This is going to be long & I apologize before hand. 2 weeks ago my DH became violent & grabbed me & started shaking me. He had been agitated for a few days & then he got physical. I called the police & by the time they came he had calmed down, but was still agitated. They took him to the ER at the hospital. The door examined him & took a urine specimen. No UTI or anything else. They assigned me a case worker who spoke to me about possible placement. I told her that I was in the process of filling out forms for the local Veterans Home to put him in respite for a few days because that is where I plan on placing him if/when the time comes. They called my my PCP who told them to tell me to up his meds (Seroquel). They asked me if I felt safe to take him home & I said that I did. So home we went. I made an appointment at the Veterans Home to talk to the director of Admissions & submit all the preliminary paperwork. The day before my appointment I took DH to our PCP for a follow up appointment & he had a major meltdown in the waiting room. The nurse took him back & calmed him down & when I went back our doctor told me that he would fill out his portion of the paperwork for the VA Home & that I should fill out mine ASAP. The next day I had the appointment with the Home & submitted the paperwork. The very next day he became violent again & I called the police again. This time he didn't calm down & it took 3 officers to subdue him. The first officer to arrive tried to talk to him, but he ended up trying to cuff him & they both went down. 2 other officers arrived & they finally got him cuffed. They called for an ambulance to take him to the hospital. I called a friend to meet me there. When they called us back to where they had him he was in wrist & leg restraints. 2 security guards were in the room. The nurses were trying to take blood & get a urine sample. I was not upset with anything they were doing. He was just so out of it they were just doing what they had to. The nurse told me that the results of the blood work would take about an hour & I told him that I didn't want to stay back there with him because he was so agitated & I knew that if he even recognized me that he would think I was going to help him. They were going to sedate him anyway. So we went out & waited. Meanwhile I was contacted by the same hospital case worker that spoke to me the week before. She came & talked to me & basically told me that he wasn't going to be admitted because he didn't fit the criteria of someone who needs to be admitted. WHAT? I asked her if they had a psych ward he could be admitted to so they could get his meds adjusted. Well they did but it wasn't equipped for AD patients. Well who then? Well drug addicts & people with schizophrenia. Oh really! Well I told her that I was not comfortable taking him home. She went & got her supervisor who basically told me the same thing. So I said to her, “You mean to tell me that even though he was violent, took 3 cops down, had to have restraints on his wrists & ankles, I have to take him home?” YEP. Then I asked her what would happen if I refused to sigh the release form & just left without him? She told me that they would transport him to his home address by either squad car or transport ambulance. So I told her that that was exactly what I was going to do. She told me that since I was technically abandoning him she would have to report me to adult protective services. I told her that I understood & that we both had to do what we thought best. So I left. I know it sounds cruel & bad, but I knew that they would either keep him or bring him home. Sure enough about 3 hours after I got home I got a call from the hospital saying that he was being transported home by an ambulance. Half hour later he was home. He was awake, but very medicated. This happened on Wednesday. So yesterday I was on the phone with the Veterans Home making arrangements to place him. They are bending over backwards trying to help me. The one thing he needs is a chest x-ray & I could kick myself for not having them do that when he was at the hospital (cuz I don't think he is going to have hat done willingly). Like some other people here who have placed there LO's, for the past month I have been told by numerous people that I should really look into placing him, but I didn't think it was time. I'm still second guessing myself, but it's selfish on my part. BUT, the thing that really infuriates me is that I had to bring him home from the hospital. There was NO PLACE for him to go except home. They knew he was violent, but yet they sent him home. SO after he is placed my mission is going to be to let people in this area know about this. It is so unacceptable.
Elaine, so sorry you are having all this problem. Take care of yourself and good luck. I have no experience with this type of behavior but agree that it is unacceptable.
Elaine- two years ago,when Paul got so bad we had nearly the same experence-he got really mean and upset at home but I managed to get him to the hospital--they kept him because I knew if you tell them he was threatening to hurt himself that they had to keep him. After 4 weeks in one hospital and 4 weeks in another hospital they finally got meds adj. but we went through the arm and leg restraints many times in those 8 weeks. Sometimes it takes a while to fine the right mix or in our case the more drugs they took away the better he became. It has been 2 years now with no violent behavior. I know this is a tough on you but you have to take care of yourself.Do not give up on Tom either,it may just take a while for them to fine the correct meds.The people at THAT hospital were soooooooooo wrong!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE becarful while you are waiting for this placement to take place.Know that we love you and wish I were close to help you.
What a horrible experience. I wouldn't know what to do in such a situation either. I know there are others here who have experienced this, and I am hoping they will be along soon to give suggestions and other options.
I was taken aback when I got to the part about how they said he had to be sent home. No, that does not seem correct. Does someone here know what SHOULD have happened? Elaine, I have seen that aggressive behavior, and it is frightening and deeply upsetting. A new set of meds is very obviously in order, and I am sending fervent wishes that you get the help you need from the VA ASAP.
This is very traumatic for me to write but I am still doing it. My husband had FTD (remember when that was flower delivery)? He was Baker Acted several times because of violent behaviour. I let my heart rule my brain and took him home. Same night he really frightened me and I called 911. He intercepted my call and told them there was no problem. I called again and they said they were on the way. Husband was outside waiting for them and again said all was well. Cops came to my door and asked me what was going on. I explained he had been discharged from a psych unit that day and that they would not take him back without a court order. Cop looks me up and down and asks my age??? I weighed about 102 lbs at that time and the cop said I looked like I could take of myself and left. I spent the night with a friend and husband never realized I was gone. Several days later a neighbor saw him hitchhiking on the main road. He was walking to Iran. Neighbor called 911. When the police finally came to my house it took four cops to restrain him and take him back to a psych unit. Permanent placement could not be found because of his young age and exit seeking behavior. I made it very plain up front to the social worker that I would not take him home. He stayed in the unit for 4 months until he could be placed. I had to hire a private aide to stay with him in the double locked dementia only facility. He managed to get out several times in spite of a wander guard and security system. Upshot-he was illegally chemically restrained at my insistence-with much paper signing. He remained in the facility until his death four horrible years later.
Just wondering where was your pcp. Why didn't he/she step in? Our pcp has told me that he would admit dh to a phsyc hospital if he got violent. In the past he has grabbed me by the shoulders and shook me but I was able to talk him down. It is very scary. Sorry for this terrible experience. I am always amazed at the rules that really don't make common sense. Even tho my dh has hospice care now if he isn't properly medicated he can be very strong and the CNA who is taking care of him at night told me to be careful and keep his meds at the proper time. He grabbed her arm the other night and left finger prints. He tries to get out of the bed and of course he isn't strong enough to stand. I told the hospice nurse and she told me the right amount to give him through the day to keep him calm. Just so sad in both cases. What a horrible disease.
In British Columbia, Canada, it is illegal to discharge a patient under these circumstances. In Sept. of 2008, I was in a similar situation as was my lawyer, whose mother had Alzheimer's. She read the law to them, I did the same, and they kept her mother and my husband in the hospital until we found care facilities for them.
We must all keep in mind that every state has different laws regarding this situation; as well as hospitals have their own policies and facilities. Some have no facility to handle this - and we should all check our own local areas to find out what the laws/procedures are.
I don't know where you are Elaine, but my DH went berserk at his care facility, throwing furniture, biting people, twisting arms, etc. The police were called and took him away in handcuffs. He was taken to a lock-down mental facility--it was all out of my hands. They had the legal right to hold him. I can't imagine anyone in authority letting someone like that out in the general public. I was lucky that he was taken to the right place, but I understand how hard it is for you and for him. It was a terrible emotional experience. I am glad you are following thru. These things cannot be allowed to stand. Just more of the same, even medical professionals do not understand how to deal with dementia. I also think most of us underestimate how advanced our loved one really is. Sad, but understandable.
ElaineH I hope we hear back from you that you are ok!! This is a nightmare, and that is insane that they did not keep him. Please let us know you are ok when you get a chance, and I am sending up a huge prayer for the VA to be ready for him faster than ever.
What an eye opener. Reading this has changed my thoughts on what we understand, and the limits we have.
Hi Elaine..what a frightening experience. Glad you are going to do something about it to make sure it does not happen to you or anyone else. Some of the thoughts I will share with you are of course contingent upon the rules in your state. I would guide you to talk to the hospital first..check to see if they have a patient advocacy department or talk directly with the president. The first question is does the hospital have a psyche unit and what are the admission criteria? Is it a locked unit? If this hospital could not care for AD patients in crisis where do there refer these patients for care? I am particularly upset about the remark made to you when you were not comfortable taking your husband home. Also concerned about them sending him home against your wishes. Nice words to use when confronted with this are....if anything happens to my husband or I because of your decision to send him home the next person you will talk to is my lawyer. If you do not get your questions answered and have a plan should this happen again I would contact the Department of Elderly Affairs (Health Department) and register your concerns. Of course the real ugly underlying question is what kind of hospital insurance do you have. It pains me to tell you but many psyche units tend to triage by insurer. If this is of concern to you RUN to your Department of Elderly Affairs. Hope this helps.
Oh thank you my friends from the bottom of my heart! Well I am alright for now. He was really mellow yesterday & I'm sure it was part exhaustion & part the meds that might have still been in him & the usual ones I give him. BUT today he is a bit more “awake” & I can tell he is agitated. He is still mostly sleeping, but he wakes up he asks, “What's the problem? Am I doing something wrong?” Don't worry, I won't hesitate to call the police again if he gets physical. The police are going to get tired of coming here & then maybe they will make the hospital keep him. I know that the police won't keep him because they don't have the facilities. The case manager supervisor did give me a list of facilities over an hour away that probably could accommodate him, but no offer to coordinate a transfer. I did call my PCP. It was his day off, but I spoke to his partner who was actually the one who told me to walk out! To be truthful I also thought that it was illegal for them to release him, but like Vickie said, it's different in different states. We live about an hour away from Washington DC. There are 2 other counties around here with a hospital in each county & I asked the case worker if either of the other hospitals admitted AD patients to their psyche ward & she said NO. This is so friggin' unbelievable! I forgot to ask the hospital do a chest x-ray because he needs one before he could be admitted to the VA Home. Well I talked to my PCP today & PRAISE THE LORD the ER report stated that his chest X ray was normal, so they did one. So now I am waiting for the home to call & find out wheat the next step is. We have 4 children & I spoke to one of my daughters today & I told her that yesterday he was so calm that I thought that maybe I could manage him. Then I asked her if she & her siblings would restrain me long enough to get him placed, because they are all in agreement that it is time & really, so am I. I know it's Friday, but if I don't hear from the Home soon I will call again. I will keep you posted on getting him placed. Again thanks to all who responded. BTW after my friend & I came home, before he arrived back here she remembered that we should have called the patient advocate. I will use that & the lawyer word if he has to go back to the hospital before I get him placed.
Lloyd gets aggressive every once in a while...more so lately. I never back down. I tell him if he wants to be mean, then we both will be mean. If he shoves, I shove back with one hand and am ready to catch him with the other. If possible, I just let him roam the house and stay out of his space until he calms down. It is usually effective. And then there are times that a simple hug will just fix everything. I take care of him, but I do not take any crap. You just gotta do whatever works and it is different for different people.
Linda Mc, I remember when you first said that you don't back down. So a few months ago after Tom put his fists up & I did the same & he backed down. That happened a few more times & each time he would put his fists down & say, “I'm not going to hurt you.” Well that all changed about 2 months ago. When I put my fists up he came after me. He didn't hurt me, but it surprised me. I knew then that it was over & it would happen again. These past few weeks it has escalated & now there is no turning back.
Elaine I was shocked to read about what happened to you. Rules might be different in every state but assault and battery are a crime everywhere. Since the police were involved they are witnesses and your dh should have been taken somewhere. I know with dementia being part of it, it adds another layer but it is still unacceptable. Victimization of women seems to be an ok crime ... I guess. Still being a threat to self and/or others is usu. the benchmark... and they ignored it.
Some of this stuff is amazing. In my state, once you call 911 there is no way to uncall it, the police will come no matter what, if there is a hangup they will call to check the situation. If it is spousal abuse there are 2 choices, hospital or jail. Jail can be its own problems since there is an automatic restraining order separating the "offender" from the family for 3 days, and what if your SO is unable to live on their own for 3 days?
Elaine--I am going to email you about the geripsych units that I know about in the Baltimore area (there are several). When Steve was at Hopkins' Bayview unit last year, there were multiple patients that were other parts of Maryland and from out of state. If you want, I can contact his former neuro there, who runs the unit, and find out how to get your husband admitted (in case there's a delay in placing him). To send him home after the behaviors he demonstrated, without any help in transferring him to a geripsych unit, is unacceptable, in my opinion.
Emily--how was it that Jeff got transferred to Bayview? Was the local hospital where he was first seen a part of the Hopkins system?
ElaineH...that is so scary...I don't understand how they can send him home when he's like that.. A few months agao , I had to call the ambulance, because Dh was so aggressive, he punched the fridge /freezer till there were dents in the doors then started on the glass sliding doors...the paramedics could not get DH to go with them, they called the cops, the cops were ready to cuff him, paramedics with needle in hand ready to sedate him...till i finally talked him into going peacfully...he had a UTI. From then on the ball started rolling to get him in placement...from there they found a place for him miles away, too far for me to travel to see him, so i hung out till one came up here closer to home...but I rang ,and called into the NH till I'm sure they were thinking when they saw me comeing..."not her again" There's a saying that goes.." the wheel that squeaks the most gets the grease"...it worked, he is in place, sadly he is declining much faster. I second guessed myself too if i had done the right thing...but it is what it is.
ElaineH, this is just the worst thing I've heard of with an AD patient. Well, bluedaze and some of the others also had nightmarish experiences. I don't think I could care for my DH if he was mean and violent. My heart really goes out to all of you.
Well the wheels are in motion & the last paperwork from our doctor was faxed to the Veterans Home. It was the information that will determine what level of care he needs & that will hopefully be decided on Monday. So I am thinking that placement will take place sometime next week. I don't know how to go about it & when I suggested that our sons might take him the admission director said it might be a good idea. I just don't think that he would be happy if I was there. She also suggested that I don't come to visit him for a few days. I'll let you know how it all plays out.
Julia, I thought about you as I was going through all this because I remember that you had to place your DH because of aggression.
Marilyn, I e-mailed you back. Thanks for the information.
Oh Gosh Elaine..I'm reading your post and praying it all goes well for you. Yes it was for agression, he never hit me, came close though, scared me...just the walls, glass doors,furniture. Amazingly it went quite smoothly for us, We set up his room with a few of his personal things..like recliner, photos TV etc, and told him he was there for a while to get treatment for his short term memory loss, ( cannot say Alz/ Dementia to him). Our DD and I took him in...she was amazing, i kept quiet for fear of breaking down,,, she just took over, and he let her lead him to his room, hugged and kissed, said we'd see him later, and we left, went home and I fell apart! It's been 10 weeks now..seems like 10 years, second guessed myself over and over, but in that 10 weeks, he seems to be quite settled, I think I took longer to comes to terms with it....and still strugglling with it at times. He has declined a lot more, faster now, I really think it the meds...perhaps just the way the AD is progressing. He's wearing pads now, dribbles a lot, slures his speech. I didn't visit him for the first few days and found it very hard getting away from him when i did visit....he kept wanting to come home He's a lot more docile now, sleepy,must be all the meds.. Ok, now your going to think I'm crazy, summer coming, weather warming up...I would really love to bring him home on a Sunday, just for the day, have a B-B-Q with family...even thought about doing it tomorrow...I know crazy. My worry is, will he go back without a fight.
For your safety, I think your doing the right thing...( hugs )
Julia, I know that feeling well, but I thought it would make it harder for him to go back. I would take him out of the facility and down to the beach or to a park, and he enjoyed that, even if he just wanted to sit in the car. It was a change of scenery for him and peaceful. We'd share a thermos of tea and sit and look at the mountains and the ships off-shore.
Marilyn--it is thanks to you that I was able to suggest Hopkins-Bayview as a suitable choice. The docs at BW Med Ctr had no clue and thought sending him back to Sunrise was appropriate. Sunrise, of course, did not think so. I suggested Hopkins, Sunrise agreed, and I called and made the arrangements.
mary75*...I might just see how he is tomorrow. Depends what mood DH is, I might try a couple of hours at home, DS is just 10 minutes away , he could be here to help me. Bedtime here...stay safe all.
When I placed DH I thought there was something in him that he knew it had to be done, altho I could see he was crushed. My children were helpful, made his room look like home, but I was so distraught the staff yelled after me to calm down as I ran to the car. I sat there sobbing for a long long time before I felt safe enough to drive. But we did take him out from time to time, for a sundae, a drive along the coast. One time I brought him to our house and he did not recognize it at all. When I'd bring him back to the facility, he'd get out and go inside just as if it was his home. I think most of them adjust better than we do, and yes, he'd ask to come home, but that stopped, and yes, I'd 2nd guess. Mostly I want to say that I was like most, waited too long for my own well-being to place him, and then got over the anguish as he adjusted, and then realized it was best for everyone. My heart goes out to those of you in this position and can only say, with some assurance, that you will go thru hell & back, but you will be OK sooner than you expect and so will your LO. Bless us all.
Ok, I'm going to bring DH home today for a coupls of hours, Son will be here to help if I need it. Can you believe it, but I'm acually excited and nervous at the same time. I've been going around the house hiding keys, put some things back as he had them. I wonder if he'll notice a few changes that I made...like new table and chairs. Yes, I did exactly what they say not to do under duress and stress.."don't make any big changes or decsions,"
Yes it's been hell, trying to come to terms with placement...and I'm most likely asking for trouble bringing him home, being even for just for a few hours, but it's something I need to try.
Elaine H, my heart goes out to you. It's scary enough to be getting cuffed around by a man who is out of control and then for the "authorities" to tell you that "too bad, we can't keep him, he might come home and kill you, but we're not keeping him here". I simply find that impossible to believe. I have heard others on this site say the same thing that bak above said about telling them that your lo had threatened to hurt himself. Guess it's ok to hurt you, but not him. Well, ok, at least we know by what rules they play and that is exactly what I will say if/when (heaven forbid) the day comes that I have to call the police and have dh admitted.
This question about when/how is so puzzling to me. When do you know it's time for placement? I'm sure we all think all is well until something ugly happens and that we SHOULD take care of them for as long as we possibly can - even though we are killing ourselves in the process. I just don't know how to judge when it's time to make a move. Will it ever be time? Our kids (they are actually his girls, but they love me lots :-) have already told me that they would be fine with anything I decided to do. When he got all aggressive with my girlfriend after they brought me home from the hospital, they all told me it was time. But, he has calmed down and is pretty self-sufficient and not being aggressive at all. Just don't know what to do or when. This is all so sad on all levels.
Elaine H - I'll be praying for you that all goes smoothly and quickly. Keep us all posted.
JerryS, interesting thought! I don't know what they would have done if I wouldn't have been home, but I was MAD at the hospital not the poor ambulance personel. But I am on a mission to let the people of this county know what happened & that any caregiver of a person with AD or any dementia could face the same situation that I did!
mothert “when do you know it's time for placement?” Well for me it was a few things. His increasing aggression, the fact that it was starting to feel like I was ALWAYS walking on “eggshells” around him & I never knew when his mood would turn ugly (not violent just ugly – the only word I can think to describe it). I just knew that I couldn't live like that anymore, it was just too stressful. A few weeks ago one of my son's actually asked me what I was waiting for (as far as placing him), which kind of took me by surprise. And of course the final straw was when he got violent & the whole police/ hospital incident. You are blessed (as I am) with the fact that the children are 100% behind you. My DH was one of the ones who right up to leaving here to place him was telling me that he wanted to “go home” so that tells me that he doesn't know where his home is. Hopefully he will come to think of where he is as his “home.”
Btw, I'm mad as hell about what you had to go through with the hospital, that's absolutely ridiculous! The world has to know about this and do something. What can we do? I don't know what the situation is here (washington state), probably no different than your state. I know there is only one geri-psych facility on the west side of the Cascades and I don't know if there is even one on the other side. Ridiculous! However, now I know the magic words - he wants to kill himself. I know it doesn't matter if he kills me, then what would they do with him?? Totally pi$$ed about this. I will talk to my very well connected friend who may have some good ideas. When I come up with something, I will let everybody know about it. Something has to be done about this!!!!!
If this happens in the meantime, if a person is a threat to himself or others they can/should be held for 73 hrs, police can do this, you can do this. Find out what hospital in your area offers a psych unit prepared for this (I was lucky, there was one familiar w/ AD patients - it was 2 hours away, but 72 hours turned into 9 days while they got him stable. This is imperative for your safety & well being. I can't believe they sent him home - they should have sent him to another hospital that could deal with it. I was attacked by my person who never in 27 years had ever raised his voice to me, and he seemed to have super human strength. I hate this disease, and there is so much the books and most websites don't touch of its horrors.