I was discussing my situation with a friend yesterday & she posed the question, is it possible to divorce someone once they are unable to understand the papers put before them. Last year when I moved out of our house into a temporary apartment, my husband failed to give the 60 days notice & swore he was right. I was lucky enough to get him to sign off on some papers provided by the apartment complex that he released me from the lease. He couldn't understand why "they" were letting me out of the lease & not him. (Actually, he was letting me out of the lease.) I had to protect my 780 credit score. They eventually took HIM to court, & the judge split it down the middle. I didn't want to be on the lease with him, but it was company policy. This year for the 1st time I filed my income taxes married filing separately. He was upset, but oh well. I was afraid he would screw it up. I had read about the IRS coming after the spouse of someone after the other spouse messed up the taxes.
I see that all of you are staying with your spouses, but I wondered if anyone knew about this. I would never have known that Medicaid could take rental property that I owned had it not been for Jane. If not, I guess I'll have to see an attorney sooner than later.
I think not everyone has stayed with their spouse.Some spouses have gone into care, some separated, and I''m considering having DH stay with his daughter.
Val............ It seems your having a bad day.... We all have those days ya know,, so my suggestion would be to sit back, relax, enjoy a cup of coffee and stay away from that friend........... Dan
Dan, I'm actually having a pretty good day. Don't think you've followed the thread, 1st posting, new, need help, info. If you reference that, maybe you will understand why I'm asking this question.
I completely understand the feeling that you may need to be financially extricated from the decisions made by a spouse in the early stages of the disease--that is, when the person with AD is still capable of acting in a way that could create financial liability.
We sold all 4 rental properties early in '07 when it had become clear that this sort of investing--always his interest, not mine--was not something he could maintain, and all the management hassles were falling in my lap. (Although he still thought of it as something he did.)
Still, for months after, he'd still say that we "needed" to reinvest in real estate, and he'd look through newspaper listings... I did some serious thinking about whether there was a legally feasible means of allowing him to do it and fail utterly while keeping our other assets completely out of the line of fire.
As it turns out though, I would just put off or deflect that line of conversation--by distraction--and it wouldn't come up again for a while. He hasn't brought it up for months.
If he hasn't been diagnosed, he doesn't officially have dementia. If you can't get him to the doctor, there is no way for you to know if he has dementia or not.
Go talk to a lawyer. I have a strange feeling that you have this window of opportunity. Right now everything he has pulled on you can just be explained away as him being a bit weird and hard to live with. If the lawyer thinks you can file, then you can file.
At this point your husband has not been declared as incompetent. You might think he doesn't understand, but legally, he is not yet at that stage. And, in fact, he seems to be signing legal paperwork just fine. Unless you want to contest the sale of the house based on his inability to understand what has been placed in front of him...
Unless your friend is a lawyer, I'd ignore her legal advice. Please note that none of us have given you legal advice. We've suggested that you talk to someone who knows the law.
Not everyone here is sticking it out. Not everyone here or elsewhere should stick it out.
I decided out of love and obligation that i would see my Ad husband thru this disease, we had been married only 5yrs when when he started symptoms. now its been many yrs of caregiving and so i have decided to also pay myself as caregiver to him to give me some spendable cash for a respite or save it for future use. he has a sizeable estate and i figure we'd be paying much more if i put him in a facility, plus he's more comfortable at home and in his environment.this way the anguish of all the duties of caregiving also give me something in return for my benefit. sometimes love and devotion obligation are well and good and should be the first reason to take on this role, but the necessities of living are also a factor. I feel in my case its practical for me to think of myself too. divvi
Val, this question has been raised before. The answer is yes, you can divorce someone who is no longer able to understand legal papers.
You will have your attorney, your spouse will have his own.
If the spouse has been found -- through the courts -- to be mentally incompetent, and probate court has appointed a guardian or conservator, then the guardian/conservator will work with the spouse's attorney to protect his interests.
If he has not been ruled through a court to be mentally incompetent, and does not have a guardian or conservator, but his doctor(s) have determined that he has limited mental capacity AND his attorney raises this issue, then family court will probably appoint what is called a "Guardian ad Litem". The GAL works with the spouse's attorney to interpret what is going on, and help advise him on what to do. The difference between a GAL and a guardian is that the GAL functions ONLY for the purpose and duration of the divorce proceedings. A guardian is a guardian until probate court rules otherwise.
If the spouse has not been ruled mentally incompetent, nor been diagnosed with a disorder that affects his legal judgment, then things move forward as usual.
Your opinion about his competency or lack thereof has no bearing.
I would also note that one of the biggest impacts of the spouse having been diagnosed with a problem that affects his mental capacity -- if his attorney choses to raise the issue -- is that the spouse will not be able to testify on his own behalf. That means that you and your attorney will have touble demanding that he produce documents -- you will have to get information on your spouse's assets, liabilities, and legal dealings from someone other than your spouse, which can be difficult unless there is a conservator of the spouse's estate. It also means that your spouse will be shielded from giving depositions, or testifying in court. This can be a double-edged sword -- he can't be required to give testimony that hurts himself, but he also won't be able to give testimony to refute what you say. So the spouse's attorney has to weigh the pro's and con's of using his mental state as a factor in the proceedings.
(And no, Val, I am NOT considering leaving my dearly beloved husband. We have had almost nineteen years together, all of them good even those with the AD. He has been wonderful to me. I have a commitment to him, and I will care for him as long as there is breath in my body. I've just spent WAY too much time with attorneys of all sorts recently.)
Oh, and one other point. (Half the world responded while I was typing to your original post.)
Given the way you've described your husband, I suspect that any divorce attorney he might retain would begin to suspect he has mental problems. The divorce attorney might be able to force your husband to have a mental evaluation -- there are probably a number of ways to go about this -- so there is always the possibility that your husband's mental status could become an issue after you've started proceedings, even if he hadn't seen a doctor when you started them. I don't know that much about your husband's relatives -- whether there are any who might decide to get involved, either to protect him or to try to get their hands on his assets (he may not have any, but greedy relatives usually will NOT believe that). They might try to get the court to appoint them as conservators, etc.
All of this might slow down the divorce proceedings, and change the way you and your attorney might have originally anticipated that the suit will develop.
But while it may affect the ultimate rulings of the court (spousal support, splitting of assets and liabilities, etc) it will not prevent the case from going forward.
One last thought. See an attorney NOW. Do NOT wait. You don't have to act on his advice right away, but you DO need to know -- FROM THE EXPERTS -- what the issues are AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
You have a sticky problem. A divorce suit will not be straightforward. Pick out an attorney CERTIFIED in family law. Find a really, really good one. It is appalling how much damage a mediocre divorce attorney can do.
Starling, My friend didn't give me legal advice. She just posed the question. Which I didn't have the answer to.
I am learning a lot about attorneys. I didn't know they were certified in anything. My former husband was a board certified nephrologist (kidney doctor) & so I always knew to ask if a physician was board certified.
Thanks for all the input. Sounds like it's best not to make it an issue, to simplify things. Unless, of course, he becomes obvious to all.
I just read my journal that I started in December 07. I have just been making entries as I went along. This is the first time I have read it start to finish. It was a bit emotional, as I remembered the feelings I had with each entry. As I read, I thought, at certain points, how did I get through that?
Now I'm wondering, do I tell an attorney all, (AD) or do I just say I'm not happy anymore. Now I'm nervous about seeing an attorney, because I don't know what to disclose.
To the woman who got an apartment for peace, even though she stayed with her husband. I did that year before last. I got a studio apartment (was working then) within walking distance to my house. I would go over there, put on some music, read a book uninterrupted, meditate, uninterrupted, just veg. It was my only way of being alone. A place to go when arguments started over nothing. I should have used that money to pay down my rental property, but at the time I wasn't even thinking divorce. All I knew was that I need refuge form the storm. I didn't know anything about AD. I didn't understand what was going on. I was dismayed & confused.
Val, get a good (certified) attorney and tell the attorney EVERYTHING. Every last little thing. Everything about your husband's behavior, everything you know about his assets and liabilities, current business, current income, and everything about YOUR assets and liabilities, everything. Prepare a list of all your questions and concerns, and have it with you when you meet with the attorney, so you don't forget anything.
The attorney cannot give you good advice if the attorney doesn't know what's going on.
The very worst thing you can do is to NOT disclose something to your attorney.
Your attorney acts on YOUR behalf and in YOUR best interests. Your attorney isn't going to say ohmigod, she thinks her husband has AD, what a b***h, and turn right around and tell his attorney that -- it does not work that way. S/he (if you find a good attorney) will explain all the different things that must be taken into account, and give you advice on what s/he thinks you should do, but will ultimately expect you to decide whether you wish to follow that advice.
Communications with your attorney are privileged. That means that your attorney CANNOT reveal what you have said, to anyone else, without your express permission. It even means that no one else -- not even the court -- can force your attorney to reveal what has been said between the two of you. (There are certain exceptions to this rule, I think, but they're for things like confessing to murder. And your attorney will warn you not to talk about something if doing so would jeopardize the lawyer/client privilege.)
Your attorney may tell you it would be bad for your case if the possible AD came out in court, but if so, will probably give you advice on what you (s/he) might do to avoid having it come out. Or s/he may say it would be better for it to come out as early as possible in the divorce process, and that your suspicions should be included in one of your earliest filings. WE don't know. You need to ask an expert.
We are trying to help you develop your list of questions and concerns, and figure out what type(s) of attorney(s) you might need. That's it.
We are not attorneys, we don't know all the in's and out's of your particular situation. We can only tell you about problems we've had, or things we've heard about. You need to find out from an attorney whether any of our advice applies to you, and/or is actually something you should consider.
Plus, different states have different laws, and different ways of interpreting them. So something we tell you we ran into in our states may differ significantly from what you'll run into in yours. (Like I said elsewhere, it might even be better for you to move to a state with different laws from those where you live.) You need a lawyer who knows what's going to play a factor where YOU live. (A really good lawyer will also know which judge you're likely to get, how that judge tends to rule on certain issues, etc.)
I just happen to know that you can divorce someone who has been diagnosed with a dementia, and you can even divorce someone who has been ruled mentally incompetent by the courts. YOU have a right to be divorced, that isn't taken away by the illness of your spouse. But it does change how your spouse's rights are protected, since your spouse isn't able to do it for himself.
Anyway, re certification .. attorneys have to pass the bar in the state(s) in which they practice. That just means they can practice law. They may go on to acquire additional (and ongoing) education, and pass additional exams, to be certified in a particular specialty. They do NOT have to be certified in family law to practice family law. In fact, most attorneys are not certified in any specialty, even though they may limit their practice to a specific specialty. But I've been finding out, the hard way, that if you want a good attorney, it's best to identify attorneys with the appropriate certification, and then screen those to find the best of the best.
Addendum to Sunshyne's fine post: Within the past nine months, I've had three different lawyers, all considered to be competent, who let the volatile situation I was in escalate, so that my husband's children got control over his finances. It was a nurse friend who knew a lawyer she respected who then put me in touch with a lawyer who specialized in my particular case. Within 2 weeks, the new lawyer had turned things around, and I now have Power of Attorney back and the $31,000.00 I had had to pay out for bounced cheques. My husband's accountant and I are applying for committeship and will be going to court soon. I conclude that it is like going to a doctor: find out from a doctor friend who is the expert in your special disease and who handles such cases regularly, not every 6 years. Of course, in an ideal world, a lawyer would admit inexperience and lack of expertise and refer you. It cost me $5,000.00 on lawyers fee before I got this new lawyer who knows what she's doing. Please get yourself the best lawyer you can (my new lawyer doesn't charge any more than the mediocre ones), give him/her all the info., everything, keep them informed, ask questions until you're clear on what's what. Just as an aside, my husband's children got a lawyer to fight my application for committeship, but they didn't give her all the facts, which put her in a bad situation, something no lawyer likes. It now appears that they are not going to contest our application.
Val, i agree that you absolutely must disclose the AD to your atty. married to an atty i witnessed numbers of lost cases due to client withholding vital facts. There are all kind of sticky situations that could arise from nondisclosure i am sure your atty will advise you on that, but take heed as well if you do disclose, i would think the atty would be obligated to have a court mandate a competency hearing to see like Starling? said a guardian appointed first to be able to iniciate proceedings. i think also the probate court has to approve that the guardian can represent the incompent person and then they in turn another 'lidem' for his interest in court or something to the effect. this can become VERY expensive with having competency ordered hearings, ie mental evaluations, mental experts, etc, then all the attys fees court cost involved. if all he has now is the sale of the house, he would have to pay from that too all his portions of expenses and you your end i would guess. that could mean money you now have between you could be eaten up in fees just to divorce. on the other hand, if you wouldnt disclose and proceed without really knowing about the AD, what would happen after you divorced and then the legality was challenged due to him not being properly evaluated beforehand? maybe i am being the devils advocate, but if you are even thinking seriously about divorce, you should get attys advise before you mention anything..your particular case has had us all thinking about the ifs/buts...i do hope it works out for you for your best interests, take care, divvi
What a group of articulate, informed, thinking. caring people! I am soaking up all like a sponge. You must have learned a lot from each other. I've only been on this site several days, but what a difference in my life it has made. I sort of feel somewhat like the outsider, since most others are talking about how to care for their spouses. But I have been told I can be honest here, & that's what I've done. I guess it's easier to be honest here than with people in my life. At this point, what do I have to lose? No one so far has judged me, to my surprise.
Val, that's the entire point of this site. We don't judge each other. We all understand that each relationship is different, each ADLO is different, each situation is different ... but no matter what, trying to care for any AD spouse is extremely difficult, no matter how much s/he is loved. None of us can really know where you are. We can only try to help.
Probate court and family court are two very different things. A family court attorney is not required to notify anyone that a spouse suspects dementia. In fact, many people have probably tried to scream at the top of their lungs that their spouse is mentally incompetent, and been shot down for "badmouthing" the one they're trying to divorce. Your spouse's attorney will have to figure out if that is an issue, and then, what type of issue it might be and whether or not to try to force a diagnosis. Even with a diagnosis, the court may have a great deal of trouble trying to figure out whether the spouse is impaired to the point he cannot represent himself in the proceedings and, even if THAT is determined, when the spouse actually became impaired to that level.
I think it highly unlikely you could go al the way through a divorce and then have the mental health situation revisited after the fact. AD does not follow any set course, or progress at any given rate. Even if the spouse is subsequently diagnosed, there is no way for a court to determine the level of impairment that was present during the divorce.
Bottom line, the divorce itself would certainly stand. IF any of the rulings were re-evaluated, the only thing that might change is the level of spousal support in the future.
But again, these are things to discuss with a qualified attorney who practices in your state.
Definitely disclose absolutely everything. If there is a problem, your attorney will tell you, and help you figure out your best course of action.
Frankly, I would be more concerned about your potential liabilities for your husband's debts and contractual agreements, than what would happen if someone raised the issue of potential dementia in court.
And you may finally decide that a formal separation, which is NOT taken all the way to divorce, is your best option. That might limit your liability and preserve your own assets better than a divorce. These things are not cut-and-dried. That's why you need a highly-qualified attorney.
As far as talking exclusively about caring for our spouses, I think you'll find that many of our posts are targeted at taking care of the caregiver. This awful disease can claim many victims, besides the ADLO himself, if we're not careful. I haven't had to worry about aggression yet, I am SO lucky so far, but it is sooooo painful and scary to read the posts from spouses who care deeply for their LOs, yet have to worry about being physically harmed, possibly even killed in a moment of AD rage. I don't know what I would do, how I would handle it, if my husband turned on me. I don't ever want to have to find out.
Things change when the "healthy" spouse has to worry about personal safety, or being financially devastated. I think we all understand that. I think we all realize our own situations and feelings and priorities could change in a heartbeat if our LO's dementia symptoms change.
I love you all. It's like angels are watching over me. For so many people to take the time to write so much in so much detail, I just can't express what it has meant to me. What about the people who don't have computers. How alone they must feel. I don't think a weekly support group can compare to this.
I completely agree with you, Val. I'm new here, too, and really REALLY have learned from reading all this site has to offer.
I think it is so important that we are SPOUSES, not sibs or progeny. And that we don't judge. I've visited and joined many groups over many years, and this one is so comfortable. No ranting or rivalry. Just understanding. Thank you, guys.
I reread what Sunshyne said about being concerned about my husband's liabilities. Last night I called his only credit card FOR THE FIRST TIME & to my shock he has a balance of $23,500! His credit limit is $25,000.
I did this because night before last he asked me to take out a home equity loan on MY house to pay the property taxes of $3,800 on HIS house (the one we live in & have a pending contract on.) I told him no.
So today I asked him what happened to HIS equity line, and he told me he'd maxed it out at 10k. In the old days, when we had an "estate" he would pay off the credit card each month.
Big fiasco with the home inspection. Found all sorts of things wrong. Today he fixed the shaky banister leading to the 2nd floor. That's AFTER 2 inspections have mentioned it. He "doens't know" why he didn't fix it before. Keep in mind, he's a licensed home inspector. I suspect he started doing that last year after blowing all the money on the stock market. I think this buyer may back out, "too many problems," according to the buyer's agent. So, even with a cash allowance for all wrong, the buyer may back out. Dejavu, this happened last year. My husband is writing a response to the inspection report & we've had 3 chimney guys here today to give estimates to line & repair the chimney (which was also listed in the previous inspection where the 1st buyer backed out the day before closing due to the problems & the chimney.) He told me he had repaired the chimney.
I know, I know, go pronto to an attorney. I am just trying to see if the sale goes through & I will have to move to yet another apartment quickly. My mind is going in many directions. I guess my question is, if anyone knows, am I responsible for my husband's debts?
(Also needed to vent.) I feel like I am having an out of body experience looking down on my life.
Venting is fine, Val, and we'll all listen as long as you need to ... but wouldja pleeeeaaassseee go talk to an attorney? Yesterday if not sooner. Do not wait for this, do not wait for that.
I understand that you are under so much stress that going to an attorney is harder than hard, and you're coming up with every excuse you can think of to put it off. I do that myself. It's the wrong thing to do.
Yes, under many circumstances, you may indeed be responsible for your husband's debts. You need to take legal steps to minimize your liability RIGHT NOW.
I just found a great site on divorce in VA. It tells you just about everything. What I'm hoping is that the sale of the house will go through, he will then pay off his debts, he will then pay me the agreed upon $12,000 upon the sale of the house. In VA you must be separated (living in separate residences) or in rare instances, not have had marital relations for 6 months living under the same roof. If the sale of the house falls through, I need to have a job in order to live under a separate roof. I see I may be responsible in part for his credit card bill, even though it is in his name only. Just hoping the sale goes through. Will know in a day or 2, hopefully.
Val, you are not dealing with a man who can reason. Do not place your faith in hope. It can get so much worse than you even dream of. You have nothing to lose by going to attorney now, and everything to gain. You could find yourself in such deep doodoo if you wait for the good tooth fairy.
My God, I just had to try to save the sale of the house. My husband couldn't understand what the realtor was saying (I could tell) & told the realtor it was no deal. I got on the phone with the realtor, told him my husband (after I explained it to him in other words) had agreed to the terms. He's now contacting the buyer. Hopefully this will go through. I told him I should be handling all this. To ruin 2 closings over the inspection! I am seeing he is more confused than I had imagined. All the buyer was asking was to be credited at closing for the repairs the inspector noted. My husband couldn't understand this & said, he never said THAT to me. I told him he didn't listen. All this is causing so much comotion in MY life, while he is perfectly happy living in a dream world. On some other planet. What stage is this? This is the I'm Living in Hell stage.
Val i agree you should be handling the closing it will be hard to keep your husband quiet during the process most likely as he thinks hes in 'control' and decisonmaking. i also agree you may owe half his bills and i would make sur he paid off any expenses from his share prior to any separation -once you separate a good atty can make sure you arent liable for any debts accrued after you iniciate separation. under no circumstances put a lein for a loan on your home. everyone is telling you to see an atty and dont 'wait' any longer.. and check the mail to see if any other bills are coming you are unaware of..i do know that uncle same doesnt care about excuses, he will get his money one way or the other. if he hasnt paid taxes he may already have a lein on the house and the sale will have to deal with that and deduct those amounts to pay first to make sure the house is free and clear of any leins. i know i had to do this myself with a bldg i sold for my husband he had some judgement for 200dol! out there that impeded sale til cleared up..ask the agent if all is clear on the deeds, loans, taxes on the house..divvi
House sale fell through, due to the inspection report. Here we go again. At least this time I didn't move into an apartment to accomodate the buyer. Now I see it's catch 22. He can't pay for the repairs, won't take the house off the market, but the next buyer will have the same inspection report. ? We have people trouping through here all the time. I just need to get any job, just to get out of the house, even if it won't put a roof over my head. Kind of hard to start over at 58. This is a nightmare, please let me wake up.
Val, sorry to read all your problems. You seem to have more than most. As has been said many times before - GET A LAWYER NOW!!!!!! A lawyer could also help you with the house sale.
Geez, I thought I was in the early stage & now I hear I'm having more problems than most. Don't know what to get, elder or divorce lawyer. I'm ready. I need to get out, there's no estate left, so I can't figure what an elder attorney can do for me, other than understand AD.
Val Marsh gave good advice if you have issues with the home then have a real estate atty do your closing for you if possible? he could oversee the sale and help you advise you and husband. i did this when we wanted to sell a property 'as is' and not have any legal percussions later on. maybe you need to sell the house 'as is' and just take a lesser amount if possible to finalize a sale. divvi
The house was "as is", but he didn't put a disclaimer that the inspection was for informational purposes only. It is for sale by AD owner, who had paid someone $299 to put it in multiple listings, even though a very good friend of mine, tops in real estate, offered a friendship deal for 1% to list it. He had a real estate attorney lined up for the closing, but I guess there's never going to be one.
Still need to know, do I need an elder attorney or a divorce attorney?
Here in Canada you would need an estate lawyer who would also advise you about legally dealing with a husband who does not seem capable of handling financial decisions. You need to be in charge, at least of your own financial state..
Wish I were in Canada. I lived in Berlin for 6 years & the medical system was great! Everyone in America thinks that "universal health care" means you have to sit in some clinic & wait, with no choices of doctors. I never received a bill, could change doctors at any time, had absolutely great health care. The MDs have such a strong lobbying group, they've scared everyone out of their wits. When I left Berlin, I was going to move to Montreal, just to avoid the American health system, (my former dr. husband tried to start a union for dr.s! We were polar opposites), looked for a place, but it was when they changed all the signs into French, all the schools into mother tongue French, etc. I had just put my son through an international school where he was taught half classes in German, half in English, so I couldn't do it to him. Hence, I'm back in America with this screwed up health care system. We are the only country in the Western world not to have universal health care. People have to go bankrupt due to medical bills. Don't get me started on that one.
Val, As you said, “I am seeing he is more confused than I had imagined.” This seems to be a common complaint from family members. Even spouses who have been married for decades have this complaint.
On another thread, you mentioned considering going off meds due to weight gain and were reconsidering that in light of what you are dealing with. I have personal and lots of family experience with depression and anxiety. And this was way before we were dealing with AD. You mentioned not being able to deal with all these problems, and not knowing what sort of attorney you should talk to. This is one of those decisions that has grown out of proportion due to the depression and anxiety you are dealing with. Perhaps you should not only continue on those meds, but see your doctor immediately about increasing and/or changing some meds. You not only have to deal with this stuff now, but you will also have to deal with so much more as time goes on. And you will have to make these decisions not only without your husbands help and support, but in spite of any protests he makes. Whether you leave this marriage or not. Whether there is any money left or not.
I don’t think the type of attorney matters-go see one immediately. A good resource is your local Alzheimer’s office. They will have a list of attorneys. Call one. NOW! Explain the urgency to the person that answers the phone. If they can’t see you immediately, call the next person. And the next one if necessary. My experience (see Internet Scam) is that they are not unfamiliar with urgent situations when it comes to AD (or marriage for that part). As you have found out with the credit card and line of equity, the situation always seems to be different than you expected. With AD, the situation is different and worse.
So, my thoughts, based on personal experience: Call your doctor for new script, appt., or both. Call Alzheimer’s Assoc local office, or visit. Vent, get list of resources, and phone. CALL attorney at top of list. ASAP.
Pat, You are the umptenth person to recommend seeing an attorney. Don't think I've heard from you before. If my husband is out of the house tomorrow, I will make an appointment. I couldn't make calls with him in the house these past few days, with so many people coming in to make estimates on repairs. O.K. I get the message. My problem is, a year ago I could have been self supporting. Now, I have no job, & how can I file for divorce with no income? How can I leave with no income? Seems like putting the cart before the horse, whatever the saying is. Seems like I need to get back on my feet independently, THEN plan on another life. But if I can get a consult, I will. I am surrounded by so much negative energy, seems to affecting my job search. I would never have quit my job, had I thought I was facing this. I thought I was just working to have my personal money & to pay down my rental property. Like I didn't really "have" to work. Surprise!
If I can find a moment alone tomorrow, I'll call the ALZ. ASS. for a reference. I know now to find someone certified. I don't see any choice but to leave the marriage. I can't lose my house to Medicaid, thanks to Jane I know that is a reality. I have read how others are living, devoted as they are, suffering so much. Our main issue was always affection. He never touched me unless it was sex. So we were going downhill before this hit. I begged for affection. I'm attractive & affectionate. He has never kissed me when I came home, never gives hugs, etc. I was already feeling deprived. I worked on that issue for 2 years to no avail. So now I have no affection, don't want sex with him, have lost respect, even though it's not his fault. I know a lot of this is the disease, but not the affection part. It's just not in him.
I don't want to be a "chronic complainer." That's just not my style. I am usually upbeat & carefree. This whole thing has thrown me. I have to get back to "everything is unfolding as it should, for a reason." Thank you for responding & putting a fire under my *ss.
Val, No, you haven’t heard from me before, but I’ve been reading and sending my best wishes from afar. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this dratted disease and the problems it causes. And, no, you aren’t complaining, you are sad, lonely, and desperate. Fortunately, the kind folks here can understand that only too well and we understand.
It seems to me that with this disease there are the things we know about and the things we don’t yet know about. And, they are never good things. Regardless of whatever you do, you will need to see an attorney at some point. Hindsight is wonderful, but not a luxury you can afford with AD.
As for making a phone call when you get a chance, with dementia you have to make things happen, not wait for the right time. You don’t have that luxury. Don’t worry about a reason to leave and make a phone call. Just do it. If you don’t have a cell phone, that should be on your list. Trust me, you need a phone number to use that DH won’t answer. And, I’d recommend you carry the cell phone on you at all times.
As for affection, sex and physical stuff, check the thread “Sexuality”. Not sure I remember what that stuff is, but it sounds vaguely familiar.
I’ve been to court (last month) and had my husband declared legally “incompetent”. And, it involved attorneys and money. I didn’t want to deal with it and it was hard. But I had to do it to protect my husband and whatever funds we have together. No, I didn’t know he was that "confused”, or that we would have to face something like this so soon. And, when I found out about the problems, it had to be dealt with immediately. And it was worse than I could have anticipated.
But, fortunately, thanks to Joan, we have this site. So we can moan and groan and others with understand. And kick us in the butt.
Finally called his brother, only living relative. He is socially inadequate? But took my call seriously. He said I needed to contact an attorney! Ha. And he is coming to Richmond for an intervention. Didn't know that was in his vocabulary. He thinks I should go to court & get my husband declared mentally incompetant. I was totally taken aback by his response. I think when he heard about the debt, he knew the seriousness of it all. He asked, "you mean he has sqaundered sp? his entire inheritance? YES! So I don't know what will come of this, but I have let it be known to his only living relative.
PatB, talk to me about the cell phone. I have one, but have always used it as an emergency phone. Basically I carry it around with me when I'm out of the house, but it is never turned on.
At this point my husband will only answer the phone if I am not at home.
Please explain why I need one and why? And no, that isn't a weird question. There are times when I am just dense.
Starling, Yes, the emergency use for cell phones is great. But, as DH has changed, I have used the phone much more often. I now give it out as the primary number to banks, drs., attorneys, etc. I can make and receive calls easier. I can go to another room and make a call in private; make one when I go out to get the mail. Less concern about phone messages that are forgotten by DH or not accurately given to me. Or just messages that he might worry about or ask a lot of questions about.
DH has been hospitalized twice in the last two months for med problems. With the cell, I don’t miss any calls from the drs., but I am not tied to the house.
I have gotten in the car to run an errand, driven down the block, and made necessary calls. And, if I fell concerned about his anger or rage (currently under control with meds), I can call whatever help I need, as I remove myself from the situation. Make call to the kids (adults) to update them as needed.
I also have an adult son that live with me and has some heath problems. He can call me, at any time he needs help, or just to warn me about DH’s current problems/frame of mind.
Mostly, if is my phone number, not ours.
Not sure if that answers your questions. If not, let me know.
Pat, you did an outstanding job of explaning the many needs for the cell phone. I use mine the same way. It is ALWAYS with me, except at bedtime when I have it recharging. Mine also has the chaperone feature which allows me to know where my husband is at all times. When my DH was diagnosed, we got both cell phones and he knows that his phone is my lifeline and he never takes it off except bath and bed (when I recharge it). Everyone calls me on my cell instead of our home phone.
ditto on the cell phone-i also would never get messages on home phone etc and DH would even take new 'legal cases' from persons looking to 'retain; his legal skills- yipes, i didnt know this til someone sent their box of legal documents, can you imagine?? wow, it was time to take the phones away and use my cell like others dr/banks anyone of importance calls me on mine and leaves a message. but maybe your DH is far enough along starling that you have made it thru the ruff stuff without it so far and its not as much a necessity as to others-i would be lost without mine at this point and panic. divvi
Actually my husband is at the point right now where if there was going to be rough stuff, it would be now. When it really got rough I let him leave the house and dialed 911 from a land line. All the phones in the house are totally portable and wireless, so if I needed to grab one and go, I could.
I've accepted that he can't take a message for the last year. I did have my cell phone with me when I was planning on calling my daughter away from home. The whole incoming message thing did not occur to me, but needing to go elsewhere to make a phone call has.
In fact he has been upset about incoming phone calls from the police, the assistand district attorney and two phone calls from the Alzheimer's Association all checking up on me to make sure I'm OK. If anything, they have reinforced the idea that I am not as alone and isolated as he might have thought I was in the past. There are people out there who know about me.
The policeman scared him s&@@#&!!! when he arrived here when he tried to drive for the last time. It made such a bit impression that he has actually remembered it.
Thank you for telling me how you use your cell phones. It is filed away in the back of my mind just in case.
Starling, In an emergency, the cell phone is better. He could always unplug the base unit or pickup another extension and talk over you. The fact that you are not alone and isolated would only be helpful if he is cognitively ok, otherwise he might not make the connections to the calls and how that relates to you not being alone, and he shouldn't hurt you. And he might connect the dots today, but not tomorrow. My DH of 36 years has never even raised a hand to me until the last year. I have felt at risk about twice and shoved once (yes, he was on meds and police were called). If you give out your cell phone number to those people, they can always reach you and vice versa, without upsetting DH. Others have talked of being locked out of the house, or finding spouse doing something to put themselves in danger, etc. My phone is always with me and charges on my nightstand at night. PatB
Val, since you are leaning toward leaving your husband, I believe you need a divorce attorney. No one has raised the issue of your husband's mental status yet except you. Discuss with the divorce attorney whether it would be better for you to raise it now, or not. I suspect the answer will be "not".
An elder law attorney would be better if you intended to stick with your husband and be his primary caregiver, and needed advice on how to gain control of your husband's financial and legal matters, where to get financial aid for him, etc.
Talk with the divorce attorney about how you go about separating when you have no money. This will hardly be the first time s/he has addressed this issue.
Gee, the Alz Ass. told me that the Elder attorney would advise me if I should see a divorce attorney. I don't want anything from my husband at this point, not that he has anything left but this house. I want his brother to be his primary caretaker. I can't do it & take care of myself. It was such a shock to my system that all of our retirement funds were gone. Maybe the Elder attorney will refer me to a certified family attorney, one who knows about such situations. I have a feeling you're right. Don't raise the issue. Cut my losses & go.
In my experience, you sometimes need to consult more than one attorney to get the full picture. An elder care attorney specializes in elder care law, a divorce attorney in family law. The advice you receive from one may not be the advice you receive from another, simply because they don't have the same training or experience, or view things from the same perspective.
But you've made an appointment, and that's a HUGE step. I know how hard it was for you, and I'm sure you feel much, much better now. It can make all the difference in the world to have someone to hold your hand!
I just talked with my husband's brother. I wanted him to postpone the intervention he had planned until I could speak to an attorney. Well, I needn't have worried. He's gone from, let's get him declared incompetent because he blew his entire inheritence to well, maybe j is just being j. What? I think his wife got to him, she probably doesn't want her husband taking his money to bail his brother out. Last night is was all about let's see what we can do about the $3,800 property taxes so they don't take away his house. Today he had to get off the phone fast. Guess what. As his only next of kin, he will be responsible in the end. HE hasn't blown HIS inheritence. (I really miss spell check) But I guess this is a good thing, because now I can make a decision without his brother's input.
Yes, making that appointment was a HUGE step for me. It seems all to be happening too fast.
So Sunshyne, are you saying I should also consult a family law attorney & not wait for the appt. w/ the elder attorney?
I think if it were me, i 'd go see the certified family law as well. and just see where that goes, of course a free consultation. life others say the elder care would be if you had an estate to consult about and/or monies to sort thru. i hate to say it, but you said it best when you said, 'cut my losses, and run'...this whole scenario will not get any better..with our without AD. with all your financial issues and fustrations OUTSIDE any AD diagnosis =we who are looking in from outside and know what we know about caring for AD loved ones, are telling it strait up. i just cant conceive the idea of caring for AD spouse with NO fiancial assets to fall back on. In our case DH is pretty well off, and its STILL the most challenging thing i am doing in my lifetime and i am mid-50's too. the atty will give you your options. call one today and get informed. divvi