Did you know there is only one thread in which the topic word was "suicide" and that one was regarding fear that the spouse with AD would commit suicide. So, thought I would start one and include depression.
please don't think I am currently in danger of offing myself. If I were I don't think I would be posting this. I have tried to find some statistics on caregiver suicide but haven't turned up much.
I added depression to the topic as I am hoping those with clinical depression (now referred to medically as Major Depressive Disorder") will speak out here. Those who know me on this site probably are aware I fight a daily battle with depression and trust me I have left few stones unturned. and yes I am on meds. I've learned through living with AD now over 4 years since dx and a few hears before that in a depressing marriage due to symptoms I didn't know were beyond his control. He was dx at 63. I was 54.
But when things just pile on and on and on as they have lately and having lost my family and had to face the fact that my son seems incapable of empathy, I oft sink into horrible hopelessness. During those times I can not think of anything worth continuing on for, anything I might enjoy.......nothing. And the suicidal thoughts pop up more and more and more.
last night I went to a suicide prevention website and it said suicide is when the pain is greater than our resources to deal with them. it also asked that the person reading just postpone the actual event for awhile keeping the security that it is still an option. I think that is what I have been doing: seeing suicide as one of my options. I don't like this. I have always been so full of life. whe I read what people used to say about me I feel tremendous loss. ran across a comment from trustee chair at my old church calling me "the bubbles in our champagne.". Or an award created for me "the incredible lightness of being award."
I miss her so much and feel totally disconnected from the old me. sometimes in public I can put on the act for a short time but I have to crawl under the covers in exhaustion when I get him.
My shrink referred to my suicidal thoughts as "escape fantasies.".
enough from me. I would so benefit, as I'm sure would others, from hearing from those of you with personal experience.
Terry, this is a difficult subject for me... I am not sure if you are aware that my Dad took his life... it is so very painful.... I can not openly talk about it on a public forum, but I will say the combined loss of Dad and the constant presence of losing Lynn was more than I could bear.... I joined a survivors of suicide support group, it helped me a great deal. Just as being here with people who truly understand, so it is true with all like support groups.
You mentioned you are on medications, that is a good start. But are you talking with someone to help you through these feelings? Terry, it is very difficult to openly express when we are having these feelings. I find it courageous of you to do so. ((hugs)) I hope you understand that it is just too painful for me "to go back there" but if I can help you in any way I would be glad to do so!!! Do you have facebook? If you write me there, I WILL respond to you. I am not sure how much I can help.... but I WILL listen ♥
Terry, thanks so much for sharing so openly, hang in there, lots of (((HUGS))) from all of us. Thoughts are with you.
This experience is enough to make anyone depressed, even those like you who have been (and still will be again, I'm sure) the bubbles in the champagne.
I join with the others in encouraging you to speak to professionals who can really help you over this hurdle. Just the thought of entertaining such a thing is a cry for help. And heaven knows, those of us in the caregiving role have stresses that would break most people.
I think we all face the threat of depression to greater or lesser degrees depending upon the situation as we struggle to help our LO get through the crisis one after the other without losing our selves, our minds, and our lives.
You have brought up a very important subject that should serve as a warning to all of us that when we are falling into perpetual blues we need to seek help and I am so glad you have. Hang tough, you are not alone.
Terry I think you found a way into my head. I live with the thoughts you described daily. I, like you, am not suicidal but do look at this as an option. I feel like there is nothing to look forward to after the passing of my dh. I am a christian and do have faith. That is what gets me thru each moment. But I also feel like the informant that told God I could handle this was lying to him. I can't handle this with the dignity that I had before my dh was diagnosed. I feel like you do on so many levels it scares me. I do know this is a cry for help, but I also know help is not here. I do agree this is an excape fantacy but I need this option to help me make it thru each day. You know it is sad when that is the only option you think is there for you..... I know we need help but talking is just not always enough. I too an on med but have been off for a few months now. Can't wait to get my chill pill back...... it is my little blue friend that keeps me balanced. The only reason I am still here with my dh is because I am not suicidal. I know you all understand. Terry thanks for opening this discussion. It helps to know others are thinking like I am but it is also so sad that this is what has happened to us. And yes, I love life also and before this disease entered in our life had hopes and dreams of living a long happy life with my dh. I would rather be with him even if it meant I leave this earth with him. It would not be a loss as much a blessing because I would be happy again. That is not happening lately........ Good night and God Bless.
Terry - I have fought the thoughts of suicide all my life starting from my childhood. I have even attempted it once when I was 17 and a friend who had never visited came by. I have thought of it often - while driving, while laying in bed at night,, etc. and was even a cutter - self mutilation they call it. There has not been much happiness in my life and was praying when we started workamping there would be. It was working until his diagnosis and life changed forever. I read the book 'The Leisure Seeker' about an elderly couple - he has AD, she has late stage cancer. I can't believe it has been 3 years since diagnosis but I do not think I can handle 10 or 15 years of this and the ended of that story is always an option. Right now I am working and feel more alive than I have in a while. I still have not started on loosing any of the 50 pounds I gained the 2years after his diagnosis, but if I do not soon - well it was embarrassing figuring out what size shirt I needed here for work. I had told her 3x on the phone but for some reason because they were men's sizes she thought a x-large would do but it was too tight. Another reminder of what I let happen to me (with the weight gain.
You are not alone with suicide as an option lurking in the back of your mind. As others have said you are not alone. The only thing that keeps me from trying again is what a pastor said to me once 'I would not want to stand before God and have to tell Him why I did not trust him enough to live'.
Phew! Making it through this nightmare that we all live is a daily struggle (putting it lightly). Without my faith and the knowledge that my life doesn't belong to me but to the Lord above; yes, I too, have briefly and fleetingly entertained these same thoughts. Because we have to abandon our selves and our own aspirations for the futures we have dreamed of and because there really is no future that we can count on, it so often seems so hopeless. Yesterday I had the joy of spending almost the whole day with two very good friends while the husband of one of them took my dh for that whole time - what a blessing. However, I couldn't really feel like I was even there; instead I felt like an observer looking in on what living a normal life used to be like. Gosh, it was pathetic that I couldn't even enjoy a day away with two women that I love dearly. And, when I got home to dh, he was like a toddler, clinging to me and wanting all my attention which I didn't want to give. It was a bizarre out of body experience.
I just have to pray and pray for God's grace and strength and daily guidance because I don't have the necessary strength of my own to endure without Him. Each day is a new day and some are better than others. Prayer is really the only medicine that works for me.
Well, I am so sorry that my rant here wasn't more uplifting and I don't have any words of wisdom. We all know what you are going through, Terry, and want to put our arms around you and comfort you and magically make your life like it was. I can only hope that we can all someday regain some of what we have lost on this horrible journey.
Nikki, my father also killed himself when I was 29. My first bout of clinical depression came in the aftermath of that. I am on facebook but tried to close out my account last hear to no avail so I don't post but can be reached there. My email is also in my profile.
When I said I had left no stone unturned I really meant it. I have used therapy whenever the need arose beginning with my father's death. I was seeing a counselor back in Virginia before we moved here and even got DH to go with me because our marriage was so unsatisfactory due to what I later learned to be dementia symptoms. then I got a therapist as soon as we moved here in 2007 and then a few months of depression focussed cognitive therapy and I now have a psychiatrist who is mostly a prescribing doctor but he will give me all the time I need. I don't think there is anyone who has invested more in getting past depression than I have. "inner work" has been a big part of my adult life and as a facilitator of healing circles myself for many years I was part of a group that met a few times a year as a sort of "healing for healers" retreat
I don't know if you all listened to the NPR series on Tom debaggio and his wife and son. There is one interview with his wife that left me feeling a lot less alone in my inability so far to conquer this. she said she was never able to win her battle with depression and she regretted that. I remember something I think he wrote about her being awake until 4 am most nights. I used to love early mornings but since AD I can't or am just unwilling to get to sleep before 3 am at the earliest. I know it has something to do with feeling normal while DH and the dogs are sleeping although I must admit that a lot of those hours are also spent in sadness and dread.
maybe I am overestimating myself but I think I could have handled the AD as difficult as it is if it had not been accompanied by the cruel coldness and abandonment by my family which is one of the reasons we moved out here, to be within a couple hours of my mother and sister. long story, can't bear to talk about it anymore, but the result is I have lost my family (more appropriately the naive hope for a family that never really existed in the first place) through some devastating emotional experiences. the betrayal by family, the workers who renovated the house, and recently even DH's caregiver who had been with us for six months, etc. it seems like there is no end to the pain .
But I didn't start this thread just for me. I hoped others would share their struggles and what works for them.
Charlotte, I also read The Leisure Seeker and know it has had a great influence on me. when DH and I went to Oregon fall of 2009 and we drove (he most drove just like in the book) down the coast and around staying in b&bs that book was constantly on my mind. I clearly remember when we were going through the DX process a good friend of mine came over to talk with me. Her husband who was one of my closest friends had some form of EOAD. 2008 I returned to VA to give a portion of his eulogy. I said to her, "well I just know I can't do what you are doing!". Many of her friends used to say that. I will never forget her response, "well just what WILL you do then?". That is when it hit me that you do what you have to do. That afternoon I desperately started throwing out options to her one of which was "wouldn't it be. Reasonable option to take whatever money we have and travel the world and then just jump off a bridge together?". Sometimes I wish we had gone that route. DH has had four worry free years here in this vacation town and for most of that time he loved walking to the pubs, listening to live music, hiking, restaurants..... Most of this time for me though has been hell and for the most part I am able to keep the stress away from him which is fine by him. he lost empathy early on and from the day it was clear there was something really wrong he never opened another piece of mail or inquired about finances which he had handled entirely for nearly 30 years. Overnight he just assumed I would forever more take care of every single thing. H occasionally tried sometimes to help but when pressed he would say, "life isnt worth anything if you (meaning him) if you can't have fun. He used to be so interested in my work as a rare bookseller but has not mentioned it since day one. it is like I as a separate person just ceased to exist. I am no longer angry at him but I am angry!
Guess writing all this kept me from sleeping even at my usual 3am. Was still wide awake at 6 but got a couple hours sleep after dealing with dogs. I did do a lot of thinking and remembered when I talked with my old friend whose husband died from AD a couple years ago we talked about how for some people suicide is just never an option like they are just hardwired that way nothing to do with religion or even I terior strength. she is like that as is my DH. I never feared he would choose that.But like Charlotte said about herself, for me it has always been an option and I have no idea why. And it didn't start with my father's suicide.
I do not consider it seriously like I did a couple years ago. At that time I made some foolish financial decisions running up a big cc debt because I didn't care about providing for my own financial future. I would never do anything to jeopardize DH's future. I used Divi's story about running up cc bills so she and her DHcould travel the world as my rationalization. So I spent $ on some traveling with him and a costly deck off dining room I knew he would enjoy, paid for my son and his family to fly out here and all their expenses, etc etc. After i broke free of that severe depression I regretted my financial irresponsibility and started thinking about actually having a life of my own in the future and even now. And I have been trying with every ounce ofmy being but wonder if maybe I am subconsciously bringing on negative stuff.
Travel? DH and I had plans to travel to Palm Desert for 3 weeks in January. For one reason or another (mostly cold weather - who wants to drive 3000 miles for cold weather??), we had to cancel 3 different times. I think that obviously we weren't meant to go that far away. Anyway, in that time I've also realized that long trips with him are no longer in our future - he can't hold his urine and sometimes the other, and he's so dependent that it wouldn't be a vacation for me at all. Last spring we did take a wonderful trip across Canada from one coast to the other. He did all right on that trip but I don't think he remembers even much of that one. I, on the other hand, had a wonderful time and stocked up many wonderful memories for the two of us. Now, he only wants to go somewhere every day - just not far. I have to most of the time tell him no because I have things to do. He does have a childlike attitude now days. In the old days when he was handling the finances, he was fairly stingy about many things (not when he wanted something, however, the money magically appeared). So, life with a love partner has been totally replaced with life as a caregiver, decision maker and "mommy" persona. It is totally amazing to me that he could change this much! And, money - yikes! I'm now responsible for the family finances. DH did so well and now I'm just trying to not spend it all. I have a tendency to be overly-generous (that's my nature). Now that I have all this responsibility I have to carefully decide as to whether we NEED it or not. I used to spell "need" "I want it" - not anymore! Wish I had a crystal ball.
I have thought about it several times when I could not see my future getting any better. What stops me, is hurting my grandchildren, just couldn't put something like that in their memory of me. Another reason is their seems to be something always in the way....grand children's music program, graduations, weddings, baseball games, birthday parties, etc. I have also learned if you wait long enough, life changes, nothing stays the same forever, just keep that in mind and it will keep you going.
We had a dear friend we had known for over 20 years kill himself 3 weeks ago. It has been one of the hardest things for me to get over. I know so many of his friends, as well as myself feel so guilty because we did not see this coming. Over 300 people showed up to the visitation and I know any one of us would have done anything to have helped, all he needed to do was ask. When any of us asked he would say he was doing fine. A suicide hurts so many, in so many different ways. If he could only have seen the pain of his mother or his son. I know that is not what he wanted.
I have in years past thought of suicide, but have never really thought of doing it. I know that if we just wait things change. I can understand the utter despair that pushes us to the edge, real pain that at that moment in time is hard to overcome. My heart breaks for us as we feel that very real pain in our lives daily, as we watch our loved ones slip from our lives.
I would think that if you are taking anti-depressants and are thinking about suicide, you are taking the wrong anti-depressants. They are clearly not working and you should talk to your doctor immediately about discontinuing them, and once that is accomplished you can decide if you want to try a different one. I know these pills are life savers for many people, but they do, for some, have the pesky side effect of suicide. That's right, the pill you're taking to improve your mood, may be the very thing that causes you to take your life. The risk of suicide as a side effect is increased for you because of your family history. Don't tell yourself that you are not "currently in danger of offing myself." With these chemicals that could change in a heartbeat, because you are not in control - the drug is. You have been under a lot of stress and anyone in that situation would be feeling overwhelmed, and depressed. But no matter how bad things are I hope you don't devise a permanent solution to any of life's temporary problems. Get that stuff out of your system and give yourself a chance to cope. Right now it appears to be handicapping you - not helping you.
mary - you are right. I had been on prozac for a couple years when I found I had stronger feelings of suicide on them than off, so I weaned myself off. I have been through counseling and was a counselor for 3 years to women who were abused as children as I was.
Last year I was reading an article that they found there can be permanent damage done to an area of the brain when a child is abused that will cause these suicide thoughts and no amount of drugs or counseling can help them. I think that is the case with me. Childhood abuse and an adult life filled with pain/hurt adds up. But, you learn to live with it like chronic back pain (which I have due to being swayback and overweight). You have days you wake up and the thought is not somewhere in the back of your emotions. Occasionally you have days where it does not show up. It becomes like another personality or friend lurking there. For me the easiest way to keep it calm is not to think too much of the future - take it one day at a time. Always, not just now with AD world, if I think past the day to the future the thoughts get stronger.
I wish people would stop taking it personally when someone takes their life. I guess because I have been to that point so many times, I understand what they are going through. I also understand that for some of us there is no 'help' for them - no amount of medication or counseling that will help. There are those who take their life who really do not want to die and are hoping someone will show up at the last moment.
But, there are also those who have lived with the inner pain and torment that know nothing will help and just want to be out of pain and for them death is the answer. They are the ones with "terminal cancer aka mental pain" and choose when to end it instead of letting the cancer have control. If someone has terminal cancer and are in end stages in tremendous pain - would you feel so guilty if they choose to end it? Yes, you would be sad for them, but would you feel guilty? I think from my own experience, that mental pain can be just as bad as physical pain. The pain can be so intolerable that no amount of psych meds, counseling or outside help can ease it. That is why many turn to cutting or self mutilation.The end is near and they choose when it comes and take control.
People are always asking why others can not accept the fate of AD victims. They get angry because there are no outside physical signs people can see, they think it is not that deadly or painful. Just like AD/dementia is an inside disease, so is mental illness. There is usually no physical evidence of the disease (at least not until later on for AD) but for some reason when someone chooses not to live any longer with it they are considered cruel for ending it. If they have an incurable cancer people are sad but understanding. They may get angry because the cancer victim did not endure the pain until the end for the survivors sake, but they do not feel the guilt like they do with suicide.
For those dealing with the aftermath of a loved one taking their life, I urge you to consider thinking of it as them having cancer - mental cancer - and they choose to end the pain on their terms, not the family, doctors or worlds terms. They do not tell others because they know they will get the same replies: there is medication, counseling, etc that will help. What about me? You won't go to Heaven. It really is not that bad and the list of 'helpful' remarks goes on. How many of us are tired of people minimizing our spouses illness? How many of us are tired of hearing: it is just a little memory loss; it is not that bad; they will get better; you are over exaggerating; etc.
Please, please - Stop feeling guilty and stop blaming yourself. Instead, accept that they did what was right for them at the time. You may not agree but in no way are you at any fault or should carry any guilt. Just as anger will eat you alive so will guilt. To be so miserable for guilt that is not yours is even worse. For years I felt that I was responsible for the abuse my abusers gave me - was guilty as charged. I had to accept that they choose what they did - to kill my childhood - not me. Let the guilty go and live with the good memories. Change your thinking from suicide to they died of incurable mental cancer. Not the gun, pills or however they ended it - but incurable mental cancer.
Right now my cancer is not incurable cause miracles can happen. Right now it is stable. Will it become incurable - I don't know. Only time will tell. For me it is stabilized because I do not want to stand before my God and answer why I did not trust Him enough to live. Others have their own lifeline to latch onto to go on. But, for those who take their life I believe it is because the cancer has won over their lifeline. No one should ever, ever feel guilty.
Charlotte, those are wise words from someone who has been on the brink of suicide. We are glad you are here and hopefully ypour words will comfort someone who has had a suicide in the family.
First, thank you all. I appreciate your concern for me more than words can say. That said, as I said in my original post I was hoping to open this to a discussion beyond me to others sharing similar thoughts and wanted to hear any stories of those with a history of clinical depression pre dmentia.
Several people opened up with similar thoughts and I hope people will read through this thread and make sure we don't overlook them. It took courage for them to speak out. Don't feel just because I have babbled on here at greater length that I deserve anymore concern, advice, support than others.
Charlotte, you have made some very good points. I need to re-read them to do justice.
Mary22003, iwill check with. My doctor about whether Lexapro could be adding to the suicide ideation. However one thing several doctors have told me since DH's dx is that there is no way I can reasonably expect under these circumstances to be depression free no matter what medication I am on. I have probably tried 8 to 10 antidepressants including combos. I was on Lexapro before DX and it made a huge difference but after 3 years it stopped working and so I tried numerous others. Found a new psychiatrist specializing in depression who said let's try Lexapro again. maybe it will work again. I think that was Aug 2010 and. It got me out of bed and functioning and cut way down on the despair.
mammie I was touched by your words. Please email me if you ever want to talk. I don't have the kind of faith you have and can see how helpful it is to others so I wish I did. I also would never leave DH while he needs me.
Forgot to mention this man's blog and book titled "living with an Imposter: a confluence of art, dementia and depression" by Lawrence W. Lee. I found it in my searching for people with depression taking on a dementia spouse.
He is (or was, I can't find anything on or by him in the last couple years) a successful artist with chronic depression whose artist wife came down with EOAD. a raw, open and compelling book available through amazon so Joan can get credit I hope. You have to really search around on his blog for pertinent information but it is worth it.
thank you Terry for your concern. I appreciate the offer to talk and I will probably take you up on this. I know we need other people to help "hear us out" and give us comfort in the fact that we are not crazy or just wanting pity. We need someone to listen. Many of the things that we are told we already know, whether it be about ad or depression, but it always helps for others to validate our thoughts and to give input. This input is strength that we need even tho we already know it. Thanks again and hope you have a great night....why we are still up at this late hour is beyond me,,,,,, but sleep is not my friend these days........ am going to give it a try in a few tho...... good night......
mammy, sleep is not my friend either. I also know that sleep deprivation is playing hell with my mind. Would love to talk with you too. I do have a few good friends I can talk with but I know they can only understand to a degree and I yearn for convo with people who get it without lots of explanations. When I lived in Northern VA outside DC I was in a couple AD support groups and DH and I were in an EAOD one together. I miss those people and can't wait until we move to Richmond where they have an even better alz organization.
Charlotte, I do agree that one should not feel responsible, or therefore guilty if a loved one chooses suicide. Easy to say, but hard to implement when you are actually living it. Being a survivor of my Dad's suicide, I do have to say that losing a loved one to suicide is something that will haunt the survivors for the rest of their lives.
I take my Dad's suicide VERY personally. The day he took his life, he also ripped apart his family. He didn't just kill himself, he killed a part of everyone who loved him. He left a wife, he left 7 children, he left 12 grandchildren, his siblings, his extended family and his many friends. Each of our lives are altered by his choice. Those closest to him, will never be the same again......
My Dad's death, almost destroyed me. I did not think I could survive. 3 years later, and it still has the power to drop me to my knees....
Something to think about......Other than in certain extreme cases.... a rational mind does not think suicide is a valid option. If someone is thinking about suicide, there is something desperately wrong. To use the cancer analogy, if one has cancer they do not just let it consume them... they get treatment and fight to live.
Though it is that persons "right" to choose suicide.... I have to say as much as I love my Dad, it was a very selfish choice. His pain ended, but it did not die with him! .... It now lives in me, in all of us he left behind. We are the ruins of his choice......
I too was on the brink.... and his suicide is what drove me there.
Is that what my Dad wanted? NO!! He loved me greatly...through his own pain, he could not clearly see the pain he would leave behind. In my heart I know if he knew the hell he would inflict, he would have chosen differently. But that is the key, he was not rational, or it never would have been an option.....
It is painful, very painful, for me to talk about this.... again, it is one of those things people just can't not understand unless they have been through it...... but I thought it might be beneficial for those who are having these thoughts to hear from a survivor. I am here to tell you, more than one soul dies in a suicide.
Please, please… do not put your family through this hell. If you feel you can not hold on another moment for yourself, than please hold on for your family and loved ones. The saying " to the world you may be one person, but to one person.. you may be the world!" Is very true.............. I loved my father greatly, we were very close!!! That he "chose" to leave me, is a pain that cuts me to my very core. I will never be whole again.....
There is help, there are people who care!! But we can not help if we are not told how you are feeling!!! Talk talk talk, and then talk some more!! People love you greatly! "Life ain't always beautiful, but it's a beautiful ride"
acccccck............ this was very hard for me.... I need to retreat for a bit....... Love to you all! ((hugs))
a youtube video I made on the first anniversary....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5X9zcJA-y8&lc=sqtdJFy0Op0yzkGOhfgHxWuGSMEd250Ze6Ma8oSlKpM&feature=inbox
I am talking about cancer that is not treatable. And not everyone chooses to go thru the hell cancer treatment can cause - I would not.
Actually death has surrounded me my whole life. From beloved pets, friends growing up, family, and friends as an adult. My dad would purposely kill my pets in front of me, some died from accidents, cancer/disease, old age and yes - suicide (my paternal grandmother jumped off a bridge before I was born so maybe that is where it is rooted in me). I built up a wall early in life so maybe that is why with each death of someone I cared about it affected me less and less. I guess one could say I am detached from my feelings cause they can become overwhelming if I allow them out - I know cause I did it during counseling.
Nikki - I envy you having a close, loving family like you do. I think that is why I loved programs like 'Ozzie and Harriet; Leave it Beaver; Donna Reed, Little House on the Prairie, etc' - they were a life I did not have nor ever would have. You are definitely blessed to have that type of family.
Nikki, it has been 31 years since my father killed himself. I went through all the stages and then again in various orders and did a lot of work around it. It nearly ruined my life also. For awhile I felt great anger thAt he could leave me that it was selfish. Now that I have experienced the pain of the loss of family (the same family he had lost as my mother left him) and all the grief of AD, I feel so horrible that he was in the kind of pain I have been feeling.
I know that I am stronger than he was. But I no longer blame him for that. I wish he was here. I know he is the one member of my family who could understand and who would actually be willing to talk about our emotions. I wish I had understood that then but don't think I could have alleviated his pain. I do know that sometimes the pain is so great there are Jo thoughts but ending the pain. That is one of the reasons I would never allow a gun in the house. A moment of extreme pain and a gun....dangerous combination.
You are right that family members who care are forever changed. The pain becomes less intense on a daily basis but becomes part of you. It is not true that time heals all wounds. Time just makes it different.
Hugs to you Nikki. We are members of a club that has all too many members.
That said I agree with Charlotte in that all suicides are not the same and no one should be forced to stay alive and suffer. The unexpected suicide without earning or explanation sufficient to prevent the guilt and regret are very very difficult for the survivors and the reason I am still here today.
Terry, I wasn't going to look at this thread for a few days, but I saw you posted and wanted to "check" on you... I am glad I did. 31 years, you just gave me hope! It has been 3 years, but it feels like a life time!
I think the one difference is, I was already in the midst of Alzheimer's hell when my Dad took his life. So with that, and recent losses, and hell, just life....I already knew how painful life could be. Also I was diagnosed in 99 with a debilitating painful disease, another story for another day…. But I did fight suicidal thoughts for the first few years after diagnoses.
In all the talking I have done about suicide since his death, I have learned it is "normal" to have these thoughts. I have yet to meet one person who said they never had them. I think it is an "out" that we keep in the back of our minds.
When Dad died, I wanted nothing more than to go be with him..... but now that I KNEW the pain that would be left to those I loved, there was no way I could do it. And in truth, I was even angry at him for taking that “out” away from me. Even though I had come to terms with my disease, and had fought those suicidal thoughts... I had put it on the back burner as an option... for some day. Now it will never be an option. I could not do to my family what Dad has done to us.
So, when he took his life, it killed me to know he was in that kind of pain. I had anger, but it did not compare to the heartache I felt knowing how much pain he was in. He did not share, he did not talk to me. Which is hard for me to accept. We were so very close, we could talk about anything!! And ironically, it was my Dad who "talked me out of suicide" in 99. ...... He told me I HAD to hold on for him, yet.. he did not hold on for me..... He agreed to be Lynn's co-POA with me, he promised he would be here to help me through Lynn's loss....... accccck it is all so hard ....
So, forgive me, I will have to stop talking for a bit.... but I do want to say I do like the thought of assisted suicide. It is legal in some countries already. It would always hurt to lose a loved one... but with an "unexpected" suicide, there is no peace!! I think these countries have the right idea... if someone is terminal, or if they are set on taking their life... if it would be kinder to the person, as well as the family, if it could be done peaceful, and if there was a chance to say goodbye.
It is the whys, the what ifs, that are so haunting........
Dear Nikki, so much of you wrote has helped clarifiy my somewhat jumbled thoughts. I agree and I think that there is a comfort for me in knowing that there is an "out" even if I know down deep I would not take it. I can't let go of it. I think my shrink is right when he didn't seem freaked out about it but said it was an escapist fantasy for me. I am glad that I am not forced to give up this mental option. I used to have nightmares about being tortured and wished there was some "way out" of the torture like a magic pill implanted inside my mouth. Sometimes this life feels like torture, not just the AD although that is bad enough, but when the AD gets combined with all the additional traumas (and I have read yours and others here too and certainly know I am not alone) that it feels unbearable.
Also I think the suicidal thoughts came back strongest when I felt I had lost my family and I truly mean this as hard as it may be for those with loving families to believe, but I had come to feel that no one in my family would be very negatively impacted by my death. I always always thought even knowing my family and the Waltons had nothing in common that you always have your family when things get really bad. Things got really bad and the shock of my entire life was that that was when my family was not there. That experience - not AD - will always be the biggest pain of my life.
You are very strong and have hit with so much that your dad's death happened after the AD. We do seem to have much in common. My father killed himself not long after my husband's sudden death by heart attack and during a time when I was completely involved physically and financially in building a retail business. Wow. That's a pattern I now see being repeated! I lost a lot financially then as I "lost it" emotionally in many ways. I am losing a lot financially over the past few years also. My dad was 56 when he killed himself and his situation seemed to mirror mine in that he felt he couldn't go on without the love of my mother who was with my sister when he shot himself. How hard it must have been for him to see "family" like that close but unattainable. And then it felt exactly the same to me. But I know I have more resources than he did. I have doctors and medication, if not family support. I can write this here. I know I'm indulging in the longest rant of self pity and I feel indulgent. I hate that I have come to this. But for whoever is reading this and I have heard from some who say they do or have felt the same feelings, please know that expressing these feelings and then reading back over them is more therapeutic to me than any of the counseling I have had.
I hope you will email me sometime. I would love to connect with you. I am not up on your disease but I have so much trouble with the chronic pain I have from my fall in August of 2009 that I can't imagine how I could handle really severe untreatable pain.
Love to you Nikki and everyone thank you so much for hanging in there with me and others who are going through the depths right now and know we are going to get through this. Someone wrote somewhere: "The only way around the pain is THROUGH it." Doesn't that suck!
terry, I have been following your story very carefully and it is one I can relate to. I am an optimist and have never thought of suicide. I like knowing that the sun comes up every morning. But I have dealt with this many years. DH was diagnosed as non typical bipolar over 30 years ago. He never had the highs only the low periods. My oldest daughter has the highs and the lows cycling in an out. About 16 years ago she found herself in the bathroom with a razor about to slit her wrist and some how or other she came to her senses and called for help. She admitted herself to hospital and as she says saved her life. She still has problems at times but with medications she is doing well. Her son has overdosed with his medications 3 times and had to be hospitalized. He, too is doing better. In reading about your son I had this thought that he is scared to death about his health. With a father with alzs and you talking to him about how you feel he may not be able to handle the emotions. Does this make sense and does it make you understand his reactions?
Terry, you have a good heart ♥ You have helped me this day... and your words I will carry in my heart. It does help so much to know that there are people who truly do understand the emotions we are feeling.
I think you are spot on about your doctor. When Dad died, the shock was intense.... and my mind could think of nothing other than, I need to be with him. It wasn't a want, it was a need. Hard to explain. In fact I find I can't... I have tried several times and then erased my whole post........
The long and the short of it, I had a break down. And I remember my doctor saying to me, Nikki if you weren't depressed THEN I would be worried about you!!! And somehow that helped me . And he was right, faced with the constant loss of Lynn, my own physical pain, and then the sudden suicide of my Dad.. well who the hell wouldn't be depressed!!
So dear sweet Terry.... if walking in your shoes, I ask the same question... who the hell wouldn't be depressed!? The key my friend is not letting it consume you. If what you are trying isn't working, try something else! We have zero control of so many things in life, but we do have control over ourselves. I am not saying there is an easy fix, there isn't! But we can do things for ourselves to help us see and feel joy again. I am still trying to find my way, and I would be glad to hear from you, write me anytime! And I DO mean that. Sometimes, just talking, and having someone actually listen, is the best "therapy" there is.
Tie that knot and hang on.. and know if you feel like you are running out of rope, we are here to lend you ours. (( hugs! ))
Bama, that is a good point and one I was wanting to mention, but didn't know how. You did it wonderfully, and full of compassion as always! I know Lynn's kids are very afraid for themselves.......
Nikki, I have been worrying about Terry. What I posted about my DH, my daughter and my grandson was way out of my comfort zone. I have been dealing with depression in my family for over 30 years. I was talking to a friend whose brother had depression and he said something that got me to thinking about how hard it is to be depressed. He told his brother to pull himself up by his boot strings and the brother answered with what do you do when you don't have any boot strings. My DH would go into his depressed period and would want to sit in the dark, not talk to anyone not even the children, stopped reading the papers, and no TV. This would last from 2 to 6 weeks and he would get up one morning back to normal. This happened when he got worried about some problem and he just shut down. As my DH always said nobody knows what it feels like unless you have been there. I do know how it feels to watch your husband, your daughter, and your grandson cope with this and you are helpless to make everything better.
Thanks Bama. I hear what you are saying. With regard to my son though, no I don't think he is reacting to hearing about my feelings and fear of AD from his father. My DH is not his biological father, has raised him since he was 5 and is his adopted father, but no fear of inherited AD. And I almost never talk with him about my feelings because as I said in the other thread, he isn't available to that and have never wanted to burden him with my life anyway. Charlotte, Mimi and others have helped me see that this is his problem, this lack of empathy. I've been rationalizing it, trying to fix it, and suffering from it for 20 years or since since he was a teenager. My big step forward as of late is dropping him from the equation in making life choices.
It must have been so difficult for you to be surrounded by depressed people. I am lucky that DH is not depressed as I pick up other peoples' moods so easily when he is down I feel more down.
One thing I know is that I am strong enough to get through an awful lot.
((((((HUGS))))) Terry, my daughter and grandson are doing well right now for which I am thankful. It does change the picture when you told me that your husband is not his biological father. Wishing you peace, a house that sells quickly, and a wonderful visit with your mother and sister.