My hubby and I have put all the legal issues into play but I don't know when or how to become his guardian and legally take over all the assets and his health care. Basically, I'm doing that now, but I think I need to transfer assets while he's still able to say "yes", am I not. I just don't know when doing those things are appropriate.
mothert, now is the time to be his DPOA, if well written will give you the legal ability to take over his finances and health care. He should also have signed an advance health care directive which will give you legal rights to make decisions he wants. If you need to make asset transfers, do it now. Guardianship is a legal proceeding with the courts and is more restrictive than being a DPOA. The sooner the better because there is a 5 year look back period should he go on medicare.
Usually DPOA's are effective immediately - unless otherwise written into the document. Read it and see what it says. By his signing it originally, he agrees to it - UNLESS there is something else written in it.
In our case, the minute he signed the original DPOA giving me the right to act in his behalf, I could do so. However, as long as he could sign his name and understand what we were doing, I let him,...for his own self esteem. At the same time, when I made bank deposits, I'd endorse the checks rather than involve him in that...(too many questions: what is this for, where did it come from, what are you going to do with it, etc. etc.)... When we sold a rent house that we owned jointly, however, HE signed the paperwork alongside me.. because I had to take him with me to the closing. He didn't read the documents, he'd just sign next to the arrow and it went smoothly.
He was so easy in this regard. He always handled all the bill paying, investments, banking, etc., and it could have been really difficult. Again, I did it gradually. Early years, I'd make out the checks, addresss the envelopes and then he'd just sign the checks and together we'd put them into envelopes and stamp them. Later, I began paying bills on my computer with our bank's on-line banking, so he didn't see that "take-over". He just thought I was on the computer talking to you guys.
I believe the less "talk" about each business transaction you handle, the better, once the DPOA has been signed. I know it's hard to do this, because somehow, we never want to believe they are not "in there" anymore and we sort of need their permission (?) if that is the right word....or perhaps we need them to be in agreement to what we are about to do. Once I got past that it wasn't too hard. nancy
My DPOA for my wife took effect as soon as she signed it. I didn't use it until she couldn't understand what I was doing. Then I transfered ownership of our house from her name to mine and then to a trust for our kids. She didn't have to do anything and it all went smoothly.
We did some things right, like long term care insurance back in 97 but by the time I realized I needed a DPOA, my wife could no longer sign her name. Since all accounts and assets are in both our names, I’ve been able just continue as always with no problems. But now that I need to make decisions and sign documents for my wife, I had to apply for Guardianship and Conservatorship for her. This turned out to be a very straight forward process but very time consuming and hard on my wife and very expensive. So I’ve designated my daughter to be my agent for DPOA and Power of Attorney for Health Care for me (In New Mexico the power of attorney does not authorize the agent to make health care decisions for you). So lesson learned, don’t procrastinate like I did, have your spouse sign the appropriate documents when he/she still can understand and are still able to write.
Our DPOA had the option of whether to have it go into affect immediately or wait until he is unable to make any decisions for himself. I asked my DH which one he would prefer and he said to go ahead and have it be aafective immediately. That is why I wanted to do this way before I probably needed to because that way he could have a say in what happens. I also knew that because I was doing everything legally for him anyway like you said you were doing, mothert, that he would care either way, and he didn't.
Our DPOA and his healthcare POA went into effect the minute he signed it. I haven't had to really use it yet, but my insurance agent who carries my husband's annuity has a copy of the DPOA and his doctors all have copies of the Healthcare POA. We had these documents drawn up as soon as he was diagnosed and still able to understand what he was signing.
Like Deb above, we did the DPOA and healthcare paperwork when he could still sign his name and understood what he was signing. We did a set of paperwork for me at the same time with my daughter as my agent just in case.
I've only been in situations where the DPOA was needed since my husband was placed in the hospital. I've faxed it out twice now, once at a bank and once to an insurance company. There are other situations where my husband signed paperwork while he still could do that so that insitutions and vendors could talk to me.
I missed a few of them, but will use the DPOA as needed.
When my husband and I got married we went to the lawyer for wills and she had us do DPOA's also way back then. In South Carolina, you go to court and register the DPOA when the person is no longer competent, which I have not done, either for my husband or for his 99 year old aunt. But I say "I have his (or her) power of attorney" and people will usually work with me. I see registering the DPOA as something I will do when they won't understand the difference. I've taken over everything financial, but both of them can still sign and understand forms if carefully explained.
Pam..I understand what you are saying. I will always remember the time I realized that OMG!!My husband cannot sign his own name! There had been quite a while since he had to sign his name on anything official...and our lives were so quiet and ordinary. Then, we qualified for a Hoveround, which I was sure would enable us to continue to take walks (with him in his electric wheelchair) in our neighborhood in the evening together ... The Hoverround delivery arrived, and the gentleman asked Foster to sign for it. He took the clipboard and looked at the paper.. then looked at me and asked, "What am I supposed to do?" I told him to sign his name by the "x". He looked so confused and asked again, "DO WHAT??"
"Just sign your name", I replied. He pointed the pen toward the paper..and then it fell from his fingers. He shook his head and handed me the clipboard and said "You do it". I told the rep I could do that because I had HIS POWER OF ATTORNEY and would gladly give him a copy. The representative insisted that the Medicare recipient MUST sign for himself. mmm. "Houston! we have a problem!!!"
(Hoverround guy said that Medicare insisted the recipient be able to OPERATE the machine..and that required manual dexterity. Maybe signing one's name is important to prove they could operate the little joystick on the chair..which he COULD do.)
About that time, (Thank you God!) the rep's cellphone rang... He stepped into the foyer to take the call and quickly I signed Foster's name and handed him the clipboard and told him to just HOLD IT ....The guy returned, came over, checked the paperwork DH was holding...and said, "Fine, that ought to do it". That's the day I saw another part of my beloved husband drift away into the deep, dark abyss of Alzheimer's.
If I had it to do over again, as soon as I got Power of Attorney, I would have transferred most of the money in his bank accounts to a separate account earmarked "Ref. X's name" . As it was, my stepchildren took him out of the Care facility to the bank and had him transfer all of his money from all of his accounts into a new account, and I couldn't even pay our bills from it. They then obtained fraudulent power of attorney, and it took me three months and lots of lawyer's fees to get that mess straightened out.
The DPOA is effective as soon as it is signed. You may choose to not exercise it until necessary.
I have run into a couple of situations where I had to sign an affidavit and get it notorized after 2 and 3 years with a couple of companies because they have a time limit on how long they will honor it. With the affadavit, it wasn't too bad but it was one more thing on the list of to do's.
Boy, it's been a while since I've visited this problem. I did run into a problem recently when asking one of DH's insurance companies to take his name off the mailing list and replace it with mine. They insisted on a copy ofa DPOA which sent me back to our legal documents. Our DPOA did take effect immediately upon signing. I did get a letter from DH's neurologist stating he was incompetent to make financial, legal, etc. decisions and I have done absolutely nothing with the letter or DPOA. I wanted to confir with our attorney and have had a hard time getting in touch because of the holidays and I had the wrong email address. It does seem, however, that I can now transfer all things into my name. However, I'm a bit uneasy about doing that as my husband is still very cooperative and can sign his name. His attention span is limited and I don't think he understands for long what was just explained to him. But, I do not want him to feel humiliated. It's so hard to see a man lose so much in such a short time.
Any advice as to how to bring DH into this discussion without too much hassle. Sometimes, like I read above, it's better just to not tell him stuff as he wants to still be in charge even though he cannot. Once this is accomplished what do I do with tax returns, annuities, bank accounts, investment accounts, etc.? Do I send a DPOA to all of them??
Thank you all for all your experience and willingness to share.
We didn't do a DPOA when my DW was able to sign. I am currently working with my attorney to obtain but in KY we have to go to court with a jury trial to find my DW mentally uncapable of making the decision. Then the court will appoint a guardian for my DW? At that point I pititon the court to be the gaurdian. (Sorry about spelling no spell check on Nook reader)
Sometimes when I need to do something that is in our best interest financially (and if I can do it with my signature only) I just do it. Then several weeks later I may say something about it and if he questions what I have done I say..."well, remember we talked about it last week and you agreed"...he then says "I remember no problem"...and it has never been a problem.
Forgot about the IRS. Will have to find out how I handle this. My DH can no longer sign his name but we both have a DPOA. I just had mine changed to have our children make decisions for me since my DH was listed before. I have always handled the money as he was too busy to be able to take the time to do it. It was a real shock when I realized he couldn't sign his name anymore.
how do I get a DPO if my husband is considered incompetent. I do not know what kind of an attorney to get. If he has already been diagnosed with alzheimer's can he sign it if he is able?
Either an elder care lawyer or one who specializes in people with disability if you need to plan finances or get guardianship. I just took over guardianship of my cognitively disabled sister from my mother (who is now in the mild cognitive impairment stage). As we worked through the paperwork we discovered that my sister has a will in place from 30 years ago that she signed herself. I said to the lawyer how could that be, she has always been cognitively disabled, and he said that a lawyer and two witnesses were willing to sign attesting her competence, so it is good. He did say no way would he try to do that in Massachusetts today, when my sister is tested as having an IQ of about 30. Luckily the will fits what we would want.
If you have a lawyer you have used before or who knows your husband, you can use that person for the DPO. That is an easier process than Medicaid planning or guardianship. My understanding that even if a person is already diagnosed with Alzheimer's a lawyer may still feel s/he understands what s/he is signing. It is worth a try, as if you can't get a DPO then your only choice is guardianship, and that is expensive.
there may need to be a witness to the DPOA even if the attorney feels he is ok. thats safer in the long run. an attorney an estate planner or elder law can draw one up for you. as far as IRS yes if they cant sign anymore, then what i did was send the copy of DPOA with the tax returned signed by me for DH. ask an attorney HOW to sign for that legally in your state. i think it can vary per state requirements. i had a very lengthy addition to add when i sign for him as agent and attorney in fact. the IRS had no problem with me signing as long as we send a copy every year.
The Elder attorney my dh and I used for all the necessary things to get our affairs inorder allowed my dh to sign. The attorney called two other attorneys into the room and they talked with him for a little bit and had him explain how he wanted things in our will and then they all agreed he could sign. His signature looked just like when he was well...but, he was not well. I had no problem with him signing. I would guess he probably was in late stage 4 and beginning of stage 5....With my dh once he got through stage 5 it was a rapid down hill slide until he died in Aug. 2012.
When we were just days from getting diagnosis from the neurologist someone mentioned getting wills and power of attorney done before. Examples were given that if we tried to do it after the diagnosis we would have to go to court and he would have to have an advocate. Needless to say we hurridly got it done. I need to use it to do any communication with all medical matters. He has no desire to talk to them, doesn't understand and can't hear. All our drs. offices have a copy on file. When he recently had heart surgery they talked to both of us, but required that I sign or cosigned all papers. I have also opened my own checking account. I keep very little funds in our joint checking. I did this when he could still drive just in case he decided to go to the bank. I am also copayee on his social security. He never took care of money matters, has been told about all this. He is happy just to have cash in his pocket when he needs it. We have very few extra assets so I think this works for us. I feel that I am protecting both of us.
In BC Canada we have to have a POA and a Legal Representation Agreement.
I also sign and do things without him knowing it and when I tell him about it and he questioned it 'I say that is what we talked about and we agreed on'. Another fib in the world of Alz.
I use my POA at the bank, but I have used it more with the medical end of all this. He has had seizures and needed an ambulance to go to the hospital. The first trip I had no POA and they gave him meds that put him into respiratory arrest. Since I had no POA or DNR, they resucitated him. Took care of that immediately after! The second trip I asked what meds they planned on giving him and told them that they were to give him nothing unless I approved first. Made the difference between a week in ICU the first time and going home from the ER the second time.
I have a copy of both our DPOA's, Living Wills, and DNR's in the car glove box, along with various contact information. Good advice on the MC POA. I have that too.
What's a Medicare POA? Is it something special or just another copy of the POA for Medicare?
I'm wondering, if after the events of this past month, I should have the house and all other assets put in my name alone? I can't think of a reason why I actually need to do that, but I have heard from you above that maybe I should do that? Does it make selling the house or any other properties we hold together easier? Just no hassles with both signatures? Dh can still sign his name, he just has a hard time finding the spot to sign, I don't think he sees very well anymore, Agnostosia, I think.
Medicare has a form that your DH would sign authorizing you to obtain medicare info on him. If you don't have that, they can't give you any information. You can get the form on-line, or call them for it.
Also do a Medical Power of Attorney (MPOA) for all medical stuff (I guess it won't cover Medicare itself). I used mine the other day when the doctor's office called, having discovered a UTI and needing to know which pharmacy to send to prescription. I knew they wouldn't tell me anything until I told them they had my MPOA on file in their office. Once they found their copy they were able to tell me the above and for me to give them the necessary information.
Also know each financial institution requires that you and you spouse must sign the financial institutions power of attorney...they will not accept a DPOA no matter how well written. Our credit union, bank and investment firms all required that we sign and notarize their poa forms and would not accept the dpoa we had.
We both have IRAs with Fidelity and they absolutely would not accept a legal, DPOA. It's their policy, does not depend on what state you live in. According to our elder law attorney, most investment firms such as Fidelity, Vanguard, Merril Lynch required their own poa forms to be signed. My sister has accounts with UBS and they also required that we sign their dpoa.
Since I have always been a person who likes to anticipate any type of difficult situation, I insisted that my DH and I create wills, living trusts, DPOA and MPOA way back in 2002. At that time I never dreamed I would need to use the DPOA until we were much older. I was quite happy to have all of that in place when we received DH's diagnosis in July, 2011. Our DPOA's required a doctor's notarized signature regarding incompetence and my DH's neuro was very happy to sign it.
I have since had to revamp my DPOA and MPOA, since DH can no longer make sound decisions for me. I changed all that to my son and daughter, ages 29 and 26. I also have placed our home and an income property into my living trust alone. DH signed those papers a few months ago. I told him it was in case he ever got sued regarding his former engineering work and he accepted that reason. I have my trust set up so that the houses revert to our children in case I die first. I did have a provision included which states that DH can live in our house, if he has enough money to do so (which I doubt he would). I wanted to make sure he doesn't inherit anything so that he can qualify for Medicaid in the future. I did go to an elder law attorney to make all of the above changes.
I do remember that Social Security wouldn't accept the DPOA to apply for disability. I took DH to the local office to do that. I was scared to death because he voiced his opinion that he wasn't disabled. Fortunately after an exam with a psychologist that Soc Sec paid for, he was deemed confused enough to be granted the disability.
Although my DH is still capable of living at home, I know at some point I have to start looking at assisted living for him. I have to be very careful how I spend our money so we won't get penalized when it's time for Medicaid. It gets pretty tricky.
It's sad enough when life is complicated, but the financial turmoil caused by AD really takes the cake, doesn't it!
Yes and no. Transferring it into my name makes it easier for me to make any decisions without his input. Also, if I die before he does, it will be easier for our children to dispose of the properties. However, Medicaid does allow the community spouse to retain a home and one car. Our second home is not exempt and whenever it's sold, I will need to confer with my elder law attorney as to how to handle the proceeds. As I said, it's really confusing. In our particular situation, DH does not have long-term care insurance, and he also was not a vet, so whatever care he needs will be a combination of private pay initially and then Medicaid.
My advice is to consult an elder law attorney. They would know best how to handle your particular situation.
Our Elder attorney placed our second home (which really was my home from a previous marriage) in trust and that protected it from community property as well as being part of our assets.
My husband is not a Vet and we have too many assets to expect Medicaid to pay for anything, so I'm not, just hoping enough is left for me to have a decent life when dh's time on this planet comes to an end. I did almost die first, had a nasty case of Sepsis last summer and landed in the hospital for 4 nights and it took me months to recover all my strength. My friends told me I need a Plan B of how to care for hubby because, as I proved with my own near death experience, I just might go first and then who will care my poor demented hubby? So, I'm going to get on the Medicare DPOA and talk to our elder attorney about the transfer of our assets and Plan B (still haven't done it).
My husband's DPOA became effective the day he signed it even though I have not used the power per say - he is still able. I asked the bank yesterday when we were there have them notarize his signing the deed for the house in MA about it. She said as long as they are joint accounts I don't need it, which they are. I do have a saving just in my name, but he has nothing just in his except Verizon.