O'Boy....My dh was a Federal retired employee. I called this afternoon to tell them my dh had died and I wanted the necessary forms to file for the widow benefits. Much to my surprise the gal says "we already have notification of his death". I asked who notified them. Her reply was a man called yesterday named Bill and we are required to send him all information regarding the benefits, etc. I was shocked to say the least.
This is the son that couldn't even call to see how his father was doing during the weeks he was on his death bed, but when I first told him his father was declining... he then called me the next day to see if he had a will.
Well...he is going to be in for a rude awakening. I am the sole beneificuary on all the benefits from the Fed. gov. At first I wanted to call him and read him the riot act. I got myself calmed down and I want him to see the official report.....where he will see he doesn't get a dime and his father left everythng to me.
I can't tell you how upset I am about this. But, he will be in for another surprise when my attorney sends him a copy of the will and what he will get. What is with some of these younger people...that they can't wait for the body to cool off. I have just been calling one or two places a day because I can hardly talk when asking for forms.
Oh Judith, that is unbelievable! What is more unbelievable is that the lady you spoke to actually said that she was required to send his son ANY information. But like you said, he will get a rude awakening, which is what he deserves!
I know, I couldn't believe they were required to give that information out to anyone except me. She said that it was the Fed. regulations that anyone can have the information in case they want to make a claim that they are owed something, etc. But, it was a real shock to me.
"Shocking, Judith! Screen all your phone calls should that so called " son" dare to call you and demand "his fair share"...then sic you lawyers on him and do not speak to him..you may have to be civil at the at a memorial service but nothing more. He is disgusting...The snake reared his head before your DH died when he asked about a will...
You have my profound sympathy. Keep a wide distance from the son and protect yourself in every possible way. Block his phone calls; bounce his e-mails. My husband died in Feb. 2011, and his kids are still causing me problems. But with the help of my lawyer, I hope soon to be free of them, and it is a wonderful feeling of release. There was no need for their greed and hostility; my husband has been extremely generous to them all. "The love of money is the root of all evil," says the Bible, and it seems to be true.
I have an appointment Wed. with the Certified Elder Attorney that we had do our trust two years ago. I think the worse is yet to come once they find out how much they are really going to get (not much!). The son has no money for an attorney and I do believe he would have to use a Ca. attorney because he lives in Illinois. I did look up "contesting a will" and was glad to see that one cannot contest a will just because they don't like what they are getting.
Amazing isn't it...he was sure quick to come around when he thinks there's something in it for him. It's always about the money, I'm so glad Judith you got it all sorted and your to get everything...as you should How dare he...
Judith--I'm a retired Fed employee, and to my knowledge, the beneficiary of a survivor's annuity can ONLY be the spouse (if one exists). About 10 years ago, my friend died and she had named her daughter as beneficiary. However, the setup was that since she had a husband, it had to go to him. It was the only option. It may have changed, but I doubt it. So that is probably the information that they'll send to the son.
Just had a friend go through this when her husband died. He was retired Fed. employee. His daughters tried to claim - can't do it. They just managed to put her through H*** before it was all over.
Thinking of you, Judith and praying that this gets sorted out quickly.
Oh Judith, I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. Maybe we should all have a slap fest!!! Just remember you have already been thru worse than anything this evil man can dish out and you weathered the storm. Just wait until he sees what a lioness he is messing with. I give him 2 hard slaps on each cheek!!!
In our trust is clearly states that anyone who contests will be denied what is left to them in fancy lawyer speak. Your trust will stand and this "son" can use any lawyer as long as they have a CA lic so if he finds one in IL I suppose he could use that one...but as you say,,,,
Yes we full time 24/7/365 caregivers have and are going through hell watching our LO fail and be claimed by this disease and we do not need ungrateful, uninvolved children to make our lives even more stressful....and yes, money and possessions are the root of all evil but that is only if the devil is in the soul of that person in the first place.
Judith: I am sorry you have to endure just one more round of pain. I can't imagine how infuriating and draining this must be.
Perhaps others can draw upon the advice provided to me several months ago when I had an Elder Law attorney review our wills, POA, directives, etc. I received this attorney's name from JoanG as one who is very knowledgeable on all Elder Law and AD issues. While JoanG and I live about 40Mi apart the law firm has offices near both our homes.
DW and I enjoy a good relationship with both of our daughters, our sons in laws and grandchildren, as do they with each other. Luckily, we have negativity to cope with. Prior to updating our wills, we discussed with our daughters, who wanted what material items? The disposition of all material items was resolved between the two girls and they provided us with their lists as to who gets what. They are both aware of what they and their children will be receiving and under what specific terms and conditions.
Prior to signing our wills both daughters were supplied with a draft copy to show to their attorney and to suggest if they wanted any changes made or raise any fairness issue questions. None were forth coming. By dealing with the estate issues up front, along with the distasteful task of preplanned funeral arrangements, hopefully will eliminate what JudithKb and other's have gone through with intrafamily strife and allow the surviving spouse to grieve in peace.
"Vulture" is about the nicest thing that could be said for people like this. Cold, heartless, selfish, poopheads, and vultures doesn't even cover it.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this, on top of everything else. I can only hope that what goes around comes around for them, and some day they will find out what it feels like to deal with heartless people like they are. It's just too bad that that couldn't be today.
Marty--the process you've described certainly makes sense, when there is no negativity present. The problem enters, as I see it, when relations are already strained during the period when the legal documents are being drawn up. Showing drafts that won't be received well by family members will probably cause more alienation and stress for the caregiver, who is already coping with a difficult day-to-day situation. The sad fact is, there is no easy way to placate relatives when they aren't being left what they deem they're "entitled" to.
I will never understand how deaths and wills brings out the worst in people. I do genealogy and have found many family splits from hundreds of years ago simply because of wills and property.
When my wife's mother died 20 years ago she left a $100,000 house to divide between 5 children. ONE brother never did understand why he only got $20,000! He was absoluutely sure he was being cheated. If the house brought $100k he MUST be getting more. I guess he failed at long division in elementry school. The anger and hatred lasted for almost a decade until they all finally made up.
I hope it brings you a smile when he learns he gets nothing and that he has to spend a large amount of money trying to find that out. Good luck to you. Jim
Ditto, Jim. Just be dignified, Judith, and realize how much your dear one thought of you to leave you everything. That in itself should give you satisfaction and put a little smile on your face. And we must find our smiles where we can!
I think a lot of problems stem from the fact that there is a second marriage, and the children from the first marriage feel they are entitled to everything -- or a large portion -- when their parent dies.
My mom and dad were married for almost 50 years. None of us expected a dime when my dad died ... everything went to our mother.
But in cases where it's a second marriage, I have seen it time and again where the deceased spouse's children take on his widow, fighting for money.
Mimi, in Florida we cannot put in any kind of wording that says a person who contests the will cannot inherit his/her portion. DH had requested that - but we were told by two different lawyers that it is not acceptable here.
Judith, my heart aches for you. I see myself in the same position some day -- and I know I will get all worked up and upset. I definitely would change my phone number and refuse to talk to my stepdaughter if she became aggressive.
I wish it had been legal to do it in Florida. DH wanted that in so badly. He used to say to me that if he went first, I would be in for the fight of my life.
ms. magic: You might want to look up for the state of Florida the grounds for contesting a will. In Ca. a will CANNOT be contested because someone doesn't like how much or what they are going to get that is in a will....there has to be fraud or someone might have a newer will or the person that signed their will didn't know what they were signing.
The signing of the will with memory/understanding problems can be so important with the spouses in the condition they are in.....if people don't have a will and their spouses are not that far along in this journey they should get that done immediately.
We are fine - we have a pour-over will, which basically puts everything into a trust.
I know the grounds for contesting a will - I went over that with our attorney. The stepdaughter can do whatever she wants - she won't have any grounds. Everything was done properly.
What I was regretting was that we could not put in there somewhere that if she contests it and loses, she gets nothing.
Here is one thing I turned up that validates everything we were told by two different lawyers: No-contest clauses in a will are specifically unenforceable in only two states, Florida and Indiana.
This is another thing I read about contesting a will in Florida. It is exactly what our lawyer told us -- a person can show signs of dementia and still have the testamentary capacity to sign a will.
Testamentary capacity involves the following: The Testator understands (1) the nature and value of his or her "bounty" (assets); (2) the natural objects of that bounty (who should logically inherit the assets); and (3) the legal effect of signing a will. State laws dictate the threshold that must be overcome to prove that a Testator lacked testamentary capacity and usually the bar isn't set very high. For example, in Florida a person can show signs of dementia and yet still have the testamentary capacity to sign a will. Thus, the testimony of the witnesses to the will signing becomes crucial, and absent a doctor's visit or an adjudication of incapacity within days of the will signing, lack of testamentary capacity is difficult to prove.
I am sorry that so many families have to deal with this situation especially during an already sad time. When we were working on a diagnosis 3 1/2 years ago, just a few days before the dr. appointment someone suggested we quickly get our wills, patient advocate and power of attorney done. We were advised that after the diagnosis dh would need an advocate and we would have to go to court to complete this. We were fortunate to get this done before the diagnosis. When he had heart surgery in April I was glad to have it. We have 2 grown sons and they have copies and know exactly what is happening. We are in Michigan.
I guess I really am lucky with my kids (all from first, and only, marriage). When our daughter insisted that we move into the retirement Inn I told her she was spending her inheritance. She said all she wanted was enough to go out to dinner and put a stone in the memorial area (note that the dinner came first)
Yes you are lucky marsh. The problems usually are with step children of the deceased spouse. It seems most step children think they get something before their parent and the step parent are dead. They seem to forget that the surving spouse has to have money to live on and in most cases will lose retirement income, etc. from the deceased spouse. Also, in most cases it is a woman that is left that may not have worked and has no retirement income or personal assets and needs the money more then the children that are left.
If the surving spouse is the natural mother or father there would be fewer problems...it is the step mothers and fathers that are the "bad" "evil" ones.
This is so infuriating , I am boiling .What a sick world sometimes. here you are suffering the loss of your dear husband, took such good care of him, and heartless people just don't give a hoot. I would like to slap them.
Sadly it is all too common. Hang on dear JudithKB* and KNOW you are in the right.
Regarding whether there are legal grounds to challenge a will--even if there aren't, some attorneys will still take on the case, for a fee. In the end, the person suing the estate may not prevail, but there's still aggravation and legal bills for the surviving spouse to deal with. A friend was advised to make sure there would be nothing in the spouse's estate in advance, so even if a lawsuit ensued and the child won it, there would be nothing to collect.
Unfortunately it is not just children. Although I am worried about one stepchild when my DH is gone. My MIL was in denial with my DH's diagnosis. We went directly from the doctors office to our attorneys and had POA and Health care directives drawn up for both of us. We already had wills. I was named my DH's and our daughter was named mine. I knew that he could not make decisions if something happened to me. I also know that this daughter would never do anything to hurt us or her 1/2 siblings and full sister. My MIL does not even understand what these documents are. She took my husband to an attorney and had all of them revoked for him. I hit the ceiling. We had been married 26 years at the time. She would ask him questions about if I had changed the deed to the house, titles on the car etc. she worked him up for a whole year to get him to go with her. His sister and aunt and BIL were involved too. I did not speak to them for over a year after this. We went 2 days later and had the documents drawn up again. Of course we had to pay again. I may talk to them but do not trust them. My daughter still will not spend time with them. Anyway, just watch out for everyone sticking their Nose in your buisness except to help you out with a break. I like how some family members call once a month and feel they are keeping in touch and doing their duty. Sorry, I sound bitter but it just makes me so mad to hear these things.
Today is our 28th anniversary and it is just another day. He of course does not remember. I tried reminding him over the past 7 years, but it upsets him that he forgets. So I just skip it now.
My god this stuff never changes. I'm sorry for those that have to deal with this. Sounds like Judith is covered but what a shock to find out the son has raced in suddenly to get the money. I loved Jim's story about long division. I can just see this toad with a big 100,000 number shining in his little head unwilling to understand.
It doesn't take remarriage. My sister plotted to get POA and when my mom called to ask me about it she was livid at being caught. When she was managing her affairs when mom was in a NH and I used the phrase 'mom's money' she turned on me and blew up. "Stop calling it that!" she demanded wildly. She did care well for mom but she had never saved or built equity and any money sitting burnt a hole into her psyche. I imagined her in the closet wringing her hands muttering '"my precious" looking a mom's savings account.
She did split the estate though. That is after she found out what it was the majority of which I was managing on a joint basis. Would have been easy to just take it legally since this 'joint' status overrides all wills and covenants up here and my sister had no inkling that money existed. But that's why mom set it up with me. She knew that money had power over my sister in that way. I take no credit that it doesn't over me. I think those kind of people are largely victims of a compulsion in the same way that I smoke.
Children. You can't live with them. You can't shoot them.
Wolf, what you describe is unfortunately too typical with families when the last surviving parent dies. I saw it happen among my relatives when one of my grandmothers died ... it was terrible, hateful, and split apart the family.
For many of us posting here, the problem is - as Judith noted - stepchildren expect they should inherit immediately when their parent dies, discounting the stepparent's standing.
For us, it would have been wonderful if we could have put in the clause to exclude DH's daughter if she contested -- because we know, if she has funds, she will fight. I have had long conversations with our attorney about this. But I believe with our pour-over will and trust, she will not be able to get anywhere.
There is also the danger of step-children claiming everything that belongs to the step-parent. Seen this happen once. When someone found out what her step-children were planning this woman was advised to change the locks on her house.
Makes me think in the case of remarriages to settle this issues before the marriage, just as one would do a pre-nup. I suspect that my FIL will not remarry (he has a girlfriend) to ensure that his assets to go his children/grandchildren and her assets to go hers. The don't live together, parents get along with their kids, so this shouldn't be an issue.
I can see why Florida doesn't allow for the "anyone who contests this will won't get anything" clauses because people writing improper wills for others will use this clause to aid in their nefarious deeds.
Many here will remember the H*LL I went through when my DH died and his son contacted DuPont and CHALLENGED the beneficiary clause on DH's insurance policies. Because of his challenge, I did not receive insurance benefits for almost nine months while DuPont's Legal Department reviewed the son's letter and history of the policy. They took their dear sweet time to do that, I will add. Thirty eight years earlier, he divorced his children's mother. She had been the beneficiary on the policy. He remarried and changed the beneficiary to that wife, however she passed away shortly after they married. Two years later, he married me and I was named his beneficiary. The children remembered that their mother had (at one time) been the beneficiary on his policy and so they sued for everything. I paid over $15,000 to an attorney who wrote him several letters explaining that he had no claim whatsoever to his father's estate due to his specific instructions in his will and the fact that he had specifically named me as sole beneficiary on all of his policies. It was a nightmare!!