I'VE HAD IT! We've (attorneys and I) have been trying to qualify John for Medicaid...filed back in January. All the crap I've already told you before aside....today is a new one for me. Gotta tell you the truth, I just wanna run away and not tell anyone where I am. SS is telling me I am guilty of FRAUD and MISUSE of FUNDS!! Why? They didn't get the info from the bank about my two (SMALL) checking accounts for the farm and my studio. Have gotten them together today and am somehow missing one month's statement from 2008. I can get that, no big deal. Next, even though I have proof of having payed off the commercial line of credit for my barn, there is no proof of what the line of credit was FOR in the first place. IT WAS FOR THE BUILDING OF THE FACILITY, but there is no proof of that!! S.S. says that it could have been for FURNITURE or a CAR for all they know. JOHN NEVER KEPT ANY RECORDS!!! They're right. How do I prove this???? No idea. Csn't remember the name of the guy that built my barn and even if I can find him, doubt he's kept records of something from eight years ago. I understand I can go to jail, have huge fines to pay. What the hell do I do now? I TOLD John during many many tearful encounters over things he was doing, making me sign, that one day I would be left holding the bag. UNbelievable. (so, NOW ask me why I barely ever visit him.....wonder why.)

OOOH, Thank You! I've looked at EVERYTHING that is printed on paper in this office and know it like the back of my hand at this point. NOTHING IS HERE about the original line of credit application. I will add that to my list of errands to run at the bank tomorrow! EVERY bit of advice or just "what if ya try this" helps at this point.

No, no. I own the land, the house and all the improvements. My father figures into the scheme of things ENORMOUSLY because over the years, he has given me loans, cash, had things built for me (such as my garden house/tool shed, a run-in shed...no dinky things in themselves), negotiated and paid stud fees, purchased vehicles, funded some of my exhibitions, etc. I'm really, truly frightened here. Social Services is VERY intimidating and threatens me with fines and even prison if they can prove fraud here (which they couldn't possibly...and there really is NOTHING!!). They are just finding it hard to believe (like me) that John saved nothing, made no plans. So, they're wondering where'd the money all go??? They really are making this as difficult as they possibly can. My Elder Law attorney says that this is the most difficult Medicaid qualification application he's EVER had......and most likely, the one he's made the most money on! (he didn't SAY that last thing, of course...I just figure its true!). I asked him if I could go on vacation with his family this winter.

Are there any records of the money John shifted off to his kids without your knowledge? Some kind of canceled checks? Can the bank help with this. I seem to recall he had shifted money away from you to his kids out of spite.That could show John's attitude toward you..he is a spiteful, dare I say hateful person relative to you.

Mimi...I know. Nothing makes any sense. The hundreds of thousands he lost day-trading in 2000-2001...S.S. doesn't care about. They arent asking for that far back. BUT, I keep squealing about it. As John was out of my care for a while when he was in Florida, and I don't know how many hands his P.O.A. went through (they were hiding his whereabouts from me pretty well), I have no clue as to what happened to some of his cash. I'm sure he needed SOMETHING to live on then. I know money was deposited into an account that was opened in Richmond...because my daughter tells me she helped him do it before he left for his sister's in FL. Sweet, huh? Turns out, the daughter in L.A. had POA when I found John and brought him home (KNOW that was the right thing to have done...no real regret). Lawyer is trying to contact her but she is hiding behind her "agent" and "manager" there. No one but certain family members and friends can get through to her on her telephone. Best he can do is send a letter. Real mess.

Last night I cleaned out a small drawer at the very top of a High Boy. Found two copies of the small annuity in an envelope marked "to be opened by my children when I die". One copy designated 50/50 to only two of his children. The other copy split it up into three very unequal portions between three of them. I KNOW that I'm the only beneficiary currently and since he has been declared, no one can have him change it again.

If all else fails, can't your attorney SUPOENA your step daughter since he is defending you against a potential law suit. I still don't understand what SS problem is for you. What you had done on YOUR land - owned by you alone - should not be a concern.

Update. My tangle with Social Security to have John qualified for Medicaid gets "curiouser and curiouser". Call from attorney on Thursday evening. There is one large deposit (cashiers check from parents about 2 1/2 yrs ago) that apparently wasn't deposited in ONE lump sum, but into several accounts and some cash back. I don't have records anymore, my attorney and SS has them, so I don't even have anything to reference. This was a formal, no interest loan (have documents) to ME because (at the time when the kids didn't understand thier dad had ALZ, they took him to file for a divorce and closed access to all funds, leaving me with $35) I had nothing to live on for some time. CAN'T ANYONE DO ANY MATH AND PUT THIS TOGETHER JUST USING THE CALENDAR??? In the great scheme of things, does this really matter??? What Island in the Carribbean do I own??? Under what tree is the strongbox buried??? Most likely, I'm told, if I "can't remember and document what I did with that money", John will be denied Medicaid qualification and we'll have to START OVER with an appeals process. WHAT'D I DO WITH IT???? i'VE BEEN PAYING THE FREAKIN BILLS AND TAXES!! I'd rather sell everything and run away, change my name, live as a fugitive, I'm so scared. All I really have is my property, stuff, which I can't EAT or pay bills with. When the G-Men catch up with me, let the gov't feed and house me in prison...and give me that college education...I understand I'd even have cable tv...maybe find true love (just being silly, there). I've been very emotional, lethargic, can barely bring words to mouth. I've no education, future potential of great earning power, can't afford to pay the tens of thousands owed to nursing home, pharmacies, transport companies, his back federal taxes (filed seperately from me one year), no one from his family wants to step up to the bar, either, never an offer.....my job.

Should ANYTHING be THIS difficult? John earned a huge income at one time, but apparently spent, gave away or lost every cent of it over time. Never thought ahead and I swear, I was simply IGNORANT, living in bliss. I know he lost over $700,000 daytrading back in 2000-2001, no one is asking for documents from that far back. That came out of his IRA. Suppose because of his past earning power, SS thinks I'm hiding things. Flattered to have them believe I'm that CLEVER. I never had handled finances before.

Well, there is a proposed meeting between SS, my attorney and myself on July 6. Not yet confirmed, but I hope something good can come of it. Hope I'm allowed to speak. Hope my lawyer speaks up. I am lost. I am without hope. I don't even know how to pray any more. I know how to sleep, sleep, take bubble baths, sleep some more. Hurray for Ambien and Clonazapam (and Oxicodone) and boring re-runs on tv. Horses all on the block for sale, okay. Making all neat and pretty for lessons, boarders. Nice show barn with great training facilities. But that's not much income. That'll pay the taxes and insurance on the place, that's all. Guess its something.

Jen, I just think that we don't know what to say about all this......you would think that with all the information that all these agencies and financial institutions have on all of us that they would have figured most of this out. Are the authorities questioning the family that had control of him and his finances for that one period of time? I am sorry for you...this sounds like such a mess....

Was just so hoping that someone else has had as much trouble with this process. Oh, well, I AM an odd little creature I guess. Its just taking such a physical and mental toll on my well-being. Just want to sleep all the time.

I would start writing some letters, sent certified, to your senators and congressman. None may do anything but then again one might be willing to step in and exert some political pressure. It seems that often when a politician gets involved, things get done. Doesn't hurt to try.

Thanks so much for your replies. It makes me feel so not alone through this time. And, guess what, Charlotte...my physical therapist suggested the same thing to me today....to go see some of my state representatives, write some letters. I simply CAN'T be the only woman left in the world that let her life be so led along and never asked questions....an old fashioned stay at home wife and mom. Worthless. Wish I could have a "do over". Yep, if anyone ever has a problem with Social Services and being qualified for Medicaid, guess I'm becoming an expert....or at least an example. Remember my saying, "If you can't be a good example, be a WARNING!"? And, hiring an Elder Law Attorney doesn't guarantee everything will be going your way, but I know I'd be lost without him. Thanks again for your comments and support. It is really a help. Love you all. Jen

Yes, and, I can't help but figure that the divorce action the kids had him initiate (which he didn't even recollect when I found him in Florida) is a factor in all of this. It painted a pretty nasty picture of me. In all, I'm glad I found him and brought him home, though. (although, I must say, I didn't KNOW what I was bringing home!!)

I would think the elder attorney would have done that. But if not, Jen needs to push that.

Okay. I think I need your help...and devine intervention. I mean it, truthfully. I remember when I was injured last year and all the prayers and care that was sent my way. I have no "church" or "temple" family. Just my neighbors, my mother and father (who are several hours away and ill, themselves)....and you all. So, therefore......I believe that prayer works. It must or I wouldn't have my right arm, as messed up as it looks. This morning, I was engaged in a last ditch effort to come up with information Social Services has requested. The bank was able to come up with only one other statement they are asking for....the last statement when I closed out our joint account in 2007. Nothing else exists that they want. Bank says that records SS is asking for are "unavailable" and "inaccessable" (this is SunTrust). I have searched (torn up) this office looking for even the most insignificant documents......john's bookkeepping existed as HUGE envelopes full of old reciepts over the last several years. Most of them, you can't read anymore. I found one old checkbook...for an account they aren't even looking into. Maybe they already have that information, I don't know.

I still have some paperwork to complete. It is a simple chore, but I'm finding it hard to just move. Everything seems surreal, like I've taken some sort of medication or overdose of something. I looked at my pillcase (I keep one of those big ones to keep up with my meds, like I used to for John). I've done nothing to myself, not even a drink, or a clonazapam to quel anxiety. I've never felt like this, even when my son died. I came home from the bank and the little grocery store, made and answered some phone calls, talked to my lawyer about tomorrow's conference with Social Services. I remember crying and crying. Then nothing. Honestly, I've slept for hours on the couch, feeling nothing, couldn't move. I remember standing in the kitchen...it seems like I was there for a long time, time just had stopped. Typing this, I'm desperate but I feel nothing if you can understand. This note is taking forever. I keep falling asleep almost, as if in a dream. I just find myself staring at the screen. Like I'm in a catatonic state of mind. It is harder and harder to just move.

Is it possible that the body and mind go into a self defence mode and just shuts down? Maybe this DID happen to me when Ger died, because looking back, I only remember hitting the tile floor .... then the next morning, having to tell his little sister when she woke up. Not much else, not even the FUNERAL, believe it or not. Nope. Just snipets. Right now, I feel my heart is broken, I give up. I don't want to see anyone or talk to neighbors....who came into my house earlier, worried about me. I know they were here, but don't remember the visit. I feel like my light has burned out, my eyes have gone blind. I'm frightened. I don't want to sell our farm. Where would I go? How could I sell this place in this economy...I can't even seem to be able to GIVE away some very fine horses. Forget cattle....so dry, no grass and I can't afford to feed anymore. No real money there anyway...some of you understand this. I just have such a sense of dread and foreboding. I believe tomorrow I will recieve devastating news that SS has denied John Medicaid, which he needs for his care. There is no way I can afford any more of his care. The money my parents have deposited in my accounts as loans or gifts are considered "marital assests", "income" and that is a problem. Guess it would have been better if I had ruined my excellent credit, declared bankruptcy ( if I even could do that )......or just divorced him like the kids wanted him to do. I had wanted to go back to school, work in my studio, teach at the art institute here in town, teach riding, continue offering ground training for horses and teaching riding lessons. Now, I'm scared I won't have anything, not even the home I own and that is paid for. I know no one can touch that, but what if John is turned down for Medicaid? I'll be liable for almost $100,000 of his debt.....and it will be ongoing till he dies. Then, no life insurance policy, I won't be recieving his social security because I'm too young. I don't qualify for any assistance because I've never worked (JUST a wife and mother all my life). I don't qualify for disability because I've never paid into the system. Nothing. I'd been depending on this place to help me get by for a while, providing boarding for horses, maybe a housemate, all the other stuff I told you about. I find myself falling asleep sitting up here.

Prayers have started; will note tomorrow at 2:00 Central Time; think you're on Eastern.

Jen, take a deep breath and relax.

What is your lawyers take on the situation? Is it that dire or are SS trying to just jerk you around? If he is denied, I don't think by law they can kick him out and you can challenge their denial. Since Virginia is not a community property state, if the house and property are in your name they may not be able to touch it. But then again we are dealing with the government who likes to walk all over people if they can. I say MAY cause I don't' know. If the nursing home does come after you, you could then file bankruptcy to get out of the debt. Just keep all gifts of money out of checking accounts - deal in cash only and keep a paper trail of where it all comes from in case you do file bankruptcy and the courts want to see. At worse, they could put a lien on your home so that if/when you sell it they will get paid.

I think I would consider packing up all the envelopes full of receipts - aka John's bookkeeping system - and hand that to them. AND - emphasize that his kids had guardianship of John and his money from xxx to xxx, so they can talk to them about where money went during the time spam. Somehow his Nh bills were paid in Florida.

Jen, Will be praying for you tonight as well as tomorrow. Sounds like you are close to collapse. With all you have been through your body is trying to tell you something.

Will be praying for you tomorrow at 3 pm, Jen.

Praying that tomorrow goes well and that this time tomorrow night you will be celebrating. Yes, prayers work and you have some good people praying for you. Love you.....

Oh, CRIMINY! ELDER ABUSE??? John was over 65 when he day-traded our future away!! That was in 2000-2001. And I stayed with him anyhow...NOT for his money. He was in charge of the money! Can they really charge me with Elder Abuse????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just one more thing, probably. Thanks for the prayers...please remember, 'cause I'll need it.

Stunt Girl,
Not unless you signed and used a POA for transferring his funds, or transferred funds to your name not in his best interest. When applying for Medicaid they will allow a spouse to transfer to spouse because this would be in the best interest in order to get them qualified for Medicaid, however the money would still be there. Not to worry, I am sure you have done none of this, they would have to prove you did.

Just getting caught up on the thread and am on pins and needles for Jen.
Because of her terrible journey with all of this I am learning a lot. To be innocent of all of these things and be accused anyway means as tedious as it will be, paper trail paper trail paper trail is the name of the game.
I hope my elder lawyer can get our trust updated in such as way that what is his and what came to me from my parents can be separated out so I can put all his stuff and bills in one account for his needs someway so there are receipts and trails about everything.
I think that son needs calling on a carpet to explain what happened to his father's funds etc while he had him in FL.

Wow, Jen, we are all relieved that things went well for you today and we will keep up the prayer chain that nothing more pops up to give you grief.

This year, before I even saw the elder lawyer, I decided, since our tax bill was so high this year..knock your eyes out high, that I would keep every single receipt for everything. So the basket my sil gave us for Christmas is the collection point..his bank statements go in that since he never filed like I do...and I have all the receipts for the condo I share ownership with my brothers in a different binder with all the stubs going back for the 10 years we have had it...and my DH was such a good packrat and did decent filing up until a couple years ago and everything is there it is just messy..but it is there...and I am finding things a bit at a time...

I suppose it will end up that his retired income will go for things it does now..bills for the house, his meds, groceries etc.. He never bought my clothes, or paid the cat bills until recently when the cat was mauled by 2 hot dogs that got out of their yard and nearly killed her in OUR garage, things like that. So I don't think that adjustment will be too hard. I have always been one to worry about paying taxes, and all bills on time...

I just worry about the NH if it comes to that....

Oh I did go after them! I called animal control the day of the attack and she came out, saw the cat and the scene of the crime then talked to the dog owners. After a month of medical bills, the animal control gal called to see if they made any payments and to that point no but I had not given them a bill yet,still they had not offered yet either. So animal control made a call and told them they had better make a payment or I would be taking them to court. They thought a token payment would be enough. I wrote back and said no they would pay all of it ( we forgave about 200 bucks for the wee wee pads and extra litter). They balked and finally one day I got a call from their ins company and detailed the whole thing to them In the end we were paid all but what we forgave ( and if I had known they were going to be so grumpy about this I would not have forgiven any of it). Later Ebonie had to have a second surgery and it was related to the attack but about 3 months had passed so we figured we would just get a headache out of them but we put the word out far and wide about the second surgery and that it took months and 3700.00 dollars by the time the whole ordeal was over. It took another year for Ebonie to get over being scared all the time..she is fine now.

I like the idea of the lawyer giving Jen a credit!

Charlotte! In love it! Yes, ask that young man and his paralegal gal to give me credit for thier extra education!!! No, he'll probably use his newfound experience to write a paper, lead a seminar at one of those vacation seminars liken the ones that doctors are always attending!!! *snicker*

Good grief, Mimi...what a doggie bill! One year, long ago, we had a little fluffy dog that stayed in the house. My housekeepper at the time (when I could do that) brought her dog with her one time to "play " with Sam. My dog was horribly injured...a handyman that was there at the time said he witnessed the dogs scuffling. My maid paid the vet bills. Voluntarily. LATER, months later, I found that it was my BIG outdoor dog, a retriever, that did the dirty deed...because we caught her attacking several other animals...including little Sam, which almost killed him that time. I felt so bad. Needed to pay the maid back!

Don't worry about the nursing home part of this whole thing we're in...I've found that is the least of my worries. John's in a good place. Clean and the staff is caring. It's just so darn far for the daughter and I. I am at ease today knowing that he can't be rolled out of there. I AM worried about meds, his secondary insurance, etc., that I'm coming close to not being able to pay. Yes, pressure is somewhat released, but am still very tense about the next meeting. Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts and prayers.