I would like some advice. I will be doing something in the next few days and would appreciate hearing what you think.
about three years ago, I sat my daughter and her husband down with out DH present and explained to them that I was seeing memory and personality changes in DH. I told them that I wanted them to understand that I wasn't sure what was causing these problems but that I wanted them to know. I wanted them to know so that they could adjust their reactions to him if he did something unusual, etc. Their reaction was that they didn't see anything wrong or different with him. I told them that they may or may not notice things but that I still wanted them to know. I gave them a couple of examples. that he was starting to have trouble understanding the calendar, that he was having trouble with measurements, and I explained the obvious to me mood and personality changes. (I have written about some of this a few months ago.)
During this time, DH and SIL got along pretty good. two years ago, SIL asked DH to help SIL's dad build a pole barn. This was something that DH can do. DH agreed and the three of them built this building. During this time and then during the following hunting season, DH and SIL had some differences. (SIL shot DH's deer was one thing.) DH says that SIL is rude and is disrespectful to DH. SIL thinks that DH is unreasonable and that he does not treat DH any different than other people.
this all "came to a head" in April. Daughter felt so bad about her dad not talking or acting happy when he was around her and her family. She asked me what the problem was and I told her that DH was upset with SIL and gave her a couple of examples of things that bothered DH. Daughter talked to SIL about these things and (as she always does) got angry and carried away about it. She told SIL that he needed to "fix" the problem.
SIL called our house and told DH that he is no longer welcome at their house because he has been "bad mouthing" SIL. After DH told him off on the phone, SIL told DH that he wanted to meet him in a park and get this resolved. (this means that they would meet in a park and punch it out.)
DH told SIL that he wanted to talk to Daughter and Daughter would not get on the phone. She waited 6 weeks to call DH and by that time, DH was very set in his mind that neither she or her husband liked him any more. Since then, he will not talk to her on the phone and he hides in the basement or garage if she drives up.
Daughter again got on SIL to fix things and they decided that they would give us an untimatum. Daughter told me that if we went to a local park in July for her step-son's birthday that SIL would be nice to DH.
continue...this just made DH even more determined to not talk to either of them.
During May and June, Daughter and I called each other and she visited me on Mother's Day. When DH and I did not go to the birthday party at the park in July, we have been pretty much cut off from them.
I have not called Daughter since she gave us the ultimatum. She has not called me. SIL has never tried to fix things on his own and told Daughter that she caused the problems and she had to fix them. SIL has not taken responsibility for what he told DH.
So...I have two reasons for not calling Daughter. The first and formost is that she and her husband are in the wrong and they/SIL owes DH an appology. I don't feel comfortable continuing a relationship under these circumstances. The second reason is because DH would feel that I was choosing them over him and it would cause major problems in our household. Just so you know, if I did feel strongly about calling Daughter even so, I would call her.
This is so unfair to me and DH because they have three children who we don't get to see. We also don't get to see our daughter. There were other things in the past that she and SIL did to me and at the time, DH asked me to "let them slide" to keep peace. after the phone call but before the ultimatum, I asked Daughter if I could schedule a time to pick up the children and bring them over for a play date with DH and me. she told me no.
Before I do anything, I would like some comments and suggestions. I am thinking of writing them individual letters. In SIL's letter, I will ask him to review the circumstances in his mind and consider appologizing to DH so that Daughter and the children can have a relationship with us. In Daughter's letter, I will let her know that she can't fix this and that her husband has to do it. I will tell her that DH and I still love her and the children and that I hope this will come to an end. I will also remind her of my conversation with them three years ago and tell her that this was what I was trying to avoid.
I have seen way too many families who don't speak to each other and hold a grudge over something that happened years ago. Life is too short to cut off loved ones from your life. Our daughter blamed me when my DH first showed signs of the dx. It was all my fault in her eyes because she couldn't face the fact that her beloved father would have anything wrong with him. We have gotten passed that and she now realizes that it was no ones fault. I wouldn't bring up past transgressions. I would just ask them to see the situation for what it is . Don't shut them off. Continue to be loving and cordial and hopefully they will come around.
IMHO I'd write one letter--copies to each of them. I'd remind them of the previous meeting you had with them 2 years ago. Acknowledge that they said they didn't see the problems then. Then, point out that over these last 2 years there have been problems. Do not go into details. Point out that if they think about it, your DH was not acting or reacting as he had before. That should have been a clue. Then go on, that as participants in the difficulties, and not being impaired you believe the responsibility rests with them to resolve this, as DH cannot.
Then (here's the hardest part) tell them that as your DH's condition continues to worsen, your focus has to be on taking care of him. You will keep them informed of his situation, but you cannot, and will no longer stand in the middle of this battle. Point out to them that maintaining the rift will deprive all of you, including the grandchildren of whatever good time is left before the Dementia takes him. Then lay it in their lap. The choice is theirs.
As hard as it will be, you need to get this off your plate. You've already seen that discussion doesn't work. Nor does appealing to either of them separately. Mary, This is their choice. They can always change it later, but you have to deal with now, and now it's too big a mess, pulling you away from what's most important--your DH and you. Good luck.
I would not say they have to resolve it but tell them that part of this disease is the reason button is broken. Therefore there is no reasoning with her father. One day he will be no longer know them, one day he will be gone, one day they will wish they had not been so 'right' which would keep them from seeing her dad. there is a great chance even if they apologize it still would not make a difference. As we learn in dealing with them, when hurt we have to go on like it never happened. Children are no different. These are adult children and I would expect them to 'forgive' offenses for the sake of love. I would definitely bring up the conversation 3 years ago - that you tried to warn them. But he was early in the disease and they were not around him enough to notice - but now they have seen what the disease is doing.
Mary - you need to let it go. Trying to correct/heal the situation is only making it worse for you. In fact, I would wager to say out of all parties involved, you are stressing the most about it. This isn't good for you.
I would tell them you don't want to get into who was right and who was wrong. Her dad needs her in his life and so do you. They may just need to suck it up, take the blame to move forward or else she will have to live with some painful 'if only's' for the rest of her life.
I think Carosi hit the nail on the head. Remember the KISS rule..keep it simple. Go back to the original discussion when you tried to warn them of the changes happening in your DH but that they did not see this. Reminding them of that conversation and then going forward with the odd reactions of DH should put focus on that discussion prior. And yes instruct them again that this disease is progressive, give them something to read about it if you have that/ They need to know that this disease is progressive and fatal and that they are wasting precious time that they could enjoy with him and the grandkids. One day he won't know them as adults if he recalls them in any fashion at all..and one day he won't talk or make sense, and one day he won't walk, and one day he will just stare into space and not eat and just vanish. If they value DH ( and daughter do you value your dad) then stop wasting time and cowboy up, take responsibility for the misunderstanding and the muddle it is and get on with living while you can. And then just step back and let them make the decision...you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If they remain stubborn and won't move and decline to be involved with your DH then in the end the remorse will be theirs. Let them know you love them and miss the wee folk but you have too much to do to take care of DH to be in the middle of their disagreement..They are adults not little kids but your husband is digressing and he can't help it.
Then let go and take care of your DH and yourself.
I agree with Carosi and Mimi -- try to get everyone (including yourself) to blame JUST the disease and to deplore the effect it has on relationships. Concentrate in your letter on his condition and the inevitable future. Try not to blame them in your heart, do not say ANYTHING in the letter about mistakes they have made, blame the disease.
Very good moorsb! We have sort of the same problem here. DH's grown daughter does not talk with him. It is because of what he did to her a few years ago. Now of course I see it was the AD. But she will not look past the hurt. And she was hurt. But it is up to DD to forgive and move forward. She knows where we are. It is sad so many families broken up over AD. Mary you just need to let them know that their father is not the same man he once was. One letter to them both and be careful what you put to paper, you do not want anything held against you at a later time. I wish you well on this, I know it hurts. We have 4 grown children and the 14 yo still at home. Out of all of them the youngest is the only one who seems to care about her dad. As she says "no one cares about our family, not even our own family" This from a 14 year old :(
Mary, I hope my opinion does not upset you, but I have a different take.
Imagine for a moment that your daughter, her husband, and all their children were killed in a horrific car accident. Really imagine it. How would you feel? Would you be glad that you stuck to your principles and did not give in? Or would you be sorry that you let a simple misunderstanding keep your family separated from you?
Is pride that important? More important than your grandchildren?
I would bury my pride, and write a letter filled with love, and I would ask for forgiveness for any hurt that they have experienced.
Then I would explain that DH’s condition causes unexpected, unexplained, and sometimes unwanted behavior. While you don’t know if that was at the root of this misunderstanding, it will most assuredly cause misunderstandings in the future. You know how upsetting it can be, as you live with it on a daily basis. Your hope is that you can all leave whatever is in the past, in the past, and that you can move forward, in a spirit of love and understanding. Tell them how much you miss them all. Invite them for dinner.
If you write a letter, with conditions for reunification, don’t bother sending it. They have their pride, too.
If you are ready to FORGIVE and FORGET (without pointing out that you are doing so), you should be able to get the family relations back on track. If you insist on keeping track of who was “in the wrong” and who owes whom an apology, this will never be resolved. And that would be very sad. it would be the same as if you DID lose them in a tragic accident.
Same here. Just today thoughts were running through my head - and they do that too often - of things in the past. I was remembering a couple of people my dh offended in the past - causing hard feelings - and I have decided to personally apologize to those two people. I did not understand, ever, why he did it, because he was not the type of person to offend anyone. It was so unlike him, but I couldn't do anything about it. These two people have been harboring bad feelings because of my dh offense. I see one of them usually once a week and the next time I do intend to personally apologize for whatever my dh did, although I am not sure of what it was. The other was a teenager who he "was sure had driven his riding lawnmower so hard that the differential or something was ruined and the mower had to be replaced. He fired him. His family had been personal friends for 40 years and there has been restraint on our relationship since that happened. This has been on my mind ever since these things happened and this week I am mailing an apology to the now young adult and explaining my dh was in the early stages of AD. Life is too short to carry grudges - on either side. Better to feel better yourself and walk forward into the future with a clear heart.
I am proud of my fellow caregivers. Youse guys (yall in Texasize) are such good friends to the rest of us. Mary, I just urge you to take the positive route and not the negative route. we have such little time to share all the love we can muster up. bill
I definitely agree with Mary .. forget the APOLOGY. Why is that important to anyone. Just turn the page and start new. You are asking them to say they were wrong, and maybe they don't believe they are...and the stand-off will continue. I'd write a note, reminding them of the discussion years ago, and that true to the disease, he has become less and less of the person they used to know... Just begin slow..with ONLY the daughter coming in..and the children the next time and the entire family ...with NO DISCUSSIONS of the past being the rule. He may not remember the details of then. It has to be resolved. AND YOU need to let it go yourself. AFTER, they will be all you have left.
But, they may have to 'apologize' to dad because he seems to be stuck on it - he did nothing wrong. The apology will mainly be to appease her hb and due to the disease may need to be done again. Make it plain it is an apology in words only cause who is right or wrong is not important. Peace and family are more important. Getting everyone to a place where Mary's hb will not be angry (we all know it will probably rare up again and need repeating) so the family can visit. This is where getting them to understand this horrible disease and what it does to the person is very important.
Thank you all so much for your responses. Yes, Charlotte, DH is really stuck on this. In addition, he is worried that if they start coming around (his words) that they will do it again. Him forgetting about it won't happen as his memory is still good for the most part.
Mary22033, what you said is pretty much what I have been thinking. The only problem is that without an appology and different actions from SIL, I don't see DH accepting back a relationship.
I agree with everyone that I need to make another attempt and, at the same time, find a way to stop this from consuming my life. All I can do is what I can do. This is the same with daughter, she can do for her but she can not appologize for her husband. She already tried that and DH told her that the only thing she did wrong was not talking to him on the phone that night and then not calling him for 6 weeks.
I hope you all don't mind me using some of your words in my letter. pieces from here and there will make a perfect letter. I know that I need to write this letter but I may not mail it. I may call Daughter instead and keep it light. Like someone here said, first bring Daughter back then the children.
I think my immediate goal is to make sure that Daughter knows that I love her.
I have also a situation with my DH's son, who suffers from bi polar.... I couldn't agree more, it's so important, not only for you and your DH but for them. your DD needs to be involved as her father gets worse. She needs to know that she has been a part of his life. I wish you the best in this, it's not easy to make peace, but it is important. Prayers and hugs to you.
Bless your hearts..I know how hard this is. I don't have pat answers and my DH has been terrible to various ones of our children. Terrible unjustified anger..awful accusations and suspicions that have caused so much pain..for them and for me. I dont think DH ever felt hurt. He felt that he was right even when he was completely wrong. No one could convince him otherwise. Its really hard to blame a disease when someone looks perfectly healthy and sounds perfectly sane even when exploding about theft of money or equipment or whatever. He even poured grease on some steps trying to cause someone to fall,that he believed had wronged him! That was OUTSIDE our family and there were probably more events that I thankfully wasn't told about so I don't know who to apologize to. Right now, he is medicated and nicer than he's ever been. The irony of this seems like a terribly bad joke.
The facts are that some family members are not going to get it..EVER.. I dont' know if they'll get it AFTER. BUT reaching out in love to your daughter if that relationship can be fostered just between you and her..AND reaching out to your grandchildren if those relationships can be made closer, would be my goal. If your daughter can be supportive and helpful to YOU..you need that if possible.
We sometimes can't answer for the things others do even though we want to OR we think its expected. That may make no sense whatsoever But I'm feeling some of the same things because DH's own brother won't go see him. They don't call to ask or seem to even care. I think they are angry because we placed him..I tried to keep them informed from the beginning abuot changes and limitations but unless one is actually AROUND enough, one can easily avoid even thinking about it. Our son is nearly the same. I don't talk about 'issues' with them. I do keep in touch with our son. Am determined to do that but I don't talk about DH unless he asks. Even then I keep it simple.. If he wants to SEE how his dad is doing he can visit and at times he does. This time of year makes things even more sensitive. We have lost far too much..BUT am ever thankful for this place and you all.
Judy-I had the same experience. Right before my son's wedding my husband lashed out at one of our daughters with accusations out of nowhere. We were all stunned. No reason what so every. I hope by now she has put it behind her. I know none of us will never forget the event.
This is what I put together for Daughter. I will re-read it next week and then decide if I will mail it. I want to make it shorter but want to cover it all. Any comments are appreciated. You will notice some of your words and comments, which were most helpful.
Mary!!
"I am sending this letter to you because I want to make sure that you know that I and dad love you very much. Dad does not know that I am sending this letter but I am sure that he would agree with everything that I am saying. Dad talks about you and brags you up all the time. Great kid, works hard, good mom, never cause any trouble. Dad has also on more that one occasion, bragged "SIL" up. What a good provider he is, a good father, good to you, he can be such a nice guy, etc. Dad and I need you and your family in our life, as I am pretty sure you need us in yours.
You and I both tried to take responsibility for the misunderstanding that caused your dad to withdraw from your family. We sometimes can't answer for the things others do even though we want to or we think it’s expected of us. As I told you months back, there really was nothing more that you or I could do to fix things. What we both can do is continue to love your dad. And I will continue to take care of him and make his and my life as easy to bear as possible. No one knows fore sure what is wrong with him or how long he might have on this earth. I have become very protective of him.
Remember, about three years ago, I visited with you about the early signs that I was experiencing with dad. My daily interaction with him made the changes more obvious to me than to others. May be the tumor is causing pressure on his brain, or may be it is something else. Whatever it is, it definitely is having an effect on the part of his brain that controls mood, personality, and executive function (ability to reason). As with all brain disorders, the chances of it becoming progressively worse is almost a given. One of the first things that I noticed was about 13 years ago when dad took apart a carburetor to clean it and did not know how to put it back together. This was so unlike him. Whether or not you see these changes in him, they really do exist.
What I do know is that whatever dad’s condition is, it causes him to exhibit unexpected and unexplained behavior, and he reacts differently than he would have in the past. He is no longer passive in his relationships, and he takes everything said at face value. If I were to say something to him like “cowboy up,” he would tell me that he can’t because he doesn’t have a horse anymore. This morning, I told him that I had “charged his phone” for him. He didn’t understand that I meant plugged it in so it had a full battery, he thought that I had placed his phone some how on a charge account. I know how upsetting the change in his personality is, as I live with it every day. I hope that you can leave whatever is in the past, in the past, and somehow move forward, in a spirit of love and understanding.
Finally, Dad worries about everything all of the time. One of his major worries is that if people start coming around (his words) and he gets happy and used to them, that something will happen and he will be hurt again. He is so emotionally down that he has no means to control more hurt. He is protecting himself. "
well, I finally did the letter. I took me a month. Today is my granddaughter's 7th birthday and I am missing it. It makes me mad and also sad. This is the letter that is being mailed to my daughter in the morning. It is from my heart and I think it is a good one. I need some emotional encouragement from you all.
Thanks, Mary!!
"Dear (daughter's name),
Another special day went by and I did not get to see you. I can’t begin to tell you how much this hurts me. I wish I could see an end to it all but I can’t.
I have my hands full right now with dad and, as much as you and I both tried; we were not able to find a way for the two loves of our lives to reach an understanding. I’m sure that you tried as hard as I did. The funny thing about all of this is that on many occasions, I have heard Dad tell someone (mainly his cousin) many good things about (SIL's name). I know that Dad wants a relationship but he is so scared to be hurt that he can’t figure out how to reach out.
I don’t want to cause any more problems between you and SIL, that is not my intent. I do want you both to know that if Dad was capable of getting past all of this that I believe he would.
Some days, it is an effort for him to get through the day. He, more and more, is growing into someone else. Any amount of stress, no matter how small, causes his day to turn up side down. I think that the thing that causes the most problem for him is that he has a lot of trouble sorting through in his mind what is actually happening, and the best way to react. This is really a problem for him right now. I know that this doesn’t make much sense to you because you have not seen it happening.
Just please know that I think of you and your family often and that I love you.
Mary, I take this to include no interaction at Christmas and New Years as well. Is that correct? And now your grand daughter's birthday came and went with nary a word from them at all..nothing since at least early Dec?
Mary indeed its sad you cant find a solution to this lack of understanding. if it were me, i think i would try to ask for visitations with grandaughter on neutral grounds if its an issue to see her at your home or hers. there is absolutely no reason why you should be included in the non visitation of your grandaughter. all else fails you are entitled to her regardless of the issues with the others. its in the grandchilds BEST interest to not be cut off from you. if you want to push it you could threaten to consult with an attorney to request visitation rights as the grandmother. they may have issues with your spouse due to his illness but shouldnt carry it over to you personally. using a child for vengeance doesnt sit well with any court. i would try to get them to allow you visits at their house or another location they deem appropriate. if they continue to deny you access for something sil/husband/daughter cant work out then i would pursue a consultation with an atty. its for you and your grandaughters best interest. how sad.
I think it is a good letter. The only thing I would add is at the end of the 4th paragraph I would say:
To help you understand some of what we are dealing with, here is an excerpt from a document entitled "Understanding the Dementia Experience" by Jennifer Ghent-Fuller (you can find the complete document online): "Emotions stay fairly intact in the person with dementia. They continue to feel the whole array of emotions: happiness, sadness, joy, grief, and so on. What changes is the amount of control they have on the expression of their emotions. When well, most of us can sit in a room and feel a strong emotion, such as anger or joy, but hide it from any one else, so no-one knows how we feel, and we can control what we say to mediate the expression of that emotion. This type of control is no longer available as dementia progresses. For this reason, people with Alzheimer Disease are seen to have emotional swings. It is important to realize the effect you have on the emotions of the person with dementia. They are extremely sensitive to your body language (and your spoken language), and may easily react with anxiety to a frown on your face or tension in your voice. As you develop an awareness of their reaction to your moods, you will become adept at being sure you are not communicating anxiety. If you do, take a few minutes to gather your thoughts, calm down, and then approach them again with a distraction or a different approach. As the disease becomes more advanced, people with dementia become unable to express their emotions with their facial muscles, or it may not occur to them to hug. They may respond negatively to the noise and confusion of many people present. Young children, particularly, need to be given an explanation that “Grampa still cares, he just can’t show it.”
Mary, this whole thing has me bothered. In your opening line I think I would say " Another special day went by and I did not get to see you or my grand daughter and I cannot begin to tell you how very deeply this hurts me." Your daughter may not realize what an impact this is having on both you and her own little girl, not being able to see her grandmother. If there is too much upset for the grandchild to see her grandpa in the state he suffers, that is something that her parents have to evaluate. That said, it is not fair to keep her from seeing her loving, her very loving grandmother. Re wording the opening line may trigger that thought so that your daughter begins to see beyond just the annoyance with her father's condition which I take she and her husband still do not understand or are too frightened to let into their own psyche.
I would not threaten any legal action at this time, though you certainly can entertain that in the future if nothing changes.
I like the article that has been suggested. We can only hope to open eyes but those who refuse are the ones in the end who will lose. It is so sad that your daughter is losing so much time she could spend with her own dad..we all know why.
Yes, Mimi, it has been early- to mid-july since we have had any interaction with them. They have SIL's 13 YO son that they are raising and two daughters age 2 and 7. I asked daughter once if I could arrange a play date for the three children with DH and me and she told me NO. in March, SIL banned DH from "his" house and offered to "settle it in a park." (this means to punch it out.) I did visit with DD on the telephone a few times since. She really feels that DH is being unreasonable.
Hopefully this note to DD will get some communication going. Others suggested that I invite them for dinner. This might work for others but not in this situation. DH hid in the basement when DD brought the girls over to our house on Mother's day. DH has told me to "do what I want" but the last thing I want is to make my life harder. DH would only act like I was undermining him in some way. We all know that a 240 lb 5 year old is really hard to handle. And you can't make them do anything that they don't want to do.
Last Christmas was a good example of all this. DD wanted me to schedule three hours to watch the girls while they went to a work dinner. She wanted to schedule this two weeks in advance. I told her that I would love to have the girls over but that I couldn't predict how DH would be that week. His moods were very hard to handle during that time. I told her that if he was having a really bad week (cussing, ranting, etc.) that I would have to cancel. She could not understand and thought that I was being difficuly.
one more comment - on Saturday, I reminded DH that Monday was granddaughter's 7th birthday and that I was both mad and sad. He told me that if I wanted to buy her a gift that I could and that he wasn't stoping me. I told him that I shouldn't get her a gift if we weren't going to see her. he told me that some day, may be in 10 years, that I would see her and that I could give the gift to her then. He told me that I should buy all of them presents, even SIL, and then when I see them next that I could give them the gifts. he told me that this way, they would know that I hadn't forgot about them. In his next breath, DH was wanting to start a weight lifting program so that he could "hold his own" in the fight with SIL.
I really think that if SIL would make an attempt that DH would allow it. However, DH might yell at him and then there would be really trouble. You just never know.
Also, SIL and DD are not the only family members having trouble with DH, he has isoulated himself from everyone except me and Son. Even his mother and father. I have tried to talk with the family members and they all can't see a problem with him. They blame him and no one will reach out.
Wow, how insensitive. It seems to me that your DD and SIL fundamentally don't understand what AL is, or they are in complete denial. Sounds like your "beaf" is with your DD and SIL, not your grandchildres. How about sending a nice gift to your granddaughter anyway (your granddaughter probably doesn't understand why grandma and grandpa haven't sent a gift, particularily if you have in the past) and send a book/pamphlet to your DD and SIL that explains AL.
A thought or two come to mind. 1. With your DH's unpredictable mood swings with this disease, perhaps it would be best for you to spend time with the grandchildren when he is not present. Next time DD asks if you can child mind, is there someone who can stay with DH while you are away? If so then do it.
2. Your grand daughter is not responsible for you not being with her on her birthday. I wonder what her parents told her as to why you are not there? I sort of agree with with your DH lucid suggestion..get her a gift anyway BUT NOT DD or SIL. You might consider something small for your grand daughter and set aside a savings bond for her that matures down the road..Or you could get her a little locket..but something so the child knows you did not forget her. Or in your trust, if you have one, you can put something in place for her and do not list the SIL or DD as those to manage something you put in trust for her..and put a letter to the child with it.
3.I would NOT invite them to dinner. Things are too unstable between SIL and DH.
It just stuns me that not only these two are stuffing their heads in the sand but that you are faced with other family members who also join them. Is there any possible way that they could meet with your DHs doctors so a professional could explain to these people just what your DH suffers from and what you are having to contend with on a day to day basis? Would they go? If they would that might help but if the doctor said he would see them and they refuse then they are a lost cause in this and all you can do is establish a way to communicate with the grandkids even if that means going to court for visitation. Once you have exhausted all polite means of trying to educate these people and if they are continuing to deprive you of time with your grand daughter, then it is time to play hardball. They are playing hardball now using the child as the pawn. It is ugly behaviour on their part. You don't deserve this.
Mary, You have a kind heart, a forgiving heart. You are a woman who would walk over hot coals for them...they, sadly would not do the same for you.
I hope I am not out of line..andI don't mean to insult your DD but the lack of understanding and the lack of any effort to see this sad situation with your DH is deplorable.
I have a 11 year old granddaughter that I have not seen nor spoken to since she was 1. My son and her mom were divorced and he has not seen nor spoken with her either. All we have is a P.O. box to send things to - he doesn't have the money to go to California, hire an attorney and make his daughter available to him. IN all fairness, he has never sent present nor paid any child support - non was ordered in the divorce. This Christmas was the first one I have missed sending her a present because my son has failed to give me her new PO Box. I am hoping by her birthday in May he will.
I also have a 9 year old granddaughter and 12 year old grandson that lives with their dad and his family. My daughter walked out on them after the divorce and as far as him and his family are concerned she can stay gone, We use to drive the 60 miles to pick them up once a month for a weekend. My grandson is ADHD and a handful. Granddaughter is a sweety - but we have not seen them since 8/09 - my choice. He likes GD, but not GS - he is a challenge and never bonded with him. I got to the point I was just too exhausted after a weekend trying to keep them entertained and away from him. Along with their Christmas money I sent a letter explaining why I have not come to see them and about grandpa. I always tell them how much I love them.
mary in montana - send the presents anyway. do not punish the child for the problems between you and their parents. If you want - buy them presents or savings bond (but then you need their SS#)
Mary in Montana--Also check out "Uniform Gift to Minors" accounts. It is another option to gift money to grandkids, the only names on the account would be yours and the child's.
I am having similar problems with my Son and his family.
DH offended the three grown and married granddaughters, ages between 26 and 33, by hugging too long and kissing them and then having forgotten he did it earlier doing it again a little later. They said he also starred at their brests? This caused DH & me to be told NOT to come to their house anymore. Bad feelings have caused us to no longer have any contact via phone, e-mail, etc. I also told my son and his wife of DH dx 5 years ago. Apparently there is no compasion on their part. DH and I have been married for 30 years. DH is Sons step father but they got along well before this episode.
Some people are just too self centered to care about anyone else. It has been a year now and I guess we will never speak again. I concider myself "DEAD" to them. The friends we have help me to continue on. It hurts but I will survive. By the way there is one great-grandchild who was born after this and no pictures or communication ---go figure.
So Mary try to go on with your life. Make new friends your own age and live this next phase of your life with dignity knowing you are doing the best you can for your DH and yourself. I do attend a support group for Alzheimers and their compassion and understanding help a lot as do the understanding and help of our friends.
Well, DD probably will get my note in the mail after work today. I hope something good comes out of it.
This afternoon, DH's mother visited our house for the first time since Sept. She is having her own issues and it is a long story. I have written about much of it in other discussions.
I heard from DH a bit ago that he and her had a pretty good yelling and cussing match and she left mad. He said that it lasted for 1 1/2 hours and he went to the garage in the middle of it to calm down.
Rather than trying to understand DH and let him talk (and probably yell some) she brought up some things that didn't help the issue. She told him that it is all his (and my) fault that they don't see each other. She also yelled at him about DD. She told DH that he should let DD come visit. DH told her that he has never told anyone that they couldn't come visit. He reminded her that son-in-law threanted to beat DH up and banned DH from their house. His mother told him again that it was my fault and DH's tumor's fault and, apparently, left mad.
What a heart ache this all is. I wish she could have been more patient and let him vent. If she had, things might have turned out different. I tried to talk with her over the last two years about HD's problems and she just doesn't see it. She is not a stranger to this kind of behavior as HD's dad was diagnosed at the age of 56 with dementia. He is 84 right now and acts alot like DH does. The doctors have not labeled his dementia with a type. I would bet that it is also FTD.
My DD called me yesterday afternoon, after she received my note in the mail. I was really surprised how calm I remained in the conversation. She was choked up and a bit teary. She wanted to discuss all of the issues again and I let her do it a little bit then I would remind her that the intent of my note was so that she knew that I loved her and her family. She kept coming back to the idea that DH is chosing to behave the way he is. "If dad really loved me, he would come visit." "If dad really loved me, he would visit with me when I come over, and not sit and say nothing." I asked her if it would be easier for her to understand DH's problem if he was in a coma, or if he had a leg cut off. She said that it is not the same. She said that DH is acting this way because he wants to and he would act differently if he wanted to.
We then talked a little bit about how we could get together and how DH and I could see the children. I reminder her that she told me NO when I asked if I could bring them to the house. I told her that she could come over and visit with them. I told her that we could meet somewhere. She really wasn't open to any of these ideas. She reminded me that on Mother's Day that DH hid in the basement shen she came over. I asked her if she felt that was normal behavior for him. She said that she guessed so because he could have stayed and visited if he wanted to.
She then told me that if he didn't act differently when she came to visit then what would the point be of her visiting. I told her that even if he leaves or doesn't talk that he at least knows that she cares and that I get to see the children. She told me that she is so stressed by it all that she had to stay away. I told her that I completely understood about the stress part because I was going through it also.
I finally had to end the call because I didn't want it to end up with her yelling at me. I told her that I was really trying to come up with an acceptable way for us or me to see her and/or her family but that I hadn't found one yet. She told me that I could come over and visit. I told her that until her dad is allowed to also visit their home that I did not feel it was acceptable to me to do it. It told her that the reason that I reached out to her in the note was because I wanted her to know that I love her. I said that I wanted her to know that I think of her and her family every day.
She tried really hard to keep her temper and she admitted that she really didn't see DH's problem as a problem. She really feels that he can choose how he is acting.
At least we talked and may be it will open a door. Hopefully, she and SIL will make a visit attempt and things go better than the visit from DH's mother.
Thanks for all of your advice. There is much more that was said but this gives you a good idea of how it went.
I'm glad you were able to talk with your daughter, but I'm sorry that she still doesn't get it. That she still thinks he can control his behavior.
I can't remember if your husband has a diagnosis. If so, is it alzheimers or ftd? There is a good pamphlet regarding FTD that you could send her. Let me know if you would like the information.
You have to be the sweetest woman in that state. Here is how I see things as a result of this conversation....YOU are the one doing all the soul searching to find a way to see the children and spend time with them. I really think your daughter and her husband are stubborn and just dug in with their own opinion OR are using this as an excuse not to be around your DH at all. For her not to realize or recognize that for a grown man to hide in the closet when they came to visit as something other than normal behaviour, that is is just a stunt, tells me a lot. I wonder, is her husband a control freak? If he isn't but your DHs behaviour frightened them to the point they feel the kids are not safe with him that is one issue. They have to protect their kids and it could be that you may have to accept the terms of seeing the children without Grandpa if it means keeping the kids safe. If that is not the case, and there is no threat to the children then who can say anything other than they are being totally unreasonable to listen to you or even try to learn about this disease. I have a hard time understanding this kind of stupidity.
Your poor husband hid in the closet because something terrified him. For them not to see this and understand that this is out of the realm of his previously normal behaviour along with the changes in his personality, especially in light of the fact that they USED to get on is beyond reason.
There are no so blind as those who will not see.
Earlier someone said maybe it is time to surround yourself with friends who love you and are supportive. And perhaps a lawyer can advise on how you can see your grandchildren if it comes to it. In the meantime, know that we here all care about this and can imagine how sad this makes you to know your own flesh and blood refuses to take the blinders off and make use of the time there is to make memories with Grandpa. Feel our collective arms around you.
Sounds like the daughter is in complete denial. She refuses to accept the disease and its affects. She refuses to accept that he has no control over his actions. Maybe send her a book or pamphlet about the disease or if she is online send her links to AD that explain the disease. I sure hope something/someone will get through to her. I hate to think that in the denial one day she will wake up but it will be too late, then she will have a whole lot of 'if onlys'.
You did a great job - I would not have had the patience you did with her. I do agree, if need be, go see the grandkids alone if you have someone to watch hb. It just might be through the grandkids you reach your daughter. Children will accept the reality a lot easier than adults. If you explain grandpa's behavior/illness on their level, they may just get their parents to come out of denial.
I think Deb said what I wanted to say. First of all, maybe you could send your daughter some literature or websites to refer her to that would explain what is going on with your spouse. I don't get it when a child knows a parent is suffering from an illness such as FTD (which is what it sounds like to me) yet blame him for things he says and does that he simply can't help. I don't know why a parent should offer anything in the way of an apology when there is no apology to make. It seems to me as if the daughter should be learning how to let some of the things her father says or does "go over her head," so to speak. If he has a diagnosis such as FTD, as I said before, there isn't anything he can do to change things; he simply can't help what goes on in his brain. His reasoning is broken. He can't help it when he has a need for confrontation. Deb knows, and I know. We live it. I don't think I would be apologizing for anything. As for the grandchildren, I would make sure I see them regularly, even without their grandfather. You must keep that bond with them for yourself. You need them, and you need your daughter. She should understand that. You need help from your daughter, and what I mean by that is support and understanding of what you and her father are going through. She should be old enough to be able to understand that. I'm sorry if I sound harsh.
I agree with all Bev and Charlotte have said. I especially agree about this apology. You owe no one an apology for your husband's illness nor the efforts to which you must go to care for him. I would hope your daughter and sil will read anything you might send. But as the old saying goes you can lead a horse to water but..... And Bev made a very very important point which is to keep close to the grandchildren. In an ideal world having them involved with Grandpa would be wonderful but with dementia we do not live in anything close to an ideal world. You have done the best you can at being the peacemaker between these people. Your husband cannot help what he does and says..as you pointed out to your daughter, if he were a normal healthy man would he seriously do these things? Of course not. And therein lies the rub. These otherwise mature adults who are themselves parents should recognize this and find ways to help solve the problem rather than come at you in a combative way. I would never have the patience with this situation that you have. God love you for your loving heart. We should all be so lucky to have a mom with such a big heart that is so full of love. Your heart should not be broken with this additional cross.
I may have missed something here. Why is it always necessary to BRING DH to your initial visits with your daughter and grandchildren. You are bringing the problem into every situation. Fix one problem first and then proceed with the other. I had the same situation with my DH and our grandson. He had 'grown up' and DH didn't recognize him and insisted he leave the house. He's a 27 year old musician and had let his hair grow longer than my ultra conservative husband felt was appropriate,.. and he claimed he had no idea who he was and wanted that darned (???) hippie out of here. It broke my grandson's heart..because they were so close during his teen years. I continued to see my grandson, away from DH. We worked out the situation, and finally our precious grandson understood the illness was speaking that day and not his beloved grandfather.
Do not keep insisting your husband be involved in the reconciliation. When he is gone, you want to have your family with you. The longer YOU stay away (because they don't want to be around DH), the harder this will be.
And YES, the children do not need to hear or witness ourbursts. Dr. Phil is known to say repeatedly that these confrontations are stamped indellibly in the minds of the children, even toddlers. They do not need to be around when arguments are ongoing. That is why the DD is not bringing the children over to your home for dinner, I would bet!
Well said, Nancy. When this journey is over she will need her family even more. I truly believe that we should keep our family connections as peaceful as possible. Sometimes that means going more than 50%. Besides that's what we mothers and grandmothers do. I will not let issues separate me from my family even if it is not my fault. I had to play peacemaker with my younger sisters several times and I know it was the right thing to do.
last week was DD's birthday. Age 29. DH asked me to send a birthday card to her. When I was picking out the card, I saw a pretty necklace that I sent to her also. The card said what a wonderfull, bright, caring daughter, etc. she was and how great she turned out. It was very pretty and loving, and said really nice things about her. I signed it from me and put a note that "dad and I wanted her to know that we were thinking of her on her birthday." I then wrote on the blank side of the card that the card was from dad and the gift from me. And signed it "love mom."
Son talked to her before she got the mail and told her that she would be getting the card. She was very excited on the phone to him about the card. She got the card the next day and called me on my cell while I was grocery shopping. The call lasted 25 minutes in the produce department.
The call started out with a really heartfelt thank you from her for the card. I told her that I was glad that she liked it and that dad really wanted to send her the card. She asked why he didn't sign it if he wanted her to get it. I reminded her that he has hardly ever signed the cards. She then told me that she was hurt by the gift because she would rather have me come for cake than get a gift. I told her that granddaughter would probably like it and that if it upset her to give it to granddaughter. She told me that she would keep it because I gave it to her but that she didn't just want gifts she wanted to see me. I told her that I understood her feelings and that I was really trying to come up with a good way to accomplish that.
We talked about how to accomplish that. I reminded her that I had asked to pick up the children for a play date or lunch and that she told me NO. I asked her if I invited her and the children for lunch or to visit somewhere, if that would work. She mentioned that I could come to their house. I reminded her that I was honoring her father by not visiting her house until SIL invited her dad back to their house. She told me that that would probably never happen. She then asked why I would just invite her and not SIL to lunch. I told her that I would find it uncomfortable but that if that was how it had to be then I would invite him also. I asked her if he would be happy to come or if he would sit and look "stoned faced" like he had the last several times at our home. I reminded her that this was part of what lead up to the problem between he and her dad. I kept it as loving as I could but it really did not go anywhere good.
She thinks that it is all my fault that DH doesn't come to their house and see them. She thinks that if I tell him he has to, that he will. etc. etc. She thinks that if I make him go to the doctor more often that they can make him better. I told her to do a search on Pick's and read the symptoms. I told her that people with this do not get better, only worse. I told her that if that didn't help her understand what was going on then she would have to wait until she could see it in him. I told her again that the reason she was having such a hard time with this is because it wasn't anything obvious that she could see. I told her that it was like the wind. That you can't see it but you know it was there.
She thinks that somehow I am either making this all up or I could fix it if I tried hard enough. We talked about how I told her and SIL three years ago about it and that SIL told her dad in front of me "she thinks that you have dementia. I don't think you have it, I think she has it." I told daughter that things like this do not help me and that it is so hard talking with her about it when I know that she doesn't understand what is going on.
She told me that she would call the house later and talk to her dad. I told her that was a good idea but not to put high expectations on the call. I reminded her that he might not talk to her and that if he did that he might not say the right things and hurt her feelings. He did talk to her and she was crying and told him that she loved her. He said to her that no one loves him. That went back and forth. At least he talked to her.
I'm not sure where this will go but at least there is communication again.
At least there is communication but I'm not sure where it is going. It hurt just to read. My heart goes out to you and for all those who have family who just don't get it. <<<<hugs>>>>. It;s just not easy to convince people who have already made their mind up.
I think BOTH of you have issues that need to be ironed out. I would go see my daughter and granddaughter alone if that was the only way it could happen. It could be a one hour lunch if nothing else. Women "do lunch" without men all the time. Why not take baby steps here and do that. Truth be told, it sounds as if you have as many issues as your daughter...and that is so sad. My advice is that you and your daughter should see a family counselor and let them help you walk through this horrific situation. Otherwise, everyone loses.
Yes, I did invite her and the 3 children or just her and the two girls to lunch and she wanted it to be her entire family. I told her that the whole family would be fine but that she had to know that it would be uncomfortable for me and probably for SIL also. I told her that we could all (with or with out DH) meet somewhere to just play for a while. I suggested the play area in the Mall as meeting in the park was not a good idea. She really doesn't want to meet other than me going to her house. May be I am being hard-headed on this one but I really don't think it is right for me to visit their home when my husband is not allowed to visit also. I think that it is a little much for her to expect me to do this.
I have suggested to DH for us to just show up at their house to mend things but I am not pushing him to do this. DH has told me that if he is invited back to their house by SIL that he might go. We all know that with the problems that our spouses have (especially FTD) that it is really hard to make them do something that they do not want to do.
One thing that DD keeps bring up is last year when her older step-son (age 13) who really gets along well with DH visited our house that he tried to give DH a hug and DH said something like "we don't give hugs around here." I tried to help DD understand that sometimes DH will say or do things that don't make sense and that she could explain to her stepson that DH sometimes does not act like himself. I can understand her and SIL wanting to protect their children but what I don't understand is shutting their children completely out of DH's life.
This is really a hard one because no matter how much explaining or trying to educate DD, she really does believe that some how this is my fault. I feel sorry for her for that. I don't hold it against her and I am not mad at her. However, I can only go so far in trying to keep the relationships going without her reaching back a little bit. That is why I was so glad that she did ask to talk to her dad and he did get on the phone with her. Hopefully this will help them. I will continue to try to meet up with her, and the kids and also SIL if this is how she wants it done. So far my attempts have failed.
I really do appreciate all of your comments. We all tend to live in our little shells and it is good to hear how it looks from the outside.