Elizabeth, I don't know what path you should take but I do think that in making the decision, you should think carefully about what your goals are. Not all of us are committed or even very interested in starting a "new life" after the horror of Alzheimer's. (Some of us may just want to crawl under a rock.) But you have repeatedly expressed your commitment to that goal, and I think that is very important. Although there are other legitimate factors to consider (what Larry would have thought, whether New York would be a better fit than Ohio, what kind of relationship you want with your grandchildren), probably the most important factor is whether your decision will allow you to live an independent and fulfilling life.
Thanks again to all who are helping me with such wisdom and good, common-sense advice. I have some months ahead of me to do some deep thinking, some research, and some soul-searching. This will not be a hasty, emotionally-driven decision, although emotions are certainly part of it. Finances, not just in the short-term...but long-range financial planning will be huge. And quality of life issues. So stay tuned.
Gourdchipper, I think I'd like to retire to Harry Potter World in Florida!
This is from John Hopkins' latest newsletter,"Health After 50"
Losing a Loved One: How to Cope with Complicated Grief Comments (0)
No words can describe the anguish of losing a loved one: The loss evokes a wide range of emotions in the weeks and months after someone’s passing. Although it’s difficult to see at the time, the grieving process helps the mind adjust to the sorrow of the loss, accept its finality and find a way to adapt.
For some people—including 10 percent of bereaved women older than 60—feelings of loss don’t improve over time. For individuals experiencing what’s called complicated grief, traditional grief counseling doesn’t always help, and experts are investigating other emerging types of therapy to relieve prolonged grief, with some success.
Complicated grief symptoms
Complicated grief is typically diagnosed if you have intense yearning for the deceased and at least four of the following symptoms for at least six months:
Difficulty moving on? Numbness/detachment ?Bitterness ?Feelings that life is empty without the deceased Trouble accepting the death ?A sense that the future holds no meaning without the deceased? Being on edge or distracted? Difficulty trusting others after the loss Complicated grief treatment
Complicated grief shouldn’t be ignored. Individuals with the condition aren’t likely to get better on their own, plus they’re at risk for physical health problems and have a higher suicide rate.
Complicated grief is typically treated with psychotherapy and sometimes antidepressants, although evidence for drug use to relieve prolonged grief is weak. However, a more targeted therapy called complicated grief treatment (CGT) is proving to be more beneficial. CGT aims to restore function by helping the bereaved individual talk about his or her loss, which includes discussing the loved one’s death, engaging in imagined conversations with the person who died and thinking about the death without intense feelings of anger, guilt or anxiety. Therapists guide the individuals in developing goals for their future and concrete plans for putting those goals into action. CGT is based on principles similar to that of treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder and helps patients confront their loss through exposure.
Finding help
It’s important to find a mental health professional or grief counselor who knows how to recognize and treat complicated grief. The Center for Complicated Grief at Columbia University maintains a list of clinicians who are knowledgeable about the condition and CGT. Visit complicated grief.org/resources/find-a-therapist.
I have mixed feelings as I type this. When my wife died last April I resigned myself to a life alone. I had no intention of looking for another partner. In particular, I did not want to risk another course as a caregiver. That changed in the past month or so. In August a new resident moved into one of the cottages at this retirement village (I am in the Inn). She and I ended up going on many of the trips planned by the activities director, and often ended up sitting together. Over the past month we have found we have much in common and are starting to get serious. We have already planned a trip in January to a time-share she has. My biggest concern now is our age difference – I am 84 and she is 65, not much older than my daughter. Fortunately, my older daughter is thoroughly in favor of our relationship (the other 2 kids don’t know about her until they read the e-mail I sent yesterday). I’m definitely feeling young again and have stopped taking my anti-depressants. One problem now is that I find I really miss her when she is off doing something else, like now when she is taking a course at her church. She will be joining me for dinner tonight and I’m counting the minutes.
Marsh, I am very happy for you. If your friend feels as you do, you should seize this opportunity to be happy. A bonus is that your daughter is in favour. Your friend must be a nice person. I would say "Go for it".
Be honest with each other, and address the potential problem areas openly. (Age difference? What will that mean for you two? Do you like to live the same way, age difference or not? What is your plan for caring for each other if one or the other needs health care? Money issues? How will you handle inheritance issues for your kids, if any?) You can avoid a lot of pitfalls by being a close, exclusive couple, but not actually getting legally married...if that appeals to you. It's a lot to think about, and my two cents is that the two of you need to talk...and talk...and talk. For hours. And hours. Just as any of us would probably advise a young person...try to hold back on the physical side of things while you get to know each other better as individuals and try to work out the age difference issues before you start too much hugging and kissing...which would probably make it harder to think clearly.
marsh, My husband is 19 years older than I am. We met when I was 41 and he was 59, and married two years later. The most significant problem that our age has caused what his illness has done to both of us. Even with this awful thing we are living with, I would do it all over again, for he means the world to me.
Yes,follow your heart, marsh! I'm in a relationship with a wonderful ma,2 yrs older than me. We are having so much fu. He has asked me to marry him, gave me a gorgeous ring but he has several legal issues to address (he is quite wealthy-has two sons, 5 grand-children), so the marriage may well be awhile in the future - but we both are ok with that. Just enjoying life again after so much heart-ache. Best wishes to you and your lady!
Vickie, It's great to hear that you have met someone special, and are enjoying your time together. Marsh, my husband was 10 years older than me, and I would not hesitate to do it again. Best wishes,
Thanks for all your support. Elizabeth, I would like to follow your advice about hugging and kissing, but I discovered yesterday that this is one thing she really wants. And I enjoy it also after so many years of being "celibate". Regarding being a couple but not legally married, one way a friend of mine handled this was to have a ceremony conducted by the minister of their church so they are "married" in the eyes of God, but not the state. She is very involved with her church, so this might work.
Go for it! our pastor and his son have imposed a curfew on us. LOL. Says we are acting too much like teen-agers.Son tells everyone he doesn't mind me going with his Dad, but to please let him go home at a decent hour!
Marsh*, I'm still in the throes of caregiving but like the others, I say go for it! We ALL need companionship and friendship particularly after so many years of caregiving. It's good to know that our pheromones can rage in our "senior" years. Elizabeth has some excellent advice about talking, talking and more talking so you and your friend have an idea of what's ahead.
Best advise I ever received Hospice Grief counselor.. You grieved every day you cared for your wife. She didn't even know you for years. It's your turn now, go and enjoy every moment. I've been with "A" for 18mos now and we've enjoyed every moment and haven't been apart since we met. . Everyone on both sides has met everyone.. Life is good!
Elizabeth I'm an Ex NYer and one daughter went to OSU, married and lives there. Nice places to visit now but......
one of the many benefits of the Florida retired life. I received an Email on Tues.. Unsold cruise last minute sailing dates of Sat and Sunday. We selected a **** Cruise line, mini suite with balcony, 7 days -$399. Who cares where the ship goes in the Caribe we rarely even get off the boat; We're not in the market add to our mutual overload of "stuff"!!!!
Had kind of a "blah" and "meh" Saturday, reading and being online too much, watching too much Netflix, and when got too boogity-eyed, just walking and walking in the park. Took Nyquil last night to knock myself out and sleep longer than usual...no, I'm not one to take meds...but once in a while when I really want to just sleep and not lie awake late thinking...I take Nyquil. Anyway, woke up this morning after eight good hours of sleep to a big moment of clarity. I said to myself, "This is just insane. I am going to a foreign country where I don't know anybody for eleven days because I want to get away from DD and the grands. Now what does this say?"
Hello, it says I'm an idiot. Love them all dearly, as all good moms/grandmas are supposed to. But this is not the place for me. In seven months I will be gone. I'm selling up, gonna take the money and run. I'm going home...will rent an apartment, make it cosy and nice inside, and live my life...not theirs...mine.
Elizabeth, I don't know about Florida. I'm in Maine. We see the opera, live, at the local theater in Ellsworth on Live from the Met in NYC. It's really great since we get close-ups which those in the live audience don't see. Also, during intermission we get interviews with a couple of the principals, as well as showing how the HD transmission is produced.
Today we saw a local theater production of Mary Poppins - really well done. There's plenty of culture in Maine.
Have fun in Ireland! Maybe I'll get there some day.
Well, duh. Marsh, I don't know why I was thinking Florida. Everybody I know who likes opera (I'm talking about New York people...who could conceivably get down to the Met)...tells me that those local theater broadcasts are the way to go. I've been told the same thing you said...you get to see things that you wouldn't see if you were down at Lincoln Center seeing it live. And it's a lot cheaper, too.
Elizabeth, So glad that you've made your decision. You deserve your freedom, and I do hope that perhaps someday before too long you will meet someone and be happy like Marsh and Marty and Vickie. You're very young yet, and have so much to offer. I think that Larry would approve. When are you off to Ireland?
Not sure about meeting anybody. I remember my brother Mike's sassy remark years ago when we were all trying to get him to come with us to a ceilidh. He said, "No thanks, if I want to see a bunch of drunk Irishmen, I can do that right here in the living room"
Ooh, we gave him such a smack. (Smart aleck.) But I'm not really looking for a relationship here or there...just maybe some socialization and good craic, as they say. I'm still debating looking up my cousins near Sandhurst and up in Manchester...don't think I'll have time on this trip...to get back and forth to England.
The guy who took me to dinner and a movie here in the Heartland is actually of Irish descent. Not a drinker though. (The Irish virus.) Very pleasant, but I'm not really picking up the vibe. He did give me a quick smooch goodnight though. (Like you'd kiss your old granny--nothing to get excited about.) But I thought that was a step forward for an Alzheimer caregiver widow. It made me kind of smile and shake my head...like, unbelievable. I could just almost see Larry giving me a knowing look and a grin--he always said I would re-marry. And I always said I wouldn't, because you can't get the best twice. Well, time will tell who's right.
Hi old walking buddy marsh, and congratulations on rediscovering romance! I've been offline traveling in the RV with my son for the past ten days and missing out on all the excitement.
About the re-partnering after losing our AD spouses, and the legal technicalities of marriage:
The first thing my attorney said when I went to update my will and advance directives after becoming a widow was..."people our age really don't need to get married again." ("Our" age, in this case, is 50s.)
Now, as one who is re-partnered in a committed relationship, I have mixed feelings about this. As it turns out, there is some $ that may swing through my purview by way of my mother, before I pass it along to my kids. As such, I was interested in sheltering it for them in the most effective way, particularly given that one of my 4 children is slightly on the autism spectrum and may end up needing the financial oversight of his sisters once I'm out of the picture. The best tax shelter turns out to be subject to my marital status not changing.
My guy is ok with that, as are our kids. (my mom's a little iffy about it.) But we are thoroughly declared to each other, forever-wise, we've exchanged rings, drawn up healthcare proxies to give each other medical access, and we are building a house and life together.
It's sometimes awkward to know how to introduce my life partner, but I usually just say "my partner, Allen." Boyfriend/girlfriend are terms that seem age-inappropriate. Neither do they adequately convey the permanence of our attachment, and that it's by a mere IRS-related technicality that we're not officially married. I would prefer to be married, but I would be impacting my children's financial future, forfeiting them some money they would inherit in their father's name, so I cannot make that choice in good conscience.
I'd like to coin a new word, that conveys our status without the tedious explanation. File this under "things about re-partnering later in life that never occurred to you until you got there."
Emily, My 2 cents worth. Things have changed so dramatically in the last 30-40 years, and more and more people are 'partnering' rather than getting married...probably many are as wise and you; you have responsibilities to your kids, and your partner understands that. So many people introduce their partner these days, that it is normal. I hope you will be happy, and I think your deceased spouse would be grateful to know that you made this decision to protect his and your kids, particularly the one who may well need it. All the best,
Emily, Terri and I have discussed this. For one thing she would lose the social security she is getting from her late husband, which is MUCH larger than what she would get from hers. We are meeting with a lawyer soon to discuss how to handle this. One friend of mine solved the problem by getting married in the church, but not getting a license or letting the government know. That way they were married in the eyes of the church which was important to them, but not in the eyes of the government so they didn't lose any benefits. Terri and I are considering this approach since the blessing of the church is important to both of us. One thing we have to do is be sure each of us has the right to visit the other in the hospital, etc. A lawyer can tell us how to do this. We will be getting rings soon.
Marsh, In Maryland there is an Advanced Directives document that you fill out, and have your signatures witnessed. In addition to specifying what your preferences are regarding end of life decisions, you write in the person (and also the deputy-persons, if #1 is unavailable) you have chosen to speak for you in a case where you cannot speak for yourself. The person is your Healthcare Agent, which gives him/her access in the hospital, etc.
We carry wallet cards with this information, and I also have copies of the full document which I've got on a flashdrive in my bag. Also on the flashdrive are our medical records, since we find ourselves out of town fairly often. Therefore, it's easy to access. I think one could also have it in a "cloud-based" format, if one is into the technology! I think I'll look at putting it on Google Drive.
In general though, people assume we're married, and I wouldn't anticipate anyone questioning my right to be there in a medical situation, but just in case, it's good to have documentation.
I have a friend who found someone after her husband died of younger onset dementia. They decided not to marry but live together (and had a church ceremony), partly because she would lose her health benefits as a widow of a veteran. Good decision, her husband died of heart failure a few years later.
My FIL has a girlfriend (they don't live together or see each other every day) and seem pretty committed. But each has their own money and adult children. If they married there would be the chance that when one died the children of the other would end up with the estate. So it is so much simpler not being getting married.
There are legal advantages to being married, issues that aren't necessarily solved by doing various legal papers, but I think these are more important for younger people, especially if there are dependent children involved,.
Encountered similar marriage issues. I continue to received my ;ate wife's full pension "for life or until such time as the employee's husband re-marries" and my girlfriend, widow of a one star general receives benefits that defy description.
BTW The last min cruise mentioned is my last post was just a dream like week. The "good life has been rebooted
Marsh, make a phone call to your Social Security office, because the rules are different for people over 65. If you're over 65 you don't have to have been married for 10 years to be eligible for spouse's benefits. They can explain lots of options to you. They told me to choose the amount that was higher. It's not real complicated and they are really there to help you get the most you're entitled to.
Glad you enjoyed the cruise, Marty. My sister and I are off on a 50 day cruise from Ft Lauderdale to the Mediterranean and back. I fly to Ft Lauderdale early Thursday, Oct 29th and the ship goes out on Friday. We get back on December 19th, just in time for Christmas. Ron and I had a very similar one booked in 2009 but had to cancel because it was becoming obvious that he couldn't travel. Any change in schedule had him all upset. So this is my time, I'm worth it.
Although remarriage will affect eligibility for many widows' benefits (military retiree, many pensions, etc.), it need not deprive one's children of an inheritance. If you want to remarry and disposition of your estate is the only concern, look into drafting a prenuptial agreement.
Myrtle, there is a special reason why remarriage would impact my children's inheritance. The reason is that the best tax shelter in my situation involved something called "Portability of Exclusion." Generally, when a parent dies, the children can exclude a set amount of the money coming to them from being subject to estate tax. The remainder would be fully taxable. By filing paperwork within 9 months of Jeff's death, I was able to preserve my children's right to exclude his amount as well as my amount, thus doubling the value of the shelter. The way the law is written and applied, they are eligible to use the exclusion of my "last surviving spouse." Which means that if Allen and I were married, they would forfeit their father's exclusion, but could use Allen's. But this is not good, as he needs to leave that exclusion for his daughter, and they are only usable once.
So, there's a double disincentive for me to wreck that for them--1)I'm afraid the girls will need it to take care of their brother, so that they aren't left supporting him with their own earnings, and 2)the shelter is based on their own father's right to bequeath money to them, and I would be electively denying them a bequest from their father. That is emotionally a no-go for me.
But I am appreciating all the sharing, and the sense that it is becoming normal for we who repartner later in life to fully commit without inviting the IRS into the equation.
So much to think about above...but I'll just hijack the thread to say that Dublin is a lot of fun. Who ever said this is not the "real" Ireland? I think it's great here. And who ever said to avoid Temple Bar because it's too touristy? I love Temple Bar. Hey, I'm a tourist, so...why not? I can just feel Larry smiling over my shoulder. He loved Ireland. Last night I was in the pub dancing a reel with the step dancers...I am starting to feel like myself again...not so much like Larry's wife or DD's Mom or the kids' grandma. There is so much to do here and so many people to talk with...and Ireland is one of the few places where they make tea properly and cook potatoes right.
I'll "see" everyone next week back on the forum. Hugs!
Marsh--so happy for you. Pris is right--I used to work for SS and if I remember correctly, your girlfriend's remarriage wouldn't affect her SS benefits from prior spouse. But check with SS.
Emily--I totally agree that we need to coin a new word. I'm in a similar position to you--the boyfriend/girlfriend sounds juvenile; partner is ok, but also can connote a business partner; don't love SO (significant other), the one I'm most comfortable with is "other half" but not crazy about that either! Oh well, after what we've been through, this should be our biggest problem!
It's better this way when life is more like a salad bar where you can pick the things you want and leave others with about the same amount of judgement as an actual salad bar.
The real truth is that I can do anything I want but only once I've gotten healthy enough mentally and emotionally to not have my experiences dominate how I see things and how I think. It was Emily that talked about self authorization years ago where I reacted strongly because I could see back then the truth of that. What I understood then wasn't the idea of my own empowerment but that I was miles away from such behaviour because of what my experiences did to me.
Like 50 shades of grey - my safeword was 'confidence'. I was bound by my life outlook until I could feel normal feelings such as confidence or optimism. These are words not common on the AS board which is as understandable as it is proof that serious hardships affect us deeply and it is how we were affected by dementia that matters afterwards because that is the reality of life as a human being.
I'm glad for Emily and Marsh and Vickie and Marty and everyone who finds good things again with other people. I am entitled to have that too and I'm quite confident that I can find a good person and that I have good things to offer. I'm lonely too which has to be kind of obvious after we lose our life partner and after such an isolating and long experience seeing them through that.
I choose to play in my own play and I feel good about that choice. I made it in 2014 although I've only really started living that these last few months where the need or desire to comb through the bad things of those years is less appealing and has less power left than the need and desire to find more fun and meaning in my life now.
I've been through everything forwards and backwards. There's nothing left to learn there. I love her and I'm sorry and it's still hard some days but much less so. That all happened and we saw it through and I don't drive through the rearview mirror. In just a few months I will be in my second year in one way but in just a few months I will be in my second year in quite another - which is the life I actually live and actually have.
I see that like becoming a new parent. Lots to learn and lot's of change but entirely worthwhile all the way around the block. I'm learning how to change into this new role which is not unlike living my own screenplay. It's a boring play in some ways because so far it's full of conversations and even arguments like "can't you have any fun Wolf?" and "that's everywhere Wolf, can't you see that?" and "what's really bugging you about this Wolf?" and so on and so on until I run out of things and then I go through getting tired of doing the same laps and finally I do something about it. I know I did something about it when it changes.
When we meet a new person it's such a singluar game changer that it's the other things that catch up with the dynamics of the real and immersive life now here. When we change without a singluar event then no singular thing stand outs and no single story comes out. We just feel better as we grow into and appreciate our life. That's the story of me. I feel good. I feel powerful. I feel like I can make either words or images dance. My life is going to be doing both. If that means I stay up all night working on it, then I do because I can.
I wake up and go to bed in peace. I have all kinds of things I'm still working on but that's always going to be true even when those are all 'normal' things. I have real optimism as well. My next year has little chance of being anything other than much better again as I move another year away from what all that did to me and to when there was an us.
You don't need another person in your life to feel good again. And if you find out you do then there are 8 billion out there split roughly 50/50 so...go to it. I want to feel good inside and money can't buy that for me. It's only good when I believe it and being from MIssouri doesn't mean I disparage everything. It means it has to pass tests.
Grief: "What was I saying?" Wolf: "Life is so worthwhile. Pull up a chair. Put your feet up."
While I can't always figure Wolf out, I think I am agreeing with what his post says above. Not so much about meeting a new person, but about feeling better as we grow into and appreciate our life. I am still on that journey to find new meaning and purpose without Larry, but at 14 months out, I am astonished at how much happiness and peace I feel as I look back at our life together and what richness it gave to my own life...and is still giving, even though he is gone. I sometimes just can't stop smiling when I think about him and what that marriage contributed to the person I am now. It's like all the bad old Alzheimer memories are fading, and all the good stuff remains to cheer me up and make me feel good about myself and what that marriage did for me as a person. And he's never far from me...I could feel him grinning over my shoulder during the whole 11 days in Ireland. For an Italian guy, he really, really liked Ireland.
So...Dublin. I'm one of the 24 million Americans of Irish descent, and while my family doesn't really fit the silly stereotypes (no green wigs on St. Patrick's Day...ha,ha), we do like to go over there occasionally and just hang around. I'm fond of saying that I have a thousand Irish relatives and none of them live in Ireland...everybody emigrated. Anyway, with that $50 ticket from the credit card air miles bonus, and with a yen to do the youth hostel thing and go on the cheap, I thought it was time to go to Dublin for the first time ever, and just be a tourist. I also wanted to get away from everyone and everything...be alone in an unfamiliar place...and contemplate the future. I guess I thought I was going to sit on a park bench and just meditate or something. Ha,ha...no way. First of all, just doing the tourist sites kept me busy and interested all day long. Eating lunch in yummy tea rooms and supper mostly with good "home" food in sociable pubs with music and dancing kept me feeling nurtured and happy. The revolving door of girls in my three-woman dorm in the hostel meant I had a constant flow of new people from around the world to talk to. I find the Irish to be pretty much as advertised...warm, welcoming, kind, helpful, hospitable. I'm not saying Ireland or Dublin is perfect...it's a modern, European country and it's not Irish Disneyland or some fairy world of shamrocks and shillelaghs. But it was just what I needed at this time in my life, and for the first time in a long time I felt totally like myself...like a human being...in a homelike place (loved going through JFK airport, too--I just love NY--even just the airport)...and not just trapped with caregiving and everybody else coming first to where I'm not even a person...just a caregiver of others.
So...meaning and purpose. Did I find it? Yes...and I could get lengthy here. But the short story is that I want to be free of all this caregiving, and live a pleasant, simple, pared-down life filled with music and creativity. I've spent years taking care of everybody else around me (typical wife, mother, grandmother, nurse), but there are things I want to try to do in this last quarter of my life that are important to me alone, and I'm going to do them. Starting immediately--and I'll keep you all updated.
Elizabeth - great that you could make this difficult decision - and most of us understand how difficult it can be. The family will survive, and you have a right to live your own life. For me you have been an inspiration. I'm much older than you (80), and just want peace of mind at this point. Since my DH passed it's been so difficult - first trying to adjust to knowing he's gone. Then the problems with the video and trying to get to the bottom of that have left me stressed. Must be caregiver's brain, because all during his illness I could manage everything; now I'm finding it hard to concentrate. I feel numb and lost. I'm trying, though, and reading your story makes me hope I can get past all of this, and find some peace of mind. There must be many more like me on the board who feel the same way. Thank you for all you've given to us.
P.S. Can I carry your suitcases; I need to get away too (ha, ha)