This may seem like a strange thing to be a topic, but if it helps one person who might not think about what I am going to say...It will make me feel good. First, let me tell you that money has been on my mind since my dh passed away on Aug. 28, 2012. Just one brief comment about what the money problem has been....SOCIAL SECURITY...When I called Social Security to tell them my dh had died the gal that took the information almost caused me to have a stroke or a heart attack or both. She immediately, told me that my SS account looked like I might owe them between 50 and 150 thousand dollars as a result of them over-paying me for 17 years. I won't go into detail because it is uninteresting and too difficult to understand...It looks like after hours, days of research on the SS site it appears they are wrong. Hope I am right.
Now, this is something if your dh is failing fast or you might want to be prepared for in the distant future, especially if money is a real issue in your household. SS and most of the places you are use to getting your income from take their time in continuing to provide you with a continuation of your funds.
First, check and be sure of the date your SS is posted to your banking account as well as other income you receive. If you have been told by your dr. or hospice dr. that your spouse has less then a couple of weeks to live and could die any day check on your calendar to see when the next posting date passes. If it is close to your next posting date of income you might me interested in attempting to keep your spouse alive until after that date. Most of the places that pay you will keep the income payment for the month in which your spouse passes and/or they can automatically withdraw it from your bank account. EXAMPLE: My dh passed on Aug. 28. Since I am in the middle of this major "thing" with the SS they have told me they are going to hold my widow funds until this matter is resolved. I wish I had done more to keep my dh alive for a few days and gotten a couple of checks I might need now with this totally unexpected SS mess.
I know this sounds so terrible to talk about, but things happen that you never think about or expect to happen. My dh retired from the Fed. Gov...and it takes 6 weeks for them to send you the forms to fill out...who knows how long it takes after that. I don't have the forms yet. I am calling them again tomorrow.
I have worried about this to the point that when my DHs funds are deposited by direct deposit, I NEVER enter the full amount in the check register. By doing this, so far I have banked better than 11K in the past 3 years alone. I do the same with my direct deposit. This month I have tried to live very conservatively and so far I have not entered this month's deposit...and I hope I can manage to get along without it..so far so good.
I have heard that if someone dies before the next pay date, SS will want all that last months payment back. If that is true, it does worry me that the money will be spent already on bills and they will overdraw my account - which the government could care less.
this is great information Judith KB, and here is to solutions for 100% resolution of what you are dealing with. Dado is on SS too, and I need to learn all I can as things are changing so rapidly.
Thanks for this info,JudithKB. I am going to read it more carefully and try to absorb it better. It is something most of us need to know.Hard to keep everything straight, my concentration is not what it used to be,this darn tinitus is getting worse all the time.
This is correct. Found out when my mil passed this year. No ss benefits paid in the month of the death. SS payments are always paid for the month that has just passed.
Somehow this all just doesn't seem right. My DH started collecting SS when he turned 63. His birthday is in July, but he didn't get his check until the 4th Wednesday in September. So they didn't pay him for July, they paid him for August but he didn't collect until September. Doesn't that mean that we are being paid a month behind? BTW, when he turned 65 they started deducting his Medicare premium in his July deposit........shouldn't they have waited until September? He didn't get his first benefit until September! They sure don’t want to give you anything, but they want what they think is theirs. Ridiculous!
It is my understanding that SS pays 1 month behind like Elaine said. That's why I can not understand that they take the last check before death back.
Judith, good topic and one we all need to be prepared for. All companies/institutions require paperwork regarding the death of the beneficiary (SS, Pensions, IRAs, 401ks) which takes time ti process and will most likely result in delayed payments.
A related topic, there's a good article in the October issue of the AARP Bulletion, page 28 which discusses what to do with a spouses IRA, 401k when they die. It has good advice for a young spouse who is under the age of 59.5 on how to avoid withdrawal penalties should you need to use the money before you turn 59.5. Of ourse always consult a financial advisor.
This is a very real topic we all need to pay attention. I would also determine who is on your IRA as your beneficary. If your DH can't make financial decisions, it shouldn't be him. The AARP site is good source of information. Money is a worry. With my DH 15 years older and taking SS, I am planning on waiting until I am 70 and start the spousal SS at 66. I realize I am going to be going it alone for most of the last third of my life. Since I am laid off, and getting unemployment - I have a 6 month window before I can start my annunity. It's not just the monthly costs, my biggest worry is the long term costs I will face toward the end. I was relieved to find out that if and when DH would need a nursing home, he can go to the Veteran's home...if you can figure this out a year in advance to apply. Oh dear.
Just a quick comment on IRAs which I've mentioned in a thread a while ago. It is critical that you fill out the financial institution's power of attorney forms because they will not accept a durable power of attorney. I changed the beneficiary on my IRA-it is not longer DH because of potential Medicaid issues and because he can no longer make financial decisions. I completed the poa form for DH's IRA, explained to him what it was and he signed it since he is the owner. I am glad I was able to get it signed because we've needed some of the funds to pay for his care.
Claude got his SS check on the 3rd of each month. He passed away on February 26. SS took his March 3 check back, but not the February 3 check.
He was also a retired federal employee. The government took back the March 1 check. It took about three weeks from the time I filed for my widow's pension to get my first check. My first check included my widow's payment for February plus his entire March 1 check as in reality it was for February.
I questioned the amount of my monthly check as I felt it wasn't correct. I got no answer from the government, so wrote to my congressman. Within two weeks I had an answer and a check for the extra they owed me. Claude had WW2 military service, Korea service and peacetime service, as well as government service. They had miscalculated the military time.
My social security was more than his so I draw my own benefit and not a wife's benefit.
My husband was the beneficiary of my life insurance policy-that made him the owner. When he died the insurance company would not permit me to change the beneficiary to my kids without a court order. POA is null upon death. When I die my policy goes into the estate and then the kids can get it. Sometimes it's the stupid things that drive you crazy.
bluedaze*, I thought as long as YOU are alive, you're the owner of the policy, not the beneficiary. It doesn't make sense to me-you can change the beneficiary anytime you choose, but you can't change it if the beneficiary dies?
Either can be the "owner" of the policy. DH has a policy, he WAS the owner, I was the beneficiary. As owner, he would have to cash it in if he goes on Medicaid. so...He signed the document to change the OWNER to me. So, now I am the owner of the policy, as well as the beneficiary. Therefore, it is NOT an asset to him.
LFL I am not the owner of the policy. On my husband's death it went into our estate. It's too small for me to bother with and it will go to our kids on my demise.
From my personal perspective (what other kind exists), this is an excellent topic.
Judith KB and I have exhanged posts about this during the past few months. Not individually but on this forum.
In my case, H received ssd and I learned that this is much different from ssi. For me, upon his death, ssd payments ceased. I was told that he had to live through "the entire month" to be paid for it. I did receive a small amount $350 ? once his death was established by certificate. But I cannot and will not receive any spousal benefit for ssd until I am at least 60 and that will be significantly reduced unless I wait until 62. Better yet that I wait until 65 or until any age up to 70. Which I hardly think is going to happen.
As I have experienced it, Charlotte, andy and LFL's comments are spot on, at least as I have experienced.
If any of you experience problems with SS benefits you believe you are entitled to I strongly suggest you go to the SS Home page and search for their manual which contains the rules they use in making their decisions.
Both the SS agent in Kansas City Mo. as well as the agent I now have in Chicago DID NOT AND DO NOT know their own laws/regulations. I would not owe them back payments if I my retirement from a city (where I worked and retired from in 1979 and did not work under SS) was on or after January 1979. I REITRED IN NOV. 1979....how difficult is that to understand?? And, I have provided them proof from my retirement system.
Abby: I have done so much research I may even know more about the rules then the agents do. I think you might be able to collect widow spouse benefits at age 50....I will try and find the information I am referring to later today and will post it here if I find anything.
Just checked the requirements and it looks like SS is correct unless you have young children then you can begin collection at 50 years of age.
Another "fun" aspect of gaining our * is - - - - filing tax returns as single. My tax guy says I should prepare myself for "Paying my kids fair share" (they're low income and don't pay much). I'm lower income, but.....Maybe I'll adopt some kids or find a wealthy widower. Doesn't have to be too wealthy, just "enough."
All this is disheartening...first we lose our LO to this miserable disease. Then when they pass on, we get less income from any retirement pension they earned and we have to fight for anything due us..it is just wrong. Talk about losing everything....and if we have anything left, some of us are just too beat up from years of this caregiving we don't know where to start.
You can also collect at 50 if you are a disabled spouse (and now they added, for at least 7 years prior to death) Still works for me as I have been disabled since 99.
I think it ridiculous to put any age limitations on survivor benefits. There are many diseases that strike down even the young. How are they to survive until they are 60 or even 50? Knowing I wont make it on my measly SSD paycheck. Hello! Lynn is on Medicaid for a reason, we have NO savings. Ludicrous.
This is kinda sorta related. If your spouse doesn not earn a wage for 10 years, they lose the right to collect SSD. This happened with DH. in 1999, when his company shut down, we decided he would become the "homemaker" as I had a good job with good insurance. He was already showing signs of problems then. When he received his yearly newsletter from SS in 2009, it did not list the amount that he would receive if he filed for SSD. I checked the rules on line and it said that if you do not receive a wage for 10 years, you are no longer eligible. I hope this makes sense. In DH's case, he had earned wages for about 30 years before he stayed home.
Mary, good point. Because of DH's FTD (although we didn't know it at the time) he was unable to hold a job for more than 6 months and was in/out of work for almost 10 years. Thank god he had some employment during those years because we definitely need his ssd.
SS has really gone viral. When I didn't receive a call I was told I would receive on Wed. I callled them on Thursday. Never, never have I had a person talk so hateful to me and tell me he didn't have time to talk with me. I was shocked. He went on to say..."we had a meeting" whoever "we" is and we are moving forward with this matter. I was almost ill when reality set in that these people don't want to help me...they want to find a way to ignore me and do their own thing.
I just don't know what to do now. It would be a waste of time to call them again. I am thinking I should go to my local SS office and/or I should write my Congressman and Senator. Some of these Gov. people forget they are working for us and we are paying their salaries.
Oh, Judith- I hear you. As callers, we never know who we're going to get. When I went to SSA for my interview after H's death the representative could not have been nicer. Before her, the person I spoke with estimated what I would get at 60 and 62. He was wrong (in the direction of being too generous), but he too was nice.
Then last week or the week before when doing taxes for the extension deadline I discovered that SSA had not sent some end of the year form. I was calling to ask him to send me one because it had never been received.
Well ****, NO . In a very clipped tone he explained that the reason was because I have moved. "Haven't changed addresses?" Like I would not know if I had or had not. Failing that he said I must come into the office to request that form. "That is policy." He acted like he was talking to a 2 year old, and his voice kept getting more and more "precise" for lack of a better word and he sighed a lot.
Likewise, I've had to talk to IRS during the past couple of weeks as well. Same deal really, one person so nice and the other acted like I was receiving some huge favor because they're actually speaking to me.
Thank you, Judith, and Nikki for looking into that age thing.
Zibby*, I can't wait until another filing comes along! I can't imagine what the IRS does when the death takes place just about in the middle of the year.
I must have been very lucky as when I called to tell them of dh's death the social security lady was very nice. He died Oct. 2 but I didn't report it for about a week as I was out of town for his burial and lots of things going on so I just forgot. Anyway she expressed her sympathy and told me the payment deposited Oct. 3 was for Sept. so I didn't need to refund any. Then she told me what the amount would be going forward and even told me to call her again if I had any questions.
No wonder our government is in debt up to their eye brows. Sat. I got a check in the mail from the VA made out to me and a letter stating this was my payment for my dh's VA pension. I also got another letter from a different part of the country from the VA at the same time telling me that they would be processing my benefits claim from the VA very soon and would be contacting me.
I know the check they sent me is anothr mistake by a gov. agency. Geezzz...but I am going to put it in the bank and wait until they find their error and then I will write my own personal check to them so I have proof I returned the amount of money of this check I just received.
Latest on SS mess...they told me abut a MAJOR mistake another agent made years ago and it had just compounded the amount I have been receiving for years. Also...this agent from long ago who took my applicantion checked the little box on the application asking if I had worked for a public agency where I didn't pay SS. I had answered yes and she checked it....after that.....someone removed the check mark in the little box. And this changes everything.....they now have reduced the number of years they will be looking at with regard to my SS to 4 years instead of going back to 1995 and forward to 2012. Between 2000 and 2005 was when this terrible mistake was made. We shall see what will happen.
I thought the time was not working in the last 5 years. Anyway, that is why I searched for a workamper job where I am paid wages too. For a while I will at least be putting money into SS and Medicare.
Charlotte...there are so many of these SS laws that many of us never heard of. I retired back in 79 when I took disability retirement and I never paid into SS. Good for you paying into SS because it will be of help to you later.
Claude was a retired federal employee. He went back to work in a social security job long enough to get the necessary quarters so he could get a SS check. It wasn't much but it helped.
I worked under SS all my life so my benefit was more than his and I wasn't able to draw anything on his as a surviving spouse.
Something new every day. What did I do to deserve this? Called the Fed. Gov. to ask where the forms were that they told me on Sept. 5th that they would send to me, but it might take six weeks. Six weeks are up and no forms...I call them today and they haven't mailed them yet. Why....because my dh's son called the day before I did and they sent them to him. He isn't getting anything and they knew that. Our federal agencies SS and Fed. Gov and VA have all screwed up. I'm sick of it...so depressed about this crap I want to cry, spit or something.
For what it's worth, My husband died in Houston. The funeral homes notified Social Security of his death. I received a letter from them within a week. I was told that all the funeral homes did that. Apparently that is not necessarily so.....
Thank you bluedaze for your comment and all the others who have made comments. I will make it through this....I am still considering different avenues and approaches. My son-in-law said ..."Mom if you get in one of those appeal hearings...just cry"....I said, not to worry that will happen without even trying
Knowing I was just going to be cut off, I was in no real hurry to get in touch with SSA. I never received anything from them in the mail but when I called them the first time, they already knew of H's death. They knew the date, the time, his SS#; everything.
I had to go in for an interview. We had direct deposit for his SSD and they had cancelled the one for the month of his death, but also the month before. They later put back the one for the previous month. As NancyB* said above, I can't imagine who would have known all the data and done this so quickly other than the funeral home. My only other guess is hospice because the hospice nurse was the one who pronounced the time of death.
Take care Judith. There should be some kind of time interval, grace period, before all of this starts but sadly there isn't.
SSA has a form which is distributed to funeral homes and they routinely complete it when there is a death and forward it to the Agency. (At least this is what was done way back in the day when I worked there, I'm sure it's still the case.) So sorry to hear of troubles members have had with SSA--as with any large organization, there are good employees and not so good; it's just a shame because SSA serves a very vulnerable group of clients.
To add another problem, a 90 year old friend's wife died in August. I talked with him in February and he said he had not received HIS social security check for 6 months. Seems his wife was collecting SS on his number, since she had not worked. When her death was reported, SS thought that meant the number was no longer valid. It took a call to our congressman to get that straightened out. I am very aware of this since my wife is also collecting SS on my number.