I have a moral deliemma. Johns roommates wife is a nice lady. She's 81 and has a few health issues but is of sound mind. Her husband is confused and depressed. He is often very grumpy with her and I can see she is hurt. Last week in the diningroom I could see she'd been crying so I knelt by her chair and said she looked like she needed a hug. She put her head on my shoulder and asked how I knew. I can literally feel her pain from across the room. This week she asked if she could talk to me about a few things. She is on her own with no kids or family for support. She has a sister who tells her she'll burn in hell for placing her husband. The man was hitting and biting her when she tried to help him at home! They are on a medicaid spend down and we know how terrible that is. They have $175000 in the bank which must be used towards her husbands care. Then she has to cash in his veterans life insurance and half of her IRA. She is terrified that when the money is gone she will not be able to support herself on the spousal allowance from medicaid. Her home heating oil bill in cold months runs about $700. She is riddled with guilt for placing him and even more so for wishing god would take him before he gets worse and she is destitute. I suggested everything I coukd think of. This site (no computer) an eldercare atty (she already had his name) and the alz assoc. She promised me she would call the atty. and the assoc. Now comes the really scary part. She said she has been putting medication away for the day when she can no longer go on. OMG Do I tell someone? The socialworker at the facility? I have to help her in some way. This is weighing heavily on me. I'll be checking back often for the rest of tonite so please give me any and all advice. Thanks cs
cs--- Call your local Mental Health crisis line. Tell them exactly what you've said here, and ask them who to contact to get her some help. Also, if you can, ask her if she's talked to your local Area Agency on Ageing. They may be able to help clarify the income and expense issues. She may not be completey clear on what's what, and in the process the Agency may be able to verify that everything is set up properly. She may even qualify for services, to help her. You could also call the Alz Assn yourself, for advice in guiding her. The fact she's saving meds. for later is a crisis sign. The fact she told you is a cry for help. It's a blessing that you're concerned enough to try to help.
cs, you are a blessing. Thank God she didn't confide in someone who would not have her best interests at heart. Especially regarding the money in the bank. Good advice above and I hope you/she can find the help she needs.
Thanks ladies...so far I have phone numbers for the Alz. referral network,the Alz. assoc, Area agency on Aging and hospice. I called the crisis hotline and they said to give her the numbers and encourage her to get help. I hope I see Judy tomorrow at the nh. I'll ask her to go for coffee and give her these numbers. Should I tell the socialworker at the facility or keep this private for now? I think maybe I'll just suggest she talk to the socialworker herself. Keep the ideas and suggestions comming. It's such a shame she can't come here. I know this site is just what she needs.
I agree with Susan,maybe you can go with her to talk to the social worker at 81 she may be a little frighten to do these things alone she needs someone I believe you are her angel
Good idea...I will offer to go with her. marygail, I'm no angel. I was wondering if I should get more involved than just offering the phone numbers. Oh what the heck, she's a sister in crisis. If I've learned anything from this web site it's how much the support we offer each other can do. If Judy will give me her address would you be willing to send a card or note of encouragement? xox cs
Yes, we would. Also, is there a library nearby where she could possibly use the computer to access this site. Well, maybe at 81, she wouldn't know how to use a computer. Stick with her, cs. Sounds like she could sure use a good friend.
I think it's wonderful that you are willing to take this on, but I honestly believe the woman has every right to make the choice to end her misery on her own terms and the time of her choosing.
cs, Get her to an elder law attorney and if she would allow it and you would be willing, go with her. At 81 she may not understand all they tell her; do tell her this, the $175,000 DOES NOT ALL HAVE TO BE SPENT ON HIS CARE, she has her information wrong, I don't care what State she lives in.
If she has already applied for Medicaid and is now on it she only has a certain amount of time to spend down. All the above will depend on whether or not she has already applied for Medicaid. She will be unable to save any of it if she does not act in the proper amount of time. I think they give her about 12 days to spend down all over the amount they allow her to keep for herself so whether or not she has already applied plays a big part in this.
Thank you thank you everyone. I just knew you would all come through to help this dear lady. Weejun and Charlotte... I also believe in the right to choose but only if it's an informed decision. Judy is floundering and is not aware of the help and support available to her. I want her to know her options first, the rest is up to her. I do have her address which for obvious reasons I can't post here. My e-mail address is available in my profile. Let me know you're interested and I will forward it to you. Looks like I'm jumping into this with both feet. I figure if we can stop long enough on our journey to help each other here, why not in person. Wish us luck. xox cs
the elderly tend not to understand complicated law, heck most of us younger ones either for that fact! i think its a real service you would go with her to an elder atty ASAP and make sure notes are taken and she understands all the options. taking ones life should not have to be an option. poor soul. nor should one have to be impoverished because the spouse needs care. very sad. good for you taking the time to be a friend. divvi
Jane, even if she has applied for medicaid, they won't take HER Social Security will they? And don't most states have an annuity one can buy in the spend-down?
briegull, No, they will not take her social security but I would imagine as she is 81 she most likely did not work and would draw more on her Husband's Social Security. Not that being 81 makes this so, but it tells me she was in the era where the Wife stayed home and the husband worked. That might not be true in her case as she did note she has an IRA, but the IRA could have been a Roth where both could contribute. Not knowing the complete situation it is hard to tell. However, even if her Social is more than his, it would not be enough to live on. Most States will allow her at least $21,000 per year to live on even if they take it from his income, problem is though with the nest egg spent, once he dies she would only have the one Social Security and what other savings she is allowed to keep to live on for the rest of her life.
As for the Annuity spend down they changed those laws back in November of 2005 when the Deficit Reduction Act was passed. Not all States allow the annuity now and some of those who do will go after the stream of income they produce, others will only allow the stream of income to be within the income guidelines that Medicaid allows the Spouse. The whole Annuity thing is now a case by case situation, not something you can count on as before.
Even if her State does allow this, her age alone would most likely not allow it as the Annuity has to pay out according to Medicaid life tables.
I would want to be sure about the $175,000 that they tell her HAS to be spent on his care. Not knowing the complete situation it is hard to know. It sounds to me like she has already applied for Medicaid as she spoke of Medicaid only allowing her a certain amount. She needs to act quickly. In most cases she could at least take the spend down money and buy things she might need in the future, thus making the income she does have last her longer. I do not know of any State that would make her take the spend down money and use it all for his care.
I wish I could help her, I would jump in with both feet.
update: Caught up with Judy today at the nh. I gave her the list of phone numbers for different orgs. that might be able to help her with financial advice and counciling. I also offered to go with her if she wanted moral support. She shyly said I had given her 4 phone numbers but I hadn't given her mine. Of course I immediatley added it to the list. I've held out my hand now it's up to her to take it. Sadly, her dh now has pneumonia. Dosen't seem too serious but adds to her stress. Thanks to allof you for taking an interest. xox cs
It's obvious that Judy knows a kind, caring person when she meets one. CS you have been a terrific friend to her. Even if she doesn't call, and I think she will, you can hold your head high, knowing you reached out ;o)
Oh stop it you guys! I went into this with reseverstions. Do I really need more on my plate. See...no angel no gold star. Just one struggling caregiver trying to help another. Thanks for your kind remarks. xox cs
Has anybody else had the cards mailed to Judy returned by the post office marked "no such number - unable to forward"? Both of mine came back, one yesterday and the other today...
Sadly, no. I left her a phone message the day Earl passed away. I then watched the paper to check on calling hours. When his obit was finally in it said no calling hours and no funeral service. I sure hope I didn't give you bad info on the address. I will call her again today. If she dosen't answer or return my call I guess that's the way she wants it. Thanks for your efforts. cs