Three weeks ago I began calling elder law attorneys to find someone we could use. Currently my husband doesn't want to participate and I told each person that with whom I spoke. At one office the woman was very understanding and said they were used to that and said she thought because of the complexities of our family situation I should go ahead and come in for a free 30 minute consultation with the attorney, a service they were pleased to provide to families in my circumstances in the community. So I made the appointment as she said after I'd met with the attorney I'd understand more of my options and then I could try to talk to my husband again. She said that she would write notes based on our conversation for the attorney to review before I came in. A couple days later I received an email confirming the appt from another person in that office. Last week I received a telephone message reminding me of my appointment and telling me to be sure and call ahead to cancel if needed.
I took a day of vacation from work to attend the appointment today. About an hour before my appointment my phone rang and someone from the attorney's office said she was calling about my appointment. She said abruptly, "is your husband coming with you?". I told her no and she said sharply, "Why not?" Then she began talking about how we needed a life plan that would prepare us for my husband to get good nursing home care when it was needed, and that no estate planning could be done without my husband. She said he's the elderly person, you're only 52 and we need to make sure his assets are protected - he's the one we're really serving, although we want to protect the spouse from impoverishment too. I reiterated the info I'd given previously: he doesn't acknowledge a problem, he gets very angry when estate planning, memory, or anything related is mentioned. He's bouncing checks and seems to have forgotten how to balance his checkbook and the previous person I'd talked with said it would be best for me to come alone the first time and then we could make a plan as to how to proceed as he's not willing. The caller then asked if we both had a will and POA (I do, he doesn't) and she said we want to help you, but you could come meet with us and then leave and we'd never see you again and "where would that leave us? You really need to bring your husband with you today." I told her that wasn't possible but I didn't want to waste their time and I'd just have to call back another time. I felt like I was just going to cry on the phone and her attitude made me not want to even lay eyes on her. She then said "we really do want to help you but we don't want to wait until there is a crisis. We're about preventing crises and we need to plan for the long-term care of your husband. Have you tried to talk to him in this way..." and then started giving examples that I've used a 100 hundred times already. I told her again - he's still "working" in his business, he doesn't acknowledge the changes, and if he has to come with me then I'll just have to cancel but your co-worker thought I should come in today and she spent a lot of time with me on the phone and asked a lot of questions and really seemed to grasp our situation." Anyway, the lady finally just said she thought it would be best for me to call back after I talk to my husband again. I'm so mad!!! I wasted a day of vacation!! And I'm still DUMB about all this stuff! I think I still need to cry.
What a HORRIBLE experience. You certainly didn't need to deal with that, considering everything else you have going on. There are the good and bad in all professions. I wouldn't bother with that firm again. Do you know anyone who has used a Certified Elder Law Attorney that they were happy with? Ask around and see if someone can recommend a better firm.
I am so sorry that you are having these problems. I had a very good experience with our Elder Affairs Attorney. I did not know anything about them, did not know anything about what we needed, etc. But, I got their name through the link on the regular Alzheimers website. I don't know if they screen them - I doubt it, but at that point I was desparate and got lucky.You might see if that works for you. Good luck.
Oh, I would be so livid. Perhaps, look at this "event" as a blessing of sorts. Could be that you would have wound up extremely disappointed AFTER getting to work with them on your papers. I would try again to find a good one by asking others in your circle of friends, or by calling a senior resource center in your area for recommendations. We did our POA's, and are in process of doing our Wills. This atty is one who did the real estate transaction between us and the party we bought our home from. We own a rental also, and I had concerns about my ability to sell it on my own, without DH involved. It just so happened that the same atty who we dealt with on the real estate also does Elder Law. So I feel kind of like we got a 2 for 1.
You are definitely lucky ... you found out this was the wrong firm for you before you made any sort of commitment.
Finding a *certified* elder law attorney is a good suggestion. They have more training, and are worth the extra bucks. Definitely ask for references.
Also, find out what specialty the attorneys have. This isn't as easy as it sounds. I was trying to find someone to give me advice on drawing up a living trust to protect my husband in the event something happened to me ... and I contacted an elder law attorney from a law firm recommended to me as one of the best, and whose web site says she does trusts and estate planning. We met, and I really liked her, but it turns out she's "wrong" for what I want. Yes, she does "trusts" and "estate planning" but she focuses on court cases, not drawing up documents.
I've re-read your post, and I'm getting more steamed by the minute.
The free consultation is so that you and the attorney can decide if you need an attorney and whether you're right for each other ... it's not supposed to ensnare you into a relationship no matter what. I mean, that's just flat out unethical. You have EVERY right to leave and never see them again. And that would leave them where they should be, if they're not right enough for you.
Honest to pete.
Don't cry. Focus on being thoroughly mad. Never mind -- I'm mad enough for both of us.
I just had a consultation with a business law firm -- one of the very best, all sorts of top credentials. I mean, they are NOT begging for clients. The guy met with me right away, since it was an emergency. He spent an hour and a half with me. He spent the weekend reading some materials I'd given him. He had a depo the next week and arranged for his colleague to help out if needed. The colleague answered a bunch of questions for me by email. THEY ended up telling me they thought I should pursue a different tack and work with a different attorney, and gave me several recommendations. And they never charged me a penny, even though I expected to pay for the original consultation and offered to do so.
Furthermore, I think it's absolutely ridiculous for her to claim that they are "really serving" your husband, and not you. Serving both of you, maybe, if that isn't a conflict of interest. Or serving just you -- YOU were the one who asked for the appointment, YOU were the potential client. YOU have every right to consult an attorney ON YOUR OWN, for whatever reason you may have. Certainly, you can ask any questions you may have about estate planning without your husband there ... it's your estate too, and yes, you could end up impoverished if it isn't done right.
You may not be able to draw up the papers without his cooperation (or POA or whatever), but you sure as heck can talk to an attorney -- YOUR attorney -- about the alternatives.
Just Thinking: This sounds like everyone's nightmare. It is enough to have to get legal advice in the first place. This sounds like 'bait and switch' to me. I don't know if you have the energy for this, but there surely is some place to contact with a complaint about how you were treated. I wish I could do it for you! Hang in there....
A phone call to the Attorney General's office in your state wouldn't hurt.... Could you convince your husband that should he be rendered unconscious and need medical attention, or have a stroke, that you would need his power of attorney to handle things until he was himself again? You really need the Durable Power of Attorney on him as soon as possible. For his sake as well as your own. And attorneys specializing in Elder Care are popping up right and left. You need a good one. That one who called you back was definitely not a good one!
Just thinking, I have been reading and re-reading your post. I can understand your frustration and I would feel the same way. You would not want this Attorney even if you had not encountered a problem in the first round, so be greatful this happened. That is one way of looking at it isn't it? Now for some thoughts on this. First thing, any Elder Law Attorney for any Attorney for that Matter has to have both your and your husbands interest in mind, they have to protect him if he is indeed already incompetent and if he is not then they need his co-operation in signing a DOPA in order that you may protect both of you. I had a friend who encountered the same situation with an Elder Law Attorney, she already had DOPA and this Attorney tried to make her think hers was not one that allowed gifting, which meant that she could not transfer the Home into her name. Mind you now, her husband is in a NH and was at that time, this Attorney wanted to go to the NH and have him sign new DPOA, he is incompetent and the Attorney wanted to see if he was competent at the time he signed the first DOPA. (How stupid) asking a now incompetent person questions to determine if he was competent years ago when he made the first DOPA. I told her to go to a regular Attorney, which she did, she took the DOPA that she had and he did not ask one question everything was fine, she transferred the home and he is now on Medicaid.
I would in your case first go to a regular Attorney, do not go into great detail, just explain that you need DOPA, that your husband would not come with you. Ask him to do the DOPA then ask him to let you get someone familiarto both you and your husband Notarize it, not have it done in the Attorney office. This will give you time to convince your husband that these documents are needed. You might do like I did, I also had a DOPA for myself and my husband as agent, this made him feel that we were just both protecting each other. As soon as he signed his I changed mine to take him off as agent.
Just thinking, I ran out of space and wanted to say that has been more than 8 years ago and I am still protecting both of us. I am taking care of my husband at home and did nothing wrong. He would not have understood my motive because at that time he was still competent and had no idea of what was to come for us. Just make your husband feel he is doing this and you are to, don't make him feel it is he that is the only one involved.
I hope I have made some sense. Others may not look at it this way and of course it would depend what stage your husband is in, but of course he is still competent or you would not be trying to do a DOPA
we also did DPOA on each other at the time -I forgot i had my husband as my agent so this is in fact something i am having to redo this coming week. i was also told by the dr who did his first initial neurological tests we needed to get paperwork in order so we got the DPOA after this recommendation by that dr. you need to get it done asap and get all the property/accts transferred so you wont be left out.
When my wife and I signed our DPOA's, each was made agent for the other. Then our attorney made out a second one for each of us naming our daughter as agent. This meant that in the situation where our daughter would have to take over, she would not have to go to court to prove that my wife or I was unable to carry out our duties. So far we have had no problem, and I still use my wife's credit card for many purchases and have her sign it since she is with me almost all the time.
Our DPOA's were done just two weeks ago. Ours is called a Reciprocal Durable Power of Attorney. It states we are each others attorney in fact, and my eldest son is the alternate in the event we were unable or unwilling. The deal with "Reciprocal" is that it becomes effective immediately, upon execution. I can sign for my DH, even though he has not been declared incompetent. And, my son could act for me if I were unable to because of (eg: a broken arm) or unwilling (inconvenient for me to travel). It's actually a very easy going POA. I do not know if WA state is the only, or one of many states with Reciprocal POA's. Our attorney and his wife have this also. It is a requirement that it be filed with the courts.
Even though I haven't written anything new, I have read all your responses over and over again for the last two days. I just didn't have the energy to write anything. Usually I'm so matter-of-fact and competent, if I may so myself, but this experience got to me. I guess I had really high hopes - but as several of you said, this must not have been the right firm, the right attorney, or the right time. I wish I had words to tell you how comforting or affirming your anger was, and how helpful your words of advice and experience. So - even though I still feel like crying about this - but maybe the tears are about the ALL the changes, not just this awful attorney experience - I am going to take the advice so many of you gave. I'm going to start with the basic protective documents that I can get at a "regular" attorney for right now, which will give me more time to ask around about a different elder law attorney. This website is priceless!! I can't imagine what the last few weeks/months would have been like for me without it - without you! Thank you so much.
You may find that a regular attorney, in basic family practice, has all of the information and help that you really need right now. I was a legal secretary many years ago for a family practice attorney. That was before there was certification for elder care laywers, but frankly, unless your situation is very unusual a family practice attorney will know what you need, and will send you to a specialist (just as a family doctor does) if you need more than s/he can handle.
We went to an Elder Law Attorney for the first time last week. She was very helpful with the POA's. But after going over our situation (neither being 65 yet and me still working), she referred us to a divorce lawyer and said to have them take care of the divorce before returning to her. DIVORCE???? I have been told that this could be a possibility from several people. She went on to explain that he would never qualify for medicaid (he has medicare right now with his SSD) with my income. There goes another hit for us mid-income families. Has anyone else been told this? It would make me feel much better if I knew I was not the only one hearing this.
In the "search" section at the top of this discussion, type in "divorcing your AD spouse - a way to keep assets". Under that discussion, there is an answer to your question by "jane".
We have had a very long day of traveling, so I was too tired to read the whole thing, but I remembered it, so I looked it up.