the new TSA screening procedures how do you think your spouse would handle it? I know some of you have already had stressful situations and in some cases nightmares traveling through airports with your spouse. I know it is random but there are a lot of unanswered questions of how they will handle situations. Some questions I have are:
We already know how they ignored that guy with bladder cancer warnings about it they went over his bag on his stomach that collected urine it would break loose and he was ignored. The result embarrassment and humiliation. What of the babies, disabled and people with healthy reasons that have to wear pads or diapers? They say the gential/crouch pat down is necessary to make sure no one is smuggling in explosives in their underwear. There was recently a man that bordered the plan overseas as an old man and came off the plane a young man. So they now say even the elderly are not exempt from searching. Are they going to take these people into a back room and personally search their diaper or pants?
We have spent years telling our children that no one has permission to touch them in their personal area. Yet now they may be subjected to it because terrorist can smuggle drugs in baby diapers or childrens panties as easily as adult pants. How do we explain this double standard?
Abuse victims: due to my sexual abuse and rape history the last thing I want is to be groped in my crouch or my breast fondled in the name of safety. With doctors I tolerate breast and pelvic exams for health reasons. When I was going thru infertility treatment at a university hospital it was so hard to have stranger come in doing it just for experience (residents and interns). I tolerated it in hopes of getting pregnant. But this is different? I don't care if it is a woman doing it, to me it is still violating. How are they going to handle women and men who can't tolerate it even some to the point they would freak out? Even the body scan is a violation of privacy IMO.
I know these invasive procedures will be random but once they find a faster way to do it, I would not be surprised if they became the norm. For us we rarely fly and with the threat of either procedure it will become rarer. I do feel sorry for the TSA employees. I was reading a statement by one that they did not sign on to do these. When he wakes up in the morning the last thing he wants to do is grab a man's butt or feel his genitals.
I think the scanner is dangerous. First of all it is Xray and all those dolts of TSA personnel are standing around with their little blue gloves on and nothing to protect themselves or waiting passengers from radiation. My dentist only takes dental films once a year unless there is something of an emergency. These TSA people will not let the machines be checked for the amount of radiation being emitted and how in heavens name do we trust that they know what they are doing. Trust them? not me... And the little blue gloves...cross contamination from one passenger to another even as things have been...they go through your things and if you have a dog and I am allergic to dogs and get the dander on my things then I have problems.. This groping is another thing that is a clear violation..I was a rape victim too and I won't tolerate it. There is no excuse for this kind of behaviour. How do we know these TSA folks are not going to pass something on to the passengers? Where is the proof they are HIV negative? There is far too much that that is not known. These loons in the govt have shot from the hip without thinking things through and since it this has just all hit the fans within the past 3 weeks I would suspect that our defeated House is using this along with senior govt officials blessings as a get even with the American public. I am more than a little incensed that after 30 years of military service that I am now treated like a common criminal who is intent on blowing up an airplane or causing havoc at the airport. Our govt is not proactive to the threat of terrorism it is reactive and the more of us who just roll over for this are showing how willing we are to lose our 4th Amendment Rights and with that sheep to the slaughter mentality, we will lose more and more of our freedoms and I dare say it won't be left to how we fly..it well may involve how our LOs are cared for (or not) in the not too distant future. I do not trust our government. Stay alert, stay alive and stay free.
I feel that our days of traveling by air are past. There is not only the problem of the searches, but also what happens if we would have to be separated for them--my husband would be lost and if I were detained for a search, he would be gone by the time I were done. Then what happens?
My daughter flies every week. Last week she passed through the scanner with no alarms going off. She was forced to submit it a very intimate pat down. When she asked what they were looking for the response was-I don't really know. She then asked-how will you know if you find it. No answer. My daughter feels very violated.
I just bought a pair of blue gloves, and will be patting down female travelers in the airport parking garage, to make sure they can make it thru the scanner...The job does not pay too well, but the fringe benefits are incredible.......
I do not want to offend anyone, who may not think this e-mail was amusing, but if you are interested, check out the jokes thread for a solution to full body scanners.
Mimi - you brought up a good point on the gloves. I am sure they do not change gloves from person to person. What is that person they pat down has a cold or the flu, has been coughing all over their clothes or wiping their hands on their clothes. then they pass it on to the next person clothes - of course you are getting on a plane with recirculated air.
As for the body scan, they keep them in a file from what I hear. And last week a person with defects was laughed at by others watching. they say all these incidents are a few in many but just one humiliation is one too many.
I did hear today on a talk show that the first week they found 6 guns, 4 unnamed dangerous objects and a few other things that did not get picked up by the metal detectors. I know in June when we flew back to my FIL's funeral they used the wand on me because I had a bulky sweatshirt on. I kind of did a Monk and she was not too amused (if you ever watched the show he moved and bent as the wand went around him.
I set off the standard scanners because I have knee replacements, so I always have to be scanned with the wand and have had some patting by hand wherever the wand beeps. Does this mean that I will always have to have the full pat-down from now on? If so, that is clear discrimination based on a medical condition. I'm not particularly worried about the new scanners, but I will not tolerate the pat-down. I may also not be flying again unless the rules are changed.
The issue of being separated from our spouses is very real to me. The last couple of times we have flown, he has gotten confused at security. They take me aside to scan, and he is left to deal with everything we have put through the baggage scanner. Both times he thought something was lost and wasn't sure what he was supposed to be doing. Flying has really become a hassle.
My DH has had two hip replacements and has had to have the wand treatment ever since. I have managed to get through the screening ( the old kind) and then get to the area where he is but that was before the DX. We have not gone in the airports since. Where we live, our TSA folks are very helpful but of course our airport is not a major hub. How well it would go in LA or at Dulles is anyone's guess. I still contend they have not thought through how this is going to affect persons with disabilities and the caregivers. We have no plans for air travel in the near future and I won't until things are cleared up.
We just came through Tampa and the TSA agents couldn't have been more helpful. My DH has two knee replacements and always set off the alarm. I stayed ahead of him and told each agent I passed about my DH behind me who has AZ and would not understand being singled out for pat down. He would have accepted the wand because that's always been the case in the past. He did get a little agitated when they took him out of line but then two male agents went with us two a private area and let me stay with him and explain what was happening, how it's the new rule and if he stayed calm it would soon be over. He wasn't happy but we came home without incident. I thanked the agents for being so understanding.
bluedaze* my daughter was also patted down after not having set off the alarm. They told her that they do random screening.
Joan1012, If one has gone through that invasive, reveal everything xray there should be no need for an invasive pat down random or not. I just think these people in the larger hubs are pushing the envelope. Here in our airport, which is a small airport compared to LAX or Dulles or IHD, the agents are helpful and patient.
This morning I was watching a newscast on how they handle it in Israel. There they have trained people who question you. they profile people who are given numbers from 1-6. Depending on your number will determine how extensive the security on you is. The reporter was a 3 which he said meant he could carry on as much liquids as he wants to. I think the US needs to look at that and not be so politically correct - profile passengers. Maybe someone here has traveled through Israel security and can tell more. From all reports they have no problem with profiling people - security is more important to them.
Charlotte, according to a report on CNN tonight, the population of Israel is equal to the population of upper New York state. The number of people who fly in the United States in one day is equal to the entire population of Israel. To do such complete profiling of all those who fly here, would be very difficult.
But there has to be something better than what they are doing now.
Clare, I'm not sure that kids under 12 aren't being patted down. I've seen even younger ones being patted down on television, but I know I can't believe all I see there.
I think if I was traveling with my husband I would request wheel chair and maybe that would avoid problems and/or carry a notice from his doctor about confusion if he were to be seperated from me.
In the past being in a wheel chair was no guarantee you would not be searched. Their reasoning is that a terrorist can be in a wheel chair too. As mentioned above - in the case of taking someone on a plane who is ill like our spouses, it may depend on the size of the airport and where it is located in the country as to how it will be treated. I am hoping after the holidays the TSA, FBI, CIA, and whoever else will get together and figure how a way that does not make us all feel like we are guilty before found innocent.
I've been reading some of the news articles and gleaning stories from others about this. My niece flies often and said it's not that big a deal. My Mom flew to San Antonio from Detroit a few months ago and used the Gate to Gate escorting in a wheelchair, She told me to be prepared--they'll want me to stand up so they can check the chair too--when I make a trip in January. I told her fine--they can help. After all it's their chair.
Realistically, we, Americans, were rudely awakened to our vulnerabilty to the terrorist threat and are still finding our way in minimizing that threat, yet trying to preserve our personal liberties. It seems to me a full body scan through clothing (the scan) not in view of the public, would be preferred to the pat down. I don't know how or to what extent the special scanning I'll get will be like. I can report later. I know I'm no threat, but they don't know me. As long as terrorists can devise bombs in underwear, and in printer ink cartridges and in shoes---who knows what else---we need to get over some of our attitudes and look at the bigger picture.
My husband uses a condom catheter and leg bag for travel because of prostate issues. I gather that will mean he has to be patted down. He is early stages enough to understand but he really doesn't like the idea. More broadly, it is interesting to see men suddenly so aware of what it is like to feel violated.
The security check is one of the main reasons I decided not to have dh fly anymore. Departing from Newark in May, he refused to take off his shoes and his jacket. So we just stood there and stood there. Finally I got one of the agents: a woman who looked friendly -- to come over and explain it to him. That did the trick. but I wouldn't bet on being able to do it again. Then an hour into the flight he insisted on getting all our stuff down from the overhead compartments, because he was convinced we were almost there. Never again!
OMG, we are planning a trip at Easter time. I'm not really sure if DH will be able to go. With that TSA stuff I think I'll wait to buy the ticket(s). Our daughter is going with us. If you recall he got lost in the Chicago airiport last year. I was pretty frantic and when he finally showe up he wanted to know where I'd been.
This year with his limitations and me using a white cant, I thought I'd better have our daughter go along with us. How she'll react to the TSA intrusion, I can't tell you.
Yesterday there was an article on doctors speaking out against the pat downs. They were listing all the diseases that can be spread from one person to the next since the TSA agents are not changing gloves after each pat down. STD's and others can survive in the moist warm crouch area, be transferred onto the gloves and then to the next person and on down the line until gloves are changed. Observations were made that showed many agents only changing gloves every 20 travelers or more. I hope they keep talking so something can be done regarding this area.
From Mimi: One thing about trips, especially a trip that involves flying, is the lack of understanding by those who know my DH has ALZ as well as other health issues and yet think that making a trip overseas is just a snap. They have no concept what they are encouraging DH to dwell on with this sort of thing and think I am just being a stick in the mud.
One of my experiences with flying is staff, especially security/check-in, don't have a clue about ALZ and expect hb to do things for himself (like take off shoes), follow instructions through scanner, etc. And they get grumpy if we hold up the line or I step out of line to help. Maybe airlines should provide some in-service training.
We will be giving it another shot in April. Although we're taking the Amtrak to Montana (nice way to travel,) we'll be flying back to Baltimore from Spokane, WA, so we will have security to deal with. It will help that my mom is traveling with us this time, so there are 2 people to help with Jeff.
I recently went thru TSA security, and being unfamiliar with their procedures, I looked for instructions. There are none! I think they assume that passengers are familiar with the process, and that they knew what to do, but they get impatient if you hold up the line. I forgot to take off my belt, scrambled to empty all my pockets, and then trying to maneuver my carry on bag, remove my shoes, and I found it to be quite difficult. I can only imagine how it must be with an alz spouse.....I felt so clumsy trying to get all my junk onto the conveyor belt, while watching it disappear as I removed belts, shoes, change, etc....After the scan and pat down, I had to reassemble myself, forgetting my belt, putting on one shoe and hopping to the end of the line, where people were doing the same dances as I, and scrambling to get out of everyone's way. I can just picture having to do this with someone who is far more confused than I was, and someone who cannot understand what is happening. After I passed security, I noticed that my driver's license was "misplaced" (found it in my coat pocket, my boarding pass had been stuffed into my shoes, my carry on bag was left standing near the conveyor belt, and I had this tray with totally unfamiliar items....Luckily I was able to trade them in since someone had picked up my tray in error. Can you imagine an AD person doing all this....OVERWHELMING FOR THEM!!! Yet, the security guards are urging you forward....move along.....
Phranque, thank you. We can always count on you to add a bit of humor (or more) to our problems. Maybe not always make them more bearable, but always bring a smile or guffaw and lifts the mood a bit.
from experience i would strongly suggest you have a drs note stating dementia and that you should be allowed to stay with your spouse thru check points. remember they can get aggressive with unknown persons getting too close or talking loudly to them. the last trip we had before all this new fangled security was bad enough. i begged the agent to allow me to stay in the cubicle with DH as he has knee replacement as well which sets off alarms. DH couldnt follow directions and with the long lines the agent was a tad intolerant. things escalated and DH became a bit aggressive grabbing his arm and wand. they called in another security officer and it was hell trying to get him thru after that and redressed. if you have a dr letter at least it may save you from further security complications if they get aggressive or uncooperative. i also never traveled again after that. i was afraid they would detain him for disorderly conduct or worse. this is where having a disease doesnt always get you off with the laws . i was always worried DH would decide to urinate somewhere in public and we know what kind of horrible consequences that could bring.. i am relieved i dont have to think of that anymore.
The thing is, that this time Phranque's humor isn't even a satire. That's EXACTLY what it's like. I have managed the last time or two with Jeff by having him take off his shoes and wallet before we even get close to the scanner belt. Meanwhile, I am holding his i.d. and boarding pass and arranging our items into bins. But it is a confusing scramble, and if they decide to examine either of us in detail...well, we'll see.
I do have a card that I hold up before he goes through the beep-gate that says, in large print, that he has Alzheimer's. It is one of the "official" TSA cards which you can download and print, then write in the medical condition.
This time, Emily, you are very right....this was a true story...Now, there is a logical order that you must do things, and if you miss a step, then you face becoming disoriented...for example, my biggest problem was removing my belt first....Now, I am holding my pants, while trying to load my bags, remove change, turn off cellphones, remove shoes, trying to remember where my id went, etc etc, and I felt that one hand was tied behind my back, while other passengers were gently crowding me towards the conveyor belt....I was a bit rattled because I was not in control, and was scrambling to hang on to all my junk, and one hand was entrapped in trying to maintain my dignity.
Before you get to the conveyor belt, one should know that they will not need identification anylonger..so put that in your wallet or handbag. We can step back until we are ready to step up to the conveyor belt and take that time to remove belts, shoes and reorganize wallets. What so many of us do is stay in the direct line and it does move quickly. No one minds letting you back in when you are ready to proceed on. Take a deep breath and do what has to be done. It only takes ONE bad guy to ruin the flight for everyone. Remember 9-11 and remember WHY this procedure has to be done. I flew in and out of Houston Texas (one of teh nations busiest airports) this past week and I did exactly what I suggested. I had my ID back in my wallet, my wallet was in my handbag, my shoes were off and all I had to do at the conveyor belt was remove my laptop from my carryon baggage. I was through the screener before my items came out of the xray and was there to receive them. I replaced my computer in my carry on bag, grabbed my shoes and handbag and walked to a chair about 4 steps away and put my shoes on there. I hate the lines and the delay in getting to my gate, but I hate the thought even more that it took only one or two crazy men to board an airliner with box cutters in their possession and eventually bring down the World Trade Center.
The LAST time we traveled by air we got the new scanners and no pat down so it was a "breeze". But as usual, like Phranque , I had to juggle my DH's I.D., boarding pass, as well as my own, a laptop, carryon, and purse. Then I have to get DH's shoes, jacket and belt off, all the while he is asking why. Then it's my shoes, jacket and "sorry sir - I forgot to take the laptop out of the case" - because I really didn't have anything else to worry about! Then, with the old scanners, I would get hauled in to be wanded while my DH is left on his own to gather all the above and get his shoes on - HE usually is still standing there staring at all the things in front of him and wondering what he is supposed to do. (I must say I have been blessed with understanding TSA agents who will let me keep an eye on him while they are wanding me.) Then I have to get him back into belt, shoes and jacket as well as myself, hunt for his ID and boarding pass which he has stuffed in the first thing he saw, gather up my carryon, purse and laptop and then we're ready to go. Onto the next fun time.....bathrooms!
Recently had my first longer respite--5 days and went AWAY. First time flying (both ways) in a Big plane. 2 sisters took me to airport and through security. I was in a wheelchair. I was asked if I could remove my shoes. I said i could not but they could do so if they neededit. They left them on and wiped them with a pad which was then tested for chemicals. Very lightly patted down; not invasive at all. They checked their chair too. One sistr went through just fine. The other forgot to remove her belt. Had to step out and remove it, then the TSA agent had to check her entire waistband area. When my sister started to raise her untucked shirt to mak it easier, the agent hastily said please don't--not necessary.
On return, the skycap put my carry on and crutches in a bin on the conveyor along with his belt, hat, shoes etc. While they took me over and patted me down (slightly more firmly than on outbound trip), wiped my shoes, checked chair, etc, he collected his stuff and mine, and we proceeded. When I arrived home, my sisters had gotten Gate passes and met me as I deplaned. The one who'd had the glitch with the belt, wore sweats--no problem. The other forgot to mention her mastectomy prosthesis, so a quick pat down by a female agent, juist to veriify there's nothing unacceptable. No obnoxious or invasive behavior.
The agents we encuntered were very mannerly, explained what they needed to do, how, and which areas were to be checked as the proceeded. They were intent onndoing ther job but also not to inconvenience us any more than they could help.
Phranque - going through security reminds me of going to the grocery store now: they rush ya through. You are being pushed away from the checkout - before you even get your money or wallet put away they are checking the next person and that person wants your space. I often have to stop at an empty check stand to put things away. Walmart, even though I shop there for certain things, are one of the worst. have not even got all our bags off their circular stand when they are busy with the next person. We were at Safeway, of all stores, in Parker last week. The cashier actually asked me if I needed help taking the groceries out. (remember the days when the stores not only bagged them for you, but took them to your car and/or they had a drive-up to go through so you didn't have to do it in the rain.)
That is how I feel when going through airport security. When we flew last June I also had to contend with taking my hb's CPAP out, then packing it back, my computer away, help him with all the junk from his pockets, (he didn't have to remove his belt), the carry ons, etc.).
Next time Phranque - wear a dress and you won't have to deal with so many clothes!!
No dress...but a purse would have been great.....I was caught offguard, and forgot about all the new procedures...also, there were no instructions anywhere....I was like a cow being led thru the corral, and I could not MOOOOO...Next time, my belt comes off last.
Charlotte, I was thinking maybe jammies and bunny slippers would make things quicker at TSA. I hate the whole mess. And the kids want me to brind DH to Iceland in June for a grandson's confirmation..that means going cross country then on a foreign carrier...Right now DH can follow directions but is VERY SLOW at it and needs to sit down. In a few more months who knows? I will probably go alone if I go at all. Would love to and stay the whole summer...love those long arctic circle days of summer.
I take several small plastic bags with me in my purse. When we are in the line, just before the screening, I hand a bag to my dh and tell him to put keys, change and everything from his pocket in the bag. The bag is big enough for his wallet too.
We have never been asked for him to take the items out of the bag. This makes it so much easier for him and for me.
I go in front of him so I can watch him while he goes through and help him with the instructions.
We flew last week. In the past, I have put my shoes, jacket, carry-on, etc. on the conveyer belt and then helped DH with his. A problem has arisen when we walked through the scanner. I have knee replacements, so I am always directed to the cubicle to be checked further. DH has gone back to the conveyer to deal with all of our "stuff" and gotten confused. He has picked up the stuff from his pockets and put it away, then put on his belt, then his shoes, and so on, all while standing next to the conveyer belt. He has not know what was mine, so ended up not sure what to do. While he was doing all this, he was holding up the line.
This time, when we showed our id I told the TSA agent that I had knee replacements and my husband had AD and got confused while trying to retrieve things from the conveyer belt while I was in the cubicle. We flew out of a small airport and the agent asked one of the other agents to help DH. He did, signaling me to ask what belonged to us, combining it into the fewest number of tubs possible, and keeping DH out of the way of others. He was very discreet about this. I don't think DH knew it was happening.
When we returned home, we went through security at a larger airport. As soon as I told the agent about the situation, he said, "so you can't be separated." He informed the other agents who picked up all of our belongings and took them to a table at the back of the room. A woman agent patted me down back by the table rather than taking me into the cubicle, and DH stood there and picked up his belongings. Obviously this wouldn't have worked if DH had been further along in the disease, but it worked for us.
By the way, Charlotte, after the pat-down at both airports, the agent said she had to scan her gloves before I could leave. I supposed this was to see if she had picked up any chemicals from my clothes. She walked over to the scanner, checked her gloves, and then took them off and threw them away. They couldn't check for materials on the gloves if they didn't change between travelers.
I too recently went through the scanners with my brand-new knee replacement. One time I had the x-ray, the other it was broken so I had to be taken to the side and patted down. The agent got brand new gloves from the box, used them on me, and threw them out. I was watching. It annoying but not terrible.
Just for future info. A link to the PDF file for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security notification card for those with a disability,medical condition, or medical device that might affect the screening is:
I used that card last time. I don't really know what one SHOULD do with it, but what I did was hold it up for the TSA guy just as Jeff was about to walk through the scanner. He just nodded.