some important questions may be coming for us in the days ahead. this flu is speading and the fact that our spouses with AD will be in the line of fire if they get sick or exposed what will our choice of action be for them. they are saying a specific flu vaccine for this swine flu iis in the making maybe ready by may or in the works. ? alot of our spouses are in nursing homes. others like me here at home. with me being the only caregiver for him i worry about whatifs. i doubt the agency i use would be sending out an aide to stay with him if i got sick and had to go to hospital. and we know NO FAMILY member would want the exposure either to help out.. or is he got sick and have to take them to the ER or call dr for direction. then if needed giving the tamiflu or relenza to an AD person =its a mess, relenza has to be inhaled i doubt mine could do that -but tamiflu may not be available ==taking these antivirals can can cause lots of issues with normal folks.. i guess if your life is on the line you do whats necessary. what are your plans ? i would like to know what others would do.. divvi
They have said in the Portland/Vancouver area to not go to the ER or Dr office if you suspect you have the swine flu. They say call first and you will be given instructions as to where to go. The assumption is they will have a separate entrance for suspected swine flu cases. For once they are being sensible.
I heard tamiflu is working, but only time will tell.
At the stage my husband is currently in, I got him the flu vaccine last fall. I'll get him the swine flu vaccine when it becomes available. Today's news suggested that they think there might be a second wave of the flu during the fall, so they are working on a vaccine for it.
As for tamiflu, what they showed on the news today was pills, not something that could be inhaled. I'd worry about that if and when it happens.
Funny thing, divvi. I have been dealing with this issue somewhat for the last two weeks. That's why I have not been active here on line. My dh was exposed to some mild flu like symptoms (fever of 101, cough, general sick all over feeling). This turned into bronchitis. Not good under normal circumstances, but with dementia, you guessed right, it was terrible. The past 10 days have been the worst. He has been on his regular meds (Namenda, Paxel, Risperdal, Depakote) and also on Amoxicillin and Cortizone for his lungs and cough syrup with codine. NICE!!!! NOT.....Needless to say "All night, All day" never a rest anywhere. Cognition out the window, hallucinations, you name it! He is still not right even though he is off the Cortizone tabs and Codine syrup. His fever is down and staying down, finally. I am worn out and so is he. He just might have lost some neuro pathways with this one. If the H1N1 takes hold they are done for.....I have been thinking of this very issue today, too. If that happens now in the stage we are in, I would say that it's over.....M
tamiflu is pills but relenza the other drug is inhaled from disks.. not for AD thats for sure.. tamiflu is more well known but may be in shortage at some point. divvi
Our daughter works in a rite-aid pharmacy. I don't know the point at which she'll start wearing a mask, but if it's really around here, I may encourage her to go stay with a friend (who lives alone) so we don't get exposed through her. And yes, I will give us tamiflu anyhow...
I think it would be a wise idea to have some extra food on hand. Not stockpile stuff like people did at Y2K, but just extra of what you normally use. If you buy tuna, buy a couple of extra cans, etc. Then if the flu does hit your area, you can stay home and not be exposed to more people than necessary. Of course, that might be hard on your sanity--but that's another story.
Since we never go anywhere in public...and when I do, he stays in the car........ I wonder what the chanches are that he would CATCH anything. I hope this is just alot of reporter hype..since there isn't a pirate kidnapping or other big news thing going on. The two cases in central Texas were described as very mild. I think our greatest danger at the present time is panic.
My grandmother died in the big "1919 flu epidemic" when my mother was only 2 months old. There were no doctors or drugs at the time to treat it. I fear the big problem in Mexico is tied to the huge poverty level. One reporter said many people there never go to the doctor.
If swine flu hit our area I would give my stage 6 husband the vaccine if I could get it. Flu is not a gentle way to die. If given a choice between seeing a child of one of the caregivers or my husband getting the vaccine I would opt for the child.
I don't know for sure, but isn't it true that really bad flu goes into pneumonia? We've talked about pneumonia before on other threads. I am really not worried about my DH catching communicable diseases because of his limited (if not total) exposure to other people. Our housekeeper is a germaphobe, and disinfects everything. I asked her to always disinfect the bathroom and toilet area...and in so doing, created a monster!... She wipes doorknobs, telephones, EVERYTHING..with disinectant. Smells like a hospital when she leaves. LOL!!!
My husband never gets the flu bugs. My daughter never gets the flu bugs. I used to get every flu bug that came around FIRST. And kept it until after everyone else was well! Then, in 1996 I began taking the flu shots each year and haven't had the flu since. For some unknown reason, my husband and my daughter seem to have excellent immune systems. I don't think that I will give him anything for the swine flu. Of course, if one-half the state comes down with it, I reserve the right to change my mind!
Good question, Divvi, under our present circumstances.
MMarshall brought up the problems with our spouses if they should contract regular flu, and that seems bad enough! I hope your husband recovers more and that you don't come down with it!
Well, the first child has died in the US, in Texas. There are a total of 5 people in the hospital, but there are now over 100 cases at the high school in Queens.
I think all of the public health people are doing the right thing. And I keep thinking that when they vaccine everyone back in the 80s with the result of no epidemic they did the right thing then too. There was no epidemic BECAUSE they got everyone vaccined.
Same thing with Y2K. There was no disaster BECAUSE those of us (yes, me included) did what we needed to do to stop the disaster in its tracks. The government mandated that all banks deal with Y2K by June 1999. When I found a Y2K bug in the mortgage reports in October it turned out that the database was fine, it was the reporting software that was messed up, and we solved the problem by not using that reporting software. But when I found the bug EVERYTHING stopped and EVERYONE took it seriously until we had an answer.
It is the same with this flu. The health people are making the right decisions. The woman who came off the plane in Philadelphia with symptoms was taken to the hospital right away and tested. Turned out she didn't have the disease. That was the right thing to do.
They always say (with the seasonal flu) that those at risk should get the shot; also those around the person at risk should get the shot, otherwise they might bring the flu to the high risk person.
In this case, if our LO gets the flu, it puts us, the caregivers at greater risk to get the flu. Same scenario applies to this flu. Anyone who does not get immunized (when available) is more likely to not only get the flu, but also add to it's spread (esp. to the caregiver and immediate family).
The news just announced that the child who died in San Antonio with the flu had come in from Mexico City 3-4 days earlier and was not a US citizen. I believe we need to be very careful about allowing casual travelers into the USA from Mexico. It makes sense to have some sort of quarantine, wouldn't you agree? They are saying on news as I type, that if you are feeling sick, stay home. I wonder if the mother of the child knew she was sick and brought her to Texas for treatment?
Update: The little boy was brought across the Texas border for treatment from Mexico, (he had underlying health problems as well) and was then brought to Texas Children's hospital by medical transport for further treatment. He was never in the presence of other children and the doctors and nurses at Texas Children's Hospital said they used all necessary precautions. The child's parents are currently beeing watched carefully, as the incubation period for those exposed is 24/36 hours.
In answer to the question, I would give the vaccine to prevent him from getting it and giving it to someone else. I would not give it as a treatment measure to prolong this agony.
My daughter's job means flying daily. Corporate just issued and blurb cancelling all meetings and flights. Their medical directer is showing more concern than we are seeing on CNN or even statements issued by the CDC
I just received a very concerning e-mail listing disturbing facts. I called our local health food store and they are recommending Elderberry, Elderberry, Elderberry as a anti-toxon. Take now or at first sign of scratchy throat. I am picking up in the morning.
for the last couple of days i have been spraying our throats with the chloroseptic spray just in case. it will kill any germs in the mouth. cant hurt! plus using the hand sanitizer everytime i get in/out of my car if i go out. and not taking into public areas DHunless emergency. more school closings around us. they wouldnt do that unless they were worried. i agree MMarshall a flu of any sorts would be detrimental to AD spouse. hope your DHis better!! divvi
The Houston Public Health Director just announced on TV that the only way the virus can be transmitted is through direct droplets from a sneeze or cough. It is not atmospheric..and if one sneezes outdoors, chances are the virus germ is killed almost immediately in the sunlight. Washing hands and avoid kissing when greeting someone (the Spanish way and commonplace in our part of Texas) is advised. The repeated message is to avoid panic, don't listen to rumors, keep tuned to theTV for informed people to give you advice. Don't waste money on things you wouldn't ordinarily buy. (Some people were stocking up on water, canned foods, etc.). Keep your head and don't let rumors replace the truth and facts at hand. It's flu, not the plague. The people in Houston who have been diagnosed, are for the most part well now. It's taken several days to get the original test results back.
well if someone ill sneezes into their hand and touches a shopping cart or object someone else could touch afterwards, you can get it that way i do believe. i would still use the hand sanitizer just to be sure. we cant assume everyone will follow directions and sneeze into kleenex or their elbow.. ugh..divvi
A friend of ours is a Dr. down in the San Marcos/NB area and sent this out. I felt it contained some insightful stuff not seen on the news. Marc is a very intelligent and "with it" guy, he worked as a botanist for Pfizer in South America...then decided to become a Dr.
I hope it helps answer some questions and it does have some good suggestions for alternative medications ect.
"After I returned from a public health meeting yesterday with community leaders and school officials in Comal County, Heather suggested I send an update to everyone, because what we are hearing privately from the CDC and Health Department is so different from what you are hearing in the media. Some of you know some or maybe all of this, but I will just list what facts I know.
- The virus is infectious for about 2 days prior to symptom onset - Virus sheds more than 7 days after symptom onset (possibly as long as 9 days) (this is unusual) - Since it is such a novel (new) virus, there is no "herd immunity," so the "attack rate" is very high. This is the percentage of people who come down with a virus if exposed. Almost everyone who is exposed to this virus will become infected, though not all will be symptomatc. That is much higher than seasonal flu, which averages 10-15%. The "clinical attack rate" may be around 40-50%. This is the number of people who show symptoms. This is a huge number. It is hard to convey the seriousness of this. - The virulence (deadliness) of this virus is as bad here as in Mexico, and there are folks on ventilators here in the US, right now. This has not been in the media, but a 23 month old near here is fighting for his life, and a pregnant woman just south of San Antonio is fighting for her life. In Mexico, these folks might have died already, but here in the US, folks are getting Tamiflu or Relenza quickly, and we have ready access to ventilators. What this means is that within a couple of weeks, regional hospitals will likely become overwhelmed. - Some of the kids with positive cases in Comal County had more than 70 contacts before diagnosis. - There are 10-25 times more actual cases (not "possible" cases -- actual), than what is being reported in the media. The way they fudge on reporting this is that it takes 3 days to get the confirmatory nod from the CDC on a given viral culture, but based on epidemiological grounds, we know that there are more than 10 cases for each "confirmed" case right now. - During the night, we crossed the threshold for the definition of a WHO, Phase 6 global pandemic. This has not happened in any of our lifetimes so far. We are in uncharted territory. - I expect President Obama will declare an emergency sometime in the next 72-96 hours. This may not happen, but if it doesn't, I will be surprised. When this happens, all public gathering will be cancelled for 10 days. - I suggest all of us avoid public gatherings. Outdoor activities are not as likely to lead to infection. It is contained areas and close contact that are the biggest risk. - Tamiflu is running out. There is a national stockpile, but it will have to be carefully managed, as it is not enough to treat the likely number of infections when this is full-blown. I don't think there is a big supply of Relenza, but I do not know those numbers. If I had to choose, I would take Relenza, as I think it gets more drug to the affected tissue than Tamiflu. - You should avoid going to the ER if you think you have been exposed or are symptomatic. ER's south of here are becoming overwhelmed -- and I mean that -- already. It is coming in waves, but the waves are getting bigger. - It appears that this flu produces a distinctive "hoarseness" in many victims. The symptoms, in general, match other flu's; namely, sore throat, body aches, headache, cough, and fever. Some have all these symptoms, while others may have only one or two. - N-Acetyl-Cysteine -- a nutritional supplement available at the health food store or Wimberley Pharmacy, has been shown to prevent or lessen the severity of influenza. I suggest 1200mg, twice a day for adults, and 600mg twice a day in kids over 12. It would be hard to get kids under 12 to take it, but you could try opening the capsules and putting it on yogurt. For 40 pounds and up, 300-600 mg twice a day, for less than 40 pounds, half that. - Oscillococinum, a homeopathic remedy, has been vindicated as quite effective in a large clinical trial in Europe, with an H1N1 variant. You can buy this at Hill Country Natural Foods, or the Wimberley Pharmacy.
Imohr, I just checked on snopes.com and the email was really written by a Dr. Marcus Gitterle. However, after being reprimanded by the medical community he has said that he orignially sent the email to close friend and family members and that it was re worded and edited as it was passed on. He regrets sending the message and states that he encourages everyone to follow their local health officals advice?????????? So what it is worth, the herbs might be worth a try.
My son in law is a top education official in San Marcos Tx, and has attended briefings held by State Health Officials every morning for a week. He didn't agree with the copy of the doctor's letter I sent it to him. They are practicing caution, and have plans in place, but he said the worst enemy now is rumors and panic. He stressed two points. One is that EVERYYEAR, over 38,000 people in the US die of flu..(various kinds) This is EVERY YEAR!!!!! and that Swine Flu is a relatively mild strain of flu. It does respond to Tamiflu if the patient goes to the doctor promptly. This is the current message they are being issued.
There is some suggestion coming out now that people over 60 have some immunity to the virus, and that roughly 2/3 of the deaths and cases in Mexico are NOT that virus.
I read today that the flu virus in 1918 was H1N1 and that it recurred as the "Russian flu" in 1977. This suggests that the reason this one seems to be worse in younger peoople is that they have not previously experience the virus, while those of us born well before 1977 have probably been exposed and have some immunity.
The word out now is that the flu is a milder variety than was thought at first. In Holland they are expecting problems in the fall when so many people are expected to be struck that (public) businesses will find it hard to maintain an acceptable level of service. Since older people are less at risk, I don't expect to be taking any preparatory measures. Good idea to have a good food supply at hand.
This thread caught my attention for two reasons; 1.) the replies stopped on on May 2nd, then began again roughly an hour ago, and 2.) for a lack of discussion as to the role the human immune system plays in preventing disease, and viral infections such as, say, the flu. Any type flu.
I cannot speak for the "elderly" since I'm not a member, but there is much research been done as to why typical flu seasons occur during the fall and winter seasons. For instance, during the 1918 flu outbreak 100s of thousands, if not millions of young soldiers were returning to their homes after years of war on battlefields in Europe. These soldiers all had one thing in common, besides the horrors of war they had experienced. They had all been given many many shots, vaccines and you name it as a, very new, form of disease prevention. These basically healthy young men were some of the first to die as a result of this flu outbreak. Most of them from resulting symptoms of pneumonia. Their immune systems went into 'overdrive', you might say. In theory, stimulating the immune system against this threat, or that, is how a vaccine should work in regards to protecting a person from the specified threat. The facts are that modern medicine isn't that well understood as to how this process works, or doesn't work.
First off, there is a certain amount of contamination involved in the manufacturing process of these vaccines. There is also the common sensical flaw in the assumptions of those who administer these vaccines that "one size fits all". And, long term safety studies are not performed. The science just "assumes" they are safe. I've never had one, and never will.
Having said that, what does flu have to do with seasons? During the 1918 outbreak the world had so many young men carrying germs home with them which were completely foreign to those at home. There is much less sunlight during the fall and winter months no matter what hemisphere one lives in. When exposed to sunlight the human body produces what is commonly called vitamin D. (which I don't think is actually a "vitamin") But, anyway, there is recent research that indicates a lack of sunlight, and of course, less fresh foods available during the late fall and winter seasons, leads to an explanation of why flu is prevalent during these times. D, especially in D3 form, as a supplement to your diet is probably a better protection against flu bugs than any vaccine concocted in a lab somewhere.
The human immune system is much better at protecting itself from disease than it is publicly given credit for by modern science. I have no agenda and am not criticising anyone who chooses to take these vaccines. Just pointing out that there are alternatives. And also that we all have to do our own research into these matters.
The only vaccine I have ever had was small pox polio (when the sugar cube came out around 63). I needed the small pox to enter school when I went to Maine to live with my sister for a year in 1966. I had on tetonis shot in the 70s when I was bitten by a dog but refused the other 2 in the series. My mom did not believe in doctors or vaccines and thankfully where we lived they were not yet required. I had a flu shot once and was sick all winter. Since then, I avoid. I cringe at all the vaccinations my grandkids have gone through before the age of 1.
I do believe the best way to avoid getting the flu is eat healthy and take anti-oxidants.
i believe we are going to have some issues with everyone being expected to get the new vaccine for swine flu thats coming. the govt has allowed the pharmaceutical companies to be exempt of any legal ramnifications due to the rapid need and not enough time for 'testing' for possible side effects. they are saying the need to vaccinate overides the 'possible' side effects. so if millions get bad side effects or its causes unknown issues later - from this new vaccine we will have no recourse against any of the makers. scary. divvi
more worry for me is the millions of school kids that maybe will have vaccinations mandated at SCHOOL. -i heard that is under consideration - lots of ifs. divvi
The CDC reported recently that the Swine Flu Virus has been shown to live only 3-5 hours on surfaces and is primarily transmitted through coughing in a closed space and or touching a damp surface (faucets, flush handles, water fountains) that one just touched with the virus germs on their hands.
The school kids have hand purification lotion on their school supply lists this year in Houston...and teachers will disinfect their desk top, door knobs, etc. every morning with a Lysol-type product and paper towels.
Common sense helps prevent the spread of virus germs. My husband would be a walking epidemic, He blows his nose into his hand if I don't dive in with a tissue.. and NEVER covers his mouth anymore when he coughs. I believe it is my responsibility to AVOID his germs if he should come down with a cold or flu...by wearing gloves and a surgical mask in the house.
That's joking to a degree, but seriously, if he gets a cold or flu this year, he will be a "task" to deal with. He blows his nose on the bed sheets at night and the hand towels in the bathroom. He will blow his nose repeatedly into cloth napkins in restaurants and I want to warn the busboys not to handle them. He has lost all sense of concern, caution or awareness of the impact his action has on me. This is the same man who had impeccible manners, and insisted the grandchildren practice perfect table manners at every meal.
I'm practically a fanatic about handwashing. Neither of us has had a cold/flu in about 5 years. Knock on wood. Now that I've said that, I'll probably be the first one to catch a cold.
Vitimans, Mediterraen diet and frequent handwashing. Disinfect bathroom, kitchen counters and flat surfaces daily. Also, I add a bit of chlorine to my washwater. Not a lot, just about 1/2 cup per load. That ought to do it.
We do get the regular flu vaccine in October but probably won't be getting the Swine flue vaccine. Doesn't seem to m there's been enough time to work the bugs out of it (no pun intended.
Nancy B - it is wise to take precautions to protect yourself. Remember the saying: Moms/wives can't get sick! You can't for two reasons: him and more important there is no one to take care of you. So, take all the precautions you feel necessary to keep yourself healthy.
Briegull, I would think that your daughter, being at Rite Aide, where people are constantly coming in sick, would be offered the vaccine. When I was working as a Medial Assistant last year, we all gave each other the injections as soon as they arrived.
I saw in the paper recently the the Swine flu shots would be given to school children and young adults. According to the article older people don't seem to contact the virus as easy so they would not get it. At least not on the first go around. Has anyone else seen this?
thanks swarfmaker, that news is certainly noteworthy and i hope some decisions are getting made about mandatory vaccines for school kids. this worries me alot. either you get the vaccine or you cant go to school. what a dilemma that will be. divvi from what i am reading the FDA unapproved adjuvant thats been to the swine flu vaccine is Squalene. its the same one that was added supposedly to the anthrax vaccine so many of our soldiers had -alot of side effects can occur -some very serious. maybe swarfmaker has more input on squalene additive and if this is the swine flu adjuvant being used- divvi
Will There Be Immune Adjuvants in Swine Flu Vaccines? The U.S. government has contracts with several drug companies to develop and produce swine flu vaccines. At least two of those companies, Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline, are using an adjuvant in their H1N1 vaccines. The adjuvant? Squalene. According to Meryl Nass, M.D., an authority on the anthrax vaccine, “A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of squalene-containing adjuvants to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities.”[v] Novartis’s proprietary squalene adjuvant for their H1N1 vaccine is MF59. Glaxo’s is ASO3. MF59 has yet to be approved by the FDA for use in any U.S. vaccine, despite its history of use in other countries. Per Dr. Nass, there are only three vaccines in existence using an approved squalene adjuvant. None of the three are approved for use in the U.S.
What Squalene Does to Rats Oil-based vaccination adjuvants like squalene have been proved to generate concentrated, unremitting immune responses over long periods of time.[vi] A 2000 study published in the American Journal of Pathology demonstrated a single injection of the adjuvant squalene into rats triggered “chronic, immune-mediated joint-specific inflammation,” also known as rheumatoid arthritis.[vii] The researchers concluded the study raised questions about the role of adjuvants in chronic inflammatory diseases.
What Squalene Does to Humans Your immune system recognizes squalene as an oil molecule native to your body. It is found throughout your nervous system and brain. In fact, you can consume squalene in olive oil and not only will your immune system recognize it, you will also reap the benefits of its antioxidant properties. The difference between “good” and “bad” squalene is the route by which it enters your body. Injection is an abnormal route of entry which incites your immune system to attack all the squalene in your body, not just the vaccine adjuvant. Your immune system will attempt to destroy the molecule wherever it finds it, including in places where it occurs naturally, and where it is vital to the health of your nervous system.[viii] Gulf War veterans with Gulf War Syndrome (GWS) received anthrax vaccines which contained squalene.[ix] MF59 (the Novartis squalene adjuvant) was an unapproved ingredient in experimental anthrax vaccines and has since been linked to the devastating autoimmune diseases suffered by countless Gulf War vets.[x]