In a week we are going to sign our wills and I guess I am just feeling shakey about having to make all decisions. We have always been a team and I find making every decision hard. After DH diagnosis I just read what I could and followed advice on AA website. I went to only Elder Law attorney in our town. We have completed AD and DPOA's already. Lawyers advice is to put everything in my name ( not to try to keep it but so that I can have control of liquidating when needed) At this point he tells me not to sell anything . My husbands will leaves everything to me and mine will leave everything in a trust for the care of my husband. The lawyer has said nothing about annuities. I have been reading other posts on this topic but frankly I am finding them hard to understand. My lawyer tells me that Virginia is very rigid when it comes to Medicaid rules. I haven't really started moving things into my name only. Does this sound like the thing to do?My husband won't object to signing things to me but he still has moments of being sad and feeling hurt. do you think I am doing the right thing?
My attorney advised the same thing. He set up my trust and put everything in it. He did say that before I made any decisions on a NH to contact him so he could do some final touches by shifting the money around. I understood he was refering to an annuity but he didn't go into detail about it. I think most states are very rigid when it comes to medicaid rules.
We had trusts set up before DH became so bad and his trust gave me the right to do whatever I wanted with things in his trust if he became incapacitated. I did need the signature of two different doctors saying he was unable to make decisions. He didn't have to sign anything when I switched everything.
It sounds like you're doing the right thing according to the elder law attorney I talked to.
I know it is difficult and very emotional to take care of these things. It is in the best interest of everyone - including your husband. I felt the same way as you did, especially taking his name off the deed to the house. He understood it was for the best and it sounds like your husband will be the same way. There are many sad aspects to this disease and I am like you and do not like to hurt my husbands feelings, but realistically many things must be done and we would not be doing our job if we don't take care of them. Please don't put guilt on yourself for taking care of youself and your husband.
Taking care of your husband is of course the right thing to do. It is so very hard making all the decisions yourself after being part of a team, I know. My husband wasn't exactly thrilled about some of the steps we had to take to protect him financially, but he understood that I only wanted the best for him.
It also turned out that he was afraid the reason we were visiting attorneys and filling out paperwork was that I was sick, and he was scared to death I was going to die. I had to repeatedly reassure him that I'm as healthy as a horse, and that I'd just decided it was time to get all the legal/financial stuff in order. (I am nineteen years younger than he is...)
So far my DH has been very cooperative with doing our will, DPOA, MPOA. He is still able to understand, at least for the moment I am explaining it, that what we are doing is "LOOKING OUT FOR EACH OTHER." Then he forgets all about it. But oddly, one of the effects of his AD is that he doesn't want to fight me for control of things anymore. I really do believe there have been experiences for him that I may not even be aware of, where he became very frightened that he cannot control finances, and other important decisions for me and the kids. He actually seems relieved that I am handling everything, ninety-five percent of the time.
BTW, Sunshyne, I hadn't realized you were in a May-December marriage too. Quite a few of us here. DH and I are 24 years apart.
It definitely makes me feel better to read your posts. I thought it was the right thing but as it gets closer to signing wills I have been feeling shaky. I think part of it is that this is sooo different from the future we had planned. And then from time to time my husband says something that reminds me how much he doesn't get it anymore. From moment to moment I don't know how he will react. I'm torn between starting to get things in my name while he can still sign or waiting until he is less likely to even notice and just do it with the poa. Is it easier to change things while he can still sign his name? I understand your husband's fear. I am only two years younger than my husband but I know that he trusts that I will always be here to care for him. I actually have had fearful moments thinking that I have to stay healthy for him. My husband has always been an introverted quiet man who definitely trusted animals more then people. I have always been the out going social one. His illness has really caused me to slowly have to reduce many, many of my activities to be here for him. I have become his link to everything and it is unlikely at this point that this will change. I don't mind and there is no where else I would rather be , but it is such an enormous responsibility. I just want to do it well. Again, thanks for all the words of support..
Laurie, It is best to have the home put into your name now while your husband can still sign and is willing to do so. There would not be a question if you had to sell if it were signed by both of you. If you transfer using POA there is a chance (remote chance but still a chance that you would have to prove that you transferred to you in his best interest, as anytime you use POA it must be done in the best interest of the person your represent.
That said, the Virginia Medicaid DOES allow actuarially sound annuties for the spouse, this means that the annunity must be set up according to medicaid guidelines and provide a steady stream of income for the spouse left at home. This is a wonderful way to protect countable assets and not have to spend them in a wasteful way.
THE LAWS HAVE NOW CHANGED FOR ANNUNITIES PURCHASED AFTER THE DRA ACT, MANY STATES ARE NOW COUNTING THE INCOME STREAM FROM A MEDICAID QUALIFIED ANNUNITY AS A RESOURCE.
Jane, Thank you for the information. I will at least mention annuity to attorney. It's amazing but as soon as some folks heard AD they told me to start spending every thing. I've been pretty frugal all my life and can't imagine just spending assets to spend. I'm also thinking that I will need to made accomodations to the house later on. Do I need a lawyer to get the house in my name or is this something I can do at the clerks office?
My husband is 69 and I am 65. My birthday is December, but his is not May. :) (Just adding a little humor!)
I have the house and cars in my name, we both have our wills, and have a DPOA on him. My daughter has my DPOA and is second on my husband's, just in case something should happen to me. I have her as beneficiary on my checking accounts and added her to my lock box. I am looking out for my husband in case something should happen to me as well. She's the oldest of our four children, and the one who is living with us (she and I both still work, but she is looking into the possibility of working from home when the time comes for someone to be with my husband all of the time).
I realize how fortunate I am to have her and her willingness to shoulder this responsibility. My son and his wife have both looked into transferring back here to be able to help out as well if needed. I don't want to have to burden any of my children, nor have I asked for their help. They are just doing it on their own. I am blessed in this regard.
I can't imagine how those of you who still have small children at home while having a spouse with AD manage. It is so hard just taking care of the spouse, and fulfilling his needs plus managing the finances, repairs, etc.
I hope that you have made certain to have the capability of handling all financial matters and to ensure that your financial future will be livable once you are on your own. Wills, Durable Powers of Attorney, Deeds, Titles, CDs, Bonds, Stocks, and credit cards all should be taken care of as soon as possible if you don't already have them in your name. This is best for both of you down the line. Don't put it off.
Laurie, You will need an attorney to have the house transferred to your name. Both you and your husband should sign if possible. If he is leary about going to an attorney, just go yourself, get the deed drawn up and have a notary of your choice witness it, then have it registered.
Do not start the process of an annunity until such time that you are sure you will be applying for Medicaid. It takes an experienced elder law attorney to do this, it has to be set up just right according to your life tables and also according to Medicaid guidelines. You will have time for this once you start the Medicaid process, it would be part of the spend down. When you hear people tell you to start spending down they are incorrect to advise this. The more you have at the time of application the greater amount of resource you will be allowed. You are allowed UP TO $104,000 but that is just if you have $208,000 in countable resources, not counting the home and other non countable items. If you only have $50,000 then you are allowed $25,000. Example: You have $210,000, you are allowed $104,000, your husband allowed $2,000 and the other 104,000 is what you would want to buy the annunity with. If you do this before application then the amount they allowed you would not be as much and you might buy the wrong type of annunity, and even better you might not even have to apply for Medicaid. I hope this has helped.
Thank you Jane. Your information was clear and concise and does make me feel better. After I read this I contacted my lawyer and asked him to help me with the house. I think I can get that done at the same time we sign the wills.I think I'll keep a copy of this post as well. It seems to me that there is a fear of being left a pauper by this disease and I'm sure that is comes close to happening for many.However , I really have had people suggest I spend everything or hide everything. I am not comfortable with either of those alternatives. Your post was the first that discussed in factual terms what I am likely to keep should we indeed need to apply for medicaid at some point. Thanks for helping me with this. I know that making these decisions will come easier as time goes by . I still haven't accepted totally what I am dealing with. I try to talk these things over with my husband and sometimes it even seems like he is listening. And then he will say something and his response is completely off the wall. I need to move forward and get things transferred to my name. I am very tired thinking and worrying over these money matters. Now I have a plan I can follow.....
To the top ... brings threads that have gotten buried with age back where we can see them. (Typing anything will bring the thread back, of course. This is just a quick way of making it clear WHY I'm typing.)
This may be a good place for my advice - be sure you have rights of surviorship on your autos. Somehow our motorhome was checked 'no' on rights of survivorship. That was definitely wrong, but I never noticed it - until today when I tried to get the car and rig in my name. What a hassel! Since the courts weren't involved in any probate I now have to send forms to all seven children/stepchildren, which they need to get to a notiary for signature. I don't think there will be a problem, BUT - I doubt any of these 7 will put getting this done on top priority, so who knows how long before I get then all back.
frand you are exactly right. My MIL died and thinking that selling her car would pay for all the funeral expenses we would all sign to sell and give our share towards the funeral bill. Well all but one agreed and we had to divvy up the difference. The Seagulls are flying again. I thought we had everything in place but finding that I needed a DPOA for my DH has a very small CD at the bank is being a real pain. I am applying for Medicaid and the bank would not give me the total of the CD. We had wills and MPOA and thought that all was in place 5 years ago. NOT I am bringing in the big boys and have hired an Elder Law Attorney since this is driving me insane. I just got the first months bill from the NH and I work full time but don't make that much in a month and that is not the bill for the medication either.
While you are at it, make sure you have right of survivorship on your bank accounts, as well. Without a right of survivorship form, even joint accounts are frozen as soon as they find out your spouse passed. With a ROS, the account stays open for you to be able to access.
My name was on my Mother's bank accounts as Jane Doe or Jean Doe and when she passed away the accounts weren't frozen. Everything went as before. I am an only child and could still write checks from the account. Son in law told me the account would be froze, but it wasn't.
I'll bet it was. I am still writing checks on my Mom's and my joint checking account as I have to pay my Dad's bills. I'm the DPOA, the bank knows my Mom passed away, and they have NEVER questioned anything. Mom's name is still on the checks. They did request a copy of her death certificate as we have a money market account there too that is in the name of the family trust.
Do you folks mind if I ask how much you paid an elder law attorney to do a will, DPOA, health directives? I have finally found an elder law attorney in our area and the office manager says they charge $450 for those items as a “package”. I don’t think this includes setting up a trust, I was told I can discuss a trust with the attorney when we meet. $450 is a lot of money for us right now and I want to do the right thing but I don’t want to spend more than I need to either. We are not eligible for reduced costs elder legal services since my DH is only 54. I have one more question: is it really crucial to put the house in my name only? My DH has come around to the idea of the DPOA but he is very protective of our little house and I think it will freak him out if I even suggest putting it in my name only. I don’t want to send him into orbit if it is not totally necessary. Thanks so much.
In New England, I had a high-power "estate planner" lawyer do wills, DPOAs, DPOAs for health care, etc etc for BOTH of us, for $1000. This was mainly because at the time my husband was resistant to doing anything so if I did it too he was willing to. I then had to talk to an elderlaw att'y for info about medicaid possibilities.
No, you do NOT need to put the house in your name. If you should have him go on medicaid (and put him in a NH, which is far from certain), you will NOT be required to give up your house if you're still living in it. It is safe. I think it varies from state to state whether or not they would require your estate to pay them back after YOU are gone, but as long as you're living and in it you're fine.
When you see the attorney, be sure to get him to discuss exactly what would happen when you put your spouse in a NH. You can go back and look at previous discussions but basically, HIS income (SS, pensions, 401K payments if any) would go to HIS maintenance in a NH, and you'd be living on YOURS - BUT! if you have some monetary savings NOT in pensions, that would be split between you, in half. Theoretically half of that savings would go to him but from THAT half, certain expenses can be taken: burial expenses prepaid, a new car bought, some home repairs done, and a special kind of annuity bought for YOU. Also if your own income is below a certain level, some of his income can be given to you. If you really have a fair amount of money just sitting there, the largest you're allowed to have as your "half" is $104,000.
NOw a few caveats here: some of this may be different since your husband's younger. But before you make that appointment, make clear to the office mgr that you want to talk about medicaid possibilities AND the age of your spouse. If she gives you the brush off your money may not be well spent. As a speaker here said, Alzheimer's is where the middle class meets welfare.
Both the original lawyer I went to and the elder law one said trusts are not necessarily all they're cracked up to be.
There is a website where you can find elder law atty's, called
In PA we had wills,MPOA and it cost us $250.00 now I have contacted an Elder law attorney and his initial fee for filing with Medicaid and NH stuff will cost me $250.00. I have no idea what might be forthcoming but so far so good. When it comes to attorneys I don't want a corporate attorney defending a murder case etc. Do your homework which asking us is a good start. My support group told me about the Elder law attorney that I just hired and I went on his website and found out he was the ranked 6th in the state for Elder law knowledge. I would rather have someone who does 2 NH cases a week verses 2 a year.
Thanks Briegull! I copied your info to refer to for my questions with the attorney. I am relieved about the house. I think we are a long ways from the NH, at least that is my hope, but I am starting to see that AD pulls some nasty surprises. It is interesting what you say about trusts. Do you have any idea why the attorneys were not hot on them? What is the alternate plan if something happens to me? If for instance, I died today, I don't see how my husband could handle paying bills, collecting my life insurance, etc. Isn't a trust neccesary to handle that? Or am I missing a simpler option? If there is a better way to go I would be interested because I am having trouble finding someone willing to serve as the Trustee.
Jenene: I was hoping to spend more like $250. I wonder if I should keep looking around. I am not doing the Medicaid and NH stuff yet. I did get my attorney referral directly from our local AD association. I have not been to an "in person" support group yet. I know I should go but for some reason I am feeling shy about it. We live in a very small town and I guess I am just still feeling very private about this whole thing. I know in my head that I am being silly, but there it is.
Fritz, trusts can be very useful in that the estate moves very quickly and without all the probate rigmarole. You'd want to find someone with expertise in special needs trusts, to see if a trust is right for you. The reason why some attorneys are not terribly hot on trusts is that they are not very good at protecting assets for couples facing medicaid issues in the near future. I have set up a trust, in the event something happens to me. Some people name a trustworthy, close relative (child, for example) to serve as the residuary trustee. My husband's kids would rob him blind. I found a professional private fiduciary, who is a certified guardian, to serve as the residuary trustee if I become incapacitated and die. She has all the experience, and relationships with every type of support person my husband might need -- legal, financial, healthcare, you name it.
Oh -- and I'd recommend that you talk with two or three lawyers. The Alz Assoc can give you names, but I don't think they're actually allowed to tell you whether the person is really all that qualified. Plus, the lawyer that's best for you is the one you can understand, and feel comfortable talking with. Most lawyers will give you an initial half-hour consultation for free. Develop a list of questions to take with you, to make the most of the time you're given.
Fritz I felt the same way and just like there are different websites like this one so are there different support groups. Yes I live in a small town and the next closest town has 12 different groups. I was just lucky and found a wonderful group of people on the first try. They are just like here. They let you vent, cry, laugh, ask questions and have a wealth of knowledge to help. Some just tell their names and say they are not ready to talk yet and that is fine also. No prying. Last month we had a resident from a NH that wanted to join the group and ask if he was "normal" and the feelings he had like losing interest in his stamp collection was that part of the disease. He wanted to ask us, not his doctor. He felt so comfortable with our group that he asked if he could come back next month. Going to the support group was a hard thing for me so I took my girlfriend along and she has been to every meeting not just the first one cause I needed her support to walk in the door to the meeting. You know Fritz it is just like the people who look at this website and it takes them a long time to jump in the first time and some never do and that is alright too.
JANE!!! sooo good to see your post! haha. maybe we can bait you about medicare issues and you will have to out of good conciousness jump in and set us straight.-:)..glad to see you. divvi
ps you can edit your own posts! go back and delete it if its wrong!
Tomorrow we meet with the elder law attorney my sister and her late husband used. It is a free informational meeting where we will find out how much he will charge to do the will, DPOA and anything else we will need. Since we have very, very limited funds, the price will decide whether we have him do them or do them ourselves. I think the most important to have correct is the DPOA, so that may be the one we will pay for.