OK, one of the unusual properties of MCT oils (including coconut oil) is that they have a very sharp melting point. They are oils in the warmer temperatures where coconuts typically grow, but tend to solidify in more temperate climates. Unlike other oils, coconut oil passes rather abruptly from butter solid to liquid within a narrow temperature range, rather than exhibiting a gradual softening with increasing temperature. So coconut oil might be easier to use by cooking with it (somebody mentioned mixing them into scrambled eggs), or blending it into smoothies (or a pina colada!), etc. Or using it as a spread, like butter, on peanut butter on toast, or something like that. Or get the coconut cream concentrate, which is kind of like a butter anyway, and use that as a spread. That Tropical Traditions website had a bunch of recipes.
I have been looking at the properties of MCTs, and I may have my first real clue as to why Accera picked caprylic acid rather than, say, lauric acid, which is much more readily available. (It is the main constituent in coconut oil, roughly 50% by weight.) Long-chain fatty acids are metabolized by a different system than medium-chain fatty acids, and tend to enter the lymphatic system and get stored as fats. MCTs, on the other hand, can be processed by a much shorter and simpler route, get absorbed directly into the portal vein, get metabolized to ketone bodies, and be used by the body (brain) for energy.
I have now found one reference that said MCTs can be metabolized via either pathway, but the longer the chain, the more of the MCT that goes into the lymphatic system, rather than being absorbed directly into the portal vein for transformation to ketone bodies. Even the difference between caprylic acid (C8) and capric acid (C10) is great enough that more of the caprylic acid than the capric acid goes into the portal vein system. So when we consume coconut oil, which is roughly 50% lauric acid (C12), more of the MCT goes into the lymphatic system ... less of it goes where we want it to go to help brain function.
I am going to continue to dig into this ... but it may be that Accera had a very valid, scientific reason to use caprylic acid rather than coconut oil. If this clue continues to pan out, then I would tend to lean toward using MCT oil (roughly 2/3 caprylic acid and 1/3 capric acid) rather than, or in addition to, coconut oil.
The other thing I found was that 1994, MCTs were approved as GRAS (generally recognized as safe) for oral or enteral use by the FDA, confirming the good tolerance of MCTs in human nutrition. MCTs are used to help provide nutrition to patients who have diseases that make it difficult for them to digest foods properly.
Also, as noted several times earlier, all people do need a mixture of fats. It is NOT good to entirely replace other fats with MCTs. Essential fatty acids (fish oil) are particularly important for good health.
Hopefully I am learning to ask the right questions.
The caprylic (C8), and the capric (C10) acids are both MCT's? And the number following the C is the length of the chain?
If I were to buy some coconut oil that states: "contains medium-chain good fats with 50-55% Lauric acid (C12), cholesterol free and hexane free" does that level of Lauric acid detract the value of the other shorter chains by pulling them it into the lymphatic system rather than the portal vein? Just trying to see if I understand the process in which the body/brain uses the MCTs. Not sure what I would want to buy if the valuable shorter chains aren't going to the right place.
Reason I ask is that our ONLY local health food store has Nutiva brand on sale. "Organic, unrefined cold pressed extra-virgin coconut oil."
Diana, I'm only just getting started on the metabolism, and it's a pretty complicated area AND there is a lot that isn't known AND this is not exactly my area of expertise (blurgh). However, from what I've seen, consuming mixtures of different fatty acids does NOT affect the digestion of any particular fatty acid in the mix. (That was a good question.)
MCTs are "medium chain triglycerides", which means that they have carbon chains that are "medium long" (5 to 12 carbons, and yes, that's what C8 and C10 stand for, MCTs that have 8 or 10 carbons, respectively, in their fatty chains.) Long-chain fatty acids typically found in foods are C14 - C18, and you'll see a little bit of those in coconut oil, as well.
Now, while some of the lauric acid may be digested via the lymphatic route (which just means that the concentration of ketone bodies in the blood won't be quite as high as it would if you consumed the same amount of nothing but caprylic acid), lauric acid does have some other benefits, which might be important to our spouses (or to us). It does have antimicrobial properties. Again, I'm just getting started on this, but one of the microorganisms that is reportedly inactivated by lauric acid is Helicobacter pylori, which is the bacterium that plays a role in causing chronic gastritis and peptic ulcers. MCTs and unsaturated LCTs can inactivate some of the enveloped viruses, too, including herpes simplex virus ... and I couldn't help but notice that herpes simplex virus has been implicated in some cases of AD.
Anyway, the differences among the different brands of coconut oil are not all that dramatic. And since none of us know what the hey is truly important for helping our spouses, or why, just give the Nutiva a try and see if it helps your husband.
Meanwhile, I'll try to get a teensy bit less ignorant, and will continue to report on my findings...
I bought 2-kinds at the health food store, Garden of Life, 100% organic and no GMO's(not sure what that is) Ingredients listed 100% Organic Expeller Pressed Coconut oil. www.gardenoflife.com Is the web site. Has taste and smell and does not need refrigeration. The other is Jungle Products, also extra virgin cold-pressed and non GMO, 100% orgainic. This one says it is high in Lauric and Caprylic Acid. The first one does not mention either. I have not opened this one yet so I am unsure if it has smell and taste but it does not need to be refrigerated either. We are both using it. I notice small improvement with hubby. Unsure if it is related but will continue on this path.
This is just a semi-educated guess but some of the questions on the MMSE seem to be about being able to work out a problem. I think the backwards spelling of WORLD and the counting backwards by 7 are things you are supposed to be able to work out. I think the clock face and the interlocked pentagrams test a visual thinking ability.
Have any of you tried the memorizing three words and then asking what they are a few minutes later question? I think that one tests short term memory. But it would also require that the LO being tested still be able to talk reasonably well.
I'm not doing this yet although I'm interested in what people who are doing it are experiencing. I got put on fish oil by one doctor and on magnesium by another, so I'm going to wait out the time until the next doctor's appointment before I move on this.
Starling, I have trouble with the 3 objects just like I have trouble remembering someone I am introduced to. I know it is riduculus and I should apply myself to association. Husband can't spell the word backward and seems confused about what I mean when I ask him. I will try the 3 objects with him tomorrow.
He isn't talking much today because he is still angry with me for leaving him with daughter a few hours yesterday. I told him he is going to have to get used to it but of course it just went in one ear and out the other.
starling-why the magnesium? I have been taking it for years along with melatonin at bedtime. The combination really works when sleep is but a dream. The magnesium relaxes smooth (organ) muscle.
My DH can spell world backwards and do the math, but he has always been a math whiz. The second to last time he took the mini he could only remember 2 of the words. Last time he couldn't remember any of the words.
I had my first appointment with a therapist yesterday and she gave me the some of the mini. Thank goodness she didn't ask me to subtract by 7s from 100. I get lost after 93...lol. When I am with my DH and they give him the mini, I do it myself in my head just to see if I can.
bluedaze I was having foot cramps at night. So bad that they woke me up and some of the time I had to walk around for 20 to 30 minutes to walk them out. I was sent to a neurologist because I also have a numb leg. I've got nerve damage in both legs and a pinched nerve in one that makes it go numb if I'm standing too long.
I always take a drug list with me when I go to any doctor, so I had one and gave it to him although he didn't ask for it. Because I handed it to him he checked it out. I'm on two drugs that can cause foot cramps at night as side effects. Together they are worse than either alone. And he is on the same two drugs. He told me to buy Slow-Mag and take it to make the cramps stop. My family doctor knows about the fish oil story (very similar story) and the magnesium story.
In any case the night cramps have stopped and so have the ones in the daytime. I really have to have been on my feet a very long time to even get a twinge. And even then, a firm stomp will make them stop.
What is the melatonin for?
Stephanie, I took it for granted I couldn't do the counting backwards, until I actually tried it. You aren't supposed to be able to just say them off. My math stinks, but I actually can work the 7s out. It just takes me a while. That was when I realized that the question is probably about being able to work out a problem. I'm dyslexic. I can't add, subtract, multiply or divide. Calculus was no problem unless they were asking me to add, subtract, multiply or divide.
93, 86, 79, 72, 65. I just wrote those down and checked it with a calculator and they are right. It took me a few minutes to work each number out. I've been working Kakuro puzzles and am actually learning how to add. And I'm subtracting by using adding patterns.
Melantonin isnt just a sleep aide according to my brother the pharmacist. he says its essential to staying young and healthy as well - plus my hormone dr may be adding it to my overall intake when i go on tues for my lab results to get on the bioidentical cremes. estrogen/progesertone/testosterone/dhea/melantonin all essential to youth! :) divvi
Thanks Starling! You'll never know how much you just boosted my self-esteem. I had a very high fewer for a couple of days when I was 7 years old...had pneumonia with a temp of 108...packed in ice, cold alcohol baths every 15 minutes (those were the worst...I still remember the pain). Ever since this fever, math has been a struggle...the same goes for technical reading. I can do it, it just takes a little longer.
I did the 107/108 thing at 13 or 14, and probably at 10/11 when I had Measles and pneumonia. My math problems predate the whole high temp thing.
Our doctor gave my mother hell over the time when I was 13 or 14. I was in the 9th grade and home alone. I went home for lunch and called my older sister for permission to stay home because I felt sick. She said no because I couldn't "prove" I was sick by giving her a temperature. Everything changed. They bought me a thermometer I could use by myself (by mouth) and permission to give myself aspirin when needed. And he was having a fit because that was the Salk vaccine year. The law said 13 OR 8th grade. I was in the 9th grade, but by age I should have had it that winter. And she hadn't advocated for me, or taken me in to see him. He came to the house because he thought it might be polio.
Dazed, I love you. I tried counting back by 7's a whole bunch of times after my husband had his first MMSE, and durned if I didn't end up in a different place every time. I figured I was toast if anyone ever gave the test to me. What a clever trick!
Stephanie, I had a horrendous fever when I was in my late teens. My father was a doctor, and I asked him how high a fever could go. He said the highest he'd ever seen that did not cause permanent brain damage was 108˚F.
To come back to the coconut oil and MCT's, I sent Dr. Henderson's article to a friend who is a retired neuropharmacologist from Yale. Here is his report: The article is well written and well researched. The science makes sense. This is not a well known approach to AD, but we have nothing to lose. Because the doses are small, we don't have to worry about side effects such as ketosis.
About the trick, it didn't occur to me. I just looked at how far from where I was to the next zero, and then used the partner number to get to the right answer. So basically, 7+3 = 10 which got me to 93. 3+4 = 7 which got me to 86. Etc. Frankly the 10 trick works a whole lot better.
As for trying to tell it to our AD LOs, there truly is no way they would understand. We can use a trick, or a clue, to figure out the answer. They can't. That is why the question works.
I think the "trick" for the AD patient is more to see if they have any concept of how to even try to do the problem, not the answer. When I asked my husband to spell world backwards, he had no idea what I meant.
I picked up a few real coconuts today at the store and we've been cracking them open and eating coconut meat with lime, salt, and chile powder,,yummy..and the juice from th coconut was super good and i put it in pineapple juice and DH chugalugged it down..the fresh coconut was awesome. divvi
The last time my husband was asked that question he had no idea what we were talking about. The time before that, about 3 months earlier he tried to spell it backwards and missed one letter. Asked to spell it forward and he did it perfectly. On the second attempt at backwards he missed the same single letter.
I think that told the doctor something. Not exactly the same thing as not understanding the concept. But on the road to not understanding the concept. My husband still reads, so it isn't that letters make up words. When he loses that, we will have reached still another point in the journey.
I have, for the past several years, avoided coconut and anything with coconut or palm oil because I have high cholesterol. Everything I heard or read said it's saturated fat was very bad. Now, here I am giving it to DH and actually using it myself. Isn't this weird? Last week DH's doctor said Vitamin E was in and then it's out and then in and out again...He says now it's in. He recommended it plus fish oil. I haven't called him yet about the coconut oil but I do plan to.
Dazed thanks for the math trick...amazing. Something so simple...what a difference it will make for me!
Today my DH asked how much coconut oil he should take. I told him 1 Tablespoon. He decided to get it himself, but I should have watched him. He didn't use a measuring spoon TBSP...he used the tablespoon from our flatware and from the looks of the gouge in the jar, it was a heaping tablespoon. AND...he just popped it in his mouth, chewed and swallowed. About an hour later, he threw up and was quesy the rest of the afternoon. He was able to keep down bland foods at dinner. We are at that stage where he is still so functional in so many respects, but I never know when he is going to miss the boat. He is doing so many things partially. I am always going behind him to finish whatever he started. Heavy sigh...
Stephanie, it sounds like your DH is about the same stage as mine. He's very functional but I have to watch him. Sometimes he does strange stuff and I know he's not thinking right.
Starling, you're right about the eggs. My uncle always had his wife separate the eggs and throw the yolks in the garbage. He died in his 70's. My Dad lived on bacon, sausage, fried eggs, hamburgers and fried potatoes. He died about 32 days before his 100th birthday. He seemed to thrive on what the rest of us are scared to death of.
yes the oil can make you queasy if you dont eat with something solid. like toast peanut butter, yougourt, pudding, i got queasy myself doing the same t hing. best is to give it with a big meal if possible so theres plenty to absorb it..divvi-or cook with it like an omelet that was delish!divvi
Thanks, Marsh, it's good to get a solid scientific/medical opinion. :-)
OK, as a reminder: All people need a mixture of fats. It is NOT good to entirely replace other fats with MCTs. Essential fatty acids (fish oil) are particularly important for good health.
In addition:
Calculating the amount of coconut oil you have to consume to achieve the same results as Accera did in their clinical trials is not as simple as just calculating total grams of MCT, the way Dr Newport did.
(1) The length of the carbon chain on the MCT can have a profound effect on the rate at which the MCT is digested and absorbed. Pigs are one of the best animal models to mimic humans; in studies on pigs, the peak fatty acid concentration in the blood produced by *nonemulsified* caproic acid (C6) was 50 times higher than the concentration produced by C7.
(2) Now, total utilization over the 24-hour study period was not significantly affected by chain length for MCTs from C6 to C10. So unless you want to get a high blood concentration for some reason, one might prefer one of the slightly longer-chain MCTs (C8 and/or C10) to keep a more steady-state concentration of fatty acids in the blood.
However, as noted earlier, the longest-chain MCTs (C12, lauric acid) may be partially utilized via the lymphatic pathway, rather than the portal vein pathway; so from THAT standpoint, it is better to stick with MCTs down in the C8-C10 range.
(3) Emulsification can enhance the body's utilization of MCT oils. Oil and water do not mix. If the MCT is introduced into the digestive tract as a "bolus" -- a single gulp of oil, like Stephanie's husband took (ugh!) -- it is not readily available to enzymes in the gut, and can pass right on through. Emulsifiers are used to get oils into a stable, water-based mixture in which the oils are evenly distributed in sub-microscopic droplets (for maximum surface area and maximum availability for digestion and absorption.)
It is very well-known that emulsifiers are needed for the maximum digestion, absorption, and metabolization of MCTs. When MCTs are used for parenteral nutrition (by intravenous injection or infusion), for example, emulsifiers are always used in the product. There are hundreds of different emulsifier formulas that are used in foods and beverages. Accera used heavy whipping cream in their first, short/small clinical trial. I have no idea which emulsifier they used in their larger, 9-month trial. They only talked about mixing a powder of their medical food with water or juice, so I assume that the emulsifiers themselves -- which accounted for 2/3 of the formulation by weight -- are powders. That leaves out heavy whipping cream. :-) Accera's patent applications says the "preferred" emulsifiers are "mono- and diglycerides", but there are a bunch of those.
(4) Carnitine enzymes can enhance the metabolism of longer-chain fats. In theory, they should not affect the body's utilization of MCTs, because MCTs do not go through the same metabolic pathway. Nevertheless, in pig studies, supplemental L-carnitine increased the metabolism of caprylic acid (C8, the MCT that is in the Accera med) by as much as 20%. The mechanism by which metabolism was enhanced is unclear. Accera's patent applications talk about the potential benefits of including carnitine in their formulation, although they do not mention it specifically in the Phase IIb clinical trial data.
So ... if we use coconut oil, we are probably giving less of the active ingredient than we think we are; and if we don't know how well-mixed the oil and aqueous phases are from dose to dose (scrambled eggs one time and hot chocolate another), the "real" dose may vary each time.
I don't see any reason why this should stop us from using coconut oil now. However, I think we are likely to get better, more consistent results with Axona when it finally gets launched.
I did find an emulsified MCT oil, called "Twinlab MCT Fuel", which is sold by a lot of online health food companies. It is a combination of caprylic and capric acids (C8 and C10). It is (supposedly) orange-flavored. To get the same dose as Accera used in their clinical trials, you'd have to consume 5 tablespoons per day, since the Twinlab formulation contains a lot of water. They CLAIM that it tastes good ... but I have my doubts. I rarely like artificial orange flavorings. But maybe it would taste OK if mixed with orange juice etc.
Now I feel really dumb. I spent years teaching math. I was figuring out multiples of 7 and adding 2 since 100 is a multiple of 7 (98) plus 2, but then I had to keep figuring out the multiples of 7. Let's see 100 - 2 is 98 and 98 is 14 x 7, so the next lower multiple of 7 is 13 x7. That's (thinking ...) 91. 91 + 2 is 93. And so on.
Also (this is the math teacher in me coming through) - what Dazed did isn't a "trick." It's a very logical mathematical process. If you subtract 10 and add 3, it's the same as subtracting 7, since 10 - 3 is 7. Little kids use these sorts of methods all the time. For example, a child (maybe in kindergarten) might say 7 + 9 = 16, because if you take 1 from the 9 and give it to the 7, then it's 8 + 8 and I know 8 + 8 = 16.
If that doesn't stop the conversation, I'll be surprised. I absolutely love listening to how children figure out math problems! I know, most people think that's weird!
Janet I don't think that is weird at all. I think it is fascinating.
I just plain did not get taught right. Being dyslexic and 67 means that no one knew how to teach me or even that learning disabilities existed. Instead we were all classified as dumb or worse, borderline retarded. I know that I am actually borderline genius, not quite mensa qualified, but so close that I've had more than one member try to talk me into it. And then there was my friend Judy...
But once someone taught me a trick like the subtracting 10 trick, I could always run with it. I learned to read because a teacher wispered in my ear that the letters said their own names. Went from not being able to read at all to reading at the 6th grade level (in the 4th grade) in less than 4 months with just that one hint.
I think it's what Starling said, you weren't taught right. Did any teacher ever ask you how you figured out something like 7 + 9? I doubt it. If you knew it, they assumed you memorized it. If you didn't know it, they probably thought you weren't very smart. Most kids who can get the answers to simple math facts don't have them memorized, but they can figure them out. If you think it's fascinating, you should come over and watch my video tapes of children explaining their thinking!
Now, back to the topic. Divvi, anymore changes in your husband?
Husband is more alert, and bringing up things in conversation that has been gone for months. Asking about how much money we gave the kids, none. How we were going to divide it.(not going to be any left to divide) wants to buy a top for the riding lawnmower, surprising things he is recalling but it is like swiss cheese, lots of holes here and there, but better than in a dazed state. Weird. He is having more problem stringing words together but it may be because he is talking more words???
We have spent the last 2 hours searching for the TV Remote. Should be some way you could call it like a lost phone.......
I have had this same problem with tv remote and wallet and glasses. My daughter says there is a thing called a key finder that you can put on remotes and various other things. I have looked on amazon and they have them but I haven't ordered yet. Too busy looking for the dog today.
The dog went missing about ten in the morning and I spent all day driving up and down the road, over to the neighbor she likes, tramping around the hills out back yelling for her. Finally at 5:30 after it was too dark to see, I made one more drive to find her waiting for me to come get her at the house being built about a mile away. She was absolutely covered in mud from digging in the fresh dirt over there. This is the dog my DH wanted since he had never owned a dog and was the first thing on his bucket list. He stayed all day in his pj's in front of the tv watching old military movies and asking me where the dog was each time I came back and cussing the neighbors who he believed had shot her. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!
By way of back to the subject, I just got a breadmachine and have been using the coconut oil in it instead of the butter or oil called for to make the bread. I don't even notice a big difference in taste but the bread is quite moist and nice.
Last night I went to a class that was taught by Dr Newport regarding coconut oil and how it greatly benefited her husband. I went because my grandmother has been diagnosed with this disease and she unfortunately cannot take any of the medications because she has had an allergic reaction to these medications. The class was very informative and I sent the information to my grandfather to try it on my grandmother. My grandfather has been using coconut oil on his face for years and he has the nicest complexion any 80 year old that I have seen.
Dr Newport stated that coconut oil should not effect any other drugs that you are on. She did recommend that you check with your doctor first. She also stated the coconut oil can benefit people with age related memory loss.
Dr Newport is an MD, and she works with newborns. She does not develop drugs, had no knowledge of or experience with AD before her husband was diagnosed, and has no real knowledge about MCT oils other than her husband's purported response. (In fact, she didn't even realize MCT oils are used in infant formula until she tripped across information about Accera's new drug.) She also has not, from what she has written, looked into the impact of carbon chain length, emulsification, etc, on MCT digestion, absorption, and metabolism -- or apparently even realize such factors might be important. In fact, she apparently totally misunderstood what Accera's patent said. From what she wrote and the Tampa Bay interview, she thought it said that they were testing coconut oil itself ... it actually said that the compound they are testing can be derived by chemical modification of the oils in coconut oil.
She originally gave Accera full credit for their groundbreaking research and said that coconut oil was only a stop-gap measure until Accera's new "medical food" is available. However, I got the distinct impression from the Tampa Bay article and subsequent postings to that web site that she has had some sort of altercation with Accera since then, and is now trying to discredit them or, at the least, claim that coconut oil is equally beneficial.