Im seeing an attorney tomorrow to ask questions about finances and alzheimers, I could use some help on questions to ak if any of you have been thru this!
ky caregiver, i believe joan has a whole topic on this elder atty matter on her homepage at alzheimerspouse.com go to the homepage and scroll down on the left side lots of info. there are some topics here too about it but i think shes put most important info on that page. yo may want to check it out.
Yes, it is on the left side, and it is titled "Financial Information". The best resource in there is the one that says FINANCIAL STEPS FOR CAREGIVERS - A COMPLETE GUIDE.
I have also brought to the top of this message board one of the discussions on what to ask an elder law attorney.
Don't be mis-led if they tell you that an IRA which is owned by the Nursing Home spouse is not counted with Medicaid if it produces a monthly income stream, the principal is not counted but the income will be and then at the end the State can take the rest of the IRA up to the amount they have paid for care. So not being counted simply put means that it is not counted against you as far as qualifying but yet they get all back in the end.
I'm also located in KY and am currently working with an attorney. From what I have learned so far KY rules are somewhat different from what I have read here. For example, you don't have to worry about your house regardlress if its jointly owned, any income you earn is consided seperate, joint savings/IRA's are split in half, you can keep 1 vehicle. To name just a few.
Good luck!
Wish getting a POA was as simple, I'm still waiting on the Jury Trial to determine that my DW needs a gaurdian.
You are right that there are variations from state to state, but the issues of keeping a house, car, splitting savings/ira's up to a point, etc. are based on Federal law and apply everywhere. I believe it is called the Spousal Impoverishment Act.
I believe that the spouse can keep the house but if the spouse dies Medicaid can claim their money. The best thing to do is go to an Elder Law Attorney in your home state.
THANK yOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT! AALFERIO GOOD LUCK, I HAD THE FORESIGHT TO GET POA 2 YRS AGO, I CONVINCED MY HUSBAND BY LETTING HIM HAVE POA OF ME ALSO, BECAUSE HE DENIED ANYTHING WS WRONG WITH HIM. NOW HE HAS FORGOTTEN!
aalferio, You are mistaken Joint savings and IRA's are NOT split in half. In the State of Kentucky you will only be allowed to keep UP TO $109,560 in assets not counting the home and one vehicle.
Example: You would need to have $219,120 in order to be allowed to keep the full $109,560, if you have over $219,560 then you still will only be allowed the $219,120. If you only have $100,000 in non countable assets then you are only allowed to keep $50,000. The other part can be placed in a spousal annuity in the State of Kentucky.
You are allowed to keep your own income as the community spouse, this amount is not countable. If you do not have $21,859 per year of your own income the difference can be made up from the Nursing Home Spouse income if there is enough left over after they deduct the medical and personal allowance from this.
As for splitting IRA's this is not true. If the Nursing Home spouse has an IRA that is producing an income stream then the amount of income stream is countable income and is used to pay the Nursing Home. Any principal balance left after the NH spouse dies will be taken to reimburse the State Medicaid of any funds they have paid on behalf of the NH spouse. If the IRA is not producing an income stream then the full amount is countable assets and included in the amount they calculate to determine the spousal impoverishment amount.
The home if transferred to the community spouse after a certain point in the Medicaid application will not have a lien placed if it is in the name of the community spouse when the NH spouse dies.
Hope this helps
I am not a professional, do not claim to be and only post what I know to be true. Always double check with your Elder Law Attorney if there are any doubts. Just be sure they explain in detail. A lot can be read and assumed between the lines if you do not.
Interesting how different Elder/Estate Lawyers have different interpretations of the law. Doesn't surprise me though, laws are written by lawers in such a manner they require constant interpretaton, thus perpetuating the need for litigation/lawyers. That said I use a firm called "Bell Orr Ayers & Moore." How about you?
allferio, you say that you use a firm called "Bell Orr Ayers & Moore." how about me?
I use no firm, I am not a professional and do not claim to be, I only post what I know to be true. You can take the information I gave you and ask your firm if this is not correct and I will defer to you. I know this information is correct, you can take it or leave it.
I have a thought about how to get around this. Start a business, form an llc in your state, move the assets to the llc and you manage the llc. I am looking into this, as I think the purpose of the llc was to create a legal entity to keep someone from taking your assets in a lawsuit. This is a reverse useage of the llc, move the assets to the llc and now you are broke.
moorsb, Be very careful forming the limited liability company, if doing so to save assets from medicaid. You must show it as a true business, with careful annual accounting. I would most definitely seek the advice of a very qualified Elder Law Attorney certified in Medicaid before proceeding with this venture as I am sure you will.
i SAW THE ATTORNEY, AND HE TELLS ME I CAN GET VA ASSISTANCE, NO MATTER MY INCOME, MY HUSBAND WAS IN DURING VIETNAM CONFLICT. HE ALSO SAID HE CAN PROTECT IRAS, ANNUITIES FROM MEDICAID. I WAS THERE AN HOUR AND HAVE TO GO BACK NEXT WEEK WITH MORE INFO, ABOUT INSURANCE POLICIES, ETC. I FEEL CONFIDENT WITH HIM. HES TALKING ABOUT SETTING UP SPECIAL NEEDS TRUSTS.
Ky caregiver, The Attorney will be able to protect the IRA by the Special Needs Trust. These type trusts are only allowed in certain States and only for disabled people under age 65. Great that this will work in your situation. Yes, the Agent Orange if you Husband is classified as over 50% disabled the VA will not count his income, in fact I think but am not positive that if he is at least 50% service connected disabled he will qualify for the VA nursing home. A win win situation for you.
From what we were told, any veteran using the VA for medical can use their nursing homes or dementia care units. I was told that he still will have to apply for Medicaid and they will take that. I was emailing the social worker and she was suppose to find out more information but never heard back. I am assuming she went somewhere else. I need to connect up with one again once we decide where we are going to 'plant' ourselves.
With my FIL, who did not have service connected disability, they took the medicaid and at the end of the year my bil would have to submit his paperwork of how the money was spent. Any money left over from his SS they then took to pay back I assume medicaid.
Charlotte, You are probably correct about the 60 or 70% for the Nursing Home, If you note I said I was not sure. I think at one point it was 70% and then heard maybe 50%. I do know that the higher the percentage of disability the more on top of the list they are placed. My daughter works there.
Any Veteran is allowed the Nursing Home placement and in many cases so is the spouse of the Veteran. It depends on the disability and such as to how far down the list you are. With the 60 or 70% disability it is almost a guarantee.
I am not versed in the VA portion, only know bits and pieces and try not to make many posts about it. I do know the Agent Orange is a special animal as far as what they count. We have a friend who is disabled at 100% due to Agent Orange and none of his income or Assets are counted or even questioned.
I have been on this blog for several years and I notice more and more EOAD caregivers that might be intressted in what the VA has available. It was just last March that I found out from someone that the VA had approved a number of medical conditions that were going to be considered "presumative" for qualifications to obtain a service connected disability for exposure to
Sorry hit the post key...continue part 2. agent orange. My dh filed a claim and was granted 60% for his heart attack. He already had 10% so now he is at 70%. His contact with the VA suggested he apply for 100% because of his AD and COPD. Once you have 70% the other 30% does not have to be service connected.
I would suggest if you are interested just google VA disability guidelines. They have lots of information. I will be glad to answer any questions I can, but I really don't know all the ins and outs.
Jane, glad to hear the news about the VA. MyDH is 80% disabled, two tours in Viet Nam and exposed to AO. I am in process of getting him rated at 100% now that ischemic heart disease is recognized too as AO caused. Still waiting on that. We were originally told by our Elder Care Lawyer that because of his income he would not be eligible for Aid and Attendance but when I spoke to the VA I was told that under certain conditions the income is not a concern. So we shall see. Otherwise we will not qualify for medical. The Medical is a double edged sword anyway..you spend down, you are broke emotionally too and then when the spouse dies they will at one time or another come for the costs of the care provided by charging the estate.
Back on the subject of preserving assets, one topic we have not spoken about that some elder care lawyers bring up ( mine did and I said no ) is divorce..the catch is that Medicaid is now pretty smart about that one as a method to protect assets from their clutches. I said no to the notion of divorce..there is something about those vows..sickness and in health meant something, easy to say when both are well, but when actually faced with this that is when the metal meets the road. That said what is right for one may not be so for another so I am not judging anyone. I just stress that the Medicaid folks are wise to this effort so it too is something to be very careful about considering.
Mimi, The divorce is not a solution for Medicaid, in fact you would have to be divorced for at least one year, not living together as caregiver etc. Medicaid would consider it fraud if you tried to collect in a manner that did not signal a true divorce in all aspects.
The Elder Law Attorney is not completely familiar with VA laws. With 100% disabled you will have the cream of what they offer and your income and assets will not be questioned.