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    • CommentAuthorpernord
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    I am a good person.. a good husband for 42 years and a good father to my three children. My dear wife is now in a residential home with AD. I have suffered all my life with mental problems - which I have battled against to take on a good career and look after my family. Now, for twelve months in an empty house redolent of my wife, I am in pain and need, the support of a good, caring woman - something, I am sorry to say, I have not always fully received. I have found a good friend who loves me and we want to be together. I still very much love my wife and visit her several times a week and we have a smiling, loving time, insofar as the disease and circumstances allow. She is very happy there, with the other residents, many of whom are now her friends. I am desperately unhappy with my situation and my guilt but my new friend has had a similar situation with her late husband and understands and supports me. Is there ANYONE like me, ANYONE??
    • CommentAuthortherrja*
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    When we said "I do" to our loved ones, there was no mention of Alzheimer's and the in sickness and health, really doesn't account for the toll that AD takes on us as people.

    How you handle this is what is right for you while still fulfilling your obligations and responsibilities to your wife. I'm not quite where you are yet but at this point, I am not saying "no way" I just am not actively looking.

    If you friend is comfortable with you and your situation and you are happy with her, go for it and relax and enjoy while you can.
  1.  
    Pernord...I have no problem with it. Our obligation, as I see it, is to care for our loved one, but we can't neglect our own health and happiness. This falls into that category, as far as my situational ethics discern. People have personal opinions about what choice they'd make, but I think you need to cut yourself some slack.
    • CommentAuthorCharlotte
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    pernord =- there is a thread where this has been discussed a lot. There is no right or wrong answer. The answer is within you.

    Can you live with the decision? How do your kids feel about it and if they disagree, can you live with that? Once you answer these, then you can make a decision you can live with and not feel guilty. We have another guy on here that had a special lady while his wife were in the final stages. If I was in a NH and no longer knew my husband I would not want him sitting home waiting for me to die for his life to continue on.
    • CommentAuthorAdmin
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    Dear pernod,

    Welcome to my website. We have discussed this issue many times here - you are not alone, and you are not the only one who is struggling with this problem. First, please read these two articles that directly address what you are asking:

    http://www.forward.com/articles/11387/

    http://www.healingwell.com/library/alzheimers/oboyle2.asp

    Next, this blog details a letter a man in your position wrote to his children explaining his decision to always care for and love his Alzheimer's afflicted wife in a nursing home, but live life with a new love - http://www.thealzheimerspouse.com/Timetomoveon.htm

    And finally, go to the top of this page, click "search", and type in "sex and intimacy", making sure the "topic" circle is filled in. That will show you all of the discussions on the subject.

    These resources should definitely put your mind at ease - There are many like you.

    joang
  2.  
    I called myself a 'married widow.' Our MARRIAGE had died, but we were both still alive. It wasn't our fault. But sleeping in the same bed, eating at the same table does not a marriage make. When my DH was placed, he took up with a female patient in the facility and they carried on like teen-agers. He introduced her to everyone as his wife, Betty Lee. I took that to mean that he still loved me very much, but his brain was now addled, he didn't know what he was doing and I never thought of him as being unfaithful. I was happy for him that he had comfort and solace. The essence of a person is in the brain and when that is being destroyed, that essence diminishes. This is my opinion, others will say 'married is married' even if you're married to someone's body but whose essence is now gone. Some widows/ers will not take up w/someone even after death, they still feel guilty and unfaithful. I'm a widow now, I have a gentlemen friend but he can never replace my true love. I feel fortunate, never guilty. I'd want the same for my spouse. Like it or not, we spouse caregivers are forced by Nature to take on a new life. We have no choice, we cannot stay in the same spot and there is no set date of spousal death/release that says, 'Ok, now, today you can go out and live.' It's life, it happens, we live in a society where we can make our own decisions and the rest of the world--too bad! You will never neglect your wife, but you are still permitted to smile, to laugh, to ease the AD burden. It's OK, really it is.
  3.  
    very eloquently stated, Bettyhere*
    • CommentAuthorpernord
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    Thankyou Bettyhere
    Saying it really is ok is a great help. However, I have always been a practising Catholic but a family friend's husband got dementia and went into residential and then my wife did the same. I would give her a lift to visit and take her for a coffee and a chat and sometimes visit (her daughter, 22, was usually in the house) We never even held hands.. we were both grieving.... One of her neighbours then put it around the church that we were having an affair, totally and unjustifiably.. People I have known for 40yrs and liked and chatted and joked with each Sunday no longer spoke...a man shouted something from the back of the church during the Mass about me. I decided that I could go to the church no more, after a lifetime of attending, after giving time to the church and in being a well-liked reader.. When I was very young I was preyed upon by a priest for 4 yrs. I did not realise fully what abuse I was getting. I stuck with the church even so...and now what? I have a faith and love God but I have got a wonderful new lover now that cares for me outside of an AD, not really in being marriage, and she understands and helps me and we have a wonderful life just beginning. Am I note entitled to something, after all that has happened?
    • CommentAuthorThunder*
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    pernord,
    First of all... ALL ethics are situational. Anyone who has been in your situation would understand and anyone who hasn't has no right to judge you. I am in a similar situation as you as far as my wife goes. she is so deep into dementia that she doesn't know who I am. She is utterly incapable of any "relationship" with me or anyone else. My "marriage" drifted away when she did. I love her completely and I would never do anything to hurt her but our relationship has shifted. She still has a husband but I no longer have a wife. I am only 56 and this is tearing me up. If you have found someone to fill that void then you are lucky and you should enjoy what peace and fulfillment you can.

    As to the folks in church... there is an old saying "Sittin in a hen-house don't make you a chicken". Those who would judge and scorn you while sitting in church are not christians and I wouldn't lose a moments sleep over their petty gossip.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSusan L*
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2010
     
    Hi Pernod, you feelings are completely understandable. You mentioned children, are the grown? That would be my only concern, the feelings of younger children. I'm glad you have found happiness. Oh there are other Christian Churches that are far more understanding when it comes to non-traditional circumstances. Arms around, Susan
  4.  
    Pernod as others have said-you look within yourself for the answer. You are the only one in your moccasins. After a 51 yr marriage my husband has no idea who I am. He has been at end stage in a facility for over three years. Personally I still consider myself in a marriage and would not consider a sexual relationship. That is what is right for me-and me alone.I hope others do not decide to sit in judgement of you.
  5.  
    Pernod, I don't know much about the Catholic Church, but if I were treated as you were in my church I would go directly to the Minister and discuss it with him/her. If you just stop attending, no one will know why and there will be no opportunity to correct those who are acting so judgemental. The person who started the rumor that you were having an affair should be confronted. I'm not judging you, but I sure am judging the one who started the rumor.
  6.  
    Hi Pernod,
    I am not in your situation as my DH is at home and there is a relationship but it is shifting...and i feel lost so I do have the beginnings of understanding. You and your lady friend found yourselves in identical situations with an understanding of what each face that anyone not in this situation cannot understand though they think they do. Thunder said something worth consideration...his wife still has a husband but he has lost his wife. My dad said the same thing when my mom was deep into AD. I saw the lonely feeling and heart break in his face.
    I am also Catholic and am a lector and Eucharistic Minister. For members of your parish to chat about you and for someone to yell out something during church services is beyond disgusting. You are right to leave that church and find another where you can find support. No one has the right to judge you and I think it is a wonderful thing that you have someone with whom you can share time in a meaningful way. Blessings.
    Mimi
  7.  
    Pernod, I am not going to tell you it is ok. We can make alot of excuses for what we do. But obviously you are feeling some sort of quilt or you would not be looking for affirmation from us. I can speak from experience however, my mother did this exact same thing to my father before and after he was placed. She told everyone that she had not been married for a long time b/c of AD. however, this was a great embarassment and dismay for us children of the marriage who had been taught from the knee that marriage was a sacred vow. The man she took up with was a very dear friend of my father's so he did not enter into the affair blindly. It has driven a great wedge between my mother and her 3 children. It is hard to explain to our children and grand children. All I am saying is that you will have to decide for yourself if this affair is worth the price it will cost you in the loss of family, friends, and church members. Also I keep thinking, if the table were reversed would my dad cheat on my mom. The answer to that is No. Once again I am not judging your actions but you are looking for approval that I cannot give. Were you in the military?? Military members experience great lonliness when they are sent to distant and strange lands but as a whole we expect them to maintain faithfullness to their spouses. I cannot rationalize that AD is any different. Once again just my opinion. I wish you well in this journey, and I hope you find the peace that you are seeking. Phyllis
    •  
      CommentAuthorbuzzelena
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    That any of us are even put in this situation is SO sad. You, and only you, have the right to decide. I would never judge you. I think the people in your church were awful to you and they will pay for that, not you. I do think you should consider the feelings of your children, but even then it is your decision and your life. I wish you well.
    • CommentAuthorAdmin
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    I am not judging anyone. Each person has to make the decision that is right for them, and I know most people in this position do not enter into these situations lightly.

    Shellseeker50 - I am sorry that your mother's actions have caused such a rift in the family. Please consider reading the letter in this blog - http://www.thealzheimerspouse.com/Timetomoveon.htm

    I am NOT in any way saying that your feelings are wrong - they are your feelings and you have every right to feel them. I am just suggesting that maybe the letter will give you a perspective into your mother's feelings.

    This is a difficult situation for everyone involved. I do understand both sides. I honestly have no idea what I would do if faced with this choice.

    joang
  8.  
    Where is GC* when you need him? <grin>


    Pernod, as most of the others have said, this is an individual decision that every person has to make. None of us will stand in judgment of another here.....GC* had a girl friend before his wife passed away. He talked about his situation on a couple of the threads here...I can't find them, but maybe someone else can. Welcome to Joan's place....we hope you will find the answers you need here...we talk about anything and everything.
    • CommentAuthorBev*
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    Pernod, I have been married to my husband for almost 52 years. I believe I wouldn't want to have another relationship, probably because of my age and the difficulties of dealing with his dementia. But, even us old folks need love and affection and who knows what I would do in your circumstances? None of us really know until it happens to us.

    To Shellseeker, when I began to write this I thought your comments were very judgmental, but, then again, when I think about my own children, even though they are all grown and have their own families, I have to say I'm not entirely sure how they would feel. Perhaps this is a question I could talk about with them, just to see what they would say should something like this occur with their mother and father.

    I am Catholic, and for the people in church judging you, Pernod, they should be ashamed. I'm astounded that someone would shout out in judgment in church. He certainly does not sound like a Christian to me. What happened to Christian charity? "Judge not lest ye be judged."
    •  
      CommentAuthorJeanetteB
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    Pernod, welcome to the site. You have already started a lively and very interesting discussion! I believe that each person can and should decide what is right for them, and as long as no one is hurt, there is no question of wrongdoing. I wish you happiness in your new relationship.
    • CommentAuthorpernord
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2010
     
    Hi Pernord here



    HI Pernord here (Not Pernod as in the French aniseed drink but from Per Nordholm, my Swedish ancestor...)
    Shellseeker, thank you for your concern about my children. They agree, in a guarded fashion, that I have the right to find some happiness. I keep them up to date with how my wife is, when they cannot visit her. My children are very close to me and we have always helped each other out. They offer understanding and they know that June is a very good person who suffered in exactly the way I have done. I am sure that God sent her to me, to give me love and support when I most needed it. She says that she is not a God person and if God does not bother her she will not bother Him, but I have not met many persons who have a greater love of their fellow human beings than her. She is open and honest and kind and very practical. I tell her that if she ever met Jesus he would welcome her with open arms because they are the same sort of people - love of others comes first with her and she does this in a totally natural way, never looking for compliments for her goodness but carrying on quietly, secure in herself that there is only one way in life - the right and honest way in the service and love of mankind. I make no apologies for my love of her, I know I am secure in how I feel because it is completely right, even though the church would say that I am a serious sinner, not against Julia or against the Love of God or against the love of others but against the Law, and Jesus said that love comes before all. God judges us not on the outward signs we give but on what is in the heart - the real, deeply felt convictions of self-sacrifice and honest emotions for the reasons we hope and pray are the right things, not always unsinful under the Law, but the unselfish concerns for our loved ones and, at last, for ourselves. No-one can know that they are really completely justified before God, but one sees the signs and has the undeniable spiritual feelings that no dreadful harm is meant by what we do and that we would never seek to hurt anyone else, and certainly not turn away from Our Lord who died to save us. I will carry on loving them both and loving God. I can love God even though I am deemed to be sinful, that is only between Him and me and no-one else, certainly not the people who wear the blinkers or who have a terrible constipation of the brain in my home congregation who cannot accept that some people have to take the risks with their spiritual selves so that they really can live with true love for God and Man.
    Peter
  9.  
    My DH was in Korea and the idea of being w/someone else was never thought of. When someone is in the military, you have every reason to believe that they will come back to you whole, physically and mentally. That is quite different than dealing with AD, there is no coming back, we are forever left adrift. I also know that my children not only saw their father suffer, but made it clear that they had grave concerns for me, they said I lived in limbo and thought to have DH placed for their mother's well-being. After 10 yrs, I was aging and out of steam, they loved us both. They would not judge me as I would not judge them, their attitude is and was, 'we want to see our mother happy.' I can't find fault with that. I did not have to make this decision when DH was alive, so I'm not speaking from personal experience about what I would actually do. However, I have said that I will never judge anyone for whaever they do to get thru the AD journey. Everyone has their own religious views, everyone views marriage in different ways. People stray--AD or not--others stay together no matter what--some will be happy w/a new love, others are happier alone--I repeat--however one gets thru it, it's OK in my view, really, life is short, a loving God will understand whatever one does to hold the gift of happiness offered--alone or with someone, it's an individual choice. Why reject such a rare and precious gift?
    • CommentAuthorLFL
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2010
     
    pernord, welcome, this is a wondeul caring place. You need to do what you feel is right for you- which may not be right for others. I have few doubts that when my DH is placed in a residential facility he will find a new companion - it will break my heart. Have you considered how your wife would feel if the situation was reversed? Would she be seeking companionship outside your marriage? Most of the threads on this board dealing with this issue have been initiated by men. I definitely feel there is a gender factor at play. You have a difficult journey (as do we all) and no one should judge you.
    • CommentAuthorpernord
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2010
     
    LFL
    Thanks. I am not looking for people to condone what I am doing but just to understand my position. I am sure God understands; one only has to read the New Testament to know that God cares for Sinners. He will understand but not condone. I will have to try to live with this in mind and always relate my life to what I feel and believe. I am 68 next month. I am a young man in spite of this age thing. I may not have long to sort things out but I will live from day to day knowing that I have the understanding of all the people on this generous-spirited site, and the support and help of many Christians and others in a changing world.
  10.  
    Pernod. You are a lucky man to have found love with your wife, and luckier the second time to find a new love and be able to move on with your life. You DESERVE to be loved and to share love with someone else if you have that capacity. I have nothing else to add to all everyone else has said so well in support of your very human needs. I have several male friends for dinner dates, movies. Nothing "emotional" has developed for me yet, but I believe I'm becoming more open for that to happen. I would like to experience a REAL life partner one day. But it will have to be right, feel right....and I don't remember what it feels like to love now, for so many years...just hurt, angry and disappointed. I'm glad the AD experience hasn't made you go all numb. LIVE LIFE!