divvi, Maybe it is good for the waste can to be used, but then I had to immediately clean the waste can out or there would be the smell. It was good in that it told me he needed help. If they are to the point they do not know where to place the tissue they need supervision in the bathroom and they need help, whether they want it or not.
Jane the link didn't work, but I deleted most of it and found the information by going to the base site. WOW! That is a great site in general. The Alzheimer's info starts here:
http://www.ec-online.net/alzchannel.htm
And it is probably worth just going to the home page as well:
http://www.ec-online.net
With all of my searching, and I did find some good things out there, this is a rich site that didn't show up in the search engines. There is a huge amount of information, some of if for free and some for not too much money. Personally I'd check as much of the free stuff out first, but I might buy some of the e-books if I think they are worth it.
Starling I am sorry the link did not work. I have had it in my favorites for a long time and I never have any trouble getting into the site. I am so glad you were able to. It is a wonderful site, I found it early in our disease process and it has been a big help to me.
Hi! My hubby has had more trouble in the incontienence of his bowels than urine. He tells me often he is not an infant, so I haven't tried the diapers yet. I deal with lots of stains and bleach!! However, I am trying to decide how I will get him to use a diaper without offending him. He has gotten lately a couple of times where he will be standing to urinate and have a BM in his shorts. He gets really outdone at himself. Any suggestions??
My husband's in what I would say is mid-stage 6 - sometimes confusion, but he talks a lot, hangs around me a lot. About six months ago he started to have "accidents," and not making it to the toilet in time, and then stripping, etc etc etc. He also was having a lot of trouble with his bowels. I went through all kinds of changing of diet trying to cut down on the gas, mostly without luck. He has a lot of trouble walking (has always had a "bad leg" which has made him use a cane, it's gotten worse but at least I don't have to worry about him wandering far. It would take him half an hour to get to the tree ten feet down from the end of our sidewalk!).
There's a lot of talk out there about "toileting" them every couple of hours. Mine did not like to be nagged to go to the toilet. I found that
a) male guards DO NOT WORK! - the pad rolls back and the tape gets stuck. Not comfortable.
b) for us, the pull-up depends (Walmart brand) seems to work fine, even at night.
c) We started using pull-down TROUSERS at the same time as the pull-down depends. J.C. Penney has real trousers that pull-up - they're not sweat pants or nylon jogging pants; they're more like chinos, have pockets etc. (http://tinyurl.com/4o2k5d) So now he's not going through all the unbuttoning and unbuckle-ing and un-zipping. Pull down pants, pull down whitie, that's it. We also started using pull-over polo shirts; he was endlessly unbuttoning his shirts before going to the bathroom. This stopped it for him.
d) I have started giving him a single immodium at breakfast time. This doesn't seem to constipate him but does cut down a lot on the gas, etc.
e) at night, it's possible to get pads called BOOSTS which are specifically made to go inside the Depends. They're made by Depends; check them out on their website. I haven't used them but plan to get some to have on hand. (they're like hot-dogs and buns; they don't come in a package that corresponds with the number of depend pants in a pkg!)
f) and finally, go to bigtreemurphy.com. She is incredible about incontinence. She gives a talk called "it's just poop, folks" and talks in great detail about how to do things on her website.
Briegull, i also use the pull up pants and depends two at atime. an also give an immodium every other day per dr says ok as his meds can give diarhea and this helps hugely to avoid BM everyday. i found too that buckle/belts etc just slow them down and can confuse. i may try pennys for the real look trousers, mine loves the colorful jog types and always looks nice and easy to care for. thanks for pennys advice. divvi
Briegull, thank you for all of that very informative information! I just went to the Penney's site and order a pair of those pants. I figure it won't hurt to get him used to them before he needs them! This is one issue that we haven't arrived at as yet, but I want to be prepared. Thank you!
My wife has developed a lot of gas over the past few months (she is in stage 5) and I have tried Gas-Ex, with not much help. By the end of the day she looks at least 8 months pregnant. She doesn't seem to have much in the line of diarrhea. Her doctor has put her on metoclopramide (Reglan), starting tonight. If that doesn't work, I'll try the immodium (I don't want to change more than one variable at a time).
thanks for the info, i will look at the trouser link. (didn't want to say i would look into the trousers- ha! ) The Immodium sounds like an idea too. Thanks for your ideas!
Also don't know if your Walmart does, but our SuperWalmart has a "family bathroom" so that makes it an easy place to find groceries and other things knowing that it is available. I have gone in the mens dressing room with him too. No one has said anything to me about it yet.
In the last two weeks it has become increasingly difficult to get my husband to sit on the toilet. Was not a fun weekend with him being constipated, then stool softeners, then many accidents. Getting up at 3:30 am to clean him, the bathroom floor and changing the bed did not make for a relaxing weekend. I was so excited to go back to work today but since my caregiver walked out last week, I know I'll have to quit work soon. Right now my son is helping me until I can quit. One of the reasons my husband says he doesn't want to sit down is that it's cold....he hates cold water for washing his hands, won't go outside if it's cold.....has anyone else dealt with this? We're wondering if a small heater by the toilet might help? Fur covered toilet seat? (just kidding). But we're so tired of trying to reason with him. It's why my caregiver quit as she was trying to get him to sit on the toilet and he got mad and lost his temper.
Carole, actually I did deal with that situation...this is not pretty to relate, but what I would do was position him in front of the toilet with his pants down and then I would stand in front of him with my back to him and gently ease him down and then I had to sit on his lap so he wouldn't get up....It didn't always work, but it beat the heck out of cleaning up everything in the house. You know, I haven't remembered a lot of this stuff until one of you asks a question and then it all comes rushing back.
To all of you not at this point yet, let me reiterate that my husband was one of the most difficult cases I have heard of...so some of the stuff I had to resort to will probably not come into play in your situation. My husband was only 50 and healthy as a horse when diagnosed and was big and strong.....his aggressiveness was really difficult to deal with, and only after giving him enough drugs to bring down a horse was anyone able to try to take care of him.
Carole, I also went through this with my husband. He never said that the reason was the seat was cold, he would just not want to sit down, so, like you, I had many accidents to clean up, all during the day and night. My DH would also get very aggitated at times when I tried to make him sit down on the toilet. I never really found anything that really worked for this situation, so, I am hoping there is someone on this site that can give you some suggestions. I just did the best I could to get him to sit down and when he didn't I knew I would be facing the messes. At night I would also put a night light in our bathroom so he could find his way, but, there were times he would just open our closet door and think that was the bathroom. Sometimes I would wake up in time to re-direct him, but, other times, I wouldn't quite make it to him. My husband is over 6 ft. tall and I am 5'3", so, when he didn't want to do something, well, there was not a whole lot I could do about it. I tried the re-directing, being calm and understanding, but, there were times nothing worked.
The heater might help, but, I would be very careful using one around a person with AD. You never know when they would mistakenly drop something into it and catch it on fire. Unfortunately, it was just another one of the stages that I dealt with the best I could. Hopefully someone can come up with a suggestion that will make it easier on you.
Goggle 'warm seat for toilets' and see if any of that would work for you. Right now I can't find the information on a toilet I thought would be worth the money when I 'get to that point' - if I think of it I'll put it on this thread.
My husband also WILL NOT go outside when it is cold. We were pretty isolated this past Winter due to that very reason. I am dreading for Winter to arrive again. He would not even let us put his coat on because he knew that signaled going outside. How their mind knows some things and not others is just a mystery.
I find that my husband has to be told and told to sit down on the toilet. I think to myself sometimes that he does not know what it is for.
A few years - a lifetime - ago, I stayed in a private home in Japan. I was given a futon in the guestroom/shrine... It was February, it was in the mountains - I was taken up to see the hearby Tyrolean ski village. The carpet in the guestroom was heated (think an enormous old-fashioned heating pad) and so was the toilet seat. This was a prosperous household but I would not think they could afford the thousands of dollars you'd have to pay here to get the heated bidet.
BUT: what about getting a terry-cloth cover for the toilet seat and telling him it's specially made to keep one's butt warm?
My husband has spent the last few years being cold. Wearing layers of clothes and sweating under them. Having one window cracked open when it was 90 degrees outside. I got an a.c. to at least get some cool in, but he readjusted it so that it drained into the ceiling below and eventually last fall I removed it bec. he would turn it on (to air) in the WINTER!
but this summer he has agreed to not wear a shirt over his t-shirt around the house in the heat (we have an old house with many windows open, and a fair amount of shade, so we survive with fans but no a.c.). He agreed last night to not even wear p.j. pants. SO - anything you do to mitigate the problems of today may be out the window tomorrow as your husband changes his behaviors. The only constant I see with this disease is its inconsistency.
Thank you everyone for all your answers. You are all such an inspiration - just when I think I never can do this - I read all these entries and think maybe I can. I did google warm toilet seat and was amazed at the options. I think I'm going to order one of them and try it........maybe it will actually help - I'll let you know.
I thought I would add to the general discussion: We all talk about Depends, as if it's a generic name like Kleenex. There's no one word like "tissues" (at our house we call them "whities" but that's not generally informative. But pull-up diaper-like thingies. You don't have to buy the REAL THING; there are generic brands, at pharmacies and at Wal-Mart, which seem to work just as well. The ones at Wal-Mart cost roughly .50 ea., the others usually cost closer to $1, even on sale. I have found that the Wal-Mart ones seem to fit better; we haven't had leakage since I've been getting them. I would recommend that if you're having leakage you get a smaller size, or you try a different brand. They don't seem to be quite all the same.
Now, I have to tell you: we all are comfortable with discussing things here. I have a newish Mac, and went to the Genius Bar at the local Mac store in the mall today because I was having a few problems. They're really bright and helpful, but I had to wait. They had a wireless hotspot, so I was logging on here to post this when the sweet young Genius came up to help me. I suddenly saw through HER eyes, what IS this woman talking about!! So I quickly closed out and didn't say anything, nor did she.
And went home to be greeted like a long-lost wife. I'd left as his mother a couple of hours earlier!
This is our "New Normal", guys, like NYC after 9/11.
i switched from depends to serenity brand pullups as depends didnt fit as well around the legs. i use a smaller one on bottom and then a larger over that it fits super snug and the clothing looks better over these too. divvi
I just heard from my friend whose husband fell, broke his neck, and is a pariplegic now. She bought the Washlet by Toto and loves it. Costs a lot for a toilet, but I think it could be worth the price - and also something wonderful to use yourself. Google Washlet to see more about it. I think www.washlet.com has a video, but it takes too long for me to download.
This is very interesting. How expensive is this thing?
OK, I kept looking. There are at least half a dozen brands out there and they run between $200 (for a non electrical, stripped down model) to about $1000 without instillation. I could see myself doing this when the right time comes. It would depend on whether or not he could cooperate. Or would cooperate.
I have bidets in our bathrooms which have the same concept as this. my husband really hates this. he does better in the shower and using the shower hose. i have had him many times sit on the bidet and use it to wash, of course i still have to wash his behind and everything that needs it. first off he hates the jet stream that spurts out, and jumps and cusses like crazy:) then he will sit too far back over the toilet seat and i can never get my hand into it comfortably. my hands are always bruised using this method. i the person is ABLE to cooperate and understands direction and how it works then its a good thing, after using ours i wouldnt spend that kind of money on it for use with AD. just my input of course, others may find it handy. divvi
From what I have gone through and am now going through with my husband I would not recommend anything much with the expection of their reception of it being good. You just have to stop and remind yourself that they do not understand, and their reasoning and concept of why things are the way they are is all gone. They feel nothing but comfort or discomfort. Even the wind will bother my husband.
I would not dream of using either of those with him, he would not cooperate. The same way that now that I know what I know, I would never waste my money on a walk in shower unless I already had one. My husband would have to be rolled into one in a wheel chair because you would not be able to get him to step into it. Further more I even have to give him a gentle push to even get him to know to sit down on the bath bench. Nothing is normal with them and the more it progresses the less of those things will you need.
I have found by the time I buy one thing with him that works, it changes so quickly that is no longer the answer and I have to come up with something else to get through one more month of this dreadful disease.
Right now he is sitting on the bed behind me as I type, not a clue in the world what is going on. I have just given him his bath and here he sits, not watching me, not doing anything,. that is how it goes on and on and on.
In two weeks I am getting Hospice respite, I visited the place today and it is beautiful. I would love to just go and spend a peaceful week there all by myself, but that will be where I will be taking him. They will keep him for 5 nights, and I am so ready for it. Maybe this will let me last a little longer without total exhaustion.
It is exhausting to have to tell someone every move to make and them still not understand what you are wanting them to do. This is the most hidedious and hateful disease on the face of the earth.
Jane, you sound totally exhausted today. go for your respite and enjoy yourself free of the daily struggles of this caregiving business. i have been online all day searching various facilities for respite care here in my area. its been on my mind as well. i want to get away to a beach in mexico:) for a week.. wish you had someone who could sit with hubby while you got out for a movie or such. divvi.
Jane, where are you going to go? I ask because if someone gave me a week free to go away I've got no idea of where I would go. At some point I probably will get that chance, even if it is after all of this is over.
If it was me, I'd want to go someplace where I had absolutely nothing I had to do, but where I could do stuff if I wanted to do stuff. I'd want all meals provided, but the way they are provided on a cruise - you have choices. And it would have to be someplace where not being part of a couple was OK.
OK, I need help. I have read all these suggestions & inputs. Here's what I'm dealing with. My DH has been incontinent since last March 2007 when he had a TURP procedure to remove a blockage in his bladder...he was standing @ the toilet and would just have to 'wait' while his bladder pushed around the blockage and finally would urinate. NOW, of course, since the surgery, it just "happens" and he doesn't have much control over it...over the last year, the 'urge' did get better, as the dr. said it would, but we started wearing a pad in his undies after an accident in Target. That's just so you know the background I'm dealing with...NOW, we've gone to depends-MOST ABSORBANT, with a pad inside too. This works during the day, but not @ nite. I also bought four 36x36 washable pads for him to sleep on--very soft & comfy & keep me from having to wash sheets all thru the nite. He does sleep through the nite (mostly) -- today I'm up @ 5:30am helping him because he stirred & was getting up & I said "do you need to go to the bathroom"? "Yes" was the reply. OK, so we go into the bathroom & take off wet shorts & T-shirt...then into toilet area for removal of depends/pad...Then he's standing in front of the toilet, but cannot "remember" how to grab onto his wee wee to "point & shoot"...this has just started. I try to "show him" but still, he cannot do it. I've tried getting him to "sit down" on the toilet & that works, but then, at some point, he grabs his wee wee & pees onto the floor in front of him! UGH!! That's happened 2x's. What do I do when he can no longer grab his wee wee & go himself? I am thinking just let him wear depends/pads all the time & check him periodically (every 3 hours??) to see if he's wet & then change him if he is. BUT, as I'm changing him (this happened 2x's yesterday) before I can get him cleaned up (using the no-rinse-foaming cleanser mentioned in this section), he starts to pee!! I am at my wits end. And I am struggling because I feel like he gets more tense if I'm more tense, but honestly, I just cannot keep mopping up urine over & over & over again during the day. I am exhausted from yesterday of doing this...so I find myself HURRYING to get him cleaned up & in the process, not using the "warm water" I usually do, standing back a bit so as not to get "pee'd on", etc. HELP!!!!! Someone suggested having him aim @ the bathtub, but if he can't hold his own wee wee, what do i do?? Is anyone else dealing with this particular situation?
Natsmom, you are in a pickle here if he cant do his own aiming:) if it were me, i'd use the depends double them a larger size on top of smaller tightr one. i found serenity brand s-msize fits my DH skinny legs much better than depends.then i put a large size over that. works really well for me. i also bought some plastic pants like they used for babies in the early times at the local medical supply. if i am out where i dont want an accident i put them on as well they fit well around his legs too -but in the heat in Tx he sweats profusely with plastic over diaper so be cautious ifyou live in hot weather. my DH also suffers BHP enlarged prostate and is on meds for spasms and flow issues. it has been a source for uti for some time now. dr wants to do the new laser surgery on prostate to reduce but it can be tricky and may not guarantee a good outcome. i read where it can actually cause what you are dealing with, the ll leakages and the feeling of voiding all the time -many different side effects can occur. i would do this as a last resort thing and will continue the meds for as long as possible. your DH obviously doesnt remember how to 'go' now- so in my opinion you should use the diaper fulltime and change him often during the day. this gets pricey using two diapers several times/day)i will probably be in your shoes at some point too with having the prostate reduced with lazer it is not something i look forward too- concentrate on keeping him clean/dry to avoid infections and doing the least damage to your home by keeping him in them fulltime at this point -hoping you find a solution that works! divvi =and if you live where its cool try those plastic pants -
Natsmom, I went through exactly the same thing as my husband was going from partial incontinence to total incontience, until he reached the stage that he no longer recognized the urge to go. I had the depends on him all that time but it still did not help because he would try to go anyway and not make it. It goes with the territory. I had a problem forever with the night time as you will see I am the one who first started this incontinence thread. The night time has finally been dealt with once Hospice stepped in. They had me start using the diaper at night, a larger one than he needed so it would overlap well, I also in the middle of the diaper place a Tena PAD so that there is extra protection. I then pull a Depend over the diaper and we are usually dry as far as pajames, bedding and such when morning comes. The diaper and pad contain the urine and such very well.
Thanks Divvi, Briegull & Jane -- We already do the "nite-time" thing with the depends & pad inserted & altho we still have leaking, it's okay because I also have a 36x36 washable pad on the top of our fitted sheet & that, along with his shorts & t-shirt, are usually the only thing I have to wash. I had a "thought from God" today after I typed in my question early early...I remembered that we had purchased a "hand-held urinal" before his surgery last March (2007) & I got that out today & it worked during the day -- he stands there & I put it over the penis & then, once the water is running, he goes. It worked 2x's today...then tonite, for #2 & sitting on the pot, out came the pee pee & all over the floor -- even with a 36x36 plastic absorbant pad on the floor...my mop is getting a work out! After that, he did get into the shower & now is sleeping happily in bed...even agreed to brush his teeth tonite. But it wasn't easy doing ANY of this. He was just angry tonite for some reason. It's hard to deal with him (205 lbs) when he's 'angry'...but now he sleeps. Perhaps tomorrow will be a better day. Thanks again ladies!
Yes, I do. I have 36x36 washable pads that keep "his side" contained to that. But honestly, I'm thinking of getting a "monitor" type system so I can get "restful" sleep...here I am up at 6:15 am again, after getting him all changed, and I didn't get to bed until about 12:15 or so...that was after up @ 5:30am yesterday...so not much sleep. He is restless at night & snores, but I've always been afraid to "not be" with him in bed because if he needed me, I wouldn't be there. The monitor may solve this problem.
I have another question. If you have stopped sleeping with your LOs, at what point did that happen. And I am talking about sleeping. <grin>
Have any of your LOs started to sleep in a hospital bed, and if so, at what point did that happen? I'm just trying to know what is coming, when and why.
I sleepin the same bed with DH after all this time. he goes to the bathroom 4-5times at nite due to large intake of water to keep him hydrated for uti's. it works but the tradoff is up all nite. i started getting up with him about 6mos ago as he slipped in his pee on his way back to bed and hurt his knee (knee had 'total replacement many yrs ago) and scraped his hand. i was so thankful he didnt break anything, so i feel its worth it to accompany him every! time he goes. its hard not getting that 'rhem'? sleep we need. i walk him by the arm back/forth. he has enlarged prostate so going to bathroom is alot even with meds its another tradeoff without bladder meds he doesnt go at all-thus possible uti, and with them he goes alot..sigh..as far as hospital bed that will be an open option as things progress and if he would be confined to bed for periods of time, and would need the railings . not there yet but yes these are things to consider for future =divvi
I skimmed all the above posts and don't see anyone mentioning using reusable products. Has anyone tried them? I looked on line and found one brief that says it can hold 6 oz of fluid, which would work for us at this point. I am having nightmares about the landfill! I always had cloth diapers for my babies - one of those, I know... I would like to know if anyone has tried any of the products out there.
Nine years ago, the last time my husband was in the hospital with his recurring strep infection, he came home to visiting nurses, IV vancomycin, bedside commode, hospital bed, stair glide.. the works! The VN gradually got him up and walking and he even started walking slowly, with walking cane, around the block, for several years, although in that time I noticed that he was also getting weird now and again, which is why I can't say when IT started. At that time I moved into one of the kid's rooms and have stayed there, through the wall from his room. He loves his hospital bed; he keeps one side up and hangs his shirt, trousers, whatever on it. Medicare supplied it, but after a time you own it, ditto the other things (except the stair glide) which were tax deductible. I must say, I sleep much better in my own room than I ever did with him!
briegull - we live in a motorhome - no second bedroom! What I really want to know - has anyone used incontinent supplies that are reusable? I don't mind the laundry as much as the disposables that go to the landfill...
We're not there yet, thank goodness, but since you asked, I looked, and can't even find reusable incontinent supplies for adults. Hopefully, someone else can help you.
I found them - google - reusable incontinent supplies. I just don't know if any of them work. One mentioned holding 6 oz. of fluid and it looks like regular men's shorts. If no one has tried them I may order and become 'consumer reports' for this site.
You know, Fran, you might want to use them daytimes, and then still use the disposables at night when I think 6 oz is not considered enough! ESPECIALLY if you're sharing the bed with him...
I want to know if I win some sort of prize for what I just did? (If you easily gross out, don't read the following.) DH has been constipated and we addressed that to the point he was passing 'wet farts' if you know what I mean. I'm trying to find just the right amount of water,prunes, and stool softener to work but not cause going in the opposite direction. Today DH became extremely panicked, was trying to pass stools, and wanted me to take him to the hospital! This is my first - I used Cottonelle wipes to sort of dig out the stools sitting right at the opening but he couldn't pass. It was very painful to him and I finally called the doctor, but how am I going to go to the store for a Fleet and leave him here? Eventually DH ended up pulling out dry turds and passing them to me to throw in the toilet! I am giving him prunes and water for the future while this is going on and calling the pharmacy to see how long I need to wait to give more lorazepam. I could hardly believe how much he was shaking .Then, eventually we get the crisis over and he pooped more soft fecal matter than I can imagine being created in the last two days for a fella that eats so little. End of story - DH is sound asleep after we congratulated ourselves on taking care of a crisis on our own. I even got him to smile! I would never have thought I could do something like this, but I did!
Question, not incontinence, but same function! DH is currently experiencing (at least he says he is) urinary urgency and frequency and a burning sensation in thighs and scrotum. He's had the same problem about 9 months ago. In spite of the "frequency" problem he describes, he is able to sleep at night without problem, and sat through the Batman movie with no problem.
Anyone else getting these sort of complaints? We've done (repeatedly) urine testing, prostate meds, creams, etc.
Frand, you definately win todays 'prize'..:) i have been the recipient of this golden trophy many times in the near past. sounds like your DH is NOT getting enough fluids. dry looking feces is dehydration, we used to get this a while back before a very wise kidney dr told me, get 64oz of plain water into him DAILY hell or high water. well i am a firm believer now many of DH issues like, uti, bladder retention, constipation, has subsided. water is basis for all body functions basically without enough dehydration sets in so fast you wont know what hit. even here with triple digit heat for 44days in a row, i have to drink bottles the whole day to keep from getting headaches. these poor guys are even more prone to any kind of body function issues. i use the glycerin suppositories and they help lubricate without the enema. or plain ole vaseline, Frand. i know this is going to freak out everyone who has issues with the poop patrol, but people its part of AD!! sooner or later, you will have to confront your fears so better to get the info out there..Frand, my congrats, see, we CAN do things we never wanted to do..:)i say bless you for your poor hubby! he appreciates your efforts i am sure. divvi
I have two suggestions for constipation 1-Fleets oil retention enema-very easy to give and more gentle (and pleasant) then digging out 2-glycerine rectal supposatories. Of course as much water to drink as possible. Old nurses' formula: 1 part apple sauce, 1 part bran and 1 part prune juice old nurse, bluedaze
Pat- I put my DH thru a battery of tests for prostate, bladder issues some time ago. it was terrible for him but we had to know what was his problem, they did tortorous things to him while i watched and poor guy bore the brunt of it to his tributes. they found with the AD he has bladder spasming- the brain is sending mixed signals to the bladder where it cant decifer whether it should stop the flow or if its has a sensation of fullness. its an ongoing thing and we are on enablex to calm the spasming and he seems to do much better now. i give every other day as daily stops him from going all together. so only every other day. all i can say is the AD produces all kinds of misfunctions in the body. eventually all organs will suffer the consequences. i hope you can find out what to do for him, we feel helpless when they are in pain, divvi
Okay, re uti infections. I am not obese, not QUITE, but I have those inner-thigh fats that are uncomfortable when I sleep without p.j.s in the summer. I put baby-powder on them. I started to feel like *I* had a uti, indeed even got some cipro from the doctor.
But then I've been wondering if the baby powder could be causing the problem. COuld it be a problem for your spouses - do you powder them? (I don't powder my husband although when he was in the hospital the nurses were quite determined to lotion and powder him)