OK. I am truly mortified to ask this. It is gross. Please don't read beyond this if you don't want to read about disgusting bathroom ****.
H has a bathroom and I am not permitted to enter it. However, sometimes I just cannot stand it and go in with gloves, and a mask and vinegar and method cucumber and just purge it. I can't take what he does in there anymore.
So I ordered and assembled a bedside commode. It is sturdy and I bought the pail, the liners and all that great stuff.
HE WILL NOT use it! He persists in doing the usual, for him, disgusting things in the bathroom. Plus, on the days he is as I have learned here, sundowning, it is up and down in and out of that bathroom. Sometimes for hours on end. There the commode sits "bright and shiny and new" and it might be something from the Twilight Zone as far as H is concerned.
Again, my stomach turns while writing this (the Vick's does help when I am actually in there).
I'm just going to post this before I **** out.
I realize there was no "there" in terms of asking a question and it is this: has anyone experienced such a thing? Because it is new, is it somehow threatening? Once I assembled it and showed it to him he actually thanked me and then this.
Abby, most of us here are not shocked by much any more. It is disgusting, and for some it is where they draw the line in the sand and say no more. I was able to handle it well enough. I didn't mind the bathroom mess so much.. it was peeing out the windows, in our drawers, the closet.. just anywhere that got to me.
Is your question how to get him to use the commode? Maybe he really doesn't know what it is for? My Grams didn't have dementia, but she had a lot of pride. She refused to use the commode in her bedroom, she was horrified by the idea. Maybe that could be the problem?
I am just trying to make sure I understand what is upsetting you so I can try to help. Is it the mess he makes in the bathroom? Would he not make the same mess in your bedroom with the commode?
If you don't want him in that bathroom, could you just put a lock on it? Or would that cause him to get angry?
Sorry you are having to deal with this, no fun.. no fun at all!!
abby this brought back memories of when we used to take care of DH Mom, she had Alzheimers, but she was much older, (80), my guy is 63.
Anyway we used to get her on the weekends....she was traded around between us, and dh four sisters. I had NO experience with this, and those sisters did not try to help or advise in any way, just dropped her off and left quickly.
As it advanced, (note, she was not diagnosed, no drugs or treatment only denial), she would get up at least every 5 minutes all night long, thinking she had to pee. Awful awful and of course I was the one to get up and walk with her, and TELL HER YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO!!! She would hit me and yell at me and threaten to pee herself.
IT GOT SO BAD....I set up a comfy cot in the little hall right next to the bathroom, close to the toilet. Sorry if this sounds crazy but if I did not get any sleep for two nights a week I would be batty.
Anyway, she STILL peed on the floor, in the corner, even though the toilet was so close by. And most of the time , she did not have to pee.
My dh has this symptom, no urine infection , a normal swollen prostate, but he goes to the toilet during sundowning and most of the night, sometime every 10 minutes
I am so sorry somehow I can really understand what you are going through. It sounds like his using the commode is going to be an issue, and maybe not work. I am hoping you, or one of us or anyone, can help you with this.
and like Nikki...a P.S. Yes maybe he would make a mess with the commode too. Though I suspect that by him peeing close to the bed you will not be disturbed as much as his up and down, up and down.
For several years now H and I have pretty much split up the house. Mine: what was the master bedroom and bathroom and sunroom which is adjacent, also the office (computer room); where I am now. His: his bedroom, the hall bathroom across (the one in dispute) and what was the great room, kind of an open living room and dining room. There is a .5 bathroom off the walk in pantry and laundry room. Guess what?! He forgot it is there and I am not going to share that!
We each have access to the kitchen, and the pantry and the eating area adjacent to the kitchen.
I pretty much keep relevant doors closed because it just has to be that way and he does not come into my bedroom, my bathroom or the sunroom.
So, more gross. In his bathroom he pees in the sink. This I can deal with. I wipe off the vanity: I don't go in there for any other reason. It is the other "product" (Lord help me here) for which I bought the commode and just want him to use. I will empty the liners. I have demonstrated it over and over again- here is the splash guard, here is how the seat and cover level, here are the liners- I WILL DO IT ALL.
Nope, back to his bathroom and whatever he thinks is what he has to do.
Hugs back! This site and you who help me are my only antidote to crazy town.
When I placed Lynn, they called for a care plan meeting right away. I laugh now, because they said to me in a horrified tone, he is peeing everywhere! Out the window, in the drawers, in the trash can and in the sink!!! My reply, I know! That is one of the reasons he is here! This IS what you are suppose to be equipped to handle right? Of course they were, but told me they had never had anyone who peed just anywhere. I find that hard to believe as once when I went in his shared bathroom, I found poop in the corner!! NOT funny, but I do have to laugh looking back on it all.
They wanted to know what I thought we could do to help him use the bathroom and not pee everywhere. Where it was a small room compared to a whole house, it was easier to address. This is what I came up with....
Firstly, take out the trash cans as that was his favorite pee spot.
Next clearly mark the bathroom on the outside of the door with a picture of a toilet. On the inside of the door, put a sign with an arrow saying Lynn's room. (yes he got lost in the bathroom)
We did put a commode near his bed. It didn't work, he had no idea what it was. So we wrote sign in huge black bold lettes that said "Pee Here"…..Ha! It worked well. We also did this on the toilet in the bathroom.
Of course his incontinence got worse and worse, but he still had the urge, or the habit of using the bathroom. This method worked well for awhile until he could no longer walk. *sigh*
Now they have this neat commode type chair with wheels, it slides right in over the toilet. It works wonders! When he is done, I just slide him out, chair and all, and can clean him up great right in the chair.
I hope some of that helps Abby. Until you find what works, the Vicks is your best defense. I feel for you!!!
See one of the things the place is so wonderful for is a) contant reminder of things you need to do i.e. look ahead for places, even if your not ready now (so valuable to know your options, information is our friend) b) things can always be worse i.e. poop not in pooper. Abby I to have Hubby peeing at will between his bathroom and bedroom. He sleeps in a different bedroom and has a different bath. I am grateful at the present he's a one poop a day guy. But he can't do any of that alone not even wipe is own butt. And he has the smellest poop. I buy my gloves at Sam's in bulk and my pee pads at the pet store. I have more cleaning supplies then anyone house can have :) With working full time I have a Care aid in the morning with him, they have more fun and laughs about his poop. When I take over at night and weekends I follow her lead and just clean up everything and everwhere. And after reading your thread will be grateful to do it this way for now because I know it will all change on a dime and NEVER for the better.
abby there comes a time when you just have to take the bull by the horns and if his section of the house is intolerable and needs to be cleaned then hire someone to come in say every 2 wks to do it. you can distract him long enough to get his done hopefully. a meal out or a ride in the car? we cant allow them to make rational judgement calls and having fecal matter in an unsanitary environment is not healthy for you or him. fecal matter dries and can spread with spores if thats any help or hinder. it can become a health issue. i know you say he doesnt 'allow' it to be cleaned but each of us here have had to deal with an unruly spouse giving out orders and demands. most of them we try to overlook and pick out battles. fecal matter is a battle you cant ignore for long. on them, or in the household environment. we have lots of threads on ways to bring in help to clean or get a sitter for them, EVEN if they are saying they dont tolerate someone in the home, this is where we use the fiblets (white lies) and coaxing. while yes i have the title poop queen, and believe me, your story doesnt raise an eyebrow here, i have some if you read old posts that would curl your hair:) - you have to be able to make the calls when judgement goes astray. they have no idea about cleanliness and disease control and so its our duties as thier '[person in control" to make it happen any way we can. if indeed you arent able to get a grip on all this then like we say here some have the incontinence issues as the line in the sand for placement. some just cant deal. and its ok. this may also be the one of the reasons your parents are so worried for you friend. the inability to get things in your own house under control is a cause for concern. i hope you know we only try to help and give constructive offers of help, i hope you can reevaluate and come to some good ideas to work to get this worrisome issue under wraps. it obviously is a source of intense stress and anxiety for YOU and will eat at you til you find a way to remedy it. good luck, remember you arent alone here and so many of us have these SAME or worse issues. divvi
Abby--the core issue here, I think, is that your husband needs supervision whether he tries to use a bathroom or a commode placed elsewhere. We never had the problem you described, and my husband readily accepted help with toileting, but perhaps others can tell you how they accomplished it. I think visual agnosia (not recognizing things) causes AD patients to mistake other objects for toilets--sinks, wastebaskets and heating registers on the floor seem to be popular choices.
I realize that monitoring toileting is a big job--it means, essentially, keeping an eye on him at all times. Perhaps it's time to bring in home health aides to help you do that.
I agree about keeping an eye on him, but if he's going all night up and down up and down, i think I'd try some kind of knockout drops, and insist on his wearing a Depends at night..
There were two metaphors that came to mind when I was dealing with all this. One was of the Roomba - you know that little vacuum which, when it finds it can't go any further it backs up and tries a different direction. On and on. This is what we have to do.. when one trick stops working, we have to back up and try another one.
The other, not so applicable now, is the Magic Feather, as in the feather that Dumbo needed to hold in his trunk so he could fly. I found it very useful to find some THING my husband could hold or fixate on, while I cleaned him up or moved him. The last thing before he died was the Singamjig, a toy which this PhD mathematician enjoyed squeezing and listening to! If he was holding THAT, I could do almost anything with him.
I was so afraid to post on this topic. Not only that, but I left it until last before I signed off tonight.
Not only do I feel gratitude, but i feel like I have sat in the middle of a wisdom circle.
Thanks to all of you, this is what I can do today-
I do think H was unable to accept the presence of the commode in his bedroom. Even though I demonstrated many times how it worked, the glazed look was really there.
So, today- I moved it into his bathroom. Not, btw, used yet, and yes, I did a purge cleaning of the bathroom today.
VICK'S!
I agree about choosing battles. For example, he calls the cats by different names. I feel hurt by this, not for me but for them. Over the last months they have distanced themselves from him, it is like they can sense it.
So, like choosing battles, that is not one. I don't want to confront H about his bathroom. As I learned from the above posts, he cannot have the same perception I do about cleanliness, smells, etc. Also, he is respectful of my privacy in my bedroom and bathroom and I don't want to initiate a confrontation that will challenge that.
But what I can do is this- I don't need his permission to go in there. He sleeps so much of the time. I will just go in there and if there is poop where there should not be, or urine stains, so be it. I will have my gloves, my plastic bags and I will clean it up and then spray lysol all over the place.
At least that is what I will do for now while I continue with my other efforts- as has kindly been suggested here.
Yes, it is still my hope and plan to have him placed, as N, care manager, I, and everyone else recommends.
I will do what I can today, and tomorrow, and continue to work on the other stuff.
THANK YOU- YOU ARE MY LIFELINE!
PS- I have a Roomba- a malfunctioning Roomba and btw, there is a class action suit because they do not operate as promised and their "battery cannot be recharged". (I will say no more!)
I can't believe what I have adapted to! Every night I put paper towels around the toilet. DH misses the toilet and they absorb the urine and make it easier to clean up. Clorox spray bleach and scrub brush are my frequent companions. I have already recaulked around the toilet where the urine was getting in. Every morning I too put on my plastic gloves and disinfect. Sometimes it's good to have a small living space!! Just when I thought that I adapted to that the frequent diahrea started! DH is now in depends 24 hours. I will spare you the details but we found that DH had impacted feces (result of constipation, inactivity, not drinking enough water??) so last Friday he drank the solution that one drinks for colonoscopy. To say "the sh-- hit the fan" would be an understatement!! DH became confused and disoriented because it took so long. So, I got through that night (up until 1 am). Going to the bathroom is still a fight though. I thank God he goes to bed fairly early (9:30pm) and sleeps later (10am), so I have some quiet time.
Well, Lloyd still uses the toilet, but I have to take him there and pull down his pants and sit him down and wipe him and pull the pants back up. It goes well as long as I wake up. This morning, he woke up at 5:30, stood in our bedroom and peed his pants. I got him to the bathroom and a battle ensued trying to get his clothes off. Woke the grandson who came to see if he needed to intercede. It seemed like forever until I got the wet clothes off, got him washed, and in his bathrobe. Then had to take clothes and all the bath rugs to the basement and come back and scrub the floor. God, I hate this disease!!! A morning like this one makes me want to OD him on sleeping pills and put a bullet in my brain! If I didn't have you all to vent to, I could very easily do just that. Thanks and I love you guys!! You save my sanity and my life all the time!
over the years, due to this very reason i learned to sleep VERY light linda - it was worth it to me to miss the sleep rather than spend the wee hrs cleaning up the carpets or bathroom. if he moved my eyes were open, as i knew what could come. so i would get up to get him to the bathroom before the fun began.:) you will learn what makes it easier along the way but its not easy to deal with. the 'death grip', as i call it on the pants when they need to be changed, well its a duzzy those white knuckles that are welded to the pants. it brings back memories, i feel for you, but take heart, once they get into a deeper stage it seems to get easier unfortunately.
divvi, who would think they could hang onto those pants like that?!? I do take him to the bathroom before bed every night; but if he falls asleep, I have to get up in the morning when he does to take him first thing. AND sometimes I am so exhausted that I can't drag myself out of bed so I pay. Right now I have a Depends on him. I usually wear one on him after he's had an accident. Isn't that genius!!! Putting the cart before the horse! I just don't want to spend all that money on Depends if he doesn't need them. I just can't bear to throw away an unused Depends and I don't want to keep him in the same one for days. What to do?!?
Linda Mc--Store brand pullups (I like Walmart's) are much cheaper than brand name. In the "intermediary" stage when he had occasional accidents, I put one a day on my husband. If it stayed dry and clean, I let it stay until the next day (just like regular underwear). If your husband will tolerate it, some people put just a booster pad in the regular underwear during this period--better than nothing and cheaper than full-fledged pullups. My husband noticed the pad immediately and wouldn't wear it, but had no objection to pullups instead of regular underwear.
use a pad in the depend and if its a light cleanup you can get away with using the depend again with just a new pad inside. it saves changing depends alot of the time. pads are less expensive- :) try the tena overnight 8 shaped ones. they are bigger, and cover most of the depend inside and soak up alot without messing up the depend --the trick will be getting the depend down long enough from the 'death grip' to replace the pad, but its easier than changing the whole thing. i can change DH now while hes laying down with just a new pad, 'practice makes perfect' <VBG
I was laughing at your topic title. Honey there are NO embarrassing questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got over the embarrassing years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not at this yet phase yet with DW, went thru this with mother in law. For ease of clean up I fabricated 3 sheets of plastic to surround the toilet and a forth sheet cut to fit the base of the toilet. upon encountering a "mess " I would place the sheets of plastic into the bathtub which was adjacent to the toilet, use the hand shower to "hose" them down, mop the floor if necessary, just let the plastic drip dry in the tub. Of course everything was disinfected washed down with Lysol and Clorox
It has been about a week, and I have to thank you for your support and suggestions.
As of today- pretty much success- and I do realize that can change at any time.
I moved the commode into his bathroom. Consequently, and with my convenience in mind, I placed it so that it blocks the toilet. The toilet- I taped it shut. He will, by his own admission, continue to pee in the sink. He is tall, so it does not make so much of a mess (if you had told me even a year ago this would be my reality I would have never believed it). This I can take care of with lysol while wearing gloves- bargain packaged at CVS. This is not a battle.
I didn't really tell him I was going to go in there everyday- despite his forbidding- I just have.
The suggestion I really had the most resistance to was the sign. I struggled with this! How can a person with such intelligence be told where to eliminate!
But I did it. Used a sheet of copier paper: in bold- ____ POOP HERE!
Combining all these has worked to the extent that he has actually used the portable commode and bagged the product, twisted the bag shut and left it on the floor.
I remove it, put in a clean liner, spray with lysol, then spray and wipe the vanity. I have another plastic sack nearby- put in the bag, my gloves, place the lysol in the vanity cabinet and it is done.
So, for now, saving my breakdowns for something else.
(And that something else is the N: another day, another topic).
abby this is good news and shows you have the strength to get thru this part as well. there will be more challenges but you can do it!! good for you, be proud of yourself, yes save the breakdown for something in the future. :) divvi
abby--if only we could remove all the sad emotions from everything we must do as dementia caregivers. What you did, basically, was to make accommodations in his bathroom for his disability. If it was any other illness, I think we could approach it without torturing ourselves so much. I understand the struggle you had with the sign, but glad you did it and are coming to terms with the bathroom situation.
Don't you just wonder where they get the strength to hold on to those wet depends so tightly that you can not get them down??? And then when you get them off (after just tearing the sides)their feet are planted so firmly on the floor that you can not get the new depends on!