Yesterday was my DH's birthday, and when we got home from going out for dinner to celebrate, the phone rang. It was my FIL calling to wish his son a happy b-day...Since I had answered the phone, I had the good fortune(?) to chat w/ him first...so was asked the usual questions about how George is doing (which I can't usually be truthful about because George is usually within hearing distance). Then he started on another topic which he often discusses which is how he is still praying for a miracle that God will cure him of this illness, and how you just have to believe, and God can make it happen; he also said "some people don't share my enthusiasm for this, but I believe it can happen." I guess last night was just not the right time for me to hear this..again...I didn't say much tho, just politely agreed with him. I kept thinking about his comments after we went to bed, and it took me awhile to relax and fall asleep, and I'm thinking about it again this a.m. I am a good Christian woman, and a nurse, and have seen and heard of miracles in my life time, but really? Does my DH still have AD because I don't pray enough, or someone out there doesn't really believe? And how can this illness suddenly be reversed and a person "recover"?
We live in an imperfect world and stuff happens that is out of our control. I know that Joan does not want this kind of discussion on her board. Perhaps it could be moved to Face Book where there is a group from here and carry it on there
Bella, I have asked myself the same questions and didn't get any answers until my husband died earlier this month. And then I saw that there had been surprising miracles, not the kind I could have prayed for, not a sudden miraculous cure. The biggest miracle was my husband regaining much of his ability to talk and interact with everyone after his Aricept was discontinued. The second miracle was a care aide I hired who was a doctor from Russia,not practicing medicine in Canada. She was warm, caring, capable, and went out on a limb to get the best care from the nursing staff and doctor for DH. Third miracle: my husband's ex-wife and their children seemed to be touched by the funeral Mass and the priest's homily, and they told people at the reception that they had felt accepted and welcomed by everyone.
Hope I am not stepping on any toes here. I have several post it notes on the computer. One says
God answers our prayers in His time...not ours.
Like Mary says, she saw the miracles, not in the way she would have wanted, but in the way they needed to be.
Faith is a hard one. I learn every day.....
Bella,your FIL is praying for his son. Just like any parent would for their child, no matter how old they are. Don't be mad at him, he does not do this to hurt you. I'm sure it is all he knows to do.
and we've read this on so many plaques....and in poems, and similar words have been written in songs we love. What is so hard to remember every day is that everyone will die...unfortunately not according to OUR OWN plan and timetable,..but someone else who decided the date long ago. I love these words.
To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
and it is not up to us to determine the exact times for any of those things.......
Thank you everyone for your responses..I realize that my FIL is praying for his son, and IS at a loss for what to do...I'm sure he feels very helpless. I didn't mean to sound so harsh with my ranting; guess I was just feeling sorry about everything and was in a down mood yesterday. Actually, there have been some miracles in our lives too...an old friend has re-connected w/ my DH and has been spending time w/ him, taking him to breakfast once in a while and taking him to the gym to work out 2 days/week; also my SIL who was in a major denial about what was happening to her brother has "come around" and been very supportive to him and me. So...tho our prayers have not brought the miracle of a cure, they have been given some very positive answers; and I am very grateful for that.
Mary75 and bella as you've mentioned the miracles aren't always what we think is best or what we want at the time, but there is One who knows what's best for us and His time.
Bella- back in 1987 when my FIL was diagnosed with AD and due to family history we had him anointed, hands laid on and prayers for the generational curse to be broken. I believed with all my heart he would not fall victim to this horrible disease keeping faith that God had healed him. In fact, it was believing that is why I waited for 2 years before opening my eyes to what was going on and then demanded he go to the doctor. I do not believe it was a lack of faith on my part or my husband's. It was God's choice - he did not cause it but allowed it. Why? I have no idea. I also have people who are blaming us for not having enough faith, but that is not the truth. Like your FIL they want us to go to faith healers. As the post Nancy posted above from Ecclesiastics, there is a time for everything. There are stories in the Bible of people that believed but were not healed. Paul is one of the most prominent that was not healed of his affliction - which according to the Bible was not due to lack of believing.
It is what it is. Please do not let your FIL make you feel guilty. I don't care whether it is the Christian God, or any other thing one believes in - it is what it is. Not long ago I was reading the story of a neurologist who in an effort to avoid AD like his father read everything he could on the disease. Every study that suggested a supplement,, food or exercise to do to avoid it - he did. When he was diagnosed with AD, he was taking something like 90-120 pills a day and ate one of the most natural and considered healthiest diet one could have.
Did this doctor lack faith? No, he believed with all his heart and mind that what he was doing would prevent him from falling victim to AD.
It is what it is. Do not beat yourself up but believe, that like mentioned above, there will be miracles along the way. Things will happen that will strengthen us, will show us where we need improvement, etc. I remember being told that the best way to see your faults is to have children - how true that is. I hate having to go through this, and it is harder when you had a bad marriage, but we all have to have faith in whatever our belief system is that we will make it through. When we come out on the other side we will be a different person - different from what we were going into this disease and with a different outlook on life, stronger and who knows what else.
Oh my gosh! Thank you everyone for all the wonderful words of comfort. I truly believe everything that everyone has written. It’s comforting to know I’m not alone!
It truly is comforting to know that we are not alone in our feelings, beliefs and fears regarding this horrible disease, and it IS horrible! I want to thank all of you again for your encouragement and support. Moorsb, I am not sure why you feel Joan wouldn't want such a discussion on her board?
Quoted from the sticky on Board Guide lines Religious and Political Discussions - Everyone of any faith or no faith is welcome on these boards to discuss their struggles with their spouses' Alzheimer's Disease. However, this is not the place to discuss, persuade, or influence anyone concerning one's private, personal, political or religious beliefs. These types of discussions are ripe for misunderstandings and offending those who do not agree with you. If you wish to discuss at length your politcal or religious beliefs, there are countless forums on the Internet that will meet your need. The Alzheimer Spouse website is NOT a place for these discussions and will not host them under any circumstances.
To those who are wondering about the policy on religious discussions on these boards, moorsb quoted the policy correctly from the guidelines. I think the policy and the reasons behind it are very clear. I respect everyone's right to their own particular religious beliefs, but this is not the place for religious discussions.
I am not Facebook savvy, and use it only for business, but there is a group from this website on there. The Alzheimer Spouse Group. You certainly are welcome to talk religion there. You would need to get in touch with 'briegull' to find out how to join it. I believe she is the one who started it.
IMO - this has not been a religious discussion in the sense there is not trying to convince someone to change their beliefs. Bella was expressing a difficulty SHE was having related to AD and her faith. I have read thru every post and do not see any that are trying to convince anyone to take their viewpoint. In everyone, faith whether it be in religion, diet, nature, doctors, a rock, or anything else that their belief system is based on, is very integral in emotionally dealing with this horrid disease. I find it interesting that people here can post secular beliefs and that is alright. No one is ever condemned or slapped on their wrist for expressing their secular beliefs, but try one based on religion of any kind (although athesist/secular is a religion of type) and your are told they are invalid to how you deal with this disease. Something is wrong with this picture.
I'm with Charlotte. Each of us has to be able to express our feelings about this horrible disease and how it is affecting us. Part of that will be based on our religious (or lack thereof) beliefs. It should be just as acceptible to discuss how our faith has helped or hurt us, just as we discuss how certain medicines or councellors have helped or hurt. I don't see anything is this discussion that is trying to influence someone else to a person's specific belief. Most, but not all, of us have some religious background and belief. Probably a majority of us are Christian, although I'm not sure of that. In an earlier post Charlotte mentioned having her FIL "annointed". This is not something done in my tradition, but I fully appreciate how it could give her some consolation and am happy for her that it was done. When I was in active practice of medicine I tried to include the patients minister, priest, rabbi, etc. in the healing process. I hope we will be able to discuss all aspects of how this disease affects us, including what it is doing to our faith.
Since Joan has set this up for us I would assume it is her right to limit discussions. I agree with Charlotte and Marsh that no one is trying to proselytize here only to express how they feel regarding how it affects their loved ones and themselves. Maybe there should be a place where we can discuss these things without being judged. Any thoughts beside FB?
Praying for someone or saying "God bless you" is not trying to change anyone's beliefs. So, I don't feel like that comes under a religious discussion. Correct me if I am wrong because I like to follow the rules but at the same time I know I feel better when I know prayers are being sent up above for me.
For those who were not around when I explained the policy:
1. Praying for someone, saying "God Bless You", sending prayers your way, etc. etc. etc. is NOT, as Bama says, trying to change anyone's beliefs, and it is NOT a problem.
2. What is a problem, and what prompted me to take religious discussions off of the boards is that people were "preaching" their own religion, and offending others who did not believe as they did. I cannot and will not have anyone telling or implying to others that they are inferior or will go to Hell if they do not embrace the writer's beliefs. And that WAS happening a couple of years ago, before I stopped it.
3. I firmly respect EVERYONE'S right to believe or NOT believe whatever they want, but this is NOT the place to discuss it. No matter what, someone ALWAYS gets offended, insulted, or feels 'judged', and I end up having to referee and close discussions.
4. As for this particular discussion, I let it continue, because it did not seem preachy, but people got offended anyway just by the mention of my policy on religious discussions.
This entire situation is just rediculous. People can discuss coconut oil, which makes my gag reflexes work overtime..and that is offensive to me. We cannot have this type of discussion because ...because we just can't.
GuitarGuy, when my mother was in the last stages of colon cancer, I heard many different types of comments. Some were religion based, and others were streight from the heart. I was the local child and assited my stepfather in many day-to-day duties, including doctor appts, etc. Although I fought my own feelings to try and understand their feelings, I found myself getting angry a lot. One sister told me that she was waiting for Christmas to fly home to see mom. I told her that she had two choices, flying home now or flying home for mom's funeral. She flew "now" and had a nice last visit. The funeral was in early-December. Twice, I was talked to about miracle treatments.
My point is that some family who do not live close or who chose not to be involved sometimes say and do things that can really "tick off" those of us who live it every day. I agree that they could help.
Thanks, Joan, for giving us a non-judging place to vent, and also to get really good, hands-on advice.
Yes they do say things "tick us off". But a phone call to say "hello I love and hope to see you soon", would be a good thing.
And that's the only miracle I can hope for at this point.
Families who are not aware of what is going on, can make all kinds of statements, and yes they are critical. Unless they take some interest, how can they complain when one day, the situation is beyond the ability of the caregiver to cope. They don't understand it, because they do not live it. They should at lease care enough to be interested. Many times they are not. So as far as miracles go, I have very little hope of seeing one. But I do have a little hope.
Yes, we must all continue to have hope that we may see or hear of a miracle, (be it a cure or new treatment, or a very supportive, helpful friend/family member); and that could occur if you've got religion, or no religion. I agree with most of you including Joan that this has not been an offensive or "preachy" discussion; and I do believe I have found a great deal of comfort from all of your experiences and opinions on this matter.
This doesn't remind me at all of that time my friend ran that ad in the paper and got all those phone calls.
The ad read, "Large queens. Very fine. Price negotiable."
The real problem was that the paper ran that in the personal section. It was supposed to go in the hobby section. Large Queens are the large size Canadian Queen Victoria stamps from the 19th century. Very fine is one of the grades that stamps are assessed in.
My friend was trolling to see if he could find someone interested in buying some of the valuable stamps he had doubles of and would be willing to sell if the price were right.
What THAT reminds me of is that time I went into that great restaurant in LA and marvelled at how friendly everybody was. I had heard stories that you have to watch yourself and I was just starting to travel on business. The next day at the meeting I mentioned this great restaurant and after a moment's silence where it was clear something was amiss - it was pointed out to me that those people weren't just cheerful - they were quite gay. I felt stupid but the truth was I had a good time and nobody had said or done anything untoward. My nephew is equally cheerful. I told him that story. I also make sure he knows I love him. People are people.
And THAT reminds me of Don Rickles when I was a kid. My parents laughed and laughed at the black and white screen but I got mad and yelled. "That's not funny!" I yelled and my parents realized I was upset and explained to me that he's funny because he insults absolutely everyone so in a way he isn't insulting anyone. Good schtick I guess offending everyone for a living and becoming famous for it. On rare occassion he still appears on TV although thank god, not on that shoppers channel with Joan Rivers the statue. I saw him on a UTube video not long ago and smiling to myself said, "You're still not funny."
I'll tell you what's really not funny. My Sikh friend. Actually he's really funny. What's not is that way too many people are rude to him. He's not actually Sikh. His parents are. He doesn't wear the pull start. His parents are upset with him that he's drifted from the religion and I feel for him because my parents were upset I didn't marry a German girl like Broomhilde or some other Wagnerian Viking. So I get it. But the point is people are rude to him because they're angry at Moslems. Except they can't tell a Moslem from the broad side of a barn door. An Indian person I know suffers from this too. This is in Canada where I worked downtown at King and Bay which is the smaller version of Wall Street up here. What do these yahoo's think? What are the terrorists going to do up here? Chop down some trees??
The issue I have is that, while I make complete sense, everyone else is so incredibly weird. It's like that old Groucho Marx gag: "Doctor. Doctor. It hurt's when I do this." "Well, don't do that." "That's so rude! I want a second opinion." "Allright, your ugly too."
........
Technically I can see moorb's point. Joan has ruled on this. Her ruling is that differences in philosophies and politics can become contentcious. She is right. A spiritual interpretation without regard for any particular philosophy would be to translate the idiom and that might sound like this:
No Bella, it's not your fault. As moorsb said things happen that are beyond our control.
While three of those stories above are true, I made one of them up.
What I am not making up is that I consider myself to have a giant brain (do that into the airbag please) and I have something to say.
This board which means the people on it are a glorious example of people at their best which should be food for the soul for everyone who has the wit so see that while television makes money showing what a mess the world is in - the evidence of humanity displayed here under duress suggests it is not.
Wolf, you are a son of a gun (old southern saying) but you are wonderful....and I am so glad you are posting on this site because you make me laugh and that is a very good thing.
I would like to share 2 medical miracles that I have witnessed in my life. Having experienced them, it is impossible for me not to believe that an Alzheimer’s cure can come at any moment.
The first was when my middle son was 3. My perfectly healthy, beautiful little boy started to experience fever and joint pain – severe joint pain. One day the pain would be in his knees, the next day he would wake up and it would be in his hips, the next his ankles. The pain would travel like this; so did the fever – there one minute, gone the next. Most days he could not walk. As you can imagine, we were devastated watching our son in pain; our entire church congregation was praying for our son, and I am sure, by extension, many people beyond. My son was tested for every possible cause of the symptoms. His blood tests indicated there was a real problem (an elevated sed rate), but all tests for specific causes – Lyme disease, rheumatic fever, etc. – were negative. This went on for weeks before we were referred to a specialist; we were lucky to have one of the tops in his field right here in Fairfax. He performed more tests and called us into his office to give us the results. Our son was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. We were in such shock I don’t even remember everything he said, but he gave us a glossy brochure explaining the disease, and told us our son would suffer from this the rest of his life. Schedule a follow-up, and call me if you have any questions. We returned home and my son was happily playing with the sitter. He never experienced another joint pain; his illness was gone. Praise be to God!
The second miracle was when my sister was dying of breast cancer. She was at death’s door; actually she was on the other side of the door, just peeking back through. Family flew to her bedside though she was unconscious – already gone. I have never seen a body in such physically bad shape, her liver was shutting down, so she was jaundice. The chemo had caused incredible mouth sores – I can’t even describe how awful. Her limbs were swollen. Anyone walking into her room would immediately weep, because it took just one look to know she had to be suffering immensely. I know most of my family was praying, “God please take her and end her suffering.” I spent the night with her; her family went home to get some much needed rest. I prayed for as long as I could sit up. But I prayed that God would heal her. Very early that morning a specialist came in. He immediately identified the drug that was destroying her liver (something given to combat the mouth sores). Under this doctor’s care, my sister rallied. She recovered to a point that she lived one more year, was able to visit her home on the east coast – the shore she loved so well. And we all enjoyed a quality visit with my sister and got the chance to really say good-bye. Again, praise be to God!
Watch a YouTube video about the size of the universe. It helps to put things in perspective. A God who created all of that, and yet knows each of us so intimately, he knows us better than we know ourselves, can easily give us our miracle.
Thanks, Wolf, and all. We can come from many "corners" and still uplift each others' spirits w/friendship and information and humor that can help us on our journey.
You are all wonderful people...I am thankful to have found this site! Wolf, you have a most unique sense of humor...thanks for making me laugh. And mary22033..your miracles are inspiring to me. I guess when I began this topic, I sounded rather harsh in regards to what my FIL was saying to me about the power of prayer...the truth is, I do believe in this power, and in miracles...but for some reason I just did not want to hear this from him again. I think because I am living this reality with my DH on a daily basis, and it can become so tedious and hopeless, with no end in sight...and I just feel so sad and sorry for myself and him...well, you all know what I mean...maybe that night when my FIL called, I just did not want to talk about it!
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I would like to put my 2 cents worth in on the subject. Right now my faith is what I lean on to keep going. Some of you are taking ant-depressants to get through (& I will probably end up doing so too), but while you tell us about it, & suggest it might help us, I’ve never heard anyone try to force the issue on anyone. It’s part of your journey & I respect that. Just like I said, my faith is part of my journey, & while I will never force the issue I may need to talk about it & I hope that I can be respected for that.
I believe as long as what you say is kept in the first person, otherwise what you feel and experience, there should be no problem. Sharing miracles, sharing overcoming when people badger you with 'if you only believed more', if you would exercise more, eat better, etc. is great. Staying in 'I' keeps it to your feelings, struggles, and battles. Then others can also share the "I' of how they have also battled with the same and share how they have overcome.
In years past when I was challenged that my faith or belief was not strong enough I would go into depression. In this case I believed but for me and hb it was not God's will. He has a reason for us to go this path - I just do not understand yet.
We all are finding this journey changes us. Maybe it will change me to a woman that a man will really love - love me for me, not how I look or how good of a 'mother' I am to him. (remember men are just big boys)
Been reading about the Religion situation ever since I have been a member of this site and I think we owe it to Joan to respect her wishes. Just like Politics - Religiion has a "fine line" and can get out of hand quite quickly. I have owned businesses most of my life and in most instances I set boundaries and now I also have a on-line support group and I expect certain boundaries there also. My feelings are that whoever controls the business or web-site should have the ability to set those boundaries and I try and abide by them. If I belong to a group where I don't like the "boundaries", I excuse myself from the group. There are pretty much no boundaries on Facebook and many other Internet Sites where you can express your feelings regarding these subjects. Just my two cents....