Marsh, I had the same situation as you and I made no changes - no forms etc. As long as "it ain't broken" don't "fix it". After my husband died I kept the same account open for any future direct deposits to go into. Actually, I still have the same account. I talked to a bank rep. who said they could remove Paul's name from the account and leave mine in place so I wouldn't have to have a new account number. She said they would make a notation on the account to that effect. I then ordered new checks in my name only.
We do have two accounts. Our joint one, that we have always had, is where his pension checks are deposited. The other account is just for his social security check. I use the ss account to pay his medical bills, medication, mortgage, and any of his personal needs like clothing and haircuts. So when I get the accounting form, it's very easy to add up the amounts.
The basic idea of having a representative payee I was told is to prevent fraud by caregivers - you know those family members or friends that use the person's money for everything but the intended person? As said, it seems each office or state seems to have different policies as to who is required as I was told it was not needed.
Phranque--as a former employee of the ss administration, I can tell you that they will not put up with financing your makeup habit!!!! I suggest you switch to drugstore brands immediately--no more of that expensive stuff.
Marilyn, as a former employee, can you tell me if I am supposed to pay for half of everything? We had to make a move to be closer to our children and now we have rent that we didn't have before. The move is because of my husband's illness.
I am wondering the same thing. When I started as ss payee I thought I read that somewhere. I have always claimed just half of our bills but I have look everywhere on the SS site and cannot find it anywhere.
I have not separated our bills in half. I use his check to pay the mortgage, electric bill, his prescriptions, haircuts, and anything else he needs for his personal use. His check does not cover everything else. His pensions go into our joint account and that is used for everything else. I was never told that he could only pay for half. The accounting form just asks for a number for two categories. Even if I divided everything in half, his check wouldn't cover everything for him. I also look at it that even if I didn't live here, the mortgage would need to be paid. He needs a roof over his head. The mortgage is in my husband's name only.
From what I was told by the social security representative, the social security just wants to make sure the rep. payee doesn't use the funds for inappropriate things. You could even buy a car with his funds if it is for his benefit, i.e. doctors visits. Not for fancy vacations, etc.
it would be a good idea. Then if down the road you have to go on Medicaid, they can't touch the house if it is in your name only and it's been that way awhile.. they could touch his half if it's not..
JANE I think I'm right on this but will be happy to stand corrected.
I was awarded back in Oct2011 my approval for disability or S.S.D. They gave me a back checks covering those date to me, my wife and two kids. With the 2 kids I took their checks straight to the bank and put in savings. I was told that money had to be saved since it was back pay for the kids S.S. said. Since then I found out I could have used that money for their needs. We had a “common” checking account so I paid their share of the bills for Nov. then when Dec came I got a check for each of them that reimbursed me. My wife stopped getting checks starting Jan because of her income so we were no longer a “common” checking account. Wanting to keep joint account with wife I set them up a checking account for each check to be deposited in. So I’m always having to front the money when the next month check comes I make a check out to me for their expenses which I keep VERY good records on. Now I worry when the Representative Payee Report comes my expenses show more than they paid me since I’m a month behind. Or do they count the money you have not received for that Last report period month. If dec 31st is the month of the last period I would show expenses of $541.00 but since Jan. is not in there I don’t have income for those expenses in Dec. so I’ll be showing more spent than I got. Anyone know if the wait for you to be paid for that last month reporting period Before sending you the paper work or should I have saved out that back pay to cover Nov. so I would not been behind a month. In the last four months the amount the kids get each month went from $348.00 to $360.00 (cost living increase) to after the wife stop getting money they now get $541.00 which is taken up all but less than $50.00 just in food and housing so we are still paying $250.00 for medical insurance personal items etc a month on each. Anyone have any answers on the Representative Payee Form as to if they include the month income you have not received. Or they don't send them out until that month has been paid. Otherwise I’m going to show more spent then they gave me.
jaymos-- In my experienc e doingthese forms for my DH's payments(end of 1988--now),they send the statement sayinghey have paid $XXXonhis behalf for tghe time span of xx/xx/xxxx to yy/yy/yyyy. They wat toknow youhaven tcom mittedany felonies. whethertheperso'sliving circumstan ces are ethesame orchange, and the whTpotion was spent for foodand shelter, and what for clothing,m medical,entertainment, etc. Also what if any as saved, and in what kind of account. Because DHG's shgareof our expenses always outstrip his c heck, I have %D the first two catefgories and there's been no savings. I'lkl need to do in more dtail starting this year because he is now placed. I have enough documentation to show that I subsidie his expenses. This form is not big deal. jusmt a way, to check that the money is being usd as intended,
Also, don't holdback on using any monies paid for your kids. It is to be used for their care, which can include a computer, learnin g devices,birthday paries, tc.
oh man...I was just having to deal with something like this last week.
I called the SS office locally to get an updated form for dh income amount. (Just regular collecting since he turned 62, not SSDI) As they do not recognize POA< , dh had to get on the phone and give me permission to give the information. Done, I got the form.
She asked me if I wanted the forms to be his representative, I said sure, and I have them. After reading all this I am wondering...
DO I NEED TO DO THIS??? WE GET HIS CHECKS IN OUR JOINT ACCOUNT,...SO now that I have POA do I LEGALLY have to do this???
I tried to find it on this long thread. Anyone know the answer to this.?
Phranque , I will be sending the $50 that was over the requirement for my state medical, promptly to you..lol..
I have not done this either and unless there is some really good reason I don't intend to. My DH has his military retirement pay, his VA disability, SS pay go by direct deposit to a joint account from which we have always paid our household bills, car service bills etc...I have my military pay going to a different account. Both accounts are joint...and at this point, if I am away, and something happens for which he would need to sign a check, he can do that. I normally have all bills ready to go and checks written out..all he would need to do is fill in the amount and sign it. His brother is here when I am not and helps when and where necessary.
I dealt with the representative payee designation for 12 years before my husband died. The form was no big deal. I just zeroed it out every year.....I certainly spent more than the amount he got. The form is not very detailed and no one ever questioned me about it. The SSDI check was direct deposited into our joint account every month and no one ever told me that it could not be done that way.
Coco, NO, NO & again I say NO! A friend of mine told me that I should do that in case he would ever want to handle the finances. BIG mistake. The people here who say that the form you have to fill out is no big deal are correct, BUT it is just one more thing you have hanging over your head that you really don’t need if DH isn’t capable of doing the bills. My DH never handled the finances & during the period when he got mad because he didn’t have any money when I shoved the checkbook his way & asked him if he wanted to handle it he just said NO. I won’t tell you how I figure out what to put on that form, just suffice to say that his SS is just a drop in the bucket helping cover our expenses. (Don’t do it!)
Coco, If you don't have to, don't change to representative payee. The form is super easy to fill out but if you don't need to why do it.
Also, does your husband have a diagnosis? If so, you might want to apply for SSDI since he is younger than 65. With SSDI, he would receive the amount he would have gotten if he had retired at full retirement age. You can apply even though he is getting regular SS right now. Did he retire because of his diagnosis? Would be worth checking into. My husband was 59 when he was approved for SSDI. It changes to regular SS when you reach retirement age.
SS made me become representative payee for my lo. So, she has an account just for the SSDI checks. I only use that account to pay for certain things like any caretakers or daycare, cleaning service, part of the mortgage and the electric bill (heatpump bills). Anything else comes from our joint account which includes any other funds/resources they may have. You could pick whatever is your largest category so you will only have to concentrate on a few payments. When the annual form comes, it is so easy. What I've chosen as her part of the mortgage is consistent for the 12 months, the daycare/cleaning/caregivers is easy to add up and the heating bill is easy to multiply by 12. I consistently pay those same categories each month from the SS account. It's so easy. You always have the electric bill, the caregivers bills/cleaning bills, and morgage documented because the bill comes each month. SS doesn't ask for documentation but if they did, you could pull out the bills from those few areas (which I do file in folders every month). I was also told by my attorney that even though the house was deeded over to me, her name is still on the mortgage so she is responsible for the mortgage and that is a legitimate expense. When I paid the bills for my mother, I was court appointed guardian and that was unbelievable documenting and accounting for everything. But, I also was her SS Rep. Payee and her bills at the group home where she lived far exceeded her SS so I just wrote 100 % for living expenses in her group home. One category. End of form! Easy. Don't stress, just organize it to be as simple as possible.
There seems to be some inconsistency re Rep Payee issues with SSA (understatement). I agree that no spouse should actually seek to be named Rep Payee--it isn't a big deal, but it's another thing to think about that's not necessary. As others have said, the process is just to ensure that monies are being spent on the claimant's behalf; however, it's intended for use more in situations where there is no spouse taking care of them!
Coco, I agree with Deb's recommendation. If there's a dx, your husband should become eligible for SSDI at this point and it will mean a significant increase in his check. Also, retroactive benefits can be awarded for one year, so don't delay--call the SSA 800 number and get an appointment today!
P. S. If he's approved for SSDI, he also can sign up for Medicare 2 years after eligibility, rather than having to wait till 65.
My DW is not allowed to have more than $3,500 in assets. I have one joint checking account for direct deposit of her SSDI and employer disability insurance checks and such income as joint tax refunds. All other accounts are in my name only. This account is used to pay her monthly Memory Care cost each month and is easily documented. When I signed her up for SSDI, the rep suggested me be the Rep Payee. No problems with it. And, by all means, sign your spouse up for Medicare at that time. Eligibility, is two years but it is two years from diagnosis ...and you may also receive SSDI payments dating back to the diagnosis as well. The gov't speeded up the time it takes from their receipt of the application to making a decision on ALZ patients.
I have a question. My DH will be 65 in July. Do you think I should apply for SSDI for him? And why, when I went to fill out the paperwork for Rep Payee, didn’t they let me know about SSDI? (I guess they don’t want to give out anymore $$$ then they have to!) If I apply now it will be before his 65th birthday so even if the paperwork takes longer than his 65th birthday it should still be alright, right? HELP!
Anyone with Alzheimer's or another dementia who is under full retirement age (can be 65 or 66, based on date of birth) should apply for Social Security Disability Benefits. When approved they receive the full retirement amount as if they were 65 or 66.
If your LO applies for Social Security Retirement Benefits under their full retirement age, payments are reduced. Elaine, if your husband is receiving reduced retirement benefits, contact Social Security right away about filing for disability. Even though he will be 65 this year, if disability benefits are approved, they can be awarded retroactively and he would be entitled to a back payment.
If you mentioned that your husband has AD and wasn't able to work, I'd be surprised if the SS rep wouldn't bring up SSDI--perhaps he's already receiving it and you don't realize?
I was told by more than one person, that because he was collecting SS benefits when he turned 62, that as we had already gotten them he would not be able to qualify for SSDI. (because when he applied for the "regular" SS, he took it as "retired")
Right after he applied, he got diagnosed, about a month later. hmmm...
I think I will check on this for sure. IN the meantime, I am not going to change anything. He is also turning 64 this November, so even though he is on Veterans medical, they require him to apply for Medicaid.
Marilyn, I will definitely be at their door on Monday morning (There is a new full service office 10 minutes away). He isn’t getting SSDI. I know because he is getting the exact amount that was calculated on the last statement before he started receiving his benefits & I didn’t start the request for Rep Payee until he received about 4 months worth of payments. Thanks for the information!
Is much of this federally mandated in general but able to be amended by states?
My experience was much more like some posters, and unkike others: H receives SSDI and it was retroactive to when he was deemed incompetent to work but not back as far as initial dx.
I was advised that SSDI is as mentioned above, the same as if the applicant retired at the full retirement time but based on current earnings.
For example, if H continued to work, and he certainly hoped to work until he was at least 65 (his full retirement is at 67, WAS, I should say), his accumulated earning quarters would have been higher and so to would have been his full SS....? As determined, it was based on the quarter earnings as of when he was deemed disabled.
Documents from SSA stated Medicare eligibility is effective two years from date of SSDI eligibility which will be quite a break since H will be okay for that while still 53. For him, the premiums for Medicare supplement are quite a bit less than for what he pays now through his pension.
I know that for me, there is confusion between SSDi and SSI. Also, Medicare and Medicaid. Especially these last two, and most especially Medicaid, I just don't get it.
Abby, This information is from the the Social Security website:
SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY INSURANCE ---
This program is financed with Social Security taxes paid by workers, employers, and self-employed persons. The worker will get Medicare coverage automatically after receiving disability benefits for two years. To be eligible for a Social Security benefit, the worker must earn sufficient credits based on taxable work to be "insured" for Social Security purposes. Disability benefits are payable to: blind or disabled workers their children widow(er)s adults disabled since childhood The amount of the monthly disability benefit is based on the Social Security earnings record of the insured worker.
SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME
This program is financed through general revenues from taxes, meaning benefits are not based on your prior work history.
In most states, beneficiaries will automatically be eligible for Medicaid. SSI benefits are payable to: individuals age 65 or older adults who are disabled or blind children who are disabled or blind Eligibility requirements: have limited income and resourcesmeet the living arrangement requirements a U.S. citizen or national, or in one of certain categories of aliens. The monthly payment varies up to the maximum federal benefit rate, which may be supplemented by the state.
From the medicare.gov website. This explains the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.
While Medicaid and Medicare sound similar, they are in fact very different programs. One of the biggest differences is Medicaid is a state governed program and Medicare is a federal governed program. Here are some other differences: Medicaid is for low income:
Pregnant women Children under the age of 19 People 65 and over People who are blind People who are disabled People who need nursing home care Application for Medicaid is at the State's Medicaid agency.
Medicare is for:
People 65 and over People of any age who have kidney failure or long term kidney disease People who are permanently disabled and cannot work Medicare is applied for at the local Social Security office.
Some people qualify for both Medicaid and Medicare, Medicaid is sometimes used to help pay for Medicare premiums. People who qualify for both programs are called 'dual eligible'. The Medicare publication, "What Is Medicare/Medicaid?", provides additional information.
---------------------------------------- My brother is disabled due to psoriatic arthritis. Due to his low income-he only receives a small SSDI check--he has both Medicare and Medicaid. His Medicare premiums are paid by medicaid also. He had only medicaid while he was waiting for the 2 year period after he started received SSDI. He is only 45 and has been totally disabled for over 10 years.
I think it is Medicaid that causes the greatest confusion. I have been to several sites that talk about how different it can be from state to state, how some states evaluate income v resources, how those ae counted, accountable assets. My care manager even gave me a 20 or so page printout with different examples.
I remember one poster who recently said here that a spend down was necessary before their spouse could be eligible- I believe in a mid western state, while another poster said a million dollar income- in California- was okay.
It is Medicaid that gives me nightmares. I've even been to two elder care lawyers who had different opinions on it.
Now "dual eligible"- neither of them mentioned that.....
You have to have a pretty low income to be dual eligible. My brother is dual eligible. He became disabled quite young, in his thirties. He only receives a small SSDI payment each month (less than $700) and has both medicare and medicaid. He had just medicaid for the 2 year waiting period before becoming eligible for medicare. Medicare is his primary insurance and medicaid is treated like his supplement insurance. We are happy he has both since his medication is covered except for a $3 copay. He takes enbrel and that runs about $1600 a month. Without it, I don't think he would still be able to walk.
Coco - I am so mad that we have to pay the medicare premium even though my husband has VA medical. The VA does not accept Medicare. The money going to the premium we could use. Yes, we could have deferred it until he turned 65 (which will be in Sept) - went on Medicare last summer. They penalize you if you wait and it would have added another $20+ to his premium if we waited the year and a half.
He doesn't need the extra medical coverage - I do. All too often it is us the spousal caregiver that needs it since our spouse has other coverage via pensions, Veterans, etc.
Abby--The Social Security Act is a Federal law and is applied exactly the same in all states.
Yes, if your husband had been able to continue to work until 67, his benefit would have been higher. However, his disability benefit now is as much as he would have received at 67, but based only on what he already paid in.
It's a shame the acronyms for SSDI and SSI as well as Medicare/Medicaid are so poorly named. They create so much confusion.
I am my husband's representative payee. I went to the Social Security Office, showed them the POA and they filled out the paperwork right on the spot. My husband's social security checks now come in my name.
soooo...now, I HAVE had to sign up Representative Payee as we have applied for Disability for him. Does anyone know, that IF he gets approved, and gets back pay, do I have to account for the back pay, or can we just use it.?
It will be ok...but...if some of you have read my latest updates, his regular SS retirement he took at 62 went in to the Adult Foster home last payday, big mix up they told me that would not happen..long story...
SO, now I have applied and will be getting his checks back. Last month, when his income went to the caregiver by mistake, I needed it for bills so she wrote me a check for me to rush up to the bank...around one thousand is his check.
TODAY, she called me in a panic, and said, now SS wants her to pay back that amount. I mean it makes sense, but, she gave ME the money. I am contacting them about it tomorrow, and maybe I will have to pay it back and get paid back???? THIS IS ALL THE CASE WORKERS MESS!! She said the forms I had signed where just for his SSI< that they would not take his retirement that we faithfully get deposited in his account every second Wednesday.
I can find the money to pay it back , but what a bloody hassle.
When this is all settled, I will be making a BIG formal complaint against this person.
Coco, The case worker messed up big time. Sorry you have this extra mess to handle.
The issue concerning the back pay has to do with Medicaid. Can't say. Since everything else has been settled they might not touch it, or they might want you to spend it down. That sounds like a question for and Eldercare lawyer. His case worker at the VA might be able to help. Medicaid rules vary by state and year.
I have a major problem with SS too, but I will not go into it because it is such a mess. Anyway...they will get it all figured out eventually. If you do have to pay it back they will take it out of what you get now and you can insist that it be paid back over a year or more because of your low income. With me they went into my bank account and took my whole SS check and didn't even tell me. SS sucks big time. Just keep records and be sure you get what is coming to you. The gal you are working with now will help you and it will eventually be OK. Usually...they go back to when you applied for certain things. It is just another one of those problems that you don't need...but, this too shall pass.
First I am going to send a fax to the Social security gal that was so nice. Then if I need more help, will consult an Eldercare attorney.
isn't it all nuts? That I may have to lose a months pay, even temporarily, because of all this. I was just coasting along and wham! Ah well, actually I am at least not as stressed about it all like I was last week, as the changes have been made and will NOT BE changed again.
JudithKB*, things are plugging along in the Agent orange thing, I have been notified, a date of submission is there, and we are working on more paperwork.
As for getting "too much money" with either SS or Agent orange, well, gee, I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I have a good Medicaid lady to call too.
I have read through this thread but did not find the answer. Unfortunately I became my husband's RP because on the phone he could not convince the woman he was him even though he answered all the questions correctly except our address - past and present. He has never known addresses, especially our mail forwarding address which is the one they had. I needed to change him to a Washington address thus the need.
Now that I am RP, I will have to fill out the form. Our only income is his SS which supports us both. The booklet states that anything beyond his cost are to be deposited in a savings account. How do you handle the reporting when their SS check supports both of you?
Coco - have you ever gotten it straightened out? Sure hope so.
I don't think this should be a problem. But I've been looking and haven't found a good answer, the materials are written as if the RP is not living with the person receiving SSI.
I don't have the legal input but I think it wouldn't be too hard to find that groceries, gas, maintenance/insurance on his vehicle, entertainment, clothing, personal needs, and anything else he needs would add up to enough to cover the SS amount. if you own then rent, insurances upkeep utilities, etc. also. maybe others know for sure.
My husband ssdi and some pensions are our only income. I am his rep payee and fill the form out every year. There is never anything left. Anything you spend the money on will be of a help to him so don't worry about it. The form is super simple and easy to fill out. I was told by the SS person that they really are only checking to make sure the money is not spent on things that are not a benefit for the disabled person...and I think they worry more about how the money is spent when the rep payee is not a spouse.
Charlotte, I am my husband's rep payee and as Deb says, the form is very easy to fill out. Actually, I have done it online. When my DH qualified for SSDI, he received a large lump sum since the approval was retroactive for seven months and I deposited it into a savings account. I have a savings account and a checking account as the rep payee. I have the monthly check deposited into the savings and then transfer it over to the checking to pay the bills. I use it for our utilities, property taxes, his supplement for Medicare, any medical bills and also for his day care. We also have a private disability policy check he receives monthly, but that will end in 15 months when he turns 65, then it will just be SS for us. I try not to think about that.
Hey Charlotte yes I kind of have that same question, especially now with the VA income on top of the SSecurity income. I have yet to come to a time to fill out the forms. I know I will keep good track, that is not the problem. With all our income being HIS income, where does that leave ME, as a spouse living alone? I know that the money is always supposed to be used for anything regarding HIM. However, things like the room I am renting near him, ($400.00) a month, so that I do not have to drive the 4 hours round trip so much. Does that count, as it is for ME? And what about food at home for me. I know I can pay the bills that are in his name, like mortgage etc, but I wonder about the ones that are just in my name.
Now that I am waiting to be approved by the VA to be his representative, I am going to try to contact someone about these questions. Certainly there is more leniency for spouses, and thank God we can put any extra in a savings account, and if the time comes, we can keep it. If we were a family member or something else, anything would go to the government if they pass.
I will update you Charlotte when I hear more. But good you have all that set up.
Elaine everyone here that comments has other income besides their spouses SS check. I am not worried about the form - guess I can just lump all the spending together. I have things I need too but as others said they probably do not worry about spouses as much as someone else.
I have requested more information from SSA. I will let you know if I hear back from them. But as a spouse her have a legal interest in his benefits so I am sure there are not any problems.
The form only asks about the ssdi income. There are only two categories to fill out. Very, very general. I do it online also and always have no money left over.
Charlotte & Coco - I am in the same situation. My husband has SSDI and I am his Rep Payee. He is 57 and I am 45. We have been married for 22 years. SSDI for is the only income that we have coming in. Our bills are mixed. Some are in his name & some are in mine. How am I suppose to pay for my half of bills when I can't leave him alone to go to work? Closest Adult Day Care is 60 miles away. I have been very stressed over the situation!