As many of you know, my DH is physically disabled and stage 6 or so dementia. He is 62 and I am 52. I have been caring for him full-time since '00, along with holding down full-time job. So..at work last night I had this sweet (and cute) man say " I mean this with no disrespect, but would I be open to some romancing" I was startled and rattled and didn't answer and he said " I think you are beautiful and I would like to get to know you, are you married?" Even THAT question rattled me. AM I married?
I told him yes, I was married. He replied that my husband was a lucky man.
Now I keep thinking. AM I married? To a 3-6 year old? Is that a marriage?
I know that another relationship is probably not the complication I need right now, but it got me thinking of how lonely I am for adult companionship, for a man to notice me as a grown up, for a life of my own.
How much longer can I do this without acknowledging the fact that I am giving up EVERYTHING for this man that I have been with for 30 years that I still adore but all I get now are glimpses into the man he was.
You aren't the first person to ask that question and there are threads about it.
You aren't the first person to wonder about other adult relationships and there are threads about that too.
You aren't the first person who wishes they were on the other side of the journey, not just for themselves, but also not just for their LO. And there are threads about that too.
Personally I couldnt even begin any type of outside relationship as my whole life is consumed with my own DH and getting thru this with him. its a weary mental journey and many of us have little zip/go to afford to yet another emotional drama. If you are lonely and enjoy the company and your mentality allows you to initiate that type of feeling now, then only you can be the one to decide if you want to go ahead. the only issue i can really see that would worry me, is that in the emotional personal crisis that consumes us and leaves us vulnerable, that could transfer to someone who is only looking for physical and no emotional attachment whatsoever. which i n turn if not understood from the getgo could cause even more drama and misery. some start out on a platonic phase but that can escalate when emotions run amuk. if you decide you can afford yourself the luxury of another mans company then just make sure you have all your emotions in tune beforehand. wishig you all the best, divvi
Hi... I hear your loud and clear divvi. I am in no position for that type of relationship, I am a mess emotionally 90% of the time. I am nowhere near a place that I could let myself be vulnerable with a man. It certainly wouldn't be fair to ANYONE, imho.
What struck me about the conversation and what I was left thinking on, is what is left of my "marriage". And how startled I was to answer it. I desperately miss grown up conversation, connection etc. I need to find that with women. I need to chisel out a life for myself or I will go mad!
I will be very straightforward about this. I am placing my DH of 34 years (I am 60 he is 80). I have been married to him most of my adult life. I love him but not who he has become. He is alive but he is not the same man, he's not even a man, he's a child. I talked with my mother about my feelings as a woman, a very lonely woman, and I intend, when I am over the grief of his being gone to begin to date or at least to be open to some new relationships with men. I think you may be asking for permission or you would have dismissed this man's advance out of hand. If I were you, I'd proceed very slowly and maybe go out for coffee and dessert or an early dinner. Pay attention to how you feel. You are a living woman. I suggest you think about placement for your DH. I now see that I waited too long already. I am placing my DH this Friday, I intend to grieve and then I am getting on with my life. I won't put myself on hold anymore.
This is such a complex subject, and as Starling said, there are many message board topics and blogs about it. Every person is different and must do what they feel is best for them.
But you brought this topic up in a way I don't think we have discussed at length. Are we married? By the laws in the State in which we live - yes, we are married. Some people are very religious, and feel that being married in their church is even more binding than the secular law - I am NOT getting into a religious discussion. So legally and morally, we are married. But are we married in the sense of what an actual marriage means? Partnership; companionship; passion; love; conversation. No, I don't think so. Someone (sorry, can't find his name right now) wrote an article about spousal caregiving that said - "You will become less and less a spouse and more and more a caregiver."
So where does that leave the caregiver spouse? A caregiver; a nurse; a mother/father. But not a spouse. Every single person on this board and in many of my blogs, we have spoken of loneliness. What do you do about the loneliness? How long to do you give up your own needs for companionship and intimacy?
This is a good article on the subject. http://www.forward.com/articles/11387/
A friend recently told me of a man whose wife has been in a care facility for 10 years. She hasn't known him for at least 8 of those 10 years. She is only in her early 60's. About 3 years ago, he said he made the decision to move on with his life. He visits his "wife", sees that she is well cared for, but is in an exclusive relationship with another woman.
No one can make these decisions for us. No one ever imagined that they would have to be made.
I was a volunteer reading teacher at a continuation school when the father of one of the students asked me if I was married. It was so out of the blue, I was unable to answer quickly--clearly--truthfully--whatever. He stood there until I finally got out a muffled 'yes,' then he was gone. In those years I called myself a 'married widow.' What else was I? As much as I loved my DH, as much as I knew I'd care for him as long as humanly possible, I also knew that I was not the kind to jump into the grave with him. My own survival was too strong--it's instinct, not disloyalty. I did fool around with a few coffee meetings when asked, etc, but nothing came of anything. Would I, could I have moved it further along? Well, we all do what we have to do at the moment. In a support group one of the women had full-time help for her AD DH at home, but she also had a gentleman friend and she'd tell us about their week-ends away, etc. I didn't understand how she could keep her emotions on track--but you know, she did and I never doubted her love for her DH.
I do believe, woman-to-woman (men, hold your ears) that those first months of a new relationship can be overwhelming--and it's all soooo good, but it can play havoc with your emotions and, for the moment, your plate is overflowing with full time care & full time work. It's always gratifying to be asked, especially when our true LO is in another world. Only you know the answers.
Sheltifan, I do think I know what you are trying to say. The question was asked to you are you married and that made you stop and realize for the very first time just how your marriage has changed. I tell people I am a married widow, and that is exactly how I feel. I of course would never even think of going out with anyone, my heart is still with my sweet husband, but yet not with the person he has become. Only those of you on this board could understand this.
I am now to a point in the journey that I realize he is gone, other people cannot possibly know how this feels. I am on the verge of tears as I post. So yes,Sheltifan I feel your pain.
I feel the same way and yes I have more male friends then girls write now.I dont know the answers I think I am loosing my mind at times.And N0 he isnt the same men I married 16 years ago,I will be placing him in a home this summer I have to get on with my life.I know this sounds alttle bit selfish but he also wants me to be happy he is a very caring man still.The AD hasent effected his humor but he does cry very easy I walk on eggshells and try to be patient what a job.
I am worried that later on after all is said and done i may hold grudges for losing the best yrs of my life being a caregiver. I love my DH with all my heart, but when you go from your mid 40's to mid 50's and maybe beyond you are told these are your golden yrs. when i am over and able to have alife of my own again, it may welll be into my 60's maybe. i wont have the youth, looks, or health i had when i began his care ever again. i not only weep for the loss of my spouse as a partner-companion-lover- but also for the part of me who has been lost and buried along with all the rest of it- the devastating part is that there is nothing really to show of it in the longrun except the knowledge that i gave him the best yrs of my life and he didnt even know it. Divvi
Since I am in the beginning I probably have years before I have to actually deal with this. But, my thoughts while reading all the threads on the subject of a new involvement is: do I want to really chance getting married again and having to be caregiver for another spouse? He would really have to be someone very, very special - someone I felt as a soul mate.
I have been the 'head' our whole married life. He was willing to let me control money, kids and decisions. And since my mom brought us girls up to be independent, I did not question it. I am tired of being the dependable, reliable, responsible, the caregiver first of children and now him. When is it my time? I don't want it my time if that means when I am sick. But, as I said, do I want to risk being a caregiver a few years down the road?? (I will most likely be in my late 60s if/when it happens) There will still be lots of life left - hopefully. Just pondering.
I really worry about you young ones who are on this terrible journey into the AD world. I know at my age (81) that I may not have many years left and I don't have the energy needed just to make it through some days. I know it has made me a stronger person and I can survive by myself if I have to. I try to be upbeat when I talk to my family and friends and even when I post here, I try to keep my sense of humor and see the glass as half full and not half empty. I do have my pity parties and wonder if I will survive. Hey, I know one thing if there is ever a next time I Will Be The Girlfriend......LOL
Charlotte, I know what you mean. Many of us were the strong ones in the family relationship all along. How very much, just for once, I'd like to have someone to take care of ME. I feel like I haven't ever in all my life, though my daughter's dear care comes closest to it when I'm ailing. I'm too old and too cynical to want to take anyone else on when this is over, thank you!!
Many on this board have expressed the same sentiment - They said they would NEVER marry again for fear of becoming a AD caregiver again OR becoming the AD patient themselves, and placing the caregiving burden on their new spouse.
However, when our spouses do die, we don't have to marry to have companionship and anything else we desire from a relationship.
If you don't mind a little humor here - I have mentioned this before - my friend says she will get a "pool boy" , and she doesn't even have a pool!
My DH took care of his first wife who died of MS. Now, I'm taking care of him. He somewhat knows what I'm going through. BUT...he DID take care of me for the past 36 years and treated me like a princess. Another BUT...like briegull, I don't want to take anyone else on when this is over!
I cannot even imagine risking my heart again. It is so broken, I don't think there will be a chance of being strong enough to take on all that goes with a relationship. I just want time for me, time with my friends, my kids, my grandkids. I'm 53, DH is almost 62, doctors say he only has a couple more years before FTD wins. Why would I want to take on more responsibility. We have only been married 5 1/2 yrs. I was single for over 10 yrs after my divorce. I took a big risk with my heart when I fell in love with Jim. We had something very special, but it changed very quickly, little did I know what was ahead. I've been the caregiver all my life, in one capacity or another. When this is all over, if I don''t die of a broken heart, I will take care of Dylan and Me.
i have a hunky pool boy. plus he strips down to the ??? to get into my pool --haha. looks like matthew mcconehy.tanned, muscled six pack and all. .hes been coming for 10yrs now -shoulda coulda woulda?.i may take to take better look on thurs.. heheh. divvi
hey werent we gonna do the Desperate Spouses soap opera ??
divvi - you mentioned 'six packs' -- anyone see that commercial where they spray paint them on a less than perfect shaped man? Have no idea what the ad was for, but remember that.
Nikki, Regarding your statement - "The key I think, would be to find someone who loves you enough, to understand your situation. Married by law, windowed in heart. One who would understand your dear spouse MUST always come first. I think you CAN still love your AD spouse, and still find another love."
I think this is why so many men and women who are "widowed in heart" end up in relationships with members of their support group. They are the only ones who can truly understand what each is going through.
Food for thought here.. Married but widowed.. Married but single.. Married but a caregiver/mother figure.. I agree with Joan, it would need to be a special someone who did understand.. Furthermore, Divvi.. if that pool feller can clean rugsss too.. I have to smile.. for some reason I'm stuck with the idea of you and cartwheels!..Otherwise, this has to be a personal decision and honestly I wouldn't have the energy to devote to it. Most of the time I feel like a wrung out dishrag.. But the notion of having a cup of coffee with someone that could actually have a conversation might be a joy if it was just that simple. Otherwise can't add more stress or use any more energy .
A friend gave me a bottle of ACAI that is supposed to have lots of vitamins and will increase energy.. I don't know what to expect but maybe it will work and thats just to get through what has to be done here with NO complications.. It does taste good..but thats all I've noticed.. She said drink one jigger morning and night.. Tastes like berry juice.
gee, i am just fooling around here, messing with yall. he is cute pool guy but i have NO interest in anything remotely looking like a man.. both DH and i have a stomach virus today..that should keep me busy for a while . he actually went to bathroom by himself today. can you see my shock::? personally if some hunk paid any attention to ANY of us in the emotional state we are in we'd probably cry right there.. haha.
i am gonna try another cartwheel into my pool when it warms up.. i wont bust my **** too bad that way like before..:) my grandaughter has not let that dog lie...she tells everyone and says she wishes she had her 'phone' to take my pic..shes six...
They need to rewrite the marriage vows. In sickness and in health but not alzihiemers. I can not think of a harder test of the marriage vows than this disease. We are not super humans, we are flesh and blood. Our mates are nolonger meeting our needs and we are doing everything possible to meet their needs. We hope that they would do the same for us if the shoe were on the other foot. How much are we required to sacrifice? Do we give till there is nothing left? Most people would not understand what is going on. There has to be a comprimise position. One part of me says I should look out for myself, I did not cause her to have this disease. The only thing is my conscience would not allow me to do that, I have to live with myself at the end of the day and feel that I did the right thing. I have to be able to look myself in the mirror when this is over and say I did all that I could do. I do hope to remarry some day when this is all over and I can move on. Till that time I am comitted to her. I am telling myself when she does not know who I am, I will be free of the marriage vow, but not completely I intend to see her thru and make sure her needs are met. I do not know if I will be able to find someone who can understand the situation and feel comfortable with what I want to do.
I never dreamed that this subject would ever come up...I am a married widower, and only in the past two weeks, have I been honestly able to say Yes I am married, but widowed. I feel like I will never again have a relationship with a woman, and that may be the final end of my sex life as well. Yes I married till death do we part, richer or poorer (turned out poorer), for better or worse..(wow they really meant worse). By the time ad conquers my wife, I may become too old for viagra, too devastated to risk my heart with someone else. Yes I have been looking at other women for some time now, wondering if I get enough courage to develop a relationship. I bought some spray paint for the six pack, but the colors ran when I jumped into the pool...I am no longer a pool boy, but a pool man....If I were loaded, I could probably find a trophy wife girlfriend, but I still have integrity and moral values. I have already decided that I will try to find a relationship, but it will take quite a woman to tolerate my situation. If anything happens at all, it will be after hours of discussing everything, and working out any concerns between us. I certainly want to make sure she would understand my responsibility towards my wife. If I was sure that no one would get hurt, then I would consider it...but the involvement seems so complex that I will most likely spend my "golden years" as a celibate ....
Thank you all for your input. I think Jane hit it on the head when she said that the question just vibrated in me..are you married?. I am not looking for anything more at this point, I have my hands full. But that doesn't mean never. Or later. Or when someone really "speaks" to me. Just the question made me ponder what marriage IS and how mine has become so distorted. Not a lack of love tho.... 30 years doesn't shake that.
As a side note, I mentioned this to my husbands younger sister ( very good friends of us both) and she said..go for it. Interesting feedback from her.
I think I can safely say that whatever comes down my path in the rest of my life..marriage will never again enter it. I WANT to be too selfish after this is over. But pool boys don't always want marriage...
Occasionally you come across a few common words put together just so and they strike a cord inside you. Recently, during several different posts on this site that has happened for me. For the almost 5 years since dx, I have looked at myself as a married widow. In fact, I would have taken measures to separate from my DH back then except for the fact that my daughter was preparing to get married and I couldn't rain on her parade. The whole wedding thing brought out the worst in my DH and within days of the wedding we were searching for medical answers. But, I always thought that I was the one who turned things off and detached and in recent days I have come to a new realization that really, it was DH. He had been trying to cope with the oncoming symptoms by himself and focusing on survival at work and at home to the extent that HE was actually the one who was detaching - from me! It makes so much more sense now. I thought he had just stopped loving me because he wouldn't/couldn't respond to me emotionally or physically. I was slowly giving up on him and thus the plans for separation. I couldn't remember anything good about us anymore. Somehow, understanding this makes it a little easier to be here today. And I find comfort in someone's note that the good times slowly start coming back into your memory again once the disease has ended. Thank you all for the words that took just the right path for me to make this new connection.
At this point in the disease, it seems impossible to think about another relationship. It may be years before I would be free. Already, if I were to make plans for even something as simple as having coffee, they would have to bring it to the house, because some days I don’t have enough energy to go meet them somewhere else.
There is a lot of desire for companionship, conversations, etc.—the easy parts of a relationship. But what I realize is that I have absolutely nothing left to offer anyone else. On another topic, I saw where people can recognize other people who have dementia, by the look in their eyes. I think at a certain point, caregivers could recognize other caregivers by the look in their eyes. I know I have that look.
My therapist asked me what I wanted to do when I was no longer providing all the day to day care for my DH. I think she was shocked when I said “Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I don’t want to have to do anything but just “be” for a little while, until my brain and heart and mind heal.” Obviously, that’s not the attitude of a person who is ready for a new relationship!
The events of last few months have had a significant impact on my relationship with my DW. I suppose I have had an ah-ha moment and finally realized that her decline is not only rapid but the possibility exists that she will not be able to be rehabilitated beyond the point where she is now. We will continue to live with with the fear of another, more severe stroke further damaging her body and mind or taking her. In the final analysis AD isn't always the final enemy, but it sure makes fighting any other physical complications much more challenging.
I have become detached from my DW and have now began thinking what the future holds for me, like many of the others I am in my late 60's. Like Phrangue I still have my personal values and my integrity and remain loyal to my DW. I will see to it that she has the best quality of care I can give for as long as she needs it. In the meantime I will continue to keep and maintain as many of my social connections as possible. If you can maintain some of your social contacts they will not only provide you with respite and diversion and most importantly you will continue to meet people with interests and values similar to yours. I know there are many who have more difficult caregiving situations than I have and this may not work for everyone.
I'm sure I will try to find another relationship after this journey ends, I do know it will take a very loving, understanding and special lady to fit into my life.
This site is not into the dating service under any circumstances. However, there was a site for caregivers that does arrange meetings and social events among married caregivers. I received an e-mail about it from the site owner. I have not mentioned it nor recommended it due to my own liability issues. I do not condone or not condone it. But I want nothing to do with it. I don't even know if it still exists.
Kathryn0907,
Very interesting observation. Could it be that women were taking care of everyone in the family before they became full time caregivers to the AD husbands, and are finally ready for time for themselves?
I was thinking the same thing. I wondered if it's because many women have been the primary caretaker for children and possibly did a lot of care taking for their husband even before AD. Also, they say women are more connected to other people than men (whoever ""they" are). If that's true (and I don't know if it is), maybe the loss hits women harder, and they can't bear the thought of going through it again. Why men are more likely to think they would marry again would make an interesting research study. Also, it would be interesting to follow up with members of this group ten years after their care giving ends to see who remarried.
I wouldn't say no way. I hope to discover loving companionship again in my life. I'm 52. We had a very good marriage but I am now a caregiver, not a wife. I stopped wearing my wedding ring several months ago. I always found it uncomfortable anyway. If anyone (kids, friends) has noticed, they haven't said anything.
its the genetic composition in the male to not be as 'monogomous' like females -not saying they cant by any means but that the genetics are geared towards reproduction-relate to the animal world, males duties mainly are to reproduce with as many females as possible to ensure genetic pools. most have groups with usually one male at the head of it and many females he protects. i dont think that has been lost in the humans. men have the instinct to be with more partners but society usually stipulates one at a time- .just my opinion. divvi
As much as I miss intimacy and meaningful conversation, I too am fearful of another potential caregiver role when this is over, and frankly at my age would not want someone to have to care for me. Isn’t it sad what this disease does to our outlook on relationships and life in general?
I was planning a cross-country bicycle trip for the summer I retired, but of course that was not possible after DW’s diagnosis. Maybe when this is over (if I still have my health, a very big IF) I’ll get on my bike and just keep riding into the sunset.
At Brown, where I worked for 20 years, kids came to the academic deanery to get permission to miss exams (they were actually supposed to go to another office, but we always talked to them anyhow) and sometimes it was because a parent had died. We always encouraged them to come back in a few months and let us know how things were going with them. They'd check in, again and again.
Over and over, a year later the fathers had found new relationships after their wives died. And the mothers were finding their way quite happily, figuring out their own personalities.. and NOT forging lasting relationships.
Any of you women ever hear the phrase said by another woman your own age, "I finally figured out what I want to do when I grow up.." Unfortunately, too many of us feel we're NOT grown up when we're in a partnership with a man. I don't think I've ever heard a MAN say that!
Actually, divvi, there are a LOT of animal groups where the male is NOT the head of the group. The males sorta show up and do their thing, but the one who leads the group is a female. The females protect the young, not the males.
briegull ageed -but even then the male shows up just to reproduce and then the females kick him out.haha. good point. i like that community personally::))))) divvi
As I heard someone say once, why do we say that animals like male lions have a harem, rather than saying that female lions have a stud (or pool boy or toy boy)?
I was wondering has anyone considered divorce in the early stages of DH? My DH went to an attorney to seek a divorce from me because he didn't think it was fair for me to lose my inheriance and etc. I am going to be his caregiver and plan on sticking it out until I have to place him. We have been married for 6 years and more than 1/2 of the time he probably had A. Do you think this is a selfish act?
Before you do anything, read the thread on this - http://thealzheimerspouse.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1252&page=1 Lots of good information in there. There is no need to divorce to save assets. Anyone answering beachgirl, please post under that thread - I will bring it to the top for everyone.
As a male, I do not think I will ever have another relationship again. I will definitely not become a caregiver to someone else. Marriage?? Probably not. I have changed since ad, and I would run if I even saw only 1 symptom of stage 1. I may eventually date occasionally, but I fear that this disease has ruined my chances of establishing another relationship.It would take quite a woman..one that could put wind back into my sails....