Last night my husband and 16 y.o son got into a physical fight. They were away from home and it started over my son not being able to practice with his band because there were no parents home at the place they wanted to practice.
My husband's story and my son's story are vastly different. DH states DS hit him first. DS states that did not happen. The long and short of it is that DH kicked DS in the crotch, shin and hit him at least twice with a closed fist on the face. DS had to run and hide in the bushes to call me.
DS has scratches to the face and a bruised shin. Luckily the kick to the privates missed the "family jewels". There is not a mark on DH.
I am devastated, furious, scared and sad. I am sure the truth lies somewhere between the two versions. Told DH that I was going to leave. DS is at friends house. I am making plans to send him and my daughter to my parents house while I sort this out.
My first priority is protecting my children. But I am sooooo sad at the thought of leaving this man when he is ill. But I have to protect my babies, and myself. And I can't take more of the emotional rollercoaster we are on.
Kirsty, please know we are thinking of you during this stressful time. I agree your children must come first. this behaviour could be a cronic issue esp if things dont go his way. i know how it feels, my DH and his only son went to blows at EASTER dinner! many yrs ago with all the tiny grandchildren looking on. my DH told one of the children to not aggravate his little dog and the son heard him and told his dad if he EVER touched his kid he would kill him..well that was all it took, DH drew his fist and they were all over each other and my poor 89YR old dad, (RIP) was in the midst of them trying to separate them. i didnt allow my stepson to see his dad almost 2yrs+ til he took anger mgmt and educated himself on AD and aggression. today he sees his dad but i always leave with Dh if things start to conflict or escalalate. there is no excuse for violence and certainly with your husband is his mental state it cant be certain when/if it happens again. please do whats best for you and the kids asap. so sorry you are going thru this pain, Divvi
Sending you love & light. I wouldn't make any knee jerk reactions. You kept saying you were going to leave. Seems the children would be better off staying in their own environment & it is time for your DH to leave. I would document the injuries to your son with photos. See someone in a child protective agency? Call the Alzheimer's support hotline for suggestions. You are in a tough situation. My heart goes out to you. Yes, the children need to be protected as a first priority, and you too may be in harm's way. I think the truth probably lies with your son. Your husband probably became irritated, acted on it, and doesn't recall the truth. I have found the truth or reality is lost in an AD mind.
Everyone needs a plan B in case his or her spouse becomes physically abusive.
Hard. I've often wondered if there would be a time or situation in which a still-somewhat-functional AD person might need to be invited to move into another place for reasons of this sort, and how you would go about doing it. This, I suppose, is the type of situation.
I guess you'd present the situation to the ill spouse somewhat like this: "It isn't working out to be safe for you and __________ to live in the same place, and the kids still must have one parent with them, so for everyone's good, we need to have you live [wherever.]"
Then, you'd have to make sure the AD person's needs were being met. I dunno. Let us know how things are going. These situations are so complicated.
Kirsty-can you have a chat with the head of the seminary housing. If your husband is a minister he could do violence to someone seeking help, violating a big trust. Can you stay on until you find a safe place. Does your husband need a psych eval and can the police help get one. So sorry, bluedaze
O.K. got it. Can you go to some official in the seminary & explain the situation, perhaps they will provide you with separate housing? Seems they would have a heart for this type of thing. & I'd make it clear it is an emergency. Just a thought.
Maybe you are afraid to reveal your husband's problem to his higher ups? Right now he has a job, and what if they found out? Is that what is rolling around in your head?
Hi all, Hubby is in school to become a presbyterian pastor...though not sure he is going to be able to finish. He has finished (barely) two of the four years.
I could discuss this with them, but it would definitely be a difficulty for hubby.
I just don't know what to do other than rent our own place and move out. But, rentals in Marin county are outrageously expensive and, because I have been the soul breadwinner for nearly our whole marriage, I know that I am going to have to pay to support hubby as well...such a mess.
You don't know that you will have to pay to support your husband. You need legal advice, just as I did. Going to see an attorney this week. I have always earned more than my husband. I would find (like I did) an attorney who will give you a free consultation. He or she will advise you whether or not to let on to the seminary. It may be in your best interest not to disclose it to them at this time. Only an attorney can guide you now. It was with the help of this group that I finally made the step to contact an attorney. I thought I had YEARS to deal with this. I can see it getting worse every day. Only through this site was I able to make it through the maze of the mess. You are on a journey, but you are not alone. Ask questions, you will receive an answer.
Kirsty, In a previous thread you also mentioned you DH being very angry, and so many of us have experienced the anger and rage on some level. Assuming it is from a disease process, you have to focus on the illness causing certain behaviors. No, you shouldn't deal with physical abuse (as we talked on another thread). But, there are a lot of medications that can help with this (and other) unacceptable behaviors.
I can certainly appreciate your problems with the housing situation, but you need to focus on other issues now. You and the kids need to be safe. Your husband needs help. Regardless of the cause, he needs help. One of the hardest things with AD, (I realize your diagnosis is MCI at the moment) is that our spouse is usually at a different point in the disease than we realized. With that comes the need to take some action IMMEDIATELY. Whether we can afford it or not. Whether we want to or not. Whether we know how to do what we need to or not.
The Alzheimer's Assoc and this website are excellent resources at those times when action is needed.
I believe the current situation, both the seminary school and housing are going to have to change, and sooner rather than later. The last thing you can afford now and in the immediate future is concern over whether he can continue school or whether you would cause any waves if you talk to the powers that be at school.
No doubt, your husband needs medical help. Your son needs counseling. You need to decide if you are sticking around in this marriage. DH needs further medical evaluation now. With what I know of this disease and your descriptions of your husbands actions, not only with this fight, but the other things you describe, you are way past MCI. The best course of action after determining your son was physically ok should be a 911 call, asking for an escort to the hospital.
I am so sorry you are dealing with this stuff, especially at such a young age. And please know there will be support here, regardless of what you decide to do. My DH and I are both 57, we have an adult son living with us, and I am not working. It is so difficult, and it only gets worse. Dealing with this with young kids, and a job just seems so difficult. It is no surprise you are having trouble concentrating at work!
I just got off the phone with DH. I was in tears. He totally blames the confrontation on our son and states that it is no different than the other times DS has become violent. Our boy has had several instances of being out of control...behaviour that I believe stem from problems at home that can be traced to issues with the MCI/ALZ. Forgive me for being so vague...it would take a novel to explain it all.
Anyway, our son has responded beautifully to counseling and to me taking the reigns in most of the discipline issues (I admit, I have had to do a lot of finagaling (sp?) and "go arounds" to try to avoid confrontations with DH. Something that has been very uncomfortable for me to do as I always wanted to and believed in parenting with my spouse.
Anyway, I told DH that I wanted to take the kids to Colorado, just for a visit, so that I could get some distance and perspective on everything. We were planning a trip for mid-july anyway. DH was going to take at least 3 weeks to go on a road trip by himself. So I figured no problem, right? Wrong! He pretty much told me that my 16 yo and i could go but that he didn't think that the atmosphere would be good for my 7 year old...this coming from the guy that was ok leaving out 7 year old there for three weeks without mommy and daddy so that he could take his road trip!
I know, I know, I'm not dealing with someone with good reasoning skills.
You might want to have the violence on record with the police. In my one violent episode I called the police in, and in retrospect it was a good idea. If nothing else, if something bad had happened to me, they would know what was going on. And if I need to have the police find him when he gets into a wandering stage, they already know he has dementia.
A couple of weeks later the policeman called back to make sure I was OK, and also to tell me that he had filed a report with the Assistant District Attorney who specializes in domestic violence. She called me a few days later, and surprised me with how much she knew about demetia.
In any case I ended up with her name, phone number, and a request that I call her if I needed help.
I think you may need all of that too.
You absolutely need to get your children out of harm's way. Even the older one is too young to take care of himself in this situation.
I am living in your world every day. My husband SCREAMED at me tonight. He was always a gentleman. Never raised his voice. I had to physically leave the house & go for a walk. I came back & told him not to ever, ever scream at me again. He said he never screamed at me. O.K. is your memory so poor you can't remember what you did 15 minutes ago? (I asked silently.) This is nothing to play around with. I am going to have to make plans in the event this escalates. I told him I was going to buy a tape recorder to prove it to him.
I feel so deeply for what you are going through with 2 children. At least I only have myself & my cat to worry about. I even worry about my cat. She was obviously upset by all the drama, screaming. I have a son by a previous marriage, and he has always been my #1 priority. Fortunately, he turned out o.k., is a computer systems engineer & travels the globe. (Gee, I can remember when I traveled all over.)
Yes, his reasoning skills are poor. We can either stay in denial or take action. It is NOT going to get better. I went to a therapist for the first time in my life last year, (considering I AM one) and she said, obviously, your husband is not functional. It was a relief to hear someone say that. I only went for 2 sessions, but it really helped to get the feedback.
I hope & pray you can get yourself together enough to take steps. Please keep us posted.
My prayers are with you Kirsty. I hope it all works out. My DH would throw himself on the floor and through some big fits, he didn't hit me but I was scared to death that he would get a heart attack during those fits. I told his doctor and he put him on Risperdol, thank God that stopped his fits. Maybe if you talk to his doctor he could prescribe something to calm him down. But please put yourself out of danger untill you know it is save to stay with him. You and your kids come first. Remember that.
I think you should definately go to Colorado by yourself with both kids. you should not leave the 7yr old where there is contact with DH while you are gone. seems he is wanting to make sure you will come back by keeping the 7yr old away from you? they CAN be quite coniving and devious even with AD. and its a good idea to document with some legal authority the scene with your son. you should see an atty asap and tell them of whats happening and they will advise you what legal actions to take. maybe even a legal separation at this point would not be bad til your husband has a full evaluation workup. he is young so maybe would get disability and you woulnt have to provide support? it is so hard when kids are involved. i am hoping you get some counsel soon. divvi
I will be thinking of you. I am so sorry that you have to go through this with young children. I agree with Divvi that you should take your 7 year old too.
My heart goes out to you. I sometimes say that our oldest is 10 going on 16. He can be very difficult and he and I have our go arounds. He and DH are really like oil and water. I shudder when I think of DS being a teenager. On the one hand, I'll likely be handling it on my own without any help from DH. On the other hand, the disease seems to be "mellowing" DH as it progresses (not the greatest way to get mellowed), so I suppose by then his and DS's go arounds probably won't be an issue. In any case, this especially stinks with young kids.
I wish I had advice. I'm sending hugs your way. Hang in there.
My heart and prayers are with you and your children. However let me say that your responsiblity is to your children not your DH. Talk to the Presbyterians, take the children today and leave. Do not tell him where you are going but let the Presbyterians know that you are ok but why you are leaving. If you must call a battered women line there are plenty of them in Marin county they will help you with anything you need. Why live in Marin?? it is very high rent and you are going to need the money for other essentials even if you stay with DH. Please, leave today do not become a statistic. I was in law enforcement for 25 years believe me once this behavior starts it will get worse. better to take the first action before some well meaning neighbor or teacher or coach calls the law on him and you lose your kids temporarily for not reporting this. The church will take of your DH and will get him the counseling he needs.
I believe she lives in seminary housing now, which is probably not that expensive. Also her current job is probably in that area. I think her DH needs a lot more than counseling. How do you counsel someone with dementia of any type? I'm sure her head is spinning right now. I agree, her 1st responsibility is to the children (and herself.)
Val, yes but that seminary housing is in jeopardy. without anger management counseling DH is going to get "put out" and when they find out about the AD he is going to get "put out" sooooo she needs to make a move NOW to protect her children. Not all agression and mean behaviour is a direct result of AD. It will be hard to repair the relationship with her son if she does not do something now. Believe me the church running the seminary will take care of the husband!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think anger management classes can prevent any demetia person from getting angry. They just do. But maybe you're right, I don't know. I've seen it in my husband, who NEVER lost his temper in the past. That was one of the things that drew me to him, his calm demeanor. I don't think anger management would make a dent in him now. But I hope you're right, I hope the church will take care of her husband. I hope someone will take care of her, her children, most of all.
Hi Everyone, Thanks so much for all your advice, hugs and support. It has meant a lot.
Yesterday, DH and I went to talk with a psychologist who has been working with our son. The psychologist backed me up on the following: 1) DH should not have handled the situation with our son in the way he did. 2) It's a great idea for me and the kids to go to Colorado to put some distance between he and I, and he and our son.
The counselor stated that the stress level in our family has reached a breaking point and that we must take this step.
DH was very shaken that the counselor agreed that he he should not have become physical in the way he did. He kept saying "Even though he started it?".
Afterward, by the car, he became very tearful and said "I am a good father. I love my kids". To which I said "I know you are. But our family is suffering greatly and we have to do something now to create a buffer zone, so that we can think clearly about the next steps to take".
He said "Well, I am going out for the evening so that you don't have to be around me". He stayed out until about 10:30 and when he came back in he said "I just have one thing to say about all of this. I may have a bad relationship with my son but I have a wonderful relationship with my daughter. I need a few days to think about this before we make plans for you guys to go to Colorado. If you are gone for two weeks, that's two weeks without me seeing her, or kissing her goodnight. And if we are separating, then I will be a separated parent." He was sobbing at this point.
It was so tragic. So sad. I told him that my heart was breaking too. And that I know he loves his kids. He said he knows that this is hard on me.
I have been advised to just take the kids, without him knowing it. But I know my husband and he has been known to take "tit-for-tat" action. I am so scared that if I make this precedent, that I will come home one day from work and he will have taken of with my daughter. I feel like I am navigating a mine field and having to look several moves ahead.
One thing I know for certain...My daughter is in no danger from my DH.
Oh God. How do you know if you are making the right choices in such a major, major life decision?
I will contact an attorney. And I will keep you all posted.
It is so hard to know that I am breaking the heart of a man who is facing a slow, horrible death. But I know that my first responsibility is to my children. I am so pissed off that I am forced to choose by this damn disease!
Do what you have to do. No one is going to judge you or pass judgement on you . you know your DH and you know what he is capable of. Not all of this is attributed to the AD, right? I think that the therapist is correct, you need to do this NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I said before there are lots of support groups in your county that will assist you in getting out of town ASAP!!!!!!!!!!! God speed to you and keep us posted of how you and the kids are doing... In my prayers, Phyllis
Doesn't sound like a good idea to just take the kids without him knowing it. Not if you expect repercusions. I think I would just be firm about you are acting on the therapist's advice. You could tell him you will have your daughter call him while away.
I think we know if we are making the right decisions in our gut. You've recieved a lot of feedback on the situation, and if it rings true, which only you can know, then go with it. Wish there were a magic button you could push to make this go away, but there's not. It just gets worse, and that's the reality.
Will you be able to afford living on your own with the children? Sounds like he's not contributing anything by being a student, except the reduced housing cost. You haven't said if the seminary housing is free or very reduced. Is he paying for this education? Is there a student loan out there?
At some point you will have to address the issue of supervised visitation. Might want to bounce that off the attorney now.
Kirsty, I think Val has a valid point-you can't counsel a person with dementia to act reasonably. Yes, protect your kids.
What help is your husband getting beyond the counseling session? He needs further evaluation by a doctor and meds to manage the uncontrollable actions. He is not a person making bad decisions, but probably a sick person who is doing the best he can. Does he have any family? Can the seminary provide any support for him?
If your husband has dementia he is not going to be able to finish his schooling or anything. As Val at PatB say, you need to take care of yourself and the kids first. I know how hard this is, but you need to make the changes now. You can't argue, you can't negotiate, you can't convince or explain to, or counsel a person with dementia.
The only way to deal w. the violent behavior is with medication. Our long hard path is to separate from these people we love so much and learn to love them in a different detached sort of way.