Could someone please comment on putting money in spouses name? Now is that done, and how long does it take? Does the VA have a 5 yr retrospective policy like Medicaid?
An elder law attorney can answer all your questions aabout transferring assets from one spouse to the other and can also advise you on the best way to do it. As far as VA, to the best of my knowledge, they count all income and assets of both parties, to qualify for VA benefits.
VA has a financial form you fill out when applying for medical benefits. We have to fill one out every year. When my FIL went into the VA facility in Bedford, MA medical paid his medical. When my husband's time comes, again, medicaid will pay (if qualify which we do unless I win the lottery!)
As for the transferring money into spouse only account, as Vickie said you will need to speak to an elder law attorney who will know the particulars for your state.
dancyn, if you are meaning transferring the money from one spouse to another, there is NO lookback penalty for transfers to a spouse in any state. Medicaid does count all assets of both parties and so does the VA, the only thing is that the 5 year lookback does not apply as far as a penalty. It is very complicated and you must seek the advice of an elder law attorney if you feel that Medicaid Or VA nursing home is in your future.
VA will be implementing a means test soon with a more liberal lookback but they will be implementing a lookback of 36 months. remember no penalty for spouse to spouse so don't worry about that
It depends on the wording of the dpoa. But remember, all the assets belonging to both spouses get counted for eligibility. Whether the well spouse's retirement savings (such as a 401K) are counted as money that has to be spent down for Medicaid eligibility varies from state to state, but I believe the VA does count them. I was shocked to discover that my inherited assets that are protected by a pre-nuptial agreement are not protected for Medicaid purposes--I have to spend that down to the allowed amount before Medicaid will help my husband.
LFL, The durable power of attorney has to have gifting wording in the document. All DPOA are not written the same way and it will take an attorney to let you know if yours is wording correct for gifting to the DPOA, themselves.
pamsc is correct in that all assets belonging to both spouses get counted for the eligibility and that Medicaid does not honor pre nups. What most people do not realize is that BEFORE applying for Medicaid it is best to get straight to a Medicaid certified Attorney i again stress BEFORE applying . That is critical, Do not apply until you have been to the Attorney.
Medicaid offers a spouse many options that it does not offer to other family members, the rules are different for a spouse. Many people start trying to spend down and that results in lots of money that a spouse could have saved for themselves by being placed in a non countable asset
Sit back and watch. VA will be implementing look back for transfers soon, if not already.
Do see an eldercare attorney. They can provide important advice. For example, if your IRA or 401K is counted as spenddown money they might suggest moving this money into an annuity which wouldn't be touched.
Jane and Paul, thanks for the information. I have seen 2 elder law attorneys both of whom have said the only way to protect my assets are to put them in an irrevocable trust. Based on my understanding of the trust provisions, i would only allow use of the interest paid, not principle and that would not be enough to support me. Besides, we have no children and I do not want to leave a substantial inheritance to any siblings-either his or mine.
Pamsc, I too have inherited assets in my name only which have never been co-mingled with his/our assets and I've been advised that those assets will also be counted for Medicaid. Can't win.
LFL it depends on which State you live in some allow the medicaid annuity but this should not be done until After the spouse is in a facility and BEFORE you apply. That timing is critical. Depends on the State you live in if this is allowed or not. That is what I did, I was able to save everything, and it was sizable.
The irrevocable trust would have a 5 year look back, you have to realize it would not be a spouse to spouse transfer unless you first had everything in your name and then transferred to the trust. The transfer to the trust will create a 5 year look back period The irrevocable trust is a way to save things but not necessarily the best way. You can't be the trustee, you can't have any control of how the proceeds are withdrawn etc. Not many of us want to do that. Any part of the trust that you control principal or otherwise will be counted.
The interest you receive from the trust can take away the amount you would be allowed to be allotted to you from your husbands pension or Social Security.
If you have not consulted with an Attorney who knows all the Medicaid rules you can mess up. They need to be a certified Medicaid Elder law attorney
Thank you all for the advice. We have seen a Medicaid attorney, who told us that in addition to keeping one house and one car, I would only receive half of our assets, which would not be enough to support me. I may try another attorney , but it sounds as if there is not much to be done for the well spouse. If one is not able to afford nursing home costs, how have any of you managed? Thanks you so much, it is food to have someone to talk to!
dancyn, I believe you've been given similar advice as I have. The elder law atty said "the good news is you can keep your house, car and $100K. The bad news is that you won't be able to afford them and to live."
Jane: "it depends on which State you live in some allow the medicaid annuity but this should not be done until After the spouse is in a facility and BEFORE you apply. That timing is critical. Depends on the State you live in if this is allowed or not. That is what I did, I was able to save everything, and it was sizable."
This is what I did, also. I was able to keep everything altho' my farm acreage is my biggest asset and I'll not be selling that; so I'll not be taking major trips, buying an expensive sports car. (Hb had nothing.) The annuity is irrevocable with a 7 yr payout. So far; so good. Basic house, basic car, basic, basic everything, but basic is okay. Planning to be on this orb some more years.
dancyn Tell me what state you live in. If you live in a state that allows qualified medicaid annuities then your attorney is way off base in the amount you will be allowed to keep
You ask how many of us have managed. If you get to an attorney who knows the rules and laws of Medicaid then you will save everything you have as a community spouse, if you go to an elder law attorney not versed in the laws and they change often then you will not get the benefit the law allows the spouse.
It hurts me when I hear folks who can't get the right advice. I went to one Attorney here in my town not wanting to travel the 3 hours to the attorney I knew had all the certifications just wanted to save a trip. Well, that Attorney told me NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO MAKE A TRANSFER AT ALL since the 5 year rule kicked in, he tried to tell me that the penalty begins just as soon as you apply and never ends. Thank goodness I knew what I could do just knew I had to have the right attorney to put me in touch with the annuity that is allowed. This is a special annuity not just any type of annuity and has to be done just right AND NOT BEFORE PLACEMENT BUT BEFORE APPLICATION FOR MEDICAID.
LFL, Attorney or not your attorney does not know what he is talking about. I know better. I have helped several people through the process and been through the process myself. Sorry that you are given such bad advice and had to pay for it at that.
Jane, would you be willing to help me ask the right questions regarding how to save my money and possibly his? All of his $$$ is in a IRA: mine is a combo-IRA, 401k, investments, real estate. I'll send Joan my email address and ask her to send to you. If you email me pls idenify you are from Joans site because I've had a lot of touble with phising, spam, etc.
I am willing to travel up to 3.5 hours or more to get the right advice. Traveling is nothing compared to what I can lose.
If you dont' apply for Medicaid before they go into a nursing home, after qualifying does it go retroactive? there is no way I could afford even one month since we have no savings and the only income is his SSDI.
LFL, Of course I would be willing to help, the only problem is if you have an attorney who does not really know the rules and how they work it does no good to ask the question. I will be glad to help in any way I can. Medicaid will not bother YOUR IRA
Charlotte You can't apply for Medicaid long term care Before they are in the nursing home, they have to be either in a Nursing home or in patient hospital for at least 30 days before you can apply for long term care. You can apply for Medicaid but long term and regular medicaid are under different rules. The Medicaid long term is retroactive beginning with the very date you are UNDER the income rules. example you will have had to have all assets out of his name, and any excess over your limit into a non counted allowance, and he could have no more than $2,000, from the date that happens after you apply it is retro.
Also Charlotte, once he qualifies if your income is not at least 22,692 per year as of this date, Medicaid will pull the difference from his income and add to yours in order for yours to total the above amount.
Often the Certified Elder Care Attorneys are skilled with the medicaid and va issues..ours is. But with my DHs retired Military income, his VA disability and his SS, we will never qualify for aid..I just have to be VERY CAREFUL of our funds and keep building and building as best I can. I have sole and sep property which is in MY trust and he has his...we did this before he got to the point now where more things have to be explained. So we do have several accounts, I still need to get his name off of my own savings and money market...so much admin...
One little trick I have been doing now for the past 4 years with his and my direct deposits is not log into the check register the full amount of the direct deposit..so if his SS is 780.00 I log in 700.00, His DFAS is quite a bit higher and I minus about 1000.00 and with his VA a few hundred and as time goes along, I " hide" more within checkings....and I keep track of the "buffer funds". We actually started doing this once we had the house all paid for * big grin* and amassed some 56K that way so I am adding on....I will never bounce a check and the funds are there for emergency...some have been used for some work on the house, now I have replaced that and will take on the next house project..I am not using savings from Money Market or other savings or my portfolio. It is taking me longer to get these projects done but....I guess I am a miser. Just call me The Wiser Miser!
Mimi, that is a good idea, to live on these than your income. Though it would seem simpler to have separate savings account for this extra money. No need to calculate the buffer, just go by your bank account. And put the extra in a higher yield account (which seem to be harder to find these days). Just a thought.
Mimi, Where a lot of problems with getting Medicaid is the fact that a lot of people do not want to liquidate the assets from the investments they now have and put them in non countable income. If your income is too high, then NO you will never qualify, and should not try to qualify which of course you say you are not doing. Va will be implementing a 36 month look back on assets if a person transfers and applies for a pension. Va is getting ready to change big time.
Also to LFL, you have to remember being able to save all your assets will most likely mean putting them in non countable funds and that may mean they cannot be kept in tact the way you have them now. Just like the Attorney told you that Irrevocable trust would be the way to go, what happens is that most of the time the person does not want to do that. I would say to you, if you live in a State that allows spousal annuity then ask your attorney how you can implement that.
I am going to be away from the site for a long time, my husband is worse.
Jane, thanks for the advice. I am getting ready to speak with an elder law attorney who supposedly is very familiar with medicaid laws, so I waned your input so I knew what questions to ask that I haven't already asked. Unfortunately in NJ they do count his and my IRAs.
I am sorry to learn your husband is worse and I am sending thoughts and prayers to you both. You help so many here-let me know if there's anything I can do from a distance.