Kathi 37 asked this question under another topic, and I thought is was important, and well worth discussion among spouses - it is only spouses who could understand this question - What do you do when the love is no longer there?
Tough question. After too many years of coping with very bad behavior love was gone. In its place is pity. There is no way I can know when FTD became a player rather than belligerence.
I made the above comment after a pity party that lasted a few days. Our once terrific relationship was destroyed (as many of others have been) in the last couple of years, and it is hard to say just what I felt...not pity, love, whatever. The gradually affection started showing up again in small ways, and it was semi-sunny after long dark times. I truly felt hopeful for quite a while..then the monster paid a return visit and here we are again.Hard to have the warm fuzzies under the circumstances. I guess I'll hit up his PCP for a larger dose of Prozac...how's that for a great relationship adjuster?
Kathi, I think that after they reach a certain stage with this disease, they don't feel "love" for anyone any more. And due to their AD, as the stages get worse, and the minds are no longer in the bodies of our spouses (spice), they aren't with us TO love any more. The affection we feel for the young person or toddler that is in residence in their body that can give hugs and kisses is needed by both us and them. But it is not love as we loved our spouse and they loved us. They are no longer with us, so the love is but a memory.
I never fell out of love w/DH, but I knew my love had changed--agreed, there were no more fuzzies--quite the opposite, didn't want him to touch me. But the new different love I felt was just as strong, and there certainly was pity. How many ways do we strongly love those who are not a spouse/lover? He has been gone a long time now & today you made me think about the love I still feel for him. For the 1st time I question if my feelings are because I do not want to stop loving him, that what we had together was too precious to let fade. Is it because his home, his car, bed, photos, children & g'children are in my daily life? I think if I was not in the same environment it might fade, but I am where I am w/no intention of moving.
There were so many times I was so angry, didn't understand, didn't know we were dealing w/a brain disease--and I was so so so angry. But never did I think "I don't love him anymore". In my mind I wanted him to go away, I wanted to leave--but only temporary. I wanted things to go right! Mentally I'd beat him over the head w/a baseball bat I was so so so angry. Then the time came when I learned and understood that none of it was his fault. He didn't want what we had any more than I did.
Yeap, I just feel that now it all duty. I had a real rough weekend with him and he threw a screaming, abusive fit in front of our 3YO grandson. This is a first. He usually makes sure there is no audience. It took all I to do so to say OK you are sick I am not going to hit you with a baseball bat!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have not felt any love from him in over 3 years and I think I quit loving him in that sense and started feeling that he is my duty about a year ago. I just do not want to become a hard, unfeeling person..... I pour as much love as I can on the grands and children but I always am aware that I am probably overcompensating to make up for not being a "loving wife"....as yes Bettyhere, I have started to hate to go home and wish he would "go away" sorry but I have to be honest with myself to survive.
I love my DH very much. At the same time, when I am brutally honest with myself (something I do fairly regularly), I know that the romantic love, the "I wanna hug and kiss and all the rest" kinda love is just not there any more. For a while, I kept trying to pretend the romantic love was still there, but it's just not. I love my DH like the most dear and wonderful friend in the world. It's just that now, I would have to give him the "let's be friends" talk.
It mads me so sad to say this....I love my husband, however, I am not "In Love" there is none of the passion there when you are in love. I never in a 1000 years would have ever thought I would say that. My friends & I would talk about who we thought was "In Love" and those who "Loved" their husband's. Everyone always said I was lucky for I was "In Love"
This goes along with another discussion where we talked about how hard it is for us when we are spoken down to and rudely in front of others and then expected to be all romantic later. Yes, I still really truly love my husband. However, I do see the type of love changing. The same way, after we meet and started dating, the friendship love turned into a husband and wife love, now it is changing into a different love again.
The Dance............ when I need a good cry I listen to this song. It says it all for me. I of course agree, with Alzheimer's the love can never be what it once was.
I have no love left for this man. I don't even like him anymore. I stay out of a sense of duty because I believe if the tables were turned he would care for me. I fill my days as much as possible with friends, books, and activities. I try to spend as little time as possible with him and I sleep in as late as possible to delay having to deal with him yet another day. It's a constant battle to keep the bitterness at bay. He mentioned the other day that he wanted to have sex and I just flat out told him that would never happen again. I cannot stand the idea of him touching me. I have fond memories of our good years together but try as I might, I cannot dredge up those old feelings for him.
I still am living in my apartment and I go and check on him on the weekends and stay there. This, for now, is working but when things progress I will have to make other arrangements. He is my best friend and I love him that way but the love I have for a husband is gone. I will always look after him and make sure he has the best care that I can provide for him. But I won't let this destroy me.
I have loved DH for 60 years. He's been my best friend, my confidant, my lover, the father of my children. However, now, I'm not sure what I feel. I do love him. I promised I would love him until death do us part. But the love has changed. There is no passion. There is no give and take. He will watchme try and pull the sofa out away from the wall so I can clean behind it. He will bell me I need to pull a little more on the left. For him to help me would not occur to him. If I ask him to help me, he will 'play dumb' and not have a clue as to what I'm talking about. There have not been any romantic feelings for a long time now. But, I would never leave him. He's my husband. I will defend him until the death. I don't know how else to answer this question.
What you all are saying sounds so familiar to me. My love for husband died in those confusing years before dx. His inability to cope with the changes that were occurring in his head pulled him way into himself and far away from me. Always a good man and my best friend, I found myself feeling .....nothing. Never hate, just an absence of love and an understanding that I'd done all I could to try an hold us together. Then, dx. The love never came back, but there was relief that it slipped away for organic reasons and not because he had just stopped loving me on his own. Four years after dx, I know I'll be here to the end. Intellectually, I know we had many good years together and that we were best friends. I guess that's strong enough for me to be committed to those vows we made 34 years ago yesterday.
I know there will never be sex again. I remember the many times I told him I needed affection to be interested in sex because sex by itself didn't do it for me. Well, (sigh) I guess that information never made it into long term memory....
I feel so lucky - my DH has died before I felt as if I was only a 'care giver' and not a wife. I could see, however, where all of this was heading - and that I might soon be only 'that person who cared for him'. I can so relate to your space and all the distress this disease brings. Love to all of you on this journey.
When this message board was brand new I remember posting about a period of DH being hypersexual. By that I mean he had nothing else on his mind. Couldn't fulfil the deed, would get annoyed with himself and with me, and sometimes was downright nasty. But he'd still demand sex, not remembering that he'd just berated me, or hurt my feelings. He expected that I could turn my emotions on at his beckoned call. That is when I decided love was gone. I'd give in to him just to keep him calm, even was I was still on the verge of tears. Tears of anger and sadness. I felt raped, molested, horrible. Then I was coming to realize his mind just could NOT work properly. He could NOT see what he was doing. And he could NOT understand any degree of talking to him about it. Yes, the reasoner is broken. I knew that. I just didn't consider that the emotion controller was broken too.
My marriage had severe ups and downs in the first ten years, but we overcame some overwhelming odds to reconcile and keep the marriage together. DH and I were becoming true friends. Problem is, it was so short lived though. About 4 years later he started showing the signs of AD. It was still another 3 years before diagnosis. But so much damage had already occured. Because (due to AD) he was going back to a lot of past bad behaviors. I'm still here out of a sense of loyalty. I honor my vows to honor him and care for him. But the love issue is a hard one.
I didn't mean to open the proverbial can of worms, but it is always there in some form. When the monster lives here, I just feel resentment that this has destroyed us..other than that, I just put in my time with this dreadful emptiness. He can be very accomodating, not loving, but nice, however, I don't trust the bad guy not to show up at any time now. He has never pushed for intimacy which is very surprising considering our past relationship. Good thing, as I would be hard pressed to deal with that now.
I relate my marital circumstances alot with Nikki. She and I have both married older men but that factor has played no part in how our lives have taken a turn with AD. I will care and love my husband til the last breath and believe i will think of him everyday thereafter. it was my cinderella story i guess and i just dont ever want to forget how i melted every time he looked at me. it was my 3RD marriage so i had enough experience to know this was the real deal. in my book he was the perfect man if thats possible-if any of my experiences shared here have any bearing , this is why i tolerate and do everything within my power to keep him at home and as happy as he can manage. the issues i deal with daily-well most of you would shake your head and have placed them by now. i just hold on for dear life, (i guess my own) and whatever remains of his-i just have no idea how i will function without him, it scares me to death - even so, knowing in my mind i would finally be able to have a life of my own again. divvi
I am also married to an older man. Dick is 20 yrs older than me. We have laughed many times about the fact that I'm a trophy wife... After 31 yrs I'm no longer anybody's trophy. (LOL) It was also my 2nd marriage, and he was a wonderful father to my children. They love him and my grandies also love him. He's not terriby far gone yet, but is totally aware that he can't remember from minute to minute. The one thing he remembers is that he loves me. he tells me that every day, and also tells me that the best part of his life happened when i came into it. We cared for his mother when she had AD, and she finally had to be placed. If it's possible for me, I want to keep him at hime. He's 85 now, and honestly, I pray that death takes him before he becomes so bad that I can't care for him. He has always treated me like his princess, and even though he can't do anything now, he always offers to. And sometimes I say yes, and then he has no idea what to do, and I laugh. Because I still love him, and if you don't laugh you cry.
This one is tough. Love him - absolutely. In love still - not too sure on that one. Ready to move on to a life without AD - definitely getting there.
He is in stage 7 but still knows me and can sometimes tell me that he loves me. His being in a facility has really helped with some of the what was going on with me due to the changes in him when he was home. Now that I am not totally stressed out and exhausted with caregiving and working full time, I find that I can enjoy some of his comments. His whole face lights up when I walk in to see him - that is what helps to keep me going back and visit him.
At this point, I am not going to make any promises on what will happen to our love in the future. A part of me is hoping that he goes before he gets to the point of forgetting me and is unable to express any of his emotions.
The aids tell me that all they have to do is mention my name when he is being difficult and he immediately settles down and does what they need him to do.
therrja-you are blessed. My husband in a facility shows nothing. No smile or emotion of any kind. For a while he knew I was someone who mattered-but that was a year ago, I am fiercely protective of him-but that is all.
I've avoided commenting too much on the topics that make me think BACK and those that, like this one that also makes me think BACK. Its such a good thing for those who have had rich rewarding relationships with their loved ones to be able to think BACK to those sweet times and the good times when things were so SO much better. I would love to be able to say those kinds of things.
I love my husband more as I would love a brother or sister.. He isa member of my family and for nearly 49 years,someone I vowed to stay with through the good times and bad. When we discuss other topics like the early symptoms of disease, I wonder if the unreasonable jealousy and the other difficulties were clues OR if this was just the REAL man.
I will do the best I can to look after him as I know he would do this for me. Truthfully though, I often think that he would be happier in a place with a sincerely happy caregiver. Every evening is difficult.
I looked at what I posted yesterday and one would think I was just plain drunk. Not the case, but was upset and maybe its just the moon who knows. Evenings are difficult because DH wants a WIFE..you see. He WANTS a WIFE! That is completely understandable. He certainly DESERVES one. Furthermore, he's wanted a wife for the majority of our marriage. As a young 'wife' I jumped through every hoop trying to please and do what 'wives' are supposed to do, he still didn't have a 'wife'. He's wanted something or someone that just wasn't me and stupidly, I allowed myself to be conned into believing that if I just did more, pleased more, HE would be 'happy'. A counselor once asked me 'what do you do with your anger'.. I was astonished. Didn't realize that I had anger.. I just wanted to know HOW to do better when I couldn't DO better. Along the way I woke up..decided to do the best I could and forge ahead no matter how much criticism. No more hoops..of any kind. The evenings are difficult because he WANTS a wife and doesn't understand why this woman isn't romantic. Every evening he makes a proclamation of dissatisfaction before he stomps off to bed. It stings but I can't go there..just can't.
He's been a good man to the world outside our home. A good public servant, a wise teacher whose students admired him and townspeople who respected him. He was an expert cattleman. His advice was sought thoughout the state on various cattle matters. He had a certain wisdom in helping people work together on civic projects. Only I and our children know the way of things at home. He deserves the best of care and I am doing my best to provide it but there will be a time when the best of care for someone like him, is actually best in an environment OUTSIDE our home. He shines best 'out there'.
I have to tell you something funny, since SEX has reared it's head.... My DH has been incapable for about 10 yrs, Maybe not quite that long, but a long time. Anyway, now that he has AD, He doesn't remember that he is incapable... he thinks we have an active sex life, like we used to. And he makes little remarks like he would in the old days, and then falls asleep. I'm so glad he thinks that's the case. he felt bad about his impotence for so long, now he forgot he's impotent. Sometimes, this forgetting thing is a blessing.
I wonder if we could pretend that we had great sex and they would go along with it because they can't remember we didn't. Isn't that better than the alternatives? My DH mentioned wanting sex for our anniversary. I just let the comment go. I may just try pretending that we did if he ever raises it again. I am REALLY REALLY not sure he can actually have sex from a physical point of view. The last couple of times, it really did not go well. 'Nuff said.
Before all of this happened, before my DH got sick, we were always totally honest with each other. Now, I know that I cannot be that honest with him because it would hurt him to know the fullness of his illness. You see, his memory impairment and executive dysfunction are severe. His overall cognitive impairment is moderately severe. Oddly (especially since words were never my DH's strong suit), my DH's area of strength right now is in the area of language! It masks the symptoms so much its remarkable. I was doing my own little mini-cog, and asked him to name animals. He named so many different animals, still not the amount that he should, but his list included the platapus and the rhinocerous. Of course, then he got into the "bears" = polar bear, grizzly bear .... I was almost surprised he didn't come up with teddy bear. =)
Judy the converstions with your DH sounds just like the one mine had with me on the weekend. He started screaming that I needed to be a WIFE and Not at Grandmother!!!!!!!!!! this was right after he threw a tantrum in front of the 3 yo grand over the remote control. Like you, for the last 4 years I have tried everything and nothing was good enough, so now, I do what I know must be done and just try to ignore all the verbal abuse and put downs. However, some days I seem to have thin skin and it hurts worse than other days!!!!!!!!!!
What is a "wife" anyway? As a wife, I care for my DH, I take care of his needs, and love him (often despite himself). What more is there REALLY? I don't know how I would react if my DH told me I needed to be a "wife." I think I would blow it. God bless you all who have had to deal with that kind of criticism. You definitely do NOT deserve to be criticized! Yes, we all likely vowed to love and cherish in sickness and in health, but that does not mean that we are saints or angels. We are, after all, human beings, doing the best we can one day at a time. If you DH does not cut you some slack or if ANYONE suggests you are not doing enough, in your mind, tell them to "fuck off." I know, many detest the word, but it really helps sometimes just to say it ... even if it is just in your mind. There is something cathartic in those words. You deserve better.
I had an aunt that would never cuss because she truly believed it was wrong. When she got frustrated, she would say "shit, dam, hell" over and over like a chant - she didn't consider those words to be cuss words. If you try it, you might be surpised how much it helps with the anger and frustration. Let's all say it together: shit, dam, hell ... shit, dam, hell ... shit, dam, hell!
Late last night I wrote a LONNNNNG! post. And I hit "back to discussions" instead of "Add comments." GRRRR!
In short what I said was, "It hurts when we no longer have a mutual, or reciprocal relationship --- in love, respect, conversation, support, history, etc.
It is a death we are not morally or consciously permitted to grieve or have closure on. Afterall, there is not death certificate, no funeral. We no longer have the elements of marriage. Yet we are not allowed to heal and move on.
Yes Chris r The same with my DH because of his prostate cancer. We had the little blue pills but it made his vision funny and everything turned blue he said his heart pounded like it was going to burst out of his chest. Well it scared the hell out of both of us and we never used the little blue pill again. Oh we always talked about it even this past weekend. I laid down with him in his NH hospital bed and we snuggled and he said I wonder if they would lend us a little blue pill. We hadn't been that close in so long it made my heart ache for the intimate times we had. We would get naked and lie next to each other knowing that we couldn't have sex but that was all there could be and that was enough. I am here at work typing this and crying my eyes out remembering things that will never be again. They all know here at work about the tough times I am going through and if I need to talk they are always willing to listen but for the most part I am just trying to work through my grief of love lost and once in a while like I said this past weekend I can catch a much needed glimpse of the past. Now don't let me paint such a rosy picture because that ugly devil would take hold of my DH and I hated him with as much passion as loving him. I wouldn't wake him to tell him to come to bed I didn't want to come home from work because I knew what was waiting for me, more confrontations and if you go here he said I won't be here when you return. One time I just had enough and said you do what you have to and went to my Red Hat meeting but he was waiting for me when I returned and he acted like he never threatened me before I left. Yepper the preverbial roller coaster. Teena Cahill STRESS RELIEF ha Where?????
I feel so badly for all of you. Reading your posts is so heartbreaking. I can't believe I am about to say this, but it does get easier. I am 41 at "me peak" I am told. I of course DID mourn, hard and long over each loss, sex being just one of many, and not the most important either. I don't know how else to say this, but to just speak from my heart. For me love is so much more than just sex. Lynn is in late stage 6, so needless to say, we are far beyond the time when this was an issue. I will always love Lynn, he is my life...
Divvi, we are so much alike!!! I'm holding on for dear life too! We are all different - none of our feelings are right or wrong... better or worse. We feel what we feel, and I am so grateful we have a place we can all share and support each other!
NIkki, I do think you and Divvi are very much alike just from reading and "feeling" your comments. You are both so strong and commited. It makes me feel lacking in the commitment area, but everyone has led a different path. I guess I envy the relationship you both had that makes this trip easier for you to deal with. Not EASY..but . I thought we had a great relationship, but surely not as you have had over the years. You are both terrific soulmates for your spouses. Now...that said..I HAVE had two glasses of vino, so mauldlin might be part of the picture here.(-:)
I have been dealing with AD for about 6 years now, since I was 46. My husband and I have always had a very rocky marriage,mostly due to us both being muleheaded and having totally different perspectives of what marriage is. We are 16 years apart and this is EOAD,he just turned 68. We have survived his having an affair,my health problems,his drinking,his anger issues and somehow or other we are muddling our way through AD. I have learned that I have issues and that he has/had issues, I have learned that even though I do not love him as deeply as I once did, there are feelings there for him that just will not let me let him go through this without me. I have been at his side thru good and bad for 30 years. I care for him even if most wouldn't call it love. I try to see him every day as a human being and treat him as I would want to be treated,even though he may not have done the same for me. Maybe we are just friends in the great realm of things, he doesn't remember I am his wife, we are nearing the end and I have in my heart the comfort of knowing I have done all I can. Sooner than later I will come home to an empty house and will long to hear the voice I once knew. I will not have the bathroom floor to mop a dozen times a day when he misses, but then I won't have those beautiful blue eyes to look at anymore either. Kathi37 said it right,everyone had led a different path. I have been where all of you on this disscussion have been,pushed and shoved and screamed at. But I know its AD, not my husband.Nikki and Divvi have been good role models for me.And even though I haven't been an ideal wife at times, even though I can't honestly say that we love as a husband and wife should. I guess I believe in a power greater than I has given me the strenght to honor my vows and to leave something a little bit better behind for all of you to see.
magnoliarose-that was a beautiful tribute. To go through an affair, drinking, cruelity is beyond my capibalities. He is very lucky to still have you in his corner. I commend you.
Magnoliarose, I think you have it backward, the 'role model' we are striving to be is exactly what you yourself are doing -like so many here before you. although you admit the love ties may no longer be in place you are still committed to caring and standing strong in advocate for your spouse. that takes a stronger force than those of us who do commit for the love side of the story. i have said before if i didnt overwhelmingly love my DH before all this started i dont know how i would fair the storm. its so very difficult even with love on your side, i cant fathom the energy needed to overcome the lack of-just by being there in times of need and your dedication speaks volumes. job well done, divvi
I agree - divvi said it very well. When you start out with love, and that love deepens and grows throughout the years, you have a huge reservoir of love from which to draw when Alzheimer's Disease does all it can to destroy it. Without that reservoir of love, I have no idea, absolutely no idea, how a spouse withstands the destruction of AD.
My DH (actually ex) have certainly had our ups and downs in our marriage. In fact, as I mentioned before, we separated around 8 years ago and divorced 6 years ago. He moved back in with me 5 years ago when he was dx'd. One thing that makes my situation different is I knew when we met 35 years ago that there was a significant possibility that DH would get EOAD. His mother had just died of EOAD at 50. Ten out of 14 of her siblings had died of EOAD. This disease has definitely broken my heart many times but I truly feel at a very deep level my DH & I are truly soulmates and I love him very much. I recently saw a cousin who I had not seen since I was a child. She told me both she and her husband felt this deep connection between my DH and I. She said she knows we are soulmates and it was no coincidence that I am on this journey with him.
Also, I think of the next generation, like our daughter. They have a 50/50 chance of getting EOAD. I want her to know that I committed to care for her father.
So far he has not had the aggressive behaviors that others of you report. That would be very difficult to endure and I don't know if I could live with that daily. I know my DH would not want me to either. He is worried about my safety. So if it came to that, I may have to choose to place him in a home. But that being said, I do find him very irritating alot of the time and if I did not have other outlets like work, friends and family, I would probably go nuts.
My DH and I were talking with a friend whose spouse has AD...latter stages and is sometimes abusive and almost violent. My DH asked what I would do if that happens to him. I told him there were drugs....and I would use them (heavy doses, if needed) and if that didn't work, I would place him. He agreed that was what he would want me to do. He said if he ever tried to harm me or even talk hateful to me, he would have to be completely out of his mind. He's wonderful and I love him. Just don't know if I could separate the disease from the person if he became hostile. How do you guys do it?
Dazed I experienced that for a short time after DH had surgery and was on Pain killers, and I am dreading that happening again. I know that others deal with it every day, and I consider myself fortunate that so far, he is sweet and docile and I might add very appreciative. he tells me that all the time, and it actually makes it easier to know that in some way he knows what's really going on, and appreciates me and what I do for him.
Dazed, if your DH has a complacent and easy going nature about him before AD then you will know if things change its due to the disease. i the good thing is usually their predisposed personality -good or bad, will only intensify with the disease as it progresses. my DH was as polite and good natured as it gets before to me, so the odd times he was aggressive was so out of sorts i knew it was time for meds to help get thru that. remember its the same person whose mind is being ravaged by disease. you will know when it happens. divvi