break from the boards because of my own distress. I know I have been rambling here. It just makes me crazy that the "system" is what it is.
Thank goodness Dado has you, and others here have Marilynn, Charlotte, LFL, Lulliebird, Emily, Mothert, Nikki, divvi,and so many others whose names are not coming to mind because of my shortcomings.
Thank G-d for us because how would our LO's past and present have coped with all this?!
I am sure you don't need any additional advice, but I thought my comments would piggy back on abbys*. Before you begin to pay ANYTHING, make sure you have a copy of the itemized bills from each provider and review the entries carefully. Often hospitals include things (like meds) which were ordered but not given (because dr changed orders, Dado refused to take it, etc). Abby is also correct in saying that medical rates we are charged have built into them costs to cover services which are never paid for by people without insurance or those who have insurance and cannot pay.
My experience as an HR director was that frequently private insurances (BCBS, UnitedHealthCare, etc) will frequently deny payment on the 1st and sometimes 2nd submission because most people don't really know their plan provisions and don't fight the insurers determination. It's a very effective way of saving money and not paying legitimate claims. I don't know if Medicare has the same practice but I doubt they could get away with it for long.
If you decide you want to hire an attorney, it is important to hire one who is familiar with handling medical insurance issues. See if one might be available from legal aide-I am sure you would qualify for that service.
Anyway, I know how difficult this is because we went thru it 5 years ago. I am told that there is a time limit under which they can collect the monies owed and if they don't start collection within that timeframe, they cannot legally collect.
While my experience is in the long past, when I had my appendix removed we had a long fight with our insurance company to pay more. At my follow-up exam I told the admin that this is what we are getting from insurance so we needed to set up a payment schedule to pay the remainder. They said we don't owe anymore, that they were going to write it off. Same happened with my father after getting hit by a car, after losing the lawsuit the medical people wrote off the $10,000 he owed (back in 1981).
Abby I do love you too, and thank you so much for posting despite wanting to take a break. you know, of course, if you need to take a break, just drop us a little hint...ok....so we don't worry.
Such wonderful detailed advice and so very appreciated. And really, it is kind of likely it WILL get paid, like you all said, they submit and submit...he has VA AND Medicaid somebody should be paying!
I am not taking it lying down of course, and yes LFL I will contact Legal Aid, they were very nice and helped us with the Power of Attorney a couple of years ago.
Like I said, this has made me see that of course I am NO DIFFERENT than anyone else in this country, even if I try to be honest and on top of it all. The people behind the billing do not know us and we have to FIGHT AND PUSH or we get run over. My big dismay is almost all emotional, I am just tired of it, of course, and it is depressing.
That darn Dr. Suess prose really has good advice, I usually pray and try to read scripture, but sometimes what is written by us goofy humans is so right on.
still struggling....bills keep coming with denials. I have to put off any more pursuing this until I get back from my upcoming trip.
The lady at the ambulance billing center said they would take $300 a month for me to pay it off. right...and I barely cover our bills. It is kind of hard...to not let it get to me..
How could it not get to you?! I read your comments just a moment ago on the "for those with loved one's in placement".
What a day this has been for you. I wish we could go to that pond with the turtles right now.
It is especially difficult since your trip is coming up. I know you mentioned leaving this Friday. I don't know how long the travel itself will take (I imagine quite some time!) or how long you will be gone but it has to be stress layered over stress to just travel, and then have the distance from Dado, and then have this financial "stuff" to deal with as well.
Even maybe up until five years ago my husband would fly to visit his family. If I had hair on my arms it would stand on end.
I wanted to say something about transport charges but it can keep.
You are wonderful beyond belief Coco and I hope your trip will be wonderful for you- rest, relaxation and rejuvenation.
Abby* you are such a dear. The worry comes and goes, I can be ok for a few weeks, and then the bills come in again, unpaid, denied. When I visited Dado today, of course I looked at him, and wished he could comfort me, and know that I am doing my very best. I am not a lonely type, but I do feel so isolated and alone in this, no one can help.
But then, after a glass of wine, I will tell myself AH it is just life, no big deal, so many have it so much worse. I did manage to let myself "go all the way in" to these financial fears, until it could not hurt worse. It is a weird strategy but usually sets me straight, at least for awhile.
I know dear friend how hard this area has been for you too. Oh BIG BIG HUGS to you and all my friendship, all I can give.
Coco....put everything on the back burner. It won't go away and it will still be there when you return from your trip. You deserve this trip and respite. Just remember...this too shall pass...and it will. You should be hearing from the Agent Orange thing...it is suppose to be fast tracked and you have nothing to prove except that he was in Nam...and now has one of the medical conditions associated with that exposure. Relax, have a glass of wine, get ready for your trip and think about the trip and not things that can upset you....You are such an inspiration to others. Miss chatting with you but as time gets closer for the yearly date of my Jim passing I get so sad...got to get out those big girly panties and stay strong. Have fun on your trip.
Coco...what the heck, it's just one more mountain to climb. You know you can do it, you've climbed all the others - just one more mountain. I know that each time something ugly has happened with Herb (incontinence, hospital stays, catheters, and on and on), I think - "I just can't do this anymore, I've had it, I'm losing it, boo-hoo-hoo - yes, I have a good cry with each new challenge. The last one I said "Lord, this mountain is just too high"; He said, "you've climbed all the others, I'm here to help you". And, He was and I did. Taught me a valuable lesson. There's always another mountain and He's always there to help me over the top. He's there for you, too.
Thank you so much for all your caring it means a lot to me. JudithKB I cannot believe it is getting so close to the anniversary of Jim's passing. I hope you are making some friends and enjoying your new place, you should be proud of yourself for all you have done to keep on keeping on, and for all the help you have given us here! I still look forward to the day we will meet. mothert I know you are having such a tough time too, yet drop in to spread your love. As for that mountain climbing, I need to thank God that I have the gumption, health, and wits to make it to the top. Many don't , and for those, it is my sincere wish that I could find a way to lend a hand.
Love is the biggest word we can come up with, there is nothing stronger that I can say, that I love you guys too.
Yes,Coco,love is the biggest word and also the most important word in the universe,I am so glad we all have this group of such kind,caring peoply, there is no other like it.We love you,too,Coco.
The combined wisdom of the members of this group is phenomenal, too bad we can't package it all up, write a book, produce a dvd series and make every member in need very financially comfortable. And, just think how much satisfaction it would bring to know how much we have helped all the others out there on this journey, too. I tell every new caregiver I meet about this group and how much you have all helped me through the past 3 years since I found you all. Joan, I know you are going through a very bad time now with Sid declining so rapidly and your own health suffering for all your giving; I hope you know how very much you are loved and appreciated by each member of this group and all the others that we have been able to help because of the things we have learned right here. Your gift to all of us is PRICELESS!
Yesterday I talked to a new friend, whose husband is a 100% covered VA. She says even though he is "service connected" they still have to fight to get his bills paid, and actually she made me feel a bit better, and encouraged me to just keep up the phone calls and letters of petition. I gave her a ride to our little post office yesterday, and we were both mailing petitions to the VA in Honolulu! So nice to have a sister in arms, and to feel a bit less alone. She said it could take years, ugh, but just keep plugging away.
The billing company said, well, we can put you on a payment plan of $600 a month, ha ha very funny.
I leave on my trip tomorrow, for two weeks. I will post on the July thread about it, before I go. May not have computer access and will MISS YOU ALL!
Just a reminder to all with outstanding bills, especially medical, once you begin to pay towards the bill (no matter how small the payment) they hold you liable. I was being harassed by a bill collection agency to begin installment payments, no matter how small. I refused saying I needed to speak to my attorney before I could make any financial commitment. Thank god I didn't make any payments...my attorney said once I started payments that I would be obligated to pay the full amount, no matter how long it took. I made no payments and they wrote off the $$$ owed.
Before I left for Canada, I wrote many letters and pleas and calls and all regarding these bills, telling them to contact our VA social worker to back me up that YES it was an emergency when they took Dado, this was the criteria.
Well praise God and pat me on the back and kiss my social worker,, she called me the other day and told me the hospital bill was PAID IF FULL, all $60,000.00 of it. There still may be some issues with ambulance but I think that will come through too. I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOO relieved.
On a lighter silly note...last night when I got home , tired, grumpy as family issues and my Dad once again...dying....and 8 brothers and sisters fighting...and..Mom maybe showing signs of dementia...well there was a message on the phone from United Health care to call them, and I just KNEW it was about getting more money from me.
I tossed and turned all night and when my sister called from Canada with an update was very grumpy with her. Then, I got a hold of the guy at United, and ha ha ha ha he was just trying to give me information on more HELP with prescriptions and dental bills. Lost sleep for nothing.
I am willing to humble myself here and take a wee slap upside the head. (and , I am going to pursue advocacy in a big way, this is too much for the uneducated and people that cannot use computers)
That's great news on the billing, Coco! And yes, we do tend to worry and toss and turn and lose sleep, usually because we don't have all the facts -we assume the worst, are relieved when it isn't, and then wonder why we wasted all the effort worrying!
Is that a Hawaiian expression or is that universal? Slapped upside the head. We use that around here too. Calling someone 'moose breath' is probably local though.
I grew up in NY and "slapped upside the head" is familiar to me as well.
I think I should do it to myself more often....
As LFL said; these worries are not silly.
I wanted to say, about ambulance bills, that what happened for me is that my husband was, since 2000, hospitalized at least every year. I always called an ambulance, not directly, but through 911. There were a couple of reasons for this, one was that a person transported by ambulance was always seen "triaged" first track. Another reason was that if admitted, (which he always was), the ambulance charge was absorbed by medical deduction. It was subject to caps and other factors, but not considered primary billing. I don't know what happened between them and insurance, but it ended up not being a separate bill to me. Insurance was (is) expensive and I really never thought twice about owing them a separate amount.
Actually, I had encountered situations where the ER was operated by an entity separate from the adjoining hospital. Without much surprise they would also initially bill, and my gosh, they were $$$$. But, examination showed, again, that if admitted, that cost was absorbed by the limits of insurance.
It seems like you have things well in hand, and I know others here can contribute more than I can but I just want to share with you what I experienced. This is just in case it will help just a bit....
yet another update. I still had a concern about the ambulances and emergency care. A total of about $9000.00 and the companies were trying to get me to pay as the VA was stalling. (The main hospital bill was paid by Medicaid) About a month ago I wrote a petition to an administrator and told her WHY it was truly an emergency. They contacted our Social Worker and she backed me up.
After a trying day yesterday dealing with long distance issues with fighting family members, (troubles over my Dad slowly dying and wills etc just awful how people get), I drove down to the Post Office.
A letter from the VA, I was so nervous to open it. Here is what it said....
Dear Mrs. F.,
Notice of Reversal-Upon the review of additional medical information, we have authorized payment for your medical/emergent services at Hilo Medical Center on Dec. 20, 2012. If you have made payments to these providers, you will need to seek reimbursement from them. We apologize for any hardship this may have caused you.
Should the provider accept payment from the VA, this is to be considered payment in full; any balance billing to you is prohibited.
etc etc....who to call and all...
Wow. FIGHTING AND CALLING AND FOLLOWING UP!! I urge you all to do the same in any of these situations. Sometimes things almost make sense.
Hang in there gal...and keep up the good work. It pays off in the long run to keep on their backs. So glad the VA paid as they should have done in the beginning. I miss posting and the help I had from so many on here. My adjustment for the first year was not so easy but I seem to be hitting a better phase now and my adjustment to the single life is more comfortable to me and I have quit my crying every day. Life goes on.
Coco and all, it does pay to keep fighting and documenting. I posted a while ago that many insurers will deny coverage of a legitimate expense because most people just accept the insurers word that it is not covered. They save A LOT of money in not paying those legitimate claims.
Judith, glad to see you posting again, I've missed your words of wisdom. And I am also happy to learn you're in a better phase now.
JudithKB* you have been so on my heart this past few days. How absolutely wonderful to hear from you it has made my day. Lots of love coming your way.
LFL yes that is my message. It is good to be patient, but only after you have made your moves. If I had sat back it would not have happened. The worry part is just natural, but of course try to keep it in check. and also Judith, the next day after I got the approvals, I also got a note from the VA about our Agent Orange application for compensation, funny, right after. This I believe also may have happened because I keep bugging them, each month I send a letter to Maryland, asking about our case, is there anything else we need to do....and remind them how he sits sadly in a wheelchair.
The note came from Honolulu this time, which I believe means the case is moving closer, literally. They said, Sorry for the delay, (this is 3 sorrys I have had from VA in all the letters!), and that his case is under review and they will let me know when the decision is made. I am happy about this too because obviously it means all has been submitted and it is just a waiting game now.
If he gets the approval I am hoping for, this will mean he will be "service connected" and qualify also for full pay nursing home in the VA facility. It is far from here, however, as he is declining there will be a time when the place he is now will not be able to handle him. They already have missed catching him in time falling out of bed. In the VA facility, though it it not as personal, he can also get physical therapy.
I try not to think too much of the money factor now, the $420 a month I still have to pay to the Adult Foster home. But it is hard. Any income extra that may come our way will also go to Medicaid to help cover a portion of his costs. This is good, I want to contribute. Yet if he goes to the VA home, as he declines more, I would be a liar to say that it would be nice to be able to keep any extra income.
This is all down the road anyway. I am feeling, relieved, and maybe even hopeful. And I am trying to live each day thanking God for what I have, and to enjoy it as you never know what is to come.
Coco: The important thing is that with Dado getting the Agent Orange payments it means you will get one-half of that after he goes to the better place. Also, remember they will pay you from the date you applied. That will give you a nice reward so to speak which will come in handy.
When I have time I am going to post about the terrible experience I had from not taking care of myself during my grieving experience. I almost died. I am hoping the caregivers will read it and take care of themselves. Hopefully I can do it in the next couple of weeks.
I am so glad to hear that these recent developments are in your, and Dado's favor. Any little bit can help and it also seems like these are BIG things. If it makes you feel easier, than it is a valuable and big thing.
I don't know anything about the VA or Agent Orange. But what happened for me was stressing about SSDI. It was probably third on the list after Medicaid and guardianship. H's neurologist said not to worry because it was clear that H was disabled from not only his work, but from any work. The reason I bring this up is that when it came through, they too paid from the date of disability. I have kind of forgotten about it-almost two years now, but remember the relief it was at the time.
Your strength is inspiring.
JudithKB,
I remember you referencing this, I think it was on Charlotte's thread about adding the date. It is so good to hear that things are better for you now. Along with Coco, I will also anticipate learning from your experience. This is for a self-centered reason: that I am questioning how I am caring for myself. Aside from that I have always appreciated your sharing and your wisdom here.